Hard Light Productions Forums
Modding, Mission Design, and Coding => The Modding Workshop => Topic started by: Grey Wolf on February 12, 2004, 09:01:58 pm
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Anyone remember the patcom I modeled for FS2? The one based on the Tachyon from IW2? If you don't, here's what it looked like:
(http://www.3dap.com/hlp/hosted/gtdwolf/pics/patcom3.jpg)
The one major complaint I got about it were the poor quality of the textures, considering they're just modified tiles from a Deimos. This is because I lack any real ability to make textures. But recently, I discovered how simple it was to extract textures from IW2, and decided to attempt to place them on my patcom:
(http://www.3dap.com/hlp/hosted/gtdwolf/pics/patcom4.jpg)
What do you think? Should I continue trying to map it using the IW2 maps, or leave it with the old maps?
EDIT: Appears lvlshot doesn't work anymore, switched to img tags.
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well it does look better, but you still should try to make your own
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I tried. Believe me. They looked really ugly. Actually, I think I may have a pic of it......
(http://www.3dap.com/hlp/hosted/gtdwolf/pics/patcom.jpg)
Why you shouldn't do inept textures in paint.
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i could swear the textures in IW2 were way more hi-res than what you have posted
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Those textures look plenty high res to me.
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ouch. My eyes bleed. You should give that model another rework. It hurts those of us who still play Iwar2.
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I probably should. It was designed for pre-HT&L FS2, so it's under 700 polys triangulated. I'll take another shot at it. Hmm....
About the textures, they're only 256 by 256 once you get them from FTU to BMP. There are quite a few though....
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...need a better image converter then...
Stupid game only files. :doubt:
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Well, to get the image from FTU to BMP, you have to rename the FTUs to RAW, and then you have to set the dimensions of the map to even view it.
BTW, anyone got a nice set of shots I can try to remodel it from, or do I have to beat the game up to their again before I can start rebuilding the model? I just reinstalled IW2, and I still have the tug.
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Originally posted by Grey Wolf 2009
Well, to get the image from FTU to BMP, you have to rename the FTUs to RAW, and then you have to set the dimensions of the map to even view it.
BTW, anyone got a nice set of shots I can try to remodel it from, or do I have to beat the game up to their again before I can start rebuilding the model? I just reinstalled IW2, and I still have the tug.
I have IW1, I can take a few screenshots of the original Patcom in action if you prefer.
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I was aiming for the Tachyon-class, but I'll take a shot at the original if you post the screenshots.
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Well, for my own part, I think it looks great. (In fact, I was going to highlight it, but Mik's comment held me back... :p) Maybe because I haven't touched IW2 recently... ;)
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Oh sure. Blame it on me, Steak. ;)
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Originally posted by Grey Wolf 2009
I was aiming for the Tachyon-class, but I'll take a shot at the original if you post the screenshots.
Ok, will get on it tonight.
*goes to clear off space on his 6GB hard drive for I-war*
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except the tachyon is from IW2 only. i hope there is something to convert PSO files to something usuable
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Not that I can find. There are the LWS files, but I don't think they're actually the ship.
But anyway, my model is actually pretty close to the original after a closer look. Just need to raise the center section and redo the cockpit. Here's a pic off the official site:
(http://www.independencewar.com/images/screenshots/iwar2/ingame/large/advance_patcom_and_planet.jpg)
Also, the reason the guns look different is because I was going for the PBCs and Quadpack Launcher configuration, as opposed to the Turret Fighters.
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Hmm... Question for all of you. Which command section should I use? The one used by Cal in the game, or the standard? This site shows both: http://www.i-war2.com/ships_db.htm
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Standard command section. The experimental one Cal has is one of a kind.
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DBL POST
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*has never been able to play I-War 2.. * :(
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You poor bastard. You're missing out on the greatest space combat engine in existence. :D
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*cough* ....besides Freespace..... *cough*
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Originally posted by mikhael
You poor bastard. You're missing out on the greatest space combat engine in existence. :D
Ditto. Shame it's so painful to mod.
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Originally posted by mikhael
You poor bastard. You're missing out on the greatest space combat engine in existence. :D
i know, but i AM working on rectifying that situation right now ;)
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Originally posted by mikhael
Oh sure. Blame it on me, Steak. ;)
But I already did... oh, right. ;)
Anyway, give us a pretty little render when you're done adjusting her, and that ought to be highlight-worthy. :yes:
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We'll, I'm waiting for renders from you Steak, actually. Been lazy on that side, lately, heh? ;)
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it's an artist's right to be a lazy ass! :p
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Originally posted by Turnsky
it's an artist's right to be a lazy ass! :P
tell me about it :p
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Originally posted by Nico
We'll, I'm waiting for renders from you Steak, actually. Been lazy on that side, lately, heh? ;)
Yeah, have. Hey, uni's just about to start, y'know! ;) But seriously, I'm just playing around with the OTT models a little. I remember what I had to do now, I had to get myself a copy of the OTT storyline, to fit renders into... I think I have it lying around here, actually. :D
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I'm not going to be able to do much until next week, since I'm away from my computer this week. Shouldn't take long after that though.
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Originally posted by Knight Templar
*cough* ....besides Freespace..... *cough*
Best space combat engine, bar non. Freespace is a great game but overshadowed by several others on the combat end of things. Tachyon comes to mind, as does Starlancer. Freespace comes in about fourth.
Originally posted by Nico
Ditto. Shame it's so painful to mod.
Missions are painful to mod. Ships are dead easy.
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... when you're a LW user. But ships w/o missions, that's pretty useless anyway, imo.
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The Buda5 team have a skirmish generator as part of their most recent pack.
For what its worth, I agree with you. I should, since I have so much bloody free-time, learn some POG and throw together a cheesy campaign just to shut you up.
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That would definitively shut me up, since I'd reinstall the game and not post here until I've beaten it :p
But only if it's not cheesy.
Anyway, if they can code missions, I'm pretty sure that means they can code a mission builder. What are they waiting for? :p
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unfortunately, being able to code missions doesn't mean you can just throw together Fred4Iwar2. ;) It'd be nice if they could though.
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well i had some lame ideas for my idea of what could happen after the end of IW2. don't know if it'll be any fun.
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If anything, I'd like a random mission generator ala Freelancer. It's poor, it's not the most exciting thing, but it's better than the endless pirating...
I have so many ideas for nice stand alone missions... :sigh:
edit: HARGH!!!! I didn't keep my savegame!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!
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Originally posted by mikhael
Best space combat engine, bar non. Freespace is a great game but overshadowed by several others on the combat end of things. Tachyon comes to mind, as does Starlancer. Freespace comes in about fourth.
never played at iwar, but about combat I don't see much differences between fs2 and tachyon or starlancer. They all are sons of the same father (wing commander), each with his weak and strong points and a similar gameplay.
Tachyon was interesting, with his "inertial" button, and I liked the weapon management (weapons that ARE different in what they do, and not different just because their graphic aspect), but a sucking AI, sucking and useless capital ships, and the lack of strategy variety make it very poor about the combat action. Oh, you DO many many different things, but those differences are related to the plot of the game (save the sistin chapel, dock with certain bases, etc), they aren't different tactic situations. It was just too arcade. I consider it many times worse than FS2 about combat, still it was a funny game
Starlancer was more interesting instead, I liked it a lot, and it was pretty similar to FS2 but improoved in some points. It had a "standard" ship management, AI not that bad, and missions well designed in the strategic side. It had some flaws, nonetheless, mainly a low variety of (well done) strategic situations (intercept bombers/torpedoes, make torpedoes runs, supremacy, destroy specific targets) which make the missions sometimes too linear about combat tactics, and ships were sometimes unbalanced.
I name two other games instead
Allegiance, which I discovered these days. It has a semi-realistic inertial physic, which make the dogfight interesting (and the clouds of proximity mines that you can release are incredibly funny in dogfights...example: I was winning a duel, when the opponent run away through a space tunnel, I followed him but run into his mines at the end of the tunnel:/),
you can choose between ships that are completely different about stats, loadouts and therefore role, giving the greatest variety of strategic roles you can play that I've never seen.
And being multiplayer team based, the strategy is monstrousily important, obviously.
Xvt:BOP
I know it's old, but I still have to find a better mission based combat spacesim than Balance of Power. The AI is stupid, designed to perform very simple actions, but is extremely efficent in the few things it does.
It is the hardest space sim I've ever played, and you must find the right strategy to win. I remember I lost many missions althought I made dozens and dozens of kills, only because I followed a wrong strategy, when I won the same missions making few kills but playing with the right tactics.
In the missions you usually had many different strategic situations, and you had to modify your tactics continuosly to face the different situations. It was really incredible if you like those kind of things, althought sometimes the difficulty was just insane.
Also, I really loved the dogfights in those old SW games, where more than quantity, it is important the quality because ships fire less and are much weaker.
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I have to disagree with you totally about Tachyon. With the combat, Tachyon is superior to Freespace in every way. Without the combat, it still superior, but a little more boring. I found that the combat AI in Tachyon was generally smarter than Freespace: Wingmen weren't utterly ineffective. Enemy AI didn't try to fly through hulls or stations constantly. Turrets don't attempt to fire through the structures they're attached to. The enemy AI DOES use debris, asteroids and structures for cover, and very effectively.
Iwar2 is a must play. If you liked the slide button in Tachyon, Iwar2 is absolutely perfect. There's so much more you can do, piloting wise in Iwar2 than you can in any other game (except perhaps Iwar1). All you have to do is have the guts to turn off flight assist. :D
As much as I liked the Xwing and Tie fighter games, they just got old, quick. Not because of the combat, but because of the story. And once you removed the story, the combat was no longer compelling enough to keep playing.
Allegiance I would be willing to try except for the whole multiplayer thing. I don't play multiplayer games except on a LAN. I don't game over the internet.
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the only reason for you didn't see inTachyon AI fighters bumping on the surface of asteroids, is because (if I remember correctly) the AI was able to completely fly through em. I remember (and I remember that because it surprised me) in the mission of the sistin chapel I saw one of the worst example of AI in a space sim ever.
And this doesn't change the fact that tactically speaking tachyon was boring compared to fs2, starlancer or any other similar space sim.
That's just my opinion obviously, and it depend by what you look for in a game. Personally I find extremely important the strategy and the needs to develop different real time tactics to face different complex situations.
Personally I consider XvT:BoP still the best about this, talking about single player missions.
And the funny thing is that XvT:BoP is probably the only campaign for an SW game where the story is just non-existent, to say the less. It's value was in the way the missions were designed.
And about Allegiance, you really should try it, even on internet. I play from Italy and my conn suck, but nonetheless I can't perceive lagg, even on servers with 58 players at the same time.
On my side, I'll look to find and try Iwar-2 asap:)
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I think it'd be awesome if you could hide behind things, and dissapear from radar. THAT would change the gameplay in any space game completely.
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one of the things that amazed me in Allegiance is the radar signature
each ship has a signature value, which will increase if you mount things (shields, missles..).
There are stealth fighters with a very low signature at the cost of a very light armor, you also put missles and shields in the cargo to reduce it, and mount stuff only at the last minute. you can also use cloaking devices, which reduce the signature.
Depending by the loadout they can fit various roles, but usually they are effective to infiltrate enemy systems and destroy their miners/constructors, or you can use them in combat to make sneak attacks, for example to destroy bigger ships, like gunships, which are well defended by player controlled turretts, without being tracked.
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Originally posted by KARMA
And this doesn't change the fact that tactically speaking tachyon was boring compared to fs2, starlancer or any other similar space sim.
Funny, the only tactic I could find in FS2 was to switch from full guns to maxims only when I was attacking a capship from long range, to save some power :p
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Correction: The physics model, ships, weapons, and combat in I-War 2 were beautiful. The singleplayer campaign was like they took baby Jesus and skull-****ed him. Get I-War (both of them, certainly), but only play multiplayer. You will hate the game so much less that way.
I still don't get how they could have gone from the plot and mission design in the original, which was beautiful, the plot in particular easily in the top ten of violence-based games, to EOC's puzzle-gaming and endless mind-numbing grocery shopping.
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Originally posted by Stryke 9
I still don't get how they could have gone from the plot and mission design in the original, which was beautiful, the plot in particular easily in the top ten of violence-based games, to EOC's puzzle-gaming and endless mind-numbing grocery shopping.
When I first heard of I-War I was hugely impressed and wanted it desperately. I'm probably the world biggest fan of Warhead (Glyn Williams's earlier space combat game). However I didn't have a PC at the time and by the time I did I-War II was out so I bought that instead.
Basically the single player missions bored me so much that I never bothered trying the original. Warhead suffered a little because it could sometimes take you a while to dock with your base but that's nothing compared to the mind numbing tedium involved in just getting to the site of the next mission in EoC. I once timed it and found that I'd spent 9 minutes just travelling between two systems (I didn't even encounter any enemy ships!) to get to the site where the mission was set.
Single player wasn't too bad if you just decided to go out and cause as much trouble as possible but some of the missions were just an excercise in trying to annoy the player.
I might have to try the original as it sounded a lot more fun that EoC.
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Originally posted by karajorma
When I first heard of I-War I was hugely impressed and wanted it desperately. I'm probably the world biggest fan of Warhead (Glyn Williams's earlier space combat game). However I didn't have a PC at the time and by the time I did I-War II was out so I bought that instead.
Basically the single player missions bored me so much that I never bothered trying the original. Warhead suffered a little because it could sometimes take you a while to dock with your base but that's nothing compared to the mind numbing tedium involved in just getting to the site of the next mission in EoC. I once timed it and found that I'd spent 9 minutes just travelling between two systems (I didn't even encounter any enemy ships!) to get to the site where the mission was set.
Single player wasn't too bad if you just decided to go out and cause as much trouble as possible but some of the missions were just an excercise in trying to annoy the player.
I might have to try the original as it sounded a lot more fun that EoC.
I can promise you this. The Original I-war not only had a better story, but it played better as well. (the ending was one of the best I've seen in a while)
Only problem is you cant remap the keys........
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Originally posted by Nico
Funny, the only tactic I could find in FS2 was to switch from full guns to maxims only when I was attacking a capship from long range, to save some power :p
that's unfair.
I don't say it is the most tactic space sim ever sold (its the opposite), but nonetheless there are many missions that aren't just a "get in position and slaughter everything at sight".
There's a mission where you have to attack the shivan destroyer in the nebula for example, or the first mission in the nebula defending the leviathan, a mission where you defend the hecate (IIRC) from bombers, and few others.
Obviously it depends by the difficulty level you play at, but in those missions you have to keep track of the enemy forces, choose your targets time by time, don't stick to a single ship just to make one more kill, use the wingmens at best (for what they can do: mostly fake targets:p).
I don't say they are a wonderful example of what I think a tactic mission should be, but still you have to use some strategies if you want to win. Obviously if you are lucky you can win even if you just play like if you are in a deathmatch, but it usually means to redo some missions many times.
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Actually, I disagree. I can't remember a single mission in Freespace 1 or 2 that didn't devolve into a 'kill every red dot on the hud'. In Tachyon, you had other things to do. Starlancer, Wing Commander, Xwing, etc, are all the same in that regard.
In Tachyon, I never saw an AI ship fly through an obstacle. I always observed them flying around, or skimming the surface pretty effectively.
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Originally posted by mikhael
Actually, I disagree. I can't remember a single mission in Freespace 1 or 2 that didn't devolve into a 'kill every red dot on the hud'. In Tachyon, you had other things to do. Starlancer, Wing Commander, Xwing, etc, are all the same in that regard.
In Tachyon, I never saw an AI ship fly through an obstacle. I always observed them flying around, or skimming the surface pretty effectively.
admit it, you only liked it 'cause it had bruce campbell in it!;)
seriously tho, i liked tachyon..
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Ah...the I-War 1 demo...way back when...
*gets all nostalgic*
It was truly awesome to go blasting past those sentry-turret things, and then turn off the ez-flight mode, and circle the enemy ships until I killed them :D
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anyone know where i can get iw1
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I've got it sitting right here. I can't make it run in Win2k, with or without DirectDraw enabled. :( I need a voodoo card.
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openglide, i think that's what it's called...
you can run glide apps via openGL with that..
EDIT: here, Linky: http://openglide.sourceforge.net
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I was of the understanding that things like OpenGLide and the VoodooWrapper didn't work with Iwar1.
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Originally posted by mikhael
I was of the understanding that things like OpenGLide and the VoodooWrapper didn't work with Iwar1.
well, i'm gonna give it a go soon, i'll report back if/when it works..
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http://evoodoo.emulation64.com/us/home.html
here's a good one, a little buggy in playing movies, and requires the right amount of option to be switched on for it to work right....
and the results are pretty damn good..:nod:
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Phreak: Well, you can make me an offer, for one. ;)
Got Deluxe a while ago, so I don't really need the original CD set anymore. Can let it go for, oh, $20, maybe. I'm sure it's occupying a few bargain bins around, too.
Turnsky: Yay! Never thought I'd be able to make I-War pretty again.
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Originally posted by KARMA
that's unfair.
I don't say it is the most tactic space sim ever sold (its the opposite), but nonetheless there are many missions that aren't just a "get in position and slaughter everything at sight".
There's a mission where you have to attack the shivan destroyer in the nebula for example, or the first mission in the nebula defending the leviathan, a mission where you defend the hecate (IIRC) from bombers, and few others.
Obviously it depends by the difficulty level you play at, but in those missions you have to keep track of the enemy forces, choose your targets time by time, don't stick to a single ship just to make one more kill, use the wingmens at best (for what they can do: mostly fake targets:p).
I don't say they are a wonderful example of what I think a tactic mission should be, but still you have to use some strategies if you want to win. Obviously if you are lucky you can win even if you just play like if you are in a deathmatch, but it usually means to redo some missions many times.
That's bull. I completed all the missions by just killing all the enemies ( unless being ordered otherwise, in the stealth missions for exemple, of course ). And, like it or not, that's always the most efficient way of completing any mission. Yeah, there's that other "tactic" I forgot: kill the bombers first if you have to defend capships :rolleyes:. FS2 was great, fun and all, but it was a shoot, and nothing else. Using "FS1/2" and "tactics" in the same sentence is a joke.
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I agree with a lot of the comments made here about I-War 1 and 2.
2 is a beautiful game, the best looking spacesim ever. But when it comes to the singleplayer campaign 2 is terrible compared to the original. Personally I also feel that it became too "arcadey" compared to the first with all of the weapons being forward facing. I must have been the one person who actually took advantage of the Dreadnaught's capability to engage more than one target at once by sliding, etc. into position.
I-War 1 had an excellent plot, fun missions, the way the operations were put together made it feel like a war. Defiance was also well put together. I-War 2 to me pales in comparison. I-War 2 though does refine a lot of things that made the first game great (such as the new-improved turret fighters) as well as the variety of weapons. It's also a better game in the free-flight exploration/play mode then Freelancer is, IMHO.
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I never played Iwar1, would like to, but I heard the controls where really complicated, and I really don't feel like going into another "panel simulation" game.
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Oooh, you don't wanna try it then. I-War is complexity incarnate.
Ace: yeah, but the thing that really gets up my ass about EOC is that absolutely none of the suckage was necessary. NOTHING that went wrong with the game had anything to do with the coding done for it. Everything from the original game was there plus some, they designed the bloody thing beautifully... and then the campaign was so goddamned retarded that they completely threw all the virtues of the game design and engine out the window. If there was some flaw in the design of the game itself I wouldn't be so pissed about the damn thing.
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But the aliens in the end were fun. not super dangerous or anything, just wasting the plans of everybody, player included :p
Yeah, anyway, I agree the plot was lame. From the begining, it bothered me, like call turning from a kid to a man, while the local badass seemingly didn't age. That alone was ****ed. Then the rest was... bof.
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Originally posted by Nico
From the begining, it bothered me, like call turning from a kid to a man, while the local badass seemingly didn't age. That alone was ****ed. Then the rest was... bof.
It's set god knows how many years in the future and you're complaining because the super rich billionaire didn't age?
I can think of 5 ways off of the top of my head!
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Still that's not convincing.
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Yeah, at the very least they could have mentioned his spending most of his time in a nanite-gel bath to retain his dashing looks :p
Overall though, for a villain I don't think he was a strong one. President King in I-War 1 was much more evil because he had serious reasons to believe he was doing the right thing.
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maas looks to be in his 30's-40's.. so he'd be at least 18-20's when Cal was a youngin'...
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Originally posted by Nico
That's bull. I completed all the missions by just killing all the enemies ( unless being ordered otherwise, in the stealth missions for exemple, of course ). And, like it or not, that's always the most efficient way of completing any mission. Yeah, there's that other "tactic" I forgot: kill the bombers first if you have to defend capships :rolleyes:. FS2 was great, fun and all, but it was a shoot, and nothing else. Using "FS1/2" and "tactics" in the same sentence is a joke.
well then maybe it's just me sucking in piloting, but I had hard problems winning some (few) missions at hard level using as only strategy "fire at all the red dots on the radar", and I doubt someone can. Which doesn't mean its missions are a fulgid example of a tactic space sim.
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I've gotta get back into IW. Pity the complexity incarnate business about IW1 is what originally turned me off it.
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Well, it doesn't really have to be all that complicated, is the thing. Not a whole lot more than FS, at least. Just stay at the Command console and let automation do its thing. You'll lose a lot of the functionality of the Dreadnought (like the rear gun and an intelligent repair scheme... incidentially, anybody else think that the rate at which those ships get fixed up is ****in' insane? I don't care if you've got a few dozen engineering guys, I don't care if they're really really good...), but things'll mostly handle themselves and you can just point and shoot. Doesn't apply to all missions, but most of the campaign that's true.
That's one of the things I really appreciated about I-War. Yeah, there's a lot of stuff added on there, but it's all really frickin' handy stuff once you get used to it, and then you really start missing it in other games...
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the physics are awesome in I-War..
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Originally posted by Stryke 9
Oooh, you don't wanna try it then. I-War is complexity incarnate.
Ace: yeah, but the thing that really gets up my ass about EOC is that absolutely none of the suckage was necessary. NOTHING that went wrong with the game had anything to do with the coding done for it. Everything from the original game was there plus some, they designed the bloody thing beautifully... and then the campaign was so goddamned retarded that they completely threw all the virtues of the game design and engine out the window. If there was some flaw in the design of the game itself I wouldn't be so pissed about the damn thing.
I would disagree: some of the flaws are hard coded in due to demands by Infogrammes. All of that is on the modding side though, and not in the campaign. I'm playing through the game again for the first time in over a year (now that I have my Cougar). I didn't see the campaign flaws before, but I do now. The story IS weak and the missions have a lot of screw bits.
Originally posted by KARMA
well then maybe it's just me sucking in piloting, but I had hard problems winning some (few) missions at hard level using as only strategy "fire at all the red dots on the radar", and I doubt someone can. Which doesn't mean its missions are a fulgid example of a tactic space sim.
That's precisely how I completed Freespace1 and Freespace2. Dodge beams, dogfight like a son-of-a-***** and leave when Command says you can. That's all it takes.
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Well, the story for EOC isn't much worse than a lot of the CRPGs out there. Stupid Fed Ex quests.....
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Yeah, except that when you look at a ****ty half-heartedly constructed RPG you generally don't see the game it could have been.
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I'm with Stryke. The missions have some... er... fragile scripting. :/