Hard Light Productions Forums

Modding, Mission Design, and Coding => FS2 Open Coding - The Source Code Project (SCP) => Topic started by: Raven2001 on February 13, 2004, 04:45:14 pm

Title: Bloom effect
Post by: Raven2001 on February 13, 2004, 04:45:14 pm
Has any of you coders seen the Bloom effect in Deus Ex - Invisible wars??? It makes a game look nice! I guess that's the kind of effect Bungee is using in Halo 2 right??

How feasable is it to code it in FS2?? The game would look far better me says :)
Title: Bloom effect
Post by: phreak on February 13, 2004, 04:50:16 pm
no i havent seen it
Title: Bloom effect
Post by: Sticks on February 13, 2004, 04:50:38 pm
Do you mean like this:

Overexposure Thread (http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php/topic,17795.0.html)
Title: Bloom effect
Post by: phreak on February 13, 2004, 04:51:48 pm
well it would be better if that thread wasn't in the SCP internal
Title: Bloom effect
Post by: aldo_14 on February 13, 2004, 04:56:10 pm
I think 'bloom' is a kind of motion blur, not sure.
Title: Bloom effect
Post by: Sticks on February 13, 2004, 04:56:56 pm
lol :lol:

(http://www.muranowak.com/realglow1.jpg)

I'd forgotten we moved that.
Title: Bloom effect
Post by: Raven2001 on February 13, 2004, 05:04:05 pm
Yeah, I guess it is something like that, but a bit better... makes everything look lik a full motion video, more real, and smoother right??? Guess it is really feaseble after all..

What about another kind of lightning (not per-vertex... something better) and bump-maps?? how feaseble are they??
Title: Bloom effect
Post by: Sticks on February 13, 2004, 05:10:07 pm
Per-pixel lighting isn't going to happen unless we move to DX9, and I don't see that happening all that soon. While it is possible to do a decent lighting model in PS1.4 (the max pixel shader in DX8), it would be a rather large pain as well as a performance decrease. Bumpmaps and the 'Bloom' effect (HDR Flare Simulation) will definately happen for 3.6
Title: Bloom effect
Post by: FreeTerran on February 13, 2004, 05:16:23 pm
w00t thats f*cking awesome :D
Title: Bloom effect
Post by: RandomTiger on February 13, 2004, 06:00:05 pm
Whats going on in that screenshot?
Is that in the code?
Title: Bloom effect
Post by: Sticks on February 13, 2004, 06:17:16 pm
It was a dev build I made a little while after I first came on. It is not currently in the code.
Title: Bloom effect
Post by: Taristin on February 13, 2004, 06:21:23 pm
Quote
Bumpmaps and the 'Bloom' effect (HDR Flare Simulation) will definately happen for 3.6

...so am I reading this right? There will be overexpoure in 3.6?
Title: Bloom effect
Post by: RandomTiger on February 13, 2004, 06:24:24 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Sticks
It was a dev build I made a little while after I first came on. It is not currently in the code.


It look nice, how is it done?
Title: Bloom effect
Post by: Lightspeed on February 13, 2004, 07:01:45 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Raa Tor'h

...so am I reading this right? There will be overexpoure in 3.6?


I think he meant after 3.6.
Title: Bloom effect
Post by: RandomTiger on February 13, 2004, 07:06:04 pm
I think after 3.6 we are going to see some really interesting stuff.
Title: Bloom effect
Post by: aldo_14 on February 13, 2004, 07:12:13 pm
Quote
Originally posted by RandomTiger


It look nice, how is it done?


The overburn / lens glowy thing?



EDIT:  Blix.  Can;t find the original post (which explained it better), I think the gist is / was that the frame is buffered, descaled (i.e. blurred), has the opacity lowered, is rescaled and then shoved on top of the frame image (I guess the top of the buffer).  At least, in the original implementation.....
Title: Bloom effect
Post by: Carl on February 13, 2004, 07:41:46 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Sticks
(HDR Flare Simulation) will definately happen for 3.6


nope. no new features in 3.6. just bug squashes.
Title: Bloom effect
Post by: HellToupee on February 13, 2004, 08:25:02 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Sticks
Per-pixel lighting isn't going to happen unless we move to DX9, and I don't see that happening all that soon. While it is possible to do a decent lighting model in PS1.4 (the max pixel shader in DX8), it would be a rather large pain as well as a performance decrease. Bumpmaps and the 'Bloom' effect (HDR Flare Simulation) will definately happen for 3.6


what about open gl, they implemented that stuff in quake 1 i belive, project called tenebrae.
Title: Re: Bloom effect
Post by: CP5670 on February 13, 2004, 09:04:53 pm
Quote
Has any of you coders seen the Bloom effect in Deus Ex - Invisible wars??? It makes a game look nice!


I thought that actually made things look somewhat worse, but it was very realistic (objects far away look blurry and the blur decreases as you get closer).
Title: Bloom effect
Post by: Taristin on February 13, 2004, 09:10:57 pm
It's depth of field?
Title: Bloom effect
Post by: Sticks on February 14, 2004, 03:04:40 am
Sorry.

I meant to say "post 3.6".  :nervous:

aldo is correct on the implementation, although that will be tweaked a bit from the original version.
Title: Bloom effect
Post by: Amon_Re on February 14, 2004, 07:57:24 am
Quote
Originally posted by Sticks
lol :lol:

(http://www.muranowak.com/realglow1.jpg)

I'd forgotten we moved that.


OMG! That's fcking beautifull! :eek2:

Cheers
Title: Bloom effect
Post by: Flipside on February 14, 2004, 11:55:47 am
It would be great to add this to the SCP after 3.6, were you still planning on going for a low-drain version and a pixel-shader version?
Title: Bloom effect
Post by: Rictor on February 14, 2004, 12:59:36 pm
I don't mean to nag, but whats the approximate release date for 3.6? I mean very approximate, like within 3 or 4 months.

And yeah, the bloom or overexpose effect looks awesome. Prince of Persia had it, and so did Beyond Good and Evil. Very swanky stuff.


Regarding per pixel lighting, as someone said Tenebrae has it and thats wroking off the Quake 1 engine. Some of the newer screenshots look totally amazing, Doom 3 quality. I think they're moving the project to the Quake 3 engine now, and it going to be a standalone for Tenebrae 2.0. If we could get that in, it would make as much difference as did the shinemaps (read: tons), perhaps more.
Title: Bloom effect
Post by: Bobboau on February 14, 2004, 01:20:22 pm
1.5 months ago
Title: Bloom effect
Post by: Carl on February 14, 2004, 01:31:30 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Rictor
I don't mean to nag, but whats the approximate release date for 3.6? I mean very approximate, like within 3 or 4 months.


christmas 2003.
Title: Bloom effect
Post by: HellToupee on February 14, 2004, 01:32:44 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Rictor
I don't mean to nag, but whats the approximate release date for 3.6? I mean very approximate, like within 3 or 4 months.

And yeah, the bloom or overexpose effect looks awesome. Prince of Persia had it, and so did Beyond Good and Evil. Very swanky stuff.


Regarding per pixel lighting, as someone said Tenebrae has it and thats wroking off the Quake 1 engine. Some of the newer screenshots look totally amazing, Doom 3 quality. I think they're moving the project to the Quake 3 engine now, and it going to be a standalone for Tenebrae 2.0. If we could get that in, it would make as much difference as did the shinemaps (read: tons), perhaps more.


nar they still use the quake 1, tenebrae 2 uses quake 3 bsps its not compatable with the q3 orginal stuff tho. Its www.tenebrae2.com. It dose look pretty good, especially with some levels made with tenebrae in mind and high res textures.
Title: Bloom effect
Post by: redmenace on February 14, 2004, 02:33:55 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Rictor
I don't mean to nag, but whats the approximate release date for 3.6? I mean very approximate, like within 3 or 4 months.

to quote wraith from ST:Armada-Babylon 5
"when its done" :D
Title: Bloom effect
Post by: Sticks on February 14, 2004, 03:11:46 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Rictor
Regarding per pixel lighting, as someone said Tenebrae has it and thats wroking off the Quake 1 engine. Some of the newer screenshots look totally amazing, Doom 3 quality. I think they're moving the project to the Quake 3 engine now, and it going to be a standalone for Tenebrae 2.0. If we could get that in, it would make as much difference as did the shinemaps (read: tons), perhaps more.


Per-pixel lighting is not dependent on the architecture of the game engine. It is dependent on the architecture of the graphics API (DirectX, OpenGL). To utilize (decent) per-pixel lighting in FSOpen, the DX API would need to be converted to use DirectX 9. In OpenGL, it's slightly easier, as only the shader fragment extensions need to be implemented, AFAIK.

The other side of this story is the simple fact that most users' graphics cards do not support pixel shaders greater than 1.4 right now.
Title: Bloom effect
Post by: Bobboau on February 14, 2004, 03:23:03 pm
I want to upgrade to DX9, but RT don't wana
Title: Bloom effect
Post by: Carl on February 14, 2004, 03:29:29 pm
you're hold us back, RandomTiger :mad:
Title: Bloom effect
Post by: Bri_Dog on February 14, 2004, 05:46:05 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Bobboau
I want to upgrade to DX9, but RT don't wana



Do it anyway just to spite him.

I'll give you a dollar or something.
Title: Bloom effect
Post by: Odyssey on February 14, 2004, 05:50:11 pm
[color=cc9900]I'm sure he has his reasons. Work with what you've got.[/color]
Title: Bloom effect
Post by: Nico on February 14, 2004, 06:06:25 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Odyssey
[color=cc9900]I'm sure he has his reasons. Work with what you've got.[/color]


an old crappy engine they want to upgrade? then I'm missing something :p
Title: Bloom effect
Post by: aldo_14 on February 14, 2004, 06:33:16 pm
Quote
Originally posted by HellToupee


nar they still use the quake 1, tenebrae 2 uses quake 3 bsps its not compatable with the q3 orginal stuff tho. Its www.tenebrae2.com. It dose look pretty good, especially with some levels made with tenebrae in mind and high res textures.


Does indeed
(http://www.tenebrae2.com./screenshots/tenebrae2_tb-base_06.jpg)
Title: Bloom effect
Post by: Bobboau on February 14, 2004, 08:04:01 pm
he's worried that upgradeing will cause our current slowdowns regarding rendering lots of small things (as opposed to rendering a few big things) to get worse. and pissing off RT is one thing I am dead set against doing, he is probly the best coder on the team, all the stuff I've done is mearly an extention of his hard work.

though from what I've read his concerns are nothing to worry about, there doesn't seem to be any signifagant added overhead in DX9, but anyway it's something that would have to wait untill after 3.6.

all the upgrade would likely be is changeing a whole bunch of 8s to 9s and makeing a few changes to the initalisation code, it isn't anywere near as signifigant as the DX8 conversion was (wich is actualy still ongoing)
Title: Bloom effect
Post by: Lightspeed on February 14, 2004, 08:23:09 pm
if you want this game to have a future: focus on multiplayer first. :D
Title: Bloom effect
Post by: phreak on February 14, 2004, 10:11:44 pm
kazan is going to kill you now.  i doubt he'll think twice before doing so ;)
Title: Bloom effect
Post by: Corhellion on February 14, 2004, 10:14:38 pm
omg! :eek:

http://tenebrae.sourceforge.net/shots8/quake93.jpg

I've never seen Q1 look...so...wow...If they can do that with the Q1 engine, you guys could pretty much do ANYTHING with the FS2 engine.

Keep up the Excellent work.

*waits for 3.6*

Cor
Title: Bloom effect
Post by: Bobboau on February 14, 2004, 10:15:22 pm
yeah, I'm dead set against pissing off Kazan too, unless I'm wearing asbesdose lined medevil armor.
Title: Bloom effect
Post by: Liberator on February 14, 2004, 10:44:33 pm
That is primarily bumpmapping, with some nice enviromapping with volumetric fog.  That stuff is coming, but I would prefer to have a nice bug free 3.6, before we get all nuts with the bumpmapping.
Title: Bloom effect
Post by: Corhellion on February 14, 2004, 11:16:08 pm
I'm still waiting for the...dare I say it..."Geo-modded Capships!"

*runs*
Title: Bloom effect
Post by: Sticks on February 14, 2004, 11:49:23 pm
Apparently, pissing Bob and I off is OK. :cool:

And no, you dare not say it...because you have mentioned it, however, you will now receive the brunt of my coding genuis.

Code: [Select]

user *Corhellion = new user;
genius *Sticks = new genius;

void StdResponseLib::GeoMod(user *usr, genius *gen)
{
     gen->AddWeapon(1,Mjolnir_HandHeld);
     gen->FireWeapon(1);

     usr->PlayDeathSequence();
     usr->Release();
}

void WinMain
{
     StdResponseLib *SRL = new StdResponseLib;
     
     SRL->Init();
     SRL->GeoMod(Corhellion,Sticks);
}
Title: Bloom effect
Post by: Rictor on February 14, 2004, 11:52:20 pm
So if I understand correctly, if 3.6 has already been released, and 3.6 was basically the version the intent of which was to clean up all the bugs, the phase that the SCP team is in NOW is the "add lots of cool stuff" phase, right?

If I remember correctly from the original Overexpose Effect thread, the effect is applied to everything onscreen right? Would there we a way to apply it only to certain things but not others. Like for example, apply it to the nebula backgrounds and the HUD, but not to the ships. Would that be possible?
Title: Bloom effect
Post by: Sticks on February 15, 2004, 12:06:45 am
Version 3.6 has not been released.

Yes, this is possible; however, since we are still in bug-fighting mode, I am unsure what shape the implimentation of HDR Flare Sim will take.
Title: Bloom effect
Post by: Bobboau on February 15, 2004, 12:08:21 am
no

yes
Title: Bloom effect
Post by: Lightspeed on February 15, 2004, 05:47:45 am
Quote
Originally posted by PhReAk
kazan is going to kill you now.  i doubt he'll think twice before doing so ;)


He could only kill me if he finishes multiplayer. That's the way it works :D
Title: Bloom effect
Post by: phreak on February 15, 2004, 11:20:17 am
Quote
Will be posted by Kazan in the future
ITS ALREADY $^@&*ING DONE I NEED PEOPLE TO #$&@#ING TEST IT!!!!!!!
Title: Bloom effect
Post by: Setekh on February 15, 2004, 04:58:42 pm
Oooh, Tenebrae... I haven't checked on those guys for a while. Sure looks like some effects I'd love to see in FSO eventually.
Title: Bloom effect
Post by: Silent Warrior on February 16, 2004, 05:49:28 am
You took the words right out of my mouth. Although I haven't looked at Tenebrae at all - FPS-phobia, YAY! :)
Title: Bloom effect
Post by: RandomTiger on February 16, 2004, 06:14:40 am
Quote
Originally posted by Carl
you're hold us back, RandomTiger :mad:


DX9 will come when we are ready.
Title: Bloom effect
Post by: Nico on February 16, 2004, 06:17:23 am
I'm more interested in reflection mapping than bump mapping honestly. Oh, I mean simulated, not true, you know, like the car windows in racing games. basically an environmental map that pans as the ship moves.
Title: Bloom effect
Post by: RandomTiger on February 16, 2004, 06:20:05 am
Quote
Originally posted by Nico


an old crappy engine they want to upgrade? then I'm missing something :p


Thanks very much
Title: Bloom effect
Post by: Nico on February 16, 2004, 06:33:41 am
Mmh? Well, if the vanilla FS2 engine is not old and crappy, means you've found the cheats to unlock the advanced rendering features. Then you lied to us all along!!!

I think you really misunderstood me.
Title: Bloom effect
Post by: RandomTiger on February 16, 2004, 07:03:51 am
Ok well theres the OGL engine, the D3D8 engine, the generic graphics engine that surrounds them both and the actual gameplay engine. Which one are we talking about?
Title: Bloom effect
Post by: RandomTiger on February 16, 2004, 07:09:56 am
Quote
Originally posted by Lightspeed
if you want this game to have a future: focus on multiplayer first. :D


I think you are right there. I wish I knew something useful in that and could help out.
Title: Bloom effect
Post by: Nico on February 16, 2004, 07:10:38 am
In what I said you quoted? The original, 4 or 5 years old FS engine, derivated from the 7 or 8 years old descent engine, pre-SCP era. Kapitche?
Title: Bloom effect
Post by: RandomTiger on February 16, 2004, 07:26:47 am
Theres not really such a thing in the SCP, D3D5 is gone, instead due to hard work by the team we have a fusion between OGL, D3D8 and the generic graphics engine which we are working to update. I personally worked long and hard on getting DX8 operational.

Changing the calls to DX9 wont actually give us anything instantly you know. It will take hard work to implement each and every feature in DX9 fitting it into the existing generic engine. And then a lot of the features will require talented artists to make artwork for it.

If we do more work on the generic engine before hand to squash bugs, restructure bad code and prepare for D3D9 then it will go a lot smoother. Coders and artists can work with a system that is bug free, makes sense and isnt subject to bizarre problems still lingering from the structure of how the system used to work.
Title: Bloom effect
Post by: Nico on February 16, 2004, 08:12:15 am
No, you don't want to understand. So I give up :p
No, I  don't after all: "clears throat"
I WAS TALKING ABOUT THE FS ENGINE BEFORE THE SCP GOT THEIR HANDS ON IT. IS IT CLEAR ENOUGH NOW? :p
So I wasn't criticizing your work or anything.
Title: Bloom effect
Post by: Bobboau on February 16, 2004, 08:18:35 am
I get what your saying
Title: Bloom effect
Post by: RandomTiger on February 16, 2004, 08:29:44 am
Quote
Originally posted by Nico

So I wasn't criticizing your work or anything.


OK, sorry thats what it looked like.
Sick of people having a pop.
Title: Bloom effect
Post by: Foxer on February 22, 2004, 01:50:09 pm
So in the conclusion of this topic and other old topics with that idea... Is the glow-effect (like in this screen http://www.muranowak.com/realglow1.jpg) will be in 3.6? :nervous:
Title: Bloom effect
Post by: Bobboau on February 22, 2004, 01:51:00 pm
after 3.6
Title: Bloom effect
Post by: Setekh on February 23, 2004, 06:10:51 am
That'll be one of the best ones to look out for. Trick is getting it only to render on the parts we want it to.

You know, I kid you not, once FSO leaves behind legacy support for DX8, I'm going to upgrade.
Title: Bloom effect
Post by: Raven2001 on February 23, 2004, 10:45:14 am
I think that everything should be bloomed... it gives a kind of "movie" effect... everything goes a lot smoother...
Title: Bloom effect
Post by: Nico on February 23, 2004, 10:48:00 am
nah, it looks really silly on dark parts.
Title: Bloom effect
Post by: Lightspeed on February 23, 2004, 10:49:30 am
only glowmaps and objects around suns should bloom.

That, and maybe make it optional for the HUD.
Title: Bloom effect
Post by: Deepblue on February 23, 2004, 01:40:42 pm
I wonder how it would look if the "bloom" effect was applied to specular effects?
Title: Bloom effect
Post by: Bri_Dog on February 23, 2004, 02:58:52 pm
Bah! I want the whole game to look like that screen shot :D
Title: Bloom effect
Post by: SadisticSid on February 23, 2004, 03:15:07 pm
Apply the bloom when the hud brightness is increased with the L key maybe?
Title: Bloom effect
Post by: Carl on February 23, 2004, 07:03:45 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Bri_Dog
Bah! I want the whole game to look like that screen shot :D


so all terran pilots are given eye drops before going on a mission?
Title: Bloom effect
Post by: Bri_Dog on February 23, 2004, 08:16:52 pm
Yes
Title: Bloom effect
Post by: Omniscaper on February 23, 2004, 09:58:07 pm
Mushrooms
Title: Bloom effect
Post by: Bri_Dog on February 23, 2004, 10:17:05 pm
Seriously though, the station looked gorgeous like that and I think the ships *NEED* to use it.


BTW, what do beams look with that on?
Title: Bloom effect
Post by: Stryke 9 on February 23, 2004, 10:28:08 pm
Beams are rather blurred to begin with, no?
Title: Bloom effect
Post by: Omniscaper on February 23, 2004, 10:54:34 pm
The Bloom effect (pretty ain't it)  isn't that a DX9 feature like in Need for speed: Underground and Deus Ex2?

Ok, heres what you do if you really want that effect in this game and others. Its actually quite easy. I always thought I had to be a hardcore programmer. There are multiple ways of accomplishing this.

Method #1
Go to your local thrift store or Coscos, and buy an industrial-sized Vaseline or Vicks Vapor Rub. Take 2 fingers and smear the effective areas of your monitor. I'm serious!!! Even George Lucas used this method. I find it best to keep the radar section clear so you can see you're targeting.

If you wear glasses, you save money by applying it directly over your glasses. Its tougher to isolate the radar section.

Method#2
Go to your thrift store and pick up some Visine or Murine (Red eye removal or natural tears) and put two drops in each eye. I find the effect to be more effective when put in only one eye, but it varies per person. The post-game headache can be relieved with Tylenol.

An alternative way, but not guaranteed method is to that is to go to your optician and get an eye check up. Get ALL letters on the eye chart incorrect and they need to inspect your eyes. Most of the time they will put two drops of a special dye in your eyes that will require you to wear sunglasses for the rest of your day. This method is more effective if you never had an eye exam before.

Method#3
This is a conditional method, for it requires you to have a severe cold or suffereing from a fever. If you take Nyquil you can take care of two brids with one stone. It does an EXCELLENT job with this effect, that is of course you only get approximately 1-2 hours before it knocks you out cold.


In conclusion, all these methods will give great results without having a performance drop on your system. Otherwise, we're gonna have to wait for the SCP wizards to perfect HT&L until they can get to this type of eyecandy. I hope you folks find this usefull. Have a nice day!!! =)     ::takes some Nyquill::
Title: Bloom effect
Post by: Raven2001 on February 25, 2004, 08:18:21 am
LOL!!!!! Never thought of that!!! Brilliant :D
Title: Bloom effect
Post by: Ransom on February 28, 2004, 01:51:07 am
I also think everything should be bloomed - I know it'll be a while before this stuff gets implemented, but you should make it an option between blooming everything and only specific things to satisfy both whatsamacallits, provided that's possible.
Title: Bloom effect
Post by: TopAce on February 28, 2004, 03:19:36 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Sticks
Do you mean like this:

Overexposure Thread (http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php/topic,17795.0.html)


Link doesn't work. Did you really move it?
Title: Bloom effect
Post by: Raven2001 on February 28, 2004, 04:40:07 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Ransom Arceihn
I also think everything should be bloomed - I know it'll be a while before this stuff gets implemented, but you should make it an option between blooming everything and only specific things to satisfy both whatsamacallits, provided that's possible.


Yeah, everything should be bloomed... I mean, just look at Invisible wars! With the bloom (and everything gets bloomed...) everything looks REAL, and I mean like REAL that you see from your own eyes in the REAL world!!!
Title: Bloom effect
Post by: Omniscaper on February 28, 2004, 05:50:21 pm
It would be cool to have the same effect in NeedForSpeed:Underground when you use nitro (the motion blur effect) used when you hit the afterburners in FS2.
Title: Bloom effect
Post by: Ransom on February 28, 2004, 09:44:35 pm
Yeah, that effect was cool.

But in Invisible War, doesn't it use the blooming to give a focusing kind of effect for things in the distance, rather than make everything kinda glowish? That focusing effect would be good too, but I was thinking more like the effect seen in Prince of Persia: Sands of Time. Maybe a combination of both?