Hard Light Productions Forums

Modding, Mission Design, and Coding => The Modding Workshop => Topic started by: Hamano on February 19, 2004, 09:14:23 am

Title: Differences between Gun turret and Missile turret (and GTC Ticonderoga pics here!)
Post by: Hamano on February 19, 2004, 09:14:23 am

I am now testing GTC Ticonderoga in the game.
I decided to put some Cyclops torpedo turrets into it.
I can not understand for diference between Gun turret and Missile turret.
Modelview32 has some entries for Gun turrets and Missile turret,
and they are convertable each other.
However, the gun turret can fire missiles with no problem.

Are there some differences between Gun turret and Missile turret?

Images:

Forward view
(http://www.lares.dti.ne.jp/~hamano/TEMP/ticoforwardview01.jpg)

Rear view
(http://www.lares.dti.ne.jp/~hamano/TEMP/ticorearview01.jpg)

Launching Cyclops torpedoes!
Fighting with torpedoes is very interesting!
However, I also love beam cannons.
(http://www.lares.dti.ne.jp/~hamano/TEMP/ticolaunch01.jpg)

Ticonderoga fleet
(http://www.lares.dti.ne.jp/~hamano/TEMP/ticofleet01.jpg)

Title: Differences between Gun turret and Missile turret
Post by: TopAce on February 19, 2004, 09:17:55 am

I do not use the Missile turret feature in ModelView. In my experience, all gun turrets WILL work as missile launchers. You only have to modify a P to an S to convert it into a missile turret. The last sentence refers to the tables.

Title: Differences between Gun turret and Missile turret
Post by: aldo_14 on February 19, 2004, 09:23:47 am

The primary / secondary turret thing could be a leftover from FS1.....

Title: Differences between Gun turret and Missile turret
Post by: karajorma on February 19, 2004, 09:29:50 am

It is. In FS1 there was a difference but in FS2 you can put missiles in what the pof calls a gun turret and visa versa.

Title: Differences between Gun turret and Missile turret
Post by: TopAce on February 19, 2004, 09:31:28 am

OK, and what do you think of that weird Fenris?
Vise Versa? :eek2:

Title: Differences between Gun turret and Missile turret
Post by: Nico on February 19, 2004, 09:51:26 am

Quote

Originally posted by TopAce
OK, and what do you think of that weird Fenris?

I think that's how the leviathan should have been.
I would have made the "head" lower than the neck than higher, tho, if you know what I mean.

Title: Differences between Gun turret and Missile turret
Post by: karajorma on February 19, 2004, 10:08:24 am

Seen it before. Loved it then and time hasn't changed my mind :)

Title: Differences between Gun turret and Missile turret
Post by: c914 on February 19, 2004, 12:12:32 pm

GTC Ticonderoga lokk like  Nemezis but litle smaller:D
:yes:
 I set missel turets in tables by change this PBanks to SBbanks ( in description of trruet ) it geves  in FRED oportunity to change weapon to any missle that i want. ( see in fred Deimos turrets and you will know what im talking about )

Title: Differences between Gun turret and Missile turret
Post by: Zarax on February 19, 2004, 12:15:45 pm

Hamano, you should try your hand with the Iceni, looks like you make wonderful works when it comes to upgrading FS ships...

Title: Differences between Gun turret and Missile turret
Post by: Johnmike on February 19, 2004, 12:23:09 pm

It's be cool if there was a release of upgraded capital ships.  Like shooting torpedoes.  Perhaps an multiplayer option?  That's be awesome.

Title: Differences between Gun turret and Missile turret
Post by: aldo_14 on February 19, 2004, 12:30:43 pm

Quote

Originally posted by Nico


I think that's how the leviathan should have been.
I would have made the "head" lower than the neck than higher, tho, if you know what I mean.

Or flip the head 180 degrees....  which would pretty much be the same thing I think.

Title: Differences between Gun turret and Missile turret
Post by: Nico on February 19, 2004, 12:33:25 pm

yeah, excepted it would be upside down ;)

Title: Differences between Gun turret and Missile turret
Post by: magatsu1 on February 19, 2004, 02:53:22 pm

would look better upside down.

Title: Differences between Gun turret and Missile turret
Post by: TrashMan on February 19, 2004, 03:03:33 pm

Looks great...Alltough it's missing ...something..
Can't put my finger on it...maby it's the front..it looks longg and flat and on the back end you have two BIG towers.

You might wanna try putting some  small extrusions/towers/fins on the front section

Title: Differences between Gun turret and Missile turret
Post by: Odyssey on February 19, 2004, 03:06:52 pm

[color=cc9900]No it doesn't. And if it did, I'm surprised that you of all people would complain about flat expanses.[/color]

Title: Differences between Gun turret and Missile turret
Post by: TrashMan on February 19, 2004, 03:10:40 pm

Hmm...flamewar? Nahh...

*ignores Odyssey and he goes away*

*shouts* - MY SHIPS ARE GREAT!...You're just jeloaus!
*whispers and strokes his ships* "My preciousssss!"

Title: Differences between Gun turret and Missile turret
Post by: Goober5000 on February 19, 2004, 03:23:54 pm

Hamano:

Is there a difference between this version of the Ticonderoga and the version you gave the Terran-Vasudan War Project?

Are you planning to make the main turret a rotating submodel?

Title: Differences between Gun turret and Missile turret
Post by: Hamano on February 19, 2004, 04:30:11 pm

Thanks,
There is no difference between gun turret and missile turret virtually in FS2.

Goober5000,
Its main hull mesh is exactly same as I sent.
Things related turrets are changed.
I changed shape of turrets and arrangement of turrets. I also added some new turrets.
It will be downloadable when done.

All turrets on topside and downside are made as rotational in Modelview32,
however, I didn't see it is rotating. Why?
On the other hands, the radar dish rotates correctly.

Title: Differences between Gun turret and Missile turret
Post by: StratComm on February 19, 2004, 06:39:11 pm

You have to set the rotational submodels for multipart turrets, though to be honest it's been so long since I messed with them that I couldn't walk you through it if I tried.

Title: Differences between Gun turret and Missile turret
Post by: Goober5000 on February 19, 2004, 07:21:36 pm

Woomeister made the main bottom turret rotational for us.  What he did was to delete the stationary turret and import the rotational turret from the Fenris model.

Title: Differences between Gun turret and Missile turret
Post by: Setekh on February 19, 2004, 11:26:40 pm

Ahhh man, I love this thing. How large is it, btw? Could you post a size comparison? :)

Title: Differences between Gun turret and Missile turret
Post by: karajorma on February 20, 2004, 03:40:21 am

Quote

Originally posted by Hamano
All turrets on topside and downside are made as rotational in Modelview32,
however, I didn't see it is rotating. Why?
On the other hands, the radar dish rotates correctly.

Did you remember to include a rotation time for the turret in the ships.tbl?

If you did have a look at my turretting tutorial  (http://http://homepage.ntlworld.com/karajorma/freespace/shipmods.html) and check you set everything up correctly in modelview.

Title: Differences between Gun turret and Missile turret
Post by: Setekh on February 20, 2004, 05:18:36 am

Oh, and welcome to the highlights. :)

Title: Differences between Gun turret and Missile turret
Post by: Gloriano on February 20, 2004, 05:23:56 am

Very nice indeed:) :yes: :yes:

Title: Differences between Gun turret and Missile turret
Post by: Flaser on February 20, 2004, 06:19:31 am

You'll meet her or her sister in TVWP :)

Title: Differences between Gun turret and Missile turret
Post by: Zarax on February 20, 2004, 06:23:55 am

Cool...
Are you guys of TVWP going to release something, maybe a demo?

Title: Differences between Gun turret and Missile turret
Post by: Hamano on February 20, 2004, 07:20:58 am

Setekh,
Here is the comparison.
The size of Ticonderoga is very difficult thing.
I tried some other sizes many times, and finally choosed this size.
 
Karajorma,
Thanks, I will try again.

GTC Ticonderoga and Terran vessels comparison
(http://www.lares.dti.ne.jp/~hamano/TEMP/ticocomparison.jpg)

Title: Differences between Gun turret and Missile turret
Post by: Goober5000 on February 20, 2004, 08:19:50 am

Zarax: Yes.

Hamano: I think if you want the bottom turret to rotate, you'll have to physically delete it from the model and then re-add it as a separate submodel.  You'll also have to add the secondary rotating part so that the firing arm can move up and down.

I can send you our model for comparison if you want.  We had another modeller change our turret for us.  It now works exactly the same as the Fenris main turret.

Title: Differences between Gun turret and Missile turret
Post by: c914 on February 20, 2004, 11:31:27 am

From this screnn i can see that he has 650 ore more meaters long. He's to huge.. for a cruiser:doubt:

How meany had turrets?

Title: Differences between Gun turret and Missile turret
Post by: Nico on February 20, 2004, 12:22:08 pm

I was comparing... the fenris would fit into 3 of the orions big turrets. And those turrets hardly do anything to a fighter :doubt:

Title: Differences between Gun turret and Missile turret
Post by: aldo_14 on February 20, 2004, 12:33:45 pm

Scales spot on, i reckon, although a reclassifiaction may be in order.... possibly to something like 'battlecruiser' or 'warcruiser' class?

Title: Differences between Gun turret and Missile turret
Post by: Goober5000 on February 20, 2004, 03:01:56 pm

In TVWP, it's a frigate.

Title: Differences between Gun turret and Missile turret
Post by: Trivial Psychic on February 20, 2004, 04:27:41 pm

What kind of specs have you given her, compared to the Leviathan for example?

Later!

Title: Differences between Gun turret and Missile turret
Post by: Flaser on February 20, 2004, 06:40:44 pm

Quote

Originally posted by Nico
I was comparing... the fenris would fit into 3 of the orions big turrets. And those turrets hardly do anything to a fighter :doubt:

That's why they should be anti-capship turrets with a badass damade and a crawling fire delay.

Title: Differences between Gun turret and Missile turret
Post by: Setekh on February 21, 2004, 04:33:13 am

Quote

Originally posted by Hamano
Setekh,
Here is the comparison.
The size of Ticonderoga is very difficult thing.
I tried some other sizes many times, and finally choosed this size.

That's perfect, thanks Hamano. :)

Title: Differences between Gun turret and Missile turret
Post by: TrashMan on February 21, 2004, 02:00:03 pm

Quote

Originally posted by Nico
I was comparing... the fenris would fit into 3 of the orions big turrets. And those turrets hardly do anything to a fighter :doubt:

True...That's why I edited all standard weapons. The Terran Huge Turret now deals 1200 damage( 3ses re-fire)...DIE SHIVANS!!!!!!
Vasudan Huge Turet - 1000 dmg (2.5 sec re-fire)
Shivan Huge Turret - 1600 dmg (5 sec re-fire)

Title: turret question
Post by: Star Dragon on February 21, 2004, 04:25:45 pm

Figured this would be a good palce to ask.

  I know how to make single turrets for ST ships, but for FS ships I want to show a physical turret. Can I somehow edit a V model or some model with turrets I like and paste them on a model? then use Karajorma's tut on multipart turrets for the barreled ones and the single part tut for the V beam cannon types???

  I think I've mastered the non visual single parts for ST ships, but now I need to edit non ST ships that use traditional weaponry that can be seen.. Any tut's out there for cut and paste?

Title: Differences between Gun turret and Missile turret
Post by: deep_eyes on February 22, 2004, 10:58:12 am

Quote

Originally posted by Flaser


That's why they should be anti-capship turrets with a badass damade and a crawling fire delay.

yea well for some reason every time we attempt to suggest this, it tends to get fubared along the conversation.

but if it were to be made (the cap-turrets) into "true" battleship turrets/ destroyer turrets, then it would have to be TBL'ed in. heck using cyclops pof's as a "phyiscal shell" projectile, or even if it were the "green globs" were enhanced to do more damage and hit as if it were a kenetic weapons (ie impact forces ship to jolt), thenit be a great effect.

Title: Differences between Gun turret and Missile turret
Post by: Zarax on February 22, 2004, 11:00:38 am

BTW, capship turret ROF is way slower than it should, even when using the highest AI level...

Title: Differences between Gun turret and Missile turret
Post by: Hamano on February 22, 2004, 04:59:32 pm

Goober5000:

Thanks, please send me your model.
I'd like to watch for comparison to rotate turret.

And GTD Ticonderoga specs:

Length: 519m (in modelview32)
Width: 87m
Height: 282m

1 x Terslash
4 x Green Beam
4 x AAAf
4 x Standard Flak
6 x Cyclops torpedo tubes
4 x EMP adv. missile launcher

I think Ticonderoga is built before GTCv Deimos.
I think,
(1) GTA wants a ship class will be placed between Orion and Fenris.
(2) Cruiser class must be smaller than Corvette class.  
Because of this, Ticonderoga length is twice of Fenris.

I love the word "Battlecruiser", however, I think Battlecruiser class (GTBc)
should be 1 - 1.5 km long.
I love the word "Battleship" also, "GTBB" class may be over 3km long.

Title: Differences between Gun turret and Missile turret
Post by: Nico on February 22, 2004, 05:05:24 pm

Quote

Originally posted by Flaser


That's why they should be anti-capship turrets with a badass damade and a crawling fire delay.

comapring with current day "big guns" ( I think WW2 "rail" guns too ), something that large ( at least 100 meters, right? ) should be able to level a whole city in one shot...

Title: Differences between Gun turret and Missile turret
Post by: karajorma on February 22, 2004, 05:36:12 pm

Quote

Originally posted by Hamano
I love the word "Battlecruiser", however, I think Battlecruiser class (GTBc)
should be 1 - 1.5 km long.
I love the word "Battleship" also, "GTBB" class may be over 3km long.

I'd agree with you if it wasn't for the fact that the naming system is already a little screwed up. A battlecruiser should be an upgraded cruiser with more firepower and armour than a standard cruiser. Since a cruiser is around 300m and a corvette is around 600-700m a ~400-500m long ship fits the name perfectly.

Title: Differences between Gun turret and Missile turret
Post by: Trivial Psychic on February 22, 2004, 09:25:41 pm

What are its hitcount & speed ratings?

Also, perhaps Battleship wouldn't be a good name, since it would be shortenned to GTBS... not a name that inspires confidence. :lol:

I would however, suggest Assault Cruiser (GTAC), but I would prefur Battlecruiser (GTBC).

Later!

Title: Differences between Gun turret and Missile turret
Post by: Deathstorm V2 on February 23, 2004, 09:05:25 am

I would've shortened Battleship to GTBt.  Avoids the disparagement issue and slides off the tongue.

Another thing, I think GTaC should stand for Advanced Cruiser.

Probably alone on those two...

Title: Differences between Gun turret and Missile turret
Post by: Raptor on February 24, 2004, 07:17:54 am

Suggestions:

GTBc/GTBC:   Battlecruiser/ Battle Cruiser (depends on how you say it)
GTHC:  Heavy Cruiser
GTWC: War Cruiser

Personal, I prefer Battlecruiser/Battle Cruiser or Heavy Cruiser;)

Title: Differences between Gun turret and Missile turret
Post by: SadisticSid on February 24, 2004, 07:21:59 am

GTDn for 'Dreadnaught'. Sounds cool too. :)

Title: Differences between Gun turret and Missile turret
Post by: Hamano on February 24, 2004, 07:25:52 am

I placed a multi part turret in bottom of hull, and it works fine.
It is Fenris main turret style and has two barrels.
(http://www.lares.dti.ne.jp/~hamano/TEMP/ticoMPturret.jpg)

Ticonderoga has 8 single-part rotatable turret.
However, I still can not rotate single-part turret.
I think that perhaps single-part turret can not be rotatated.
???
(http://www.lares.dti.ne.jp/~hamano/TEMP/ticoSPturret.jpg)

Title: Differences between Gun turret and Missile turret
Post by: Nico on February 24, 2004, 07:28:31 am

you "can", but you have to cheat: make it like a two part turret, and map the barrel mesh with "invisible.pcx" so it doesn't show. A pure one part turret won't rotate.

Title: Differences between Gun turret and Missile turret
Post by: ryuune75 on February 24, 2004, 07:35:46 am

Quote

Originally posted by Nico
you "can", but you have to cheat: make it like a two part turret, and map the barrel mesh with "invisible.pcx" so it doesn't show. A pure one part turret won't rotate.

It's not enought not to texture the barrel at all? Un-textured poly are invisible in FS2. right?

Title: Differences between Gun turret and Missile turret
Post by: karajorma on February 24, 2004, 07:51:03 am

Quote

Originally posted by ryuune75


It's not enought not to texture the barrel at all? Un-textured poly are invisible in FS2. right?

Nope. Check out the pics of my GTC Great Big Cube in the turretting tutorial.

Nico. That's a great tip. I'll have to remember that one :)

Title: Differences between Gun turret and Missile turret
Post by: ryuune75 on February 24, 2004, 08:03:25 am

Quote

Originally posted by karajorma


Nope. Check out the pics of my GTC Great Big Cube in the turretting tutorial.

Nico. That's a great tip. I'll have to remember that one :)

Stange. I've done that alot, i created invisible turrets to put on my capship, when i don't bother putting a real one (just wanted a firing point), so i just make an untextured cube and put it on the surface of the ships.... in PCS and Modelview it's visible, but in game (both standard and FSO) it's invisible...

Title: Differences between Gun turret and Missile turret
Post by: Nico on February 24, 2004, 08:21:42 am

Quote

Originally posted by karajorma


Nope. Check out the pics of my GTC Great Big Cube in the turretting tutorial.

Nico. That's a great tip. I'll have to remember that one :)

No prob.
As for the untextured poly, well, it's not exactly true, and not exactly wrong. I don't exactly remember how to do it, but I think it's with an unmapped AND w/o any kind of UV coords, you get a transparent, whie mesh. I know I've done that already, but I'm not really sure how.

Title: Differences between Gun turret and Missile turret
Post by: ryuune75 on February 24, 2004, 09:04:10 am

Quote

Originally posted by Nico


No prob.
As for the untextured poly, well, it's not exactly true, and not exactly wrong. I don't exactly remember how to do it, but I think it's with an unmapped AND w/o any kind of UV coords, you get a transparent, whie mesh. I know I've done that already, but I'm not really sure how.

That's exactly what i do.

Title: Differences between Gun turret and Missile turret
Post by: Hamano on February 27, 2004, 07:47:47 am

I've done, now all rotative turrets rotate correctly.
Hidden invisible barrels used for fore and rear turrets.

Fore turrets
(http://www.lares.dti.ne.jp/~hamano/TEMP/ticoforeturrets.jpg)

Rear turrets
(http://www.lares.dti.ne.jp/~hamano/TEMP/ticorearturrets.jpg)

Bottom turrets
(http://www.lares.dti.ne.jp/~hamano/TEMP/ticobottomturrets.jpg)

Initially structure at bottom of hull is sensors.
However I changed it to turrets.

Almost works of Ticonderoga are done.
It will be released in near future.

C o m i n g  s o o n !

Title: Differences between Gun turret and Missile turret
Post by: Setekh on February 27, 2004, 07:52:56 am

Ah, exciting. :) Wow, where are all these completed models all suddenly coming from? :nervous::yes: ;)

Title: Differences between Gun turret and Missile turret
Post by: Havock on February 28, 2004, 03:09:53 pm

why Strike Cruiser?

Heavy cruiser?

the design is great, it's sleek, and looks aggressive in a subtle way.

and i agree on that standard turrets are a laugh.

Title: Differences between Gun turret and Missile turret
Post by: Setekh on March 04, 2004, 07:23:39 am

I think strike cruiser emphasises a more offensive role, while a heavy cruiser would be just as comfortable on defence as on an attack. :)

Title: Differences between Gun turret and Missile turret
Post by: Hamano on March 08, 2004, 05:58:57 pm

I had been isolated from the net for a while.
I am back online now!

When I write "Coming soon", always something happens and I can not continue working.
Hmm.

Title: Differences between Gun turret and Missile turret
Post by: Nico on March 08, 2004, 06:51:51 pm

That's true for everybody, Hamano, probably a varient of Murphy's law :p