Hard Light Productions Forums
Modding, Mission Design, and Coding => The Modding Workshop => Topic started by: Eishtmo on February 15, 2004, 01:42:12 pm
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No, I'm not looking for people to work on a campaign, I'm trying to develop something and I need the FREDers of the board to give me some feedback.
I've been trying to find a way to more easily translate a campaign's story into their various mission formats. It comes in the form of an outline of which I present a template design:
A. *Mission X* A Template
[list=1]
- BRIEFING: Mission Briefing layout
a. Various details
b. Various details
- OBJECTIVE: Primary Objective of mission
a. Secondary Objectives
b. Bonus Objectives
- COMPLICATION: Enemy forces
a. Enemy surprises
b. Allied surprises
- RESOLUTION: Desired outcome
a. Objectives achieved
b. Objectives failed
c. Other
[/list=1]
This is what I want to know:
A) Can you make a mission based on this layout?
B) What further information would you want or need?
C) Would you prefer a different handling of it other than an outline format?
This is only a short template right now, and can be expanded on as the need arises, but for review purposes this should do. I've got a lot of complicated plot lines set up for the TVWP campaigns, and I want to make the transition from text to FS as easy as possible so any feedback you guys can give me would be appreciated. Thanks.
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Urgh. My FREDding is very disorganised. I just throw SEXPs and what not at it till I get what I want, more or less. I really couldn't comment on templates like this
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Whoops. Heh, knew I'd forgotten to mention something.
This is nice. It clearly shows what is going on in the mission, what happens, what changes... however, I wouldn't say it's particularly necessary. The most important thing is the information - laying it out all nice is just a bonus. Omissions in data needed to make campaign work properly is more dangerous than badly laid out, if accurate, campaign plans.
Which means that you need to have some kind of paragraph or something containing all the fluff details or whatever. Including 'who's this, what's that' in the middle of a campaign plan confuses and obscures what really needs to be seen.
:yes:
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Im a good FREDer and so is BR. We can help you with whatever you need. Although I havent ever really made a campaign i know how they are developed and I know a few work-arounds in SEXP. So, are you looking for something like, a way to set something up or what?
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That's pretty much the way I script out the missions I write, Eish. I've only ever invented a couple I can think of that don't fit into that template.
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I dont use templates unfortunately..i get a mission Idea, i open up FRED and make it happen as much as possible before I close FRED and forget about it for 2-3 weeks :p
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I always have a general idea of how a mission is supposed to pan out before starting work on it, but I don't write up any actual outline of it.
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The problem here is I'm NOT a FREDer. Never have been, never will be. But I can write a good story, so I need to build a bridge between me and those making the missions.
In any case, it sounds like this should work out pretty well. I invite anyone/everyone to use it to help keep everything clear. Frankly, writing a mission summary paragraph is just far too annoying, and this makes it a lot quicker and easier. Thanks for the help guys.
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For MindGames I've just written down a written discription of the way I want the mission to go in general and I leave the actual implementation to the FREDder. There are only a few very complicated missions where I've written more than a paragraph or two.
I find that by doing things that way the FREDder gets to put a lot of input into the mission. It does help if the FREDder knows the whole MG storyline though :)
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Originally posted by Eishtmo
Frankly, writing a mission summary paragraph is just far too annoying, and this makes it a lot quicker and easier.
I usually prefer a paragraph though. It seems easier to follow than an outline, regardless of whether the mission is simple or complex.
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I think that must come down to individuals, Goober, because I actually find the reverse - when I have an outline, I can check things off and follow my progress much better. Each to his own, I suppose. :)
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any missions I do usually revolve around a single idea.
not much planning imvolved.
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Originally posted by karajorma
For MindGames I've just written down a written discription of the way I want the mission to go in general and I leave the actual implementation to the FREDder.
Actually, that's why I'm using an outline. When I write a mission summary, I'm bound to be thinking of numbers, positions, whole sequences etc. With the outline, I have to be quick and dirty, leaving the FREDer to fill in the details. So when the line says "Enemy forces," it means types, not numbers or placement. This way the FREDer has as much freedom as possible without A) going against the story and B) getting lost. Summary paragraphs are much more likley to lack information than this, and the outline makes a checklist that the FREDer can follow without missing a beat.
Well, that's the idea anyway.
I wish I had missions as simple as yours magatsu. Would make my life easier, that's for damn sure.
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I must say, the only time I've ever read a mission outline that just was so simple to understand, and easy to make a mission out of, was the outlines Ascraeus wrote up.
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Personally, I just write a summary of the types of stuff that occurs, the impact on the storyline, and leave the specifics down to the Fredder. i.e. DG :)
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I DO TEH SEXP WRANGLING :nod:
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Arr. They be tasty varmints, those sexps.
(er, that came out all Yorkshire farmer-cowboy for some reason)
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You Brits are weird. :p
(Have you two met up yet in RL?)
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Originally posted by Sandwich
You Brits are weird. :p
(Have you two met up yet in RL?)
Nope - DG talks quite frequently of not wearing pants (and that's pants in the British sense), so I'm scared of him.
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<-- commando all the way
Besides, if me and Aldo met up we'd just get drunk and eat kebabs, which wouldn't be very productive at all
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You have only one problem with it - What if multiple FREDers work on your campaign?
You said that you just say "Enourmous Forces" and let the FREDer do the rest. Let's say that in a mission that one FREDer does, there is a huge battle in which the Alliance wins and the Shivans withdraw. The next mission is done by another FREDer and it involves hunting down the remains of the Shivan fleet...
So what if in the first mission 1 destroyer and 3 cruiser escaped, and in the second mission you end up hunting down 3 destroyers and 1 cruiser???
I find it that the general mission outline is important, but allso is filtering out the crucial information so that the campaign as a whole functions well...
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So what if in the first mission 1 destroyer and 3 cruiser escaped, and in the second mission you end up hunting down 3 destroyers and 1 cruiser???
That's a Failure to Communicate on the part of the FREDders.
(*wins ten billion bonus points*)
A good campaign team will make sure to discuss such things if the issue is left open. That's what teamwork is all about, kids!
THIS POST WAS BROUGHT TO YOU BY THE LETTERS B AND R
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Originally posted by diamondgeezer
<-- commando all the way
Besides, if me and Aldo met up we'd just get drunk and eat kebabs, which wouldn't be very productive at all
I don't eat kebabs, tho.
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Kebab Eees Gooot!
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My format is as follows. It seems to work well for my team.
.fs2. Author:
Background/Description:
System Location:
Mission Objectives:
Plot/Notes:
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Originally posted by aldo_14
Nope - DG talks quite frequently of not wearing pants (and that's pants in the British sense), so I'm scared of him.
:shaking:
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Originally posted by TrashMan
You have only one problem with it - What if multiple FREDers work on your campaign?
You said that you just say "Enourmous Forces" and let the FREDer do the rest. Let's say that in a mission that one FREDer does, there is a huge battle in which the Alliance wins and the Shivans withdraw. The next mission is done by another FREDer and it involves hunting down the remains of the Shivan fleet...
So what if in the first mission 1 destroyer and 3 cruiser escaped, and in the second mission you end up hunting down 3 destroyers and 1 cruiser???
I find it that the general mission outline is important, but allso is filtering out the crucial information so that the campaign as a whole functions well...
That's why I'm trying to develop one that works universally, so that eight different FREDers can take eight sequential missions and make them seamlessly fit together. Or two different FREDers can take the same mission outline and create two different missions that meet the same goals. I want to give FREDers as much leeway as possible, but the way my plots run, it's going to be just as important that they don't go off unnecessary tagnets.
So, I would never say "Enormus Forces," I'd give an idea of the type of forces (Destroyer, couple of cruisers, lots of fighters, etc) and use the RESOLUTION section to say what I want to surivive the mission for use in the next.
This also allows the FREDers to make specific suggestion to particular missions and make rapid changes and additions to it.
All in all, this is only part of a campaign outline. Notice I started with A and not I. The roman numerals represent the campaign briefings and general information that support the missions. I hope anyway.