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Off-Topic Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: Grey Wolf on February 25, 2004, 07:28:38 pm

Title: Cause of Rover problems: Insufficient Memory
Post by: Grey Wolf on February 25, 2004, 07:28:38 pm
I mean it. There was an article in the newspaper today, that stated that the reason that the Mars rover stopped responding was an insufficient amount of RAM for the number of files stored on the flash memory and running the operating system at the same time. That's what they get for only having 128MB of RAM....
Title: Cause of Rover problems: Insufficient Memory
Post by: Knight Templar on February 25, 2004, 07:58:21 pm
So it stopped working again?


Well ****.
Title: Cause of Rover problems: Insufficient Memory
Post by: Grey Wolf on February 25, 2004, 08:01:14 pm
I'm talking about the first time. They just happened to have an article in the tech section of my paper today explaining it. First decent article I've read in that section for quite a while....
Title: Cause of Rover problems: Insufficient Memory
Post by: phreak on February 25, 2004, 08:25:00 pm
Murphy's law of space exploration:
your planetary rover was made by the lowest bidder
Title: Cause of Rover problems: Insufficient Memory
Post by: an0n on February 25, 2004, 08:25:49 pm
That's what they get for using XP.
Title: Cause of Rover problems: Insufficient Memory
Post by: Liberator on February 25, 2004, 08:33:20 pm
:lol:
Title: Cause of Rover problems: Insufficient Memory
Post by: mikhael on February 25, 2004, 09:19:35 pm
The rover ran out of memory because of some changes they made immediately after launch. An upload failed and had to be restarted, and some stuff from the first upload hung around. There's a couple articles out there on the net explaining the problem in excruciating detail, written by the project members who diagnosed and fixed the problem.
Title: Cause of Rover problems: Insufficient Memory
Post by: Rictor on February 25, 2004, 09:29:36 pm
Yu have got to be kidding. Billions of dollars, hundreds of thousands of man hours, the best technology this Earth has to offer and they couldn't buy a $100 stick of RAM. If it was me, oh hell I'de splurge on the RAM. Who knows, maybe even buy 512 MB. I guess after all those fancy lunches and gold toilets, there simply wasn't enough money left over for oh, say, a mission critical piece of hardware.

You know, with this sort of thing happening, humanity doesn't deserve to land on another planet.
Title: Cause of Rover problems: Insufficient Memory
Post by: an0n on February 25, 2004, 09:40:10 pm
What, like the wars, crime, biggotry and senseless murders aren't reason enough?
Title: Cause of Rover problems: Insufficient Memory
Post by: Bobboau on February 25, 2004, 09:45:45 pm
no
Title: Cause of Rover problems: Insufficient Memory
Post by: kasperl on February 26, 2004, 05:42:24 am
dude, ****.

only 128 meg? i could have donated my PC and they'd have more.
Title: Cause of Rover problems: Insufficient Memory
Post by: Martinus on February 26, 2004, 05:43:05 am
Quote
Originally posted by Rictor
Yu have got to be kidding. Billions of dollars, hundreds of thousands of man hours, the best technology this Earth has to offer and they couldn't buy a $100 stick of RAM. If it was me, oh hell I'de splurge on the RAM. Who knows, maybe even buy 512 MB. I guess after all those fancy lunches and gold toilets, there simply wasn't enough money left over for oh, say, a mission critical piece of hardware.

You know, with this sort of thing happening, humanity doesn't deserve to land on another planet.

[color=66ff00]I seriously doubt it was a $100 stick of RAM:

1. It would have to be at the very least a military grade component to function in the quite remarkably low temp. on Mars, that alone would make it expensive.

2. Each component has to be completely sterile IIRC; it woud be dumb to have a probe find microscopic life on Mars just to realise that it's the life a probe brought with it, also this avoids contamination of the Martian atmosphere. The sterilisation is costly and the device must be able to withstand the procedure and still function obviously.

3. The RAM itself would most likely have all gold contacts to improve the quality of electrical connections. More expense.

That's all I can think of off the top of my head ATM but rest assured there's most likely a handfull of other factors (weight? size?) that would also have limited the amount of RAM onboard. Also note that it was more an excess of redundant software than a deficiency in the amount of memory available that caused the problem.
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Title: Cause of Rover problems: Insufficient Memory
Post by: kasperl on February 26, 2004, 05:45:44 am
so they filled it with bloatware.

that should be calculated in the design, every software dude knows any program will take up at least twice the size needed for the exact same functionality if done right.
Title: Cause of Rover problems: Insufficient Memory
Post by: Setekh on February 26, 2004, 06:05:31 am
Are you serious? Man, that thing ought to have gigabytes of memory at its disposal - not like it would add that much to the flight weight.
Title: Cause of Rover problems: Insufficient Memory
Post by: diamondgeezer on February 26, 2004, 10:03:40 am
Well you say that, but these guys have to calculate stuff to a fraction of a gram. More memory hardware = less scientific payload. But of course when it comes back and bites them in the arse you think maybe they should have swapped the furry dice for more RAM after all...
Title: Cause of Rover problems: Insufficient Memory
Post by: Kazan on February 26, 2004, 10:23:15 am
God you are a bunch of ****ing newbies

1st) The computing compartment is heated with radioisotope heaters

2nd) You cannot go to radioshack and buy ram for space exploration computers - The ram has to be RADIATION HARDEND - We cannot have  bits getting scrambled by the hard radiation it is exposed to

3rd) They picked a poor choice of RTOSs buying from Wind River, but that's because they're been using wind river for a long time, when they started using WR they had no problem because it was fine, but WR's RTOS technology is 20 to 30 years out of date.

4th) Because of the rigorous testing involved in making sure computer hardware is stable enough, radiation shieldable, etc for space NASA will always be about 10 years behind in core computer technology

5th) "Should have Gigabytes" - NO harddrive and I mean NO HARDDRIVE would survive the hard radiation it would be exposed to

6th) POWER CONSUMPTION CONSTRAINTS
Title: Cause of Rover problems: Insufficient Memory
Post by: Kazan on February 26, 2004, 10:25:26 am
Not to mention that this was known a week days after the rover started acting up


welcome to last month
Title: Cause of Rover problems: Insufficient Memory
Post by: diamondgeezer on February 26, 2004, 10:28:30 am
We have been educated :nod:
Title: Cause of Rover problems: Insufficient Memory
Post by: 01010 on February 26, 2004, 12:12:23 pm
I wish all my teachers displayed such tact and elegance though.
Title: Cause of Rover problems: Insufficient Memory
Post by: aldo_14 on February 26, 2004, 12:23:56 pm
Quote
Originally posted by 01010
I wish all my teachers displayed such tact and elegance though.


:lol:
Title: Cause of Rover problems: Insufficient Memory
Post by: Martinus on February 26, 2004, 12:49:27 pm
[color=66ff00]Little bit touchy there Kaz, not everyone keeps up to date with this kind of thing.
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Title: Cause of Rover problems: Insufficient Memory
Post by: Corsair on February 26, 2004, 01:00:09 pm
:sigh:
NASA is not so smart sometimes...
Title: Cause of Rover problems: Insufficient Memory
Post by: Kazan on February 26, 2004, 02:15:07 pm
Maeglamer: i've seen too many presumptious opinions this week
Title: Cause of Rover problems: Insufficient Memory
Post by: Martinus on February 26, 2004, 02:24:39 pm
[color=66ff00]lol you should stop hanging out here then, a lifetime of opinions that all presume they're as valid as the next.
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Title: Cause of Rover problems: Insufficient Memory
Post by: aldo_14 on February 26, 2004, 02:25:38 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Kazan
Maeglamer: i've seen too many presumptious opinions this week


Anyone can make mistakes or be wrong.  You'd do well to bear that in mind next time you judge people.
Title: Cause of Rover problems: Insufficient Memory
Post by: diamondgeezer on February 26, 2004, 02:38:40 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Maeglamor
[color=66ff00]lol you should stop hanging out here then, a lifetime of opinions that all presume they're as valid as the next.
[/color]

:wtf: I thought Ireland had freedom of speech laws like the rest of the civilised world
Title: Cause of Rover problems: Insufficient Memory
Post by: Martinus on February 26, 2004, 02:45:52 pm
[color=66ff00]Urrr, we do. :confused:
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Title: Cause of Rover problems: Insufficient Memory
Post by: 01010 on February 26, 2004, 03:10:53 pm
Quote
Originally posted by aldo_14


Anyone can make mistakes or be wrong.  You'd do well to bear that in mind next time you judge people.


It's not even the judgement that bothers me, it's just that most people wait to express their opinion of someone after a few posts rather than judging them on one post that isn't to their liking.
Title: Cause of Rover problems: Insufficient Memory
Post by: aldo_14 on February 26, 2004, 04:35:09 pm
Quote
Originally posted by 01010


It's not even the judgement that bothers me, it's just that most people wait to express their opinion of someone after a few posts rather than judging them on one post that isn't to their liking.


S'alright, just wait a few months and it'll become backgorund noise.
Title: Cause of Rover problems: Insufficient Memory
Post by: diamondgeezer on February 26, 2004, 04:43:14 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Maeglamor
[color=66ff00]Urrr, we do. :confused:
[/color]

So the remark I quoted was... sarcasm?
Title: Cause of Rover problems: Insufficient Memory
Post by: Martinus on February 26, 2004, 04:48:16 pm
[color=66ff00]No. Not at all. I doubt anyone would post here if they thought their opinion was irrelevant or worthless so I was stating a fact and meant no offense by it.

I hope it does not sound as if I was taking a shot at anyone.
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Title: Cause of Rover problems: Insufficient Memory
Post by: diamondgeezer on February 26, 2004, 04:54:00 pm
Your post implied, to me anyway, that you consider some people's opinions of less worth than others. Some people post utter balls here, but that's their right. I only quoted you and commented in the first palce as it wasn'tt he sort of thing I'd have expected you to come out with :nod:
Title: Cause of Rover problems: Insufficient Memory
Post by: Martinus on February 26, 2004, 04:56:46 pm
[color=66ff00]Quite the opposite. I think everyone has the right to post with the exception of those who would post simply to antagonise others.

That's the only place where I'll step in. :nod:
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Title: Cause of Rover problems: Insufficient Memory
Post by: diamondgeezer on February 26, 2004, 04:58:16 pm
Thought so. I was thus confused by your post, see? I'll stop now afore this thing starts to go around in circles :D
Title: Cause of Rover problems: Insufficient Memory
Post by: Martinus on February 26, 2004, 04:59:38 pm
:lol: