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Off-Topic Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: J3Vr6 on February 18, 2004, 04:17:26 pm

Title: Installing a motherboard
Post by: J3Vr6 on February 18, 2004, 04:17:26 pm
Hi d'ere, Ho d'ere!!

Alright, I got my MSI motherboard sitting right beside me.  I got my 2 harddrives that were in my 450mhz sitting right next to that in a nice orderly fashion.  It has windows 98se installed on the big boy.  They are full to the brim with stuff, and not all porn :(

I'm going to attempt to put this computer together when I get home in an hour.  I can figure out putting in the processor, the video card, the cd players, and memory.  But I keep getting conflicting informatoin about installing my harddrives.

One person tells me that I should be all smiles and giggles and be up and running in seconds flat after I install the harddrives, yay me.  Other people tell me that my OS is going to poop slime (a very messy concoction) since it's a different motherboard, processor, and memory from what was on before.  In this little pool of people, some are telling me that I"m going to get the blue screen of death.  Some tell me I'll get that and will have to install system files...

So here I am, brain people.  What am I looking at when I install this motherboard?  Am I gonna be able to work with it normally or will I have to cry and pray?
Title: Installing a motherboard
Post by: Liberator on February 18, 2004, 04:50:46 pm
I recommend a clean install as you will have to load chipset/AGP drivers and it's just a good idea in general.  It may work, but you'll have fewer problems with a clean install.
Title: Installing a motherboard
Post by: aldo_14 on February 18, 2004, 04:52:33 pm
Clean install is always better.... when I rebuilt my Pc, I shoved in a new video card, mobo and soforth, and the old Win ME install worked ok.  Although I reformatted anyways (had to wait a few days for a copy of win2k)
Title: Installing a motherboard
Post by: Odyssey on February 18, 2004, 04:55:52 pm
[color=cc9900]It's perfectly possible just to switch a harddrive into a different case, just make sure all the BIOS settings are alright and your OS ought to set everything up as if they were freshly installed. You might end up with redundant drivers, but unless you're really tight on space it isn't all that much of a problem.[/color]
Title: Installing a motherboard
Post by: Thorn on February 18, 2004, 04:56:05 pm
If you're running XP you wont have any trouble. 2K isusually ok.
98/ME you're gonna have to format probably. While you're formatting you're probably better off installing 2000 or XP anyway...
Title: Installing a motherboard
Post by: Odyssey on February 18, 2004, 05:00:57 pm
[color=cc9900]When I was upgrading my sister's computer, I switched her HD into a spare working case I had, and the HD from that case into her old machine. Both used 98SE. After installing drivers for everything, they run perfectly okay.
Unless the OS running is set up as a real bodge job anyway, it ought to translate fine whatever it is with no terminal problems.[/color]
Title: Installing a motherboard
Post by: J3Vr6 on February 19, 2004, 08:17:37 am
Well, I didn't even get to that point :(  I plugged everything in as best as I thought and turned it on.  The little lights on the keyboard blinked, the computer beeped, I jumped for joy.  Then a few seconds into it, it just shut down.  

I was like, "Argh?"  and looked over all the connections.  It didn't have a connection guide so I had to go by the references in the manual, but I think I connected everything right.

Suggestions?
Title: Installing a motherboard
Post by: kasperl on February 19, 2004, 09:36:11 am
AGP card might have the wrong voltage, if the beep code isn't the normal one. go to the site of the mobo and look up all the beep codes.
Title: Installing a motherboard
Post by: Liberator on February 19, 2004, 10:05:30 am
Define "a few seconds".  Does it POST?  Do you get a picture of any kind?

You shoul have gotten a "D-Bracket" with the board.  It doubles as a second set of USB ports.  Anyway, the manual has a listing of the various LED codes and what they mean.  It diagnoses any problem in the start up sequence.

When I assembled mine I had to put two sticks of memory in before it would load Windows.  And I had to replace one of those because it was bad.
Title: Installing a motherboard
Post by: J3Vr6 on February 19, 2004, 10:51:09 am
I didn't get any video as it was just a few seconds, my monitor takes a little while to warm up.  The beep I got I thought was the POSTing, but I didn't see a screen so I don't know :(

I thought of the D-braket, as I installed it too.  But at the time it happend I pooped my pants and didn't think to look at it before I unplugged the system.  After I remember and didn't wanna try again in fear that I'd break it.

The agp slot supports 1.5v/3.3v and goes up to 4x.  My video card is a Creative 3d Annihilator 2 MX (Geforce 2) that's AGP 2.0 compliant or something.  4x also.  I know it's working, at least it did in my 450.
Title: Installing a motherboard
Post by: Odyssey on February 19, 2004, 10:58:40 am
[color=cc9900]Hit 'del' at startup, enter the BIOS settings, and make sure that all the IDE outlets are set to 'Auto'. If it's thinking your drives aren't what they are, that's the time at bootup it would go wrong.

Also, keep in mind that if you don't try again, you'll never get it working. If what's happened has damaged it, it's already been done.[/color]
Title: Installing a motherboard
Post by: J3Vr6 on February 19, 2004, 10:58:43 am
I just looked it up on the MSI website, and they say that it could be due to cpu overheating and make sure the cpu heatsink is properly installed.  I think I had done it right.  One thing I notices is that the guy didn't put thermal glue between the heatsink and the processor like I've read.  But if it worked for him, why wouldn't it work for me?
Title: Installing a motherboard
Post by: J3Vr6 on February 19, 2004, 11:03:11 am
Quote
Originally posted by Odyssey
[color=cc9900]Hit 'del' at startup, enter the BIOS settings, and make sure that all the IDE outlets are set to 'Auto'. If it's thinking your drives aren't what they are, that's the time at bootup it would go wrong.

Also, keep in mind that if you don't try again, you'll never get it working. If what's happened has damaged it, it's already been done.[/color]



I was hitting 'del' when it happened.  But it may just be the computer overheating...


And you're right about if it's broke already, it'll still be broke it I tried again.
Title: Installing a motherboard
Post by: Odyssey on February 19, 2004, 11:04:34 am
[color=cc9900]Theoretically, you're probably fine without paste or pads unless you're overclocking. I doubt it'd quite work like you've described if the processor was overheating, it'd likely do something a little more violent.

You ought to be able to hit 'del' before it beeps. Start pressing the key repeatedly immediately after you hit the on button.[/color]
Title: Installing a motherboard
Post by: karajorma on February 19, 2004, 11:39:18 am
If your motherboard is shutting down due to overheating it should be beeping at you before it does so. Try disconnecting the drives completely. Your PC should post even with no hard drives.
Title: Installing a motherboard
Post by: Grey Wolf on February 19, 2004, 12:30:24 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Odyssey
[color=cc9900]Theoretically, you're probably fine without paste or pads unless you're overclocking. I doubt it'd quite work like you've described if the processor was overheating, it'd likely do something a little more violent.

You ought to be able to hit 'del' before it beeps. Start pressing the key repeatedly immediately after you hit the on button.[/color]
Umm.... Paste is needed. Period. No questions about it. A modern processor without paste is very likely to fry.
Title: Installing a motherboard
Post by: J3Vr6 on February 19, 2004, 12:53:58 pm
It didn't have paste before, though.  And I was hitting 'del' since the moment I turned it on.  The FAQ from MSI said the following:

The computer shuts down after 3 seconds of pressing the power button.  And the explanation was the overheating.  I don't know, I've never built a computer before so I don't know what I should be looking for anyway.
Title: Installing a motherboard
Post by: Odyssey on February 19, 2004, 01:08:30 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Grey Wolf 2009
Umm.... Paste is needed. Period. No questions about it. A modern processor without paste is very likely to fry.

[color=cc9900]Fair enough, but I can't say I've ever used it before. I'm not up with the times, obviously.[/color]
Title: Installing a motherboard
Post by: karajorma on February 19, 2004, 01:37:45 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Grey Wolf 2009
Umm.... Paste is needed. Period. No questions about it. A modern processor without paste is very likely to fry.


Don't use it either. Never have. Temperature sensor on my mobo seems perfectly happy.
Title: Installing a motherboard
Post by: J3Vr6 on February 19, 2004, 01:50:07 pm
Well that leaves me back to square one then :(
Title: Installing a motherboard
Post by: Liberator on February 19, 2004, 01:56:47 pm
Try the paste, I've never seen a pro say that you can leave it out.  My heatsink uses a Berquist pad instead of paste, and I run at ~42º C.

BTW, what processor are you trying to use?
Title: Installing a motherboard
Post by: J3Vr6 on February 19, 2004, 02:05:18 pm
1400xp
Title: Installing a motherboard
Post by: Liberator on February 19, 2004, 02:19:48 pm
Athlon or Duron.  I don't think they make an Athlon 1400+.

http://www.msi.com.tw/program/products/mainboard/mbd/pro_mbd_cpu_support_detail.php?UID=amdcpu
Title: Installing a motherboard
Post by: J3Vr6 on February 19, 2004, 02:22:14 pm
well, poop, you'll have to wait for that one.
Title: Installing a motherboard
Post by: karajorma on February 19, 2004, 03:58:04 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Liberator
Try the paste, I've never seen a pro say that you can leave it out.  My heatsink uses a Berquist pad instead of paste, and I run at ~42º C.


If you're overclocking or having heat problems then it's worth it but most people don't need thermal paste if you've got a good cooler.
Title: Installing a motherboard
Post by: J3Vr6 on February 19, 2004, 04:45:06 pm
It's a 1700, btw.

Oh, and some guy was supposed to help me from work so I brought it in and he bails on me... grrrrr...


So now you guys are gonna have to help me.  Whoever gets my system running will get a pound of turkey.
Title: Installing a motherboard
Post by: Liberator on February 19, 2004, 04:56:05 pm
1. Are you currently using any sort of thermal conductive compound?

If not, get some, any kind will do.  I recommend a pad of some sort as they are harder to **** up.  This is based on your assumption that the computer won't start because of thermal issues.  Before you apply it, get the purest rubbing alchohol you can find and use a lintless applicator like a cotton swab to gently clean the surface of the chip and the heat sink.  Thermal conductive compounds, whether grease or pad, get down into the microscopic fissures in the surface of the chip and the heat sink, especially when heated.  This chases stagnant air, which is a good insulator, out and replaces it with something with a much higher thermal conductivity, which in turn transfers heat from the chip to the HS and then to the air the fan pushes through the HS.

There is no reason not to use a thermal interface of somekind.
Title: Installing a motherboard
Post by: J3Vr6 on February 19, 2004, 05:31:39 pm
Ok the thermal compound aint gonna happen right now.  I'm not gonna go fish for a radio shack right now.  It should work without the compound
Title: Installing a motherboard
Post by: J3Vr6 on February 19, 2004, 05:52:20 pm
Ok I turned it on again.  I looked at the little lights and it shuts down at Memory detection test.  But it doesn't explain what that means.  It says that it would hang if the module is damaged or not installed properly... that's it...

Help?
Title: Installing a motherboard
Post by: J3Vr6 on February 19, 2004, 07:08:46 pm
Hey, I got it working!!!   I had the fan on wrong :p

But now it's detecting new hardware and asking for a viadsk.cat...
Title: Installing a motherboard
Post by: Odyssey on February 19, 2004, 07:16:28 pm
[color=cc9900]Congratulations, go buy yourself that turkey.

It's supposed to look for new hardware - the whole lot is alien to it. You'll need driver disks for all of the new computer's components handy.[/color]
Title: Installing a motherboard
Post by: Liberator on February 19, 2004, 07:33:18 pm
Yay!!!!!!!!!111111111:yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes:


Still would put some kind of thermal interface on it eventually though.
Title: Installing a motherboard
Post by: J3Vr6 on February 19, 2004, 07:35:37 pm
yippee!!! I'm now downloading all the SCP goodness that i've been missing out on!!!

Oh, also, one thing I need to know.

in the bios it says my fsb is at 100 right now.  Doesn't the 1700 do faster?  Am I going slower than I should be?
Title: Installing a motherboard
Post by: Liberator on February 19, 2004, 08:29:53 pm
Check the clock on the processor and check what it is supposed to be.  Mine started out underclocked just in case there were problems.  Switch to the "High Performance Settings".  It sounds like your OCing it, but in actuallity you're setting it to what it needs to be for the processor to be what it says it is.
Title: Installing a motherboard
Post by: CP5670 on February 19, 2004, 10:14:50 pm
I also went through a lot of this motherboard hassle about five months ago, although I had to replace the hard drive anyway so there was no issue of reinstalling the OS.

I'm going to be getting a new processor, memory and video card in the next week or so (whenever I have time to go check some retail outlets) and am wondering how much work is involved for installing/debugging these. Is the procedure for replacing the processor and memory easier than that for the mobo? I have done video cards before and those are pretty straightforward, but I don't know about the other things.
Title: Installing a motherboard
Post by: Liberator on February 19, 2004, 10:20:22 pm
It should be easy enough.

It should recount the memory, if it does this usually, fine, if it doesn't, don't worry.

The only hassle might be getting the FSB and voltage right for the processor if the Mobo doesn't do it automatically.  Some BIOS are plug and play, so they know the difference between an Athlon 1800+ and a 2600+ and can adjust accordingly.
Title: Installing a motherboard
Post by: J3Vr6 on February 20, 2004, 09:05:24 am
Well where do I find out what the FSB of the processor is?  It's a 1700xp
Title: Installing a motherboard
Post by: Odyssey on February 20, 2004, 09:10:27 am
[color=cc9900]It's supposed to be 133mhz.[/color]
Title: Installing a motherboard
Post by: J3Vr6 on February 20, 2004, 09:26:16 am
Thanks, right now it was at 100mhz... so I'll change it to 133 when I get home.
Title: Installing a motherboard
Post by: Liberator on February 20, 2004, 11:35:44 am
Set the "High Performance Defaults", the processor in underclocked also.
Title: Installing a motherboard
Post by: J3Vr6 on February 20, 2004, 01:48:25 pm
Hey thanks guys for all your help!
Title: Installing a motherboard
Post by: aldo_14 on February 20, 2004, 02:13:55 pm
Quote
Originally posted by CP5670
I also went through a lot of this motherboard hassle about five months ago, although I had to replace the hard drive anyway so there was no issue of reinstalling the OS.

I'm going to be getting a new processor, memory and video card in the next week or so (whenever I have time to go check some retail outlets) and am wondering how much work is involved for installing/debugging these. Is the procedure for replacing the processor and memory easier than that for the mobo? I have done video cards before and those are pretty straightforward, but I don't know about the other things.


Adding memory is incredibly easy, especially if the mobo is out the case.  Adding a CPu is a little tricky (it was for me), largely because fitting the fan can reply a bit of brute force with a screwdriver to clip it onto the socket correctly - which is somewhat nerve-wracking.

If I can do it, anyone can, so you should be fine.

This can be a helpful guide, BTW; http://www.pcmech.com/byopc/step/1/
Title: Installing a motherboard
Post by: Stryke 9 on February 20, 2004, 03:17:52 pm
Just make sure all the pins are as straight as you can get 'em before fitting in the CPU and there's really no problem. Aside from the aforementioned tough clips that require maybe a little more physical force to close than you'd like to apply around sensitive electronics.
Title: Installing a motherboard
Post by: Grey Wolf on February 20, 2004, 07:28:04 pm
Don't bend pins if at all possible. I spent about a good hour trying to straighten out pins on my hard drive. Not very fun.
Title: Installing a motherboard
Post by: CP5670 on February 20, 2004, 11:09:49 pm
Thanks for the advice. Should I be buying any thermal padding or grease for the processor? I am not sure whether my current processor has either of these, although considering that it's one of the notoriously hot Athlon TB 1400s, it probably does; if it's a pad I might just be able to use that.

Quote
I spent about a good hour trying to straighten out pins on my hard drive.


You know, I did the exact same thing when I had to replace my broken HD, as one pin on the new drive got bent while I was fiddling with the jumper positions and it took quite a bit of work to get it straight again. They should just have a row of switches on these things; the jumpers are confusing to work with and can be a real chore to remove.
Title: Installing a motherboard
Post by: Stryke 9 on February 20, 2004, 11:12:55 pm
The reasoning probably is that if they left them as switches the less computer-literate of tinkers would be encouraged to **** with them.
Title: Installing a motherboard
Post by: kasperl on February 21, 2004, 05:45:08 am
well, jumpers are hard to get out, but when some nitwit takes them frm a carefully selected place and goes to fiddle with 'em, and then drops them into thick carpet, then it is real fun.
Title: Installing a motherboard
Post by: karajorma on February 21, 2004, 06:51:52 am
I remember once I had to take a hard drive I'd just bought back to PC World because it had been shipped missing a jumper (I didn't have any spares then). I told them exactly what the problem was but they kept insisting that they had to replace the entire thing :D
 After about 10 minutes waiting for them to find a replacement one of the techs came out took a look at it, agreed with me about the problem and walked into the repair centre (which was directly behind the customer service desk and in full view the entire time) and got me the jumper I needed out of a drawer full of them :rolleyes:. Left me wondering why PC World were so happy to return a hundred pound drive as defective when I knew they must have the cheap piece of plastic needed to save themselves the hassle :D
Title: Installing a motherboard
Post by: aldo_14 on February 21, 2004, 08:27:41 am
I'm just amazed you found a computer literate PC-World employee.
Title: Installing a motherboard
Post by: redmenace on February 21, 2004, 08:58:38 am
Quote
Originally posted by karajorma
I remember once I had to take a hard drive I'd just bought back to PC World because it had been shipped missing a jumper (I didn't have any spares then). I told them exactly what the problem was but they kept insisting that they had to replace the entire thing :D
 After about 10 minutes waiting for them to find a replacement one of the techs came out took a look at it, agreed with me about the problem and walked into the repair centre (which was directly behind the customer service desk and in full view the entire time) and got me the jumper I needed out of a drawer full of them :rolleyes:. Left me wondering why PC World were so happy to return a hundred pound drive as defective when I knew they must have the cheap piece of plastic needed to save themselves the hassle :D


its retail retards dude. in america we have the same thing. people that make dumb unlogical descisions. My favorite idiots are the ones that do the same mistake over and over.
Title: Installing a motherboard
Post by: karajorma on February 21, 2004, 09:51:15 am
Quote
Originally posted by aldo_14
I'm just amazed you found a computer literate PC-World employee.


I know. It's a pretty unlikely occurence. :) Then again I think the guy I saw was one of the ones who fixes computers and is kept away from the general public on the grounds that he actually knows something about computers. :)
Title: Installing a motherboard
Post by: aldo_14 on February 21, 2004, 10:42:19 am
"Remember, you need a 2GHz processor and 512MB ram to burn CD's and surf the internet!"
Title: Installing a motherboard
Post by: kasperl on February 21, 2004, 01:15:43 pm
ugh, i called tech support to get someone to pick up my laptop for the "pcik-up and return" garantuee, the PCMCIA bay is damaged. the idiot asks if it's ok to format the HD or not. i mean, if i reported that windows had troubles, ok, but to replace a bloody external bay?