Hard Light Productions Forums
Modding, Mission Design, and Coding => FS2 Open Coding - The Source Code Project (SCP) => Topic started by: TrashMan on February 26, 2004, 09:04:12 am
-
I know this has been discussed 100000000 times...but I was wondering were there any new developments on the field?
I know that one can make a hull-shaped shield for a capships, but it doesn't look good and ..well..it has other flaws..
Someone (can't remember who) made it so that if the shield is specified in the tbl, the ship will act as tough it has shields, alltough without no visual effect...
Now I was thinking a bit and parhaps there can be a hybrid solution...
You know how each weapon can have a impact effect (explosin, shockvawe...etc...). The main idea is to have 2 sets of effect...the game checks if the target has working shields, and the shieldHit effect is desplayed upon impact. Once the shield is down, the impact effect is changed to the standard one(of the weapon)..
This could really work... Any toughts?
-
after 3.6 I'm going to redo the way sheilds are rendered wich will make them both faster and better looking (particularly for capships)
they'll use a variation of my decal code
-
:yes: @ Bob
-
Am I correct in suspecting that we'll be able to define the shieldhit ani in the ships.tbl, so we'll have more than color to differentiate them?
Canonically speaking, FS2 and many related mods wouldn't need this since Terran and Vasudan shield tech was reverse-engineered from Shivan components. But the Star Trek mod, or any other non-FS mod, may appreciate such an option, since not every deflector grid will have the same dispersal pattern.
-
Originally posted by Bobboau
after 3.6 I'm going to redo the way sheilds are rendered wich will make them both faster and better looking (particularly for capships)
they'll use a variation of my decal code
As JC Denton raised (kinda) does that mean we could have a different shield hit for a Subach weapon as opposed to a Cyclops torpedo?
-
That is what I was aiming at...you can have several solutions:
1. different sheldhits for different weapons, different hull_hits for different weapons
2. different sheldhits for different weapons, same hull_hits for different weapons
3. same shieldhits for different weapons, different hull_hits for different weapons
I vote for 1 or 3.....
-
Originally posted by TrashMan
That is what I was aiming at...you can have several solutions:
1. different sheldhits for different weapons, different hull_hits for different weapons
2. different sheldhits for different weapons, same hull_hits for different weapons
3. same shieldhits for different weapons, different hull_hits for different weapons
I vote for 1 or 3.....
You know you can have different hit effects for different weapons as it is now, right?
Different shield hits would be nice, tho :)
-
While we're on the subject of shielding, would it be possible to add a flag to a ship such as "shields resistant", so that beams would not pierce it? I realize that there is a beams_no_pierce_shields flag in the launcher, and a "no_pierce" flag for beam weapons, so that weapon will not to pierce shields, but if I have a new capship with beam resistant shielding, I don't want to use either of the above systems and have all other ships being beam resistant too. Is something like this possible, or should I run into the washroom and cry my eyes out? :(
Later!
-
Originally posted by TrashMan
I know this has been discussed 100000000 times...but I was wondering were there any new developments on the field?
I know that one can make a hull-shaped shield for a capships, but it doesn't look good and ..well..it has other flaws..
Someone (can't remember who) made it so that if the shield is specified in the tbl, the ship will act as tough it has shields, alltough without no visual effect...
Now I was thinking a bit and parhaps there can be a hybrid solution...
You know how each weapon can have a impact effect (explosin, shockvawe...etc...). The main idea is to have 2 sets of effect...the game checks if the target has working shields, and the shieldHit effect is desplayed upon impact. Once the shield is down, the impact effect is changed to the standard one(of the weapon)..
This could really work... Any toughts?
Why yes, let's put big expensive complex shield generators on capital ships even though beam cannons will ignore them completely. Wow, that's such a good idea!:rolleyes:
Sarcasm aside, why bother? Having shields wouldn't have granted even another second of existence to the Belisarius, Psamtik, and Colossus.
-
i find it an interesting point raised on the basis of shields. Although in Freespace 1, there was no shield effect on the Lucifer, but the game stated that it was clearly there. That goes to show that you CAN have a shield on a ship in the Freespace 2 universe, as well as prove to have a potent advantage. lets just say, to make it fair, that a shield could only withstand a mild amount of punishment. One shot from a BGreen would bring it down completely, right? Or how about it is a timed basis. Well, what if command wanted to get a little-ass cruiser from one node, to another, through heavy fire. Or, if you wanted to run a blockade? Simply outfit the ship with the shield, and when you finally reach the blockage, switch it on and make a suicide run for the node. Beam weapons and turrets WILL NOT inflict damage on the ship as it reaches its target and gets the hell out of there. ;7 ;7 ;7
-
Originally posted by Bobboau
after 3.6 I'm going to redo the way sheilds are rendered wich will make them both faster and better looking (particularly for capships)
they'll use a variation of my decal code
Like in Wing Co and Privateer2? Cool, I've been waiting a long time for that.
-
you aren't the only one;)
-
Hmm... some may have not understood what I was proposing...
You might think that this method would drain the CPU a lot, but it can be simplyfied by doing the calculation only for the capships that have a entry in the shield value tbl.
As far as the beam pierce shields stuff...why not have several types of shields? (using a flag) so one type of damage passes trough, other is stopped...
Like Positron sields stop all weapons excep for plasma, some other shields can't stop normal lasers...etc....
However, each weapon would then have a flag that determines it's damage type..etc..etc...
Might be too complicated..... but even IF beams can pierce shields, a shielded capships is far better protected against bombers/missiles/standard weapons
-
it would probly be better to handle that sort of thing by a bunch of multable factors (ie, is more powerful agains one type of weapons but less against another, flags would be less versitile and redundant quick)
when I said I was going to make it more like the decals, I meant it would be like haveing animated decals that only get made on the sheild mesh, they would all be square(ish) and not have distorted UVs if they were too big.
the multable texture thing is a totaly unrelated subject, but while I'm in there I could probly allow this, though I think it would make more sence for each ship to have a specific sheild hit animation for it rather than each weapon, maybe give each ship sevral animations that would be used for diferent types of weapons (bombs, disrupters, mass drivers, ect)
-
Omniscaper's gonna love this, since he'd be able to sheild his star-trek ships.. ;)
-
well he can do that already
-
eh, ST shields are just a blob, not much pain, go add a shield on a star destroyer instead;)
-
Yeah Bobbau, but one will still need to make the shield model...I was talking about shield hits effect on the hull/impact point..
-
Originally posted by Bobboau
when I said I was going to make it more like the decals, I meant it would be like haveing animated decals that only get made on the sheild mesh, they would all be square(ish) and not have distorted UVs if they were too big.
Ah, then make it so if there's no shield mesh, it does the decals directly on the ships hull. That would be useful.
-
Originally posted by Nico
Ah, then make it so if there's no shield mesh, it does the decals directly on the ships hull. That would be useful.
exactly: and it will solve crash issue with the shield mesh. As I stated before we had shield mesh on every capital ship in the game. It looked like the engine was able to render a limited number a shield hit effects and crashed afterwards :(
-
This is spooky, I was only thinking about this topic last night...
Personally, I would prefer to see a shield mesh around a capship, so one could fly under it and deliver your payload direct to the hull;7...
-
one should not be able to fly through a shield, to begin with.
-
Originally posted by Nico
one should not be able to fly through a shield, to begin with.
So? just punch a hole with your Kayers (I don't see capital ship shields being very strong in the FS world), and fly though the hole...
-
shield generators could be used on a per-section system. you would need multiple shield meshes. each one would be linked to a reactor subsystem which in turn could have a different recharge rate and shield strength for its linked shield section. you could also link that section to a frame in its shield icon. critical parts of the ship would get stronger shields, while unnecisary parts would get weaker shields. you could use as many sections as nessisary to cover the capship. an example of a mission using this system is as follows:
you are attempting to disable a capship with shields, a friendly capship focuses its beams on the enemy ship's weakest shield section untill it drops. bombers fly in through the hole to take out the shield generator for a much tougher shield section covering the ships engine subsystem. once that section fails the enemy capship fires its beams at the enemy's engines. ship's disabled
another idea is to have capship shields tuned to prevent beams from piercing it but would allow fighter to fly through them. capships would only have one section. each reactor would recharge the shields and the more you take out, the slower they recharge, take all of them out and the shields stop recharging all together. fighters could fly in and blow stuff up, preventing the shields from regenerating, then allow the capships to do the rest.
-
Originally posted by Raptor
So? just punch a hole with your Kayers (I don't see capital ship shields being very strong in the FS world), and fly though the hole...
I don't think you can "punch a hole" through a shield. to me it's like water and sun, you can't make a hole through the water pool, but his one weakens and eventually vanishes.
As for toughness of capship shielding in FS, the only canon one we know is the one of the lucifer, and it's so tough it grants its owner the wonderful "invulnerable" tag...
To me, it maks more sense that a capship can have huge ass shield generators, and, so, tougher shields, actually.
-
Originally posted by Nico
one should not be able to fly through a shield, to begin with.
I don't think you can "punch a hole" through a shield. to me it's like water and sun, you can't make a hole through the water pool, but his one weakens and eventually vanishes.
As for toughness of capship shielding in FS, the only canon one we know is the one of the lucifer, and it's so tough it grants its owner the wonderful "invulnerable" tag...
To me, it maks more sense that a capship can have huge ass shield generators, and, so, tougher shields, actually.
*Tolwyn nodded while reaching into his pocket and pulling out his pipe. Filling it up he sets it alight*
The bigger the ship the more energy generator systems it contains, and from the energy systems they get more power for phase shielding. The only thing that limits the size of the ship is the area that the jump engine generators can encompass. That argues against that fighter-sizes craft will ever be able to take out a battlewagon. They just do not carry enough punch, while a fifty thousand ton battleship can generate enough energy to power its shields and have enough left over so that its guns could kill a thousands fighters without getting even a scratch. Sure, a couple of hundreds of them hitting one single point might breach the shielding, but the heavy anti space craft guns will tear them to shreds.
The only way to break shield is to hammer it so damn hard that it soaks off all the energy from the generators. And hammering means big ships with damn big guns which means capital ships, not pop gun fighters.
-
Well, I was thinking that the larger volume a single shield generator has to cover, the weaker the shield is. Increasing the number of shield generators, or ramming more power though the generator offsets this, but there would be limits to these effects.
Also, by having main stream capships (Ie NOT the Lucifer) having weak shields would not seriously unbalance the game.
I'd also only let the Shivans have shielding over their capships, with only the most advanced, experimental GTVA craft having weak shielding.
Of course, all this is really boils down to personal preferance, since just about everyone knows how to handle tbl files.
Oh, and ATM, shields do not block other craft.
-
in the reality they do... and in FS2 too, btw
Also, you can have torpedos having high shield hit rate. You will only be able to kill ships with those. I do not see any balane problems with that.
-
I was thinking about giveing the hull based sheilding (ala the lucifer) and the normal buble sheilds, completly difrent systems
-
Originally posted by Tolwyn
in the reality they do... and in FS2 too, btw
What are you refering too? Shields blocking craft?
-
tolwyn: "pop gun fighters" called bombers carry antimatter warheads :D
-
so you say ;)
-
Ummmm...!?
I was talking from the begining about the hull based shielding. Now will any of the Code-Wizzards comment my idea?
-
This could be worked in with the power issue. Say a Cap ship has a limited amount of power, and when the beams are firing (and or powering up) the shields would loose power.
Kind of like on your fighter, if you want more shield power you can have it, if you want more beam power you can have it.
-
Originally posted by Kazan
tolwyn: "pop gun fighters" called bombers carry antimatter warheads :D
Except that urinating on a shield will damage it more than bombing it. Bombs barely affect shields, at least compared to their hull damage. Get caught at the edge of a bomb shockwave and you'll be shocked out how well your shield holds up.
-
woolie: fs2 torpedoes are incredibly ineffective against shields because most of their damage is shockwave damage which barely affects shields
wc torpedoes are shield killing machines
-
Wc torpedoes aren't shield killers at all, they bypass shields. That's why it takes so long to lock onto the target with them, the targeting computer tries to calculate the pattern of the phase shielding so that they won't get stopped by them.
-
exactly... the counter however is to simply increase the frequency of polarity shift to trick the warhead into thinking it has penetrated the shield, so that it blows before it is all the way through.
-
to my shame I have to admit that I did not run the decal exe, 'cause it was kinda buggy. What does it do exactly?
-
Originally posted by Tolwyn
exactly... the counter however is to simply increase the frequency of polarity shift to trick the warhead into thinking it has penetrated the shield, so that it blows before it is all the way through.
oh, copy/paste :p
The decal thing sticks damage decals where a ship is shot, like decals in a FPS when you shoot at a wall.
-
and the last version of the decal exe was very stable for the most part, you could finish most missions, only ones with lots of capships and lots of fighters would crash, and then it would be very far into the mission
we do have code for weapons to pass thrugh sheilds without damageing them, but I'm not sure how well it works for misles, and it hasn't been used for a while
-
Originally posted by TrashMan
Ummmm...!?
I was talking from the begining about the hull based shielding. Now will any of the Code-Wizzards comment my idea?
*being boring and persistant*