Hard Light Productions Forums

Modding, Mission Design, and Coding => FS2 Open Coding - The Source Code Project (SCP) => Topic started by: Bobboau on February 05, 2004, 09:31:26 am

Title: decal demo
Post by: Bobboau on February 05, 2004, 09:31:26 am
http://freespace.volitionwatch.com/blackwater/fs2_open_decal.zip

ok, this is very crashy, you will crash to desktop, there are major memory leaks, but it untill it crashes it should give you some idea about how good my new decal system will be once operational, I recomend a non combat test mission were you can just pound on something and look at the decals.
the only bugs I want to hear about at this point are if you experience and thing like textures on ships disapearing/going all smeared. this isn't for bug hunting, as it's just to demo that I do have a solution in the works.
Title: decal demo
Post by: J3Vr6 on February 05, 2004, 09:43:42 am
Can we see a screenshot, please?  Some of us can't run Freespace anymore :(
Title: decal demo
Post by: Fineus on February 05, 2004, 10:29:32 am
Very nice Bob! As you said I did get a crash to desktop and I did get memory leak issues - I also got the bug you can clearly see in the screenshots below - but the actual effect and decal seems to work very well (though, decals only work for the first few shots? After that no matter what I shot - no decal was created on the ship I hit). Anyway, examples...

Below you can see the impact effect on the ship - so far so good, no issues with textures:
Title: decal demo
Post by: Fineus on February 05, 2004, 10:31:37 am
However, after a bit of time this happened - notice the decals are fine - but.. well you can see the problem :)
Title: decal demo
Post by: Bobboau on February 05, 2004, 10:35:31 am
well it's suposed to be able to handle as many decals as a ship needs (ie as much as you'r computer's memory can store) but after a few ships get a bunch of them the decal list probly gets corupted, or you run out of memory, there is a leak somewere and I think it's in the rendering code, haveing something to do with the decals thinking they've been chaged when they havn't

hmm, maybe I should have a prealocated mass of decals that can be applyed to any ships, similarly to how the vertex buffer code works

that's another bug I was worried about, looks like your card might not suport texture clamping very well, what type of card do you have?
though, now that I think about it, that could be caused by corupted decals too...
Title: decal demo
Post by: Fineus on February 05, 2004, 10:46:24 am
I'm running an MSI GeForce4 4600 Ti...

Might it be possible to have the decals disappear from smaller ships at a faster rate than those on larger ones (that is - say - 1 to disappear every 30 seconds from fighters, 1 every 120 seconds from cruisers / corvettes and 1 every 240 seconds from anything larger)? That way the size may not get to great but you wouldn't have to worry about maximum numbers.
Title: decal demo
Post by: Bobboau on February 05, 2004, 10:54:54 am
most small ships arn't going to get that many decals on them before they are destroied, I'mm thinking about makeing a system of decal replacement so that the oldest decal will be deleted when ever a new one is made after the ship reaches a table defined max decal number, but the system is designed to be able to handle truely vast amounts of decals, like 1000 on a single ship, now weather I'll be able to manage that is another story, I tend to get coruption after about fifteen decals currently, but the rendering engine for it is defenantly capable of handleing that (1000 decals per ship)
Title: decal demo
Post by: J3Vr6 on February 05, 2004, 11:00:22 am
What am I supposed to notice in the screen shots?  The scorched black spots?
Title: decal demo
Post by: Bobboau on February 05, 2004, 11:00:54 am
yeah
Title: decal demo
Post by: J3Vr6 on February 05, 2004, 11:07:22 am
Coooool... What happens if you keep firing at the same spot or hit it with bombs or lots of missiles?  Does the decal change to something else, like a wannabe hole when hit with something big or multiple shots?  Or is that in the works?
Title: decal demo
Post by: KARMA on February 05, 2004, 11:33:00 am
bob, you already know what I'd like to see based on this :rolleyes:
Title: decal demo
Post by: Kazan on February 05, 2004, 11:35:04 am
hey bobboau - use a ring buffer for your decal indexies - that will make the "oldest dies" work automagically
Title: decal demo
Post by: Unknown Target on February 05, 2004, 12:18:33 pm
You should set a max-decal-limit, such as 1000 decals, and then they'll start to dissapear. Like in a shooter, you have a slider bar that sets how much you want to keep ;) (whether this should be per-ship or total scenery, you decide, but per-ship would be better)
Title: decal demo
Post by: karajorma on February 05, 2004, 12:48:45 pm
I think bobs idea of handling it via the table is a better idea since it allows you to vary the number depending on the ship.

What might work though is to have a table based number and a mutiplier set in the launcher so that people with low end machines can lower the number of decals without having to turn them off.
Title: decal demo
Post by: Goober5000 on February 05, 2004, 01:26:01 pm
Psst... Bobboau, you're violating the spirit of the code freeze. ;) Even if you don't commit this right now, you're supposed to be bug-squashing.
Title: decal demo
Post by: Raven2001 on February 05, 2004, 02:00:30 pm
aww please!!! Why don't you let one or two coders to innovate on the code so that we can be happy?? :D
Title: decal demo
Post by: Goober5000 on February 05, 2004, 02:05:42 pm
I don't think you'd be happy if we released a build full of bugs.  Remember 3.5?

Not to mention all these innovations are delaying the release of 3.6.
Title: decal demo
Post by: Unknown Target on February 05, 2004, 02:11:26 pm
Hey, Bob, if we made the decals neon green, would they be transparant?

:evil: :D


EDIT: Bugs! The decals don't show up. Where do I have to put them? I put the TIFFS in the maps and effects directory, and neither showed any decals when I shot a fenris.

System:

AMD 1.6 Ghz
512MB of RAM
On-board Geforce 2
Title: decal demo
Post by: Beowulf on February 05, 2004, 09:34:16 pm
*clap clap clap*

:yes: Keep up the good work. Problem shmoblem, you guys are great! :nod:
Title: decal demo
Post by: Rga_Noris on February 06, 2004, 12:32:21 am
As cool as this looks (because hey, I LOVED that feature before it got scratched), I'd have to agree that bug squashing needs some attention. I can't wait till the afterburner bug gets squashed... then i'll be a happy camper.
Title: decal demo
Post by: Turnsky on February 06, 2004, 12:46:01 am
now, show a beam slash effect... ;)
Title: decal demo
Post by: Bobboau on February 08, 2004, 11:22:34 pm
this morning I had a though about what was causeing the crashes and I was right, I also made a change to the generation code as I had a small error that was screwing things up and there are several other small things I found. this build is a better example of what it's going to be like, you should be able to get through most missions, but it still is open ended so it will just keep eating memory untill a ship blows up or you run out, (missions with a lot of fighters should be fine, but missions with capships you will probly get a crash sevral minutes into the mission, as well as a well scorched capship)
I'm not officaly suporting it yet,
but it just doesn't feel right haveing this build and not letting any one else play with it.

origonal link updated

I have also seen several bugs while testing this that I thought were fixed, most worring of wich is that bug that makes point bitmaps go white or flicker, and less worring (simply becase few people seem to use it) model transparencies (as in the ones used on the shockwave models) arn't getting set properly, as well as the no zbuffer model rendering flags not working, guess what I'm going to have to do now.:)
Title: decal demo
Post by: Bobboau on February 08, 2004, 11:39:19 pm
there are like five lurkers veiwing this thread right now, why don't you people sign up and post and stuff
Title: decal demo
Post by: karajorma on February 09, 2004, 03:02:23 am
Quote
Originally posted by Bobboau
there are like five lurkers veiwing this thread right now, why don't you people sign up and post and stuff


Most likely some of them are members. I occasionally browse the forum without signing on if I'm in a hurry because it means that I don't reset all the "go to first unread post" tags.
Title: decal demo
Post by: Setekh on February 09, 2004, 05:17:24 am
You want testers? Into the highlights with you. :)
Title: decal demo
Post by: Ransom on February 09, 2004, 06:22:25 am
Nice! While using this build I've had no problems at all. It hasn't crashed or displayed any screwey textures, but that might be because I haven't tested it on anything but the first mission yet.
Title: decal demo
Post by: Setekh on February 09, 2004, 06:49:57 am
Really? Does it work flawlessly? Could you please post some screenshots? :)
Title: decal demo
Post by: Unknown Target on February 09, 2004, 07:11:02 am
Mine works flawlessly as well (no crashes, etc), except it doesn't show damage decals! How can I fix that? :D

My system:

AMD 1.2 GHz
512MB of RAM
Integrated Geforce 2 chipset.
Title: decal demo
Post by: Setekh on February 09, 2004, 08:10:30 am
Quote
Originally posted by Unknown Target
except it doesn't show damage decals! How can I fix that? :D


:lol: Minor details... :D
Title: decal demo
Post by: Bobboau on February 09, 2004, 08:18:26 am
actualy this is just a demo, as I said I'm not officoly suporting this, I just wanted you all to be able to play with it. it's not realy redy for real testing and debuging as many major issues are still present
Title: decal demo
Post by: Setekh on February 09, 2004, 08:30:39 am
Lol, oh well. Will still be nice for people to be aware of it so that when you come back to it later people will be ready to play around with it more easily.
Title: decal demo
Post by: redmenace on February 09, 2004, 09:51:49 am
Quote
Originally posted by Bobboau
actualy this is just a demo, as I said I'm not officoly suporting this, I just wanted you all to be able to play with it. it's not realy redy for real testing and debuging as many major issues are still present

oh you mean like that whole limited amounts of memory thing. :lol:
Title: decal demo
Post by: Bobboau on February 09, 2004, 11:05:34 am
yes the 'takes your memory and doesn't give it back' thing is one of the more important issues, I'm not sure why it's not freeing it, but it should be, but that is an issue for after 3.6, it's working well enough that I've proven my point and working on it any more is a waist of valuable HTL debugging time, wich is something I've done quite enough of already.
Title: decal demo
Post by: Goober5000 on February 09, 2004, 11:07:42 am
Eh?

Not enough, according to RandomTiger. ;)
Title: decal demo
Post by: Bobboau on February 09, 2004, 12:14:14 pm
I meant I've done quite enough _waisting_ of valuable HTL debugging time

and the generation system seems to not work as well on smaller poly ships (ie fighters) than on capships, I know it won't show up at all on the Seraphis, and only moderately on a Myrmadon, but it works great on a Satis, and I've seen it working great on a Sobek, untill there were so many decals that I ran out of memory, that sort of screwed it up a little
Title: decal demo
Post by: Unknown Target on February 10, 2004, 01:13:50 pm
I tested it on a table-edited Fenris model, Mara, and a table-edited version of the high-poly herc mk I. Does anyone else's versions of these ships show it?
Title: decal demo
Post by: Bobboau on February 10, 2004, 04:53:44 pm
you are useing the suplied tables right?
just dump all the stuff in your root folder, it will override everything else
Title: decal demo
Post by: Ulala on February 11, 2004, 12:46:07 am
More screenies... :nervous: ;) :nervous:
Title: decal demo
Post by: Unknown Target on February 11, 2004, 01:14:12 pm
Bob---it won't touch any of my mod folders, right? (stupid question, I know, but I just want to make sure :D)

I'll try it again tonight :)
Title: decal demo
Post by: Ghostavo on February 11, 2004, 02:29:39 pm
seems to work fine with me... asside from the open's usual anti-aliasing problem with the game's interface and menu by putting a freaking line in between parts of the screen like when I'm with the mouse over a bloody accept icon... :mad: :hopping:

*calms down*

are you sure it's buggy? it ran fine with me...
(http://www.geocities.com/ghostavo2003/bite_marks.JPG)
Title: decal demo
Post by: Starks on February 11, 2004, 03:35:47 pm
OH SWEET JEBUS THAT FENRIS IS FUGLY!
Title: decal demo
Post by: Deepblue on February 11, 2004, 04:41:12 pm
:lol:
I really have to go home so I can see what the heck your talking about.
Title: decal demo
Post by: Taristin on February 11, 2004, 06:12:38 pm
Dude! High res maps! Immediately!
Title: decal demo
Post by: Taristin on February 11, 2004, 06:14:52 pm
And I can't wait for Lightspeed to have a go with this. :D
Title: decal demo
Post by: Bobboau on February 11, 2004, 09:41:11 pm
yes it's very buggy, hit ctrl alt del and look at your memory useage (2000/XP), very buggy, but good enough to play with a little
Title: decal demo
Post by: redmenace on February 11, 2004, 10:21:05 pm
Bobboau,
Are Scorch marks from Beam weapons possible? Like a long scorch mark where the beam hits. Also can we hand a a few different impact images and can each weapon have its own damage image?
Title: decal demo
Post by: Bobboau on February 11, 2004, 10:41:25 pm
no but I plan on implmenting it eventualy.

yeah, that's how it's set up right now
Title: decal demo
Post by: redmenace on February 11, 2004, 11:00:55 pm
Now can we, with bump mapping, simulate dents from impacts, *not GEO-MOD*
My understanding of bump mapping is that it simulates up and down levels on what I think is called the normal(I don't know what the hell I am talking about)
Title: decal demo
Post by: Bobboau on February 11, 2004, 11:08:01 pm
it's for per pixel lighting models, bump maps are maps of direction the surface is pointing at a given point (like how texture maps are the color of a surface at a given point)
we have neither a per pixel lighting model (yet) nor any way to activly modify it with this, and the effect would be only minimal.

and the sort version

no
Title: decal demo
Post by: Roy fokker on March 09, 2004, 07:37:28 pm
any iea when the lastest release for this is coming out??
Title: decal demo
Post by: Bobboau on March 09, 2004, 07:43:24 pm
after 3.6..

actualy the environment mapping test has a slightly better implementation
Title: decal demo
Post by: .::Tin Can::. on March 09, 2004, 08:37:29 pm
Just think how FLAWLESSLY this could work for showing how beat up a ship is. When you warp in and the guy is like "OMFG! We are badly damaged!" you see some lightning stuff and thats about it. But with THIS, you can show some serious damage and impacts on a ship, which could be much more atmospheric. So then, this latest release... it will have all the bugs fixed, right?
Title: decal demo
Post by: Bobboau on March 09, 2004, 08:43:17 pm
this isn't even getting put in untill after 3.6
Title: decal demo
Post by: Roy fokker on March 10, 2004, 01:53:20 pm
whenis 3.6 expect cause this is a kick ass feature
Title: decal demo
Post by: Bobboau on March 10, 2004, 07:41:59 pm
some time between now and never :doubt: ...
Title: decal demo
Post by: .::Tin Can::. on March 10, 2004, 07:47:22 pm
Oh no! You must finish it!
Title: decal demo
Post by: Setekh on March 11, 2004, 05:57:26 am
Well, code freeze. Once 3.6 is out we can put that out in the mainstream - that'll be a really important step, I think, and worth waiting on other stuff for it. :)
Title: decal demo
Post by: Roy fokker on March 11, 2004, 07:26:57 am
Quote
Originally posted by Bobboau
some time between now and never :doubt: ...


that long huh ;) :p
Title: decal demo
Post by: .::Tin Can::. on March 11, 2004, 10:29:44 am
Remember, it could be anytime between then, so, it might be a WEEK, a MONTH, or even a YEAR. We dont know... all I know is I would like for the version to come out soon...