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Modding, Mission Design, and Coding => The Modding Workshop => Topic started by: diamondgeezer on February 29, 2004, 08:38:05 pm

Title: High poly asteroids wanted
Post by: diamondgeezer on February 29, 2004, 08:38:05 pm
Yea, verily, the gauntlet hath been thrown down. The first modeller to replace V's lame asteroids with super-duper high poly (and mebbe even hi-res tex) versions wins... *drum roll*... recognition by the HLP community. No time to lose, fire up your modelling proggy before someone else claims this fabulous prize
Title: High poly asteroids wanted
Post by: kasperl on March 01, 2004, 04:56:11 am
perhaps even inclusion in the SCP media VP, but  that's not my decision.
Title: High poly asteroids wanted
Post by: IPAndrews on March 01, 2004, 07:21:40 am
Make sure they're well lodded, if indeed you can lod asteroids at all. My memory fails me.
Title: High poly asteroids wanted
Post by: Grug on March 01, 2004, 07:55:58 am
indeed...

yeh u can (i think) lol.

maybe give em a bit more features than just a deformed sphere? like caves hehe starwars... :p
Title: High poly asteroids wanted
Post by: aldo_14 on March 01, 2004, 07:57:31 am
They have LODs.  although maybe not a full set, and I'm not sure about debris.
Title: High poly asteroids wanted
Post by: Fineus on March 01, 2004, 08:11:11 am
A good start would be ripping HW2s straight out of the game and taking some tips from that. Also.. decent textures. These are rocks floating in space - should be dark and grey and not shine in any way. They're not metal (unless indeed they are metal.. but that depends on your preference :P)
Title: High poly asteroids wanted
Post by: kasperl on March 01, 2004, 08:38:01 am
metal rocks should be in there too, maby even chunks of metal imbedded in the rock.

would it be possible for asteroids to trail particle's?
Title: High poly asteroids wanted
Post by: Raptor on March 01, 2004, 11:06:42 am
If I wasn't concentrating on all my outstanding (ie unfinished) projects (GTD Hera, GTC Aeolus remake, missile models etc), I'd have go at this...

How hi-poly/hi-res are we aiming for?
Title: High poly asteroids wanted
Post by: Taristin on March 01, 2004, 02:28:30 pm
If someone extracts ones from HW, I'll convert them alright.
Title: High poly asteroids wanted
Post by: diamondgeezer on March 01, 2004, 09:59:11 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Raptor
How hi-poly/hi-res are we aiming for?

Hi poly enough that we can't see blatant faces like with the current set. Hi-res as you think you can get away with - peeps can always resize their texes if their boxes are too lame :nod:

And yes, if the spec could be turned off on the asteroids that'd be good. Is there a way to use a shine map to stop the model from shining at all?
Title: High poly asteroids wanted
Post by: Taristin on March 01, 2004, 10:04:20 pm
pure black.
Title: High poly asteroids wanted
Post by: .::Tin Can::. on March 01, 2004, 10:10:54 pm
Hes right, anything that doesnt involve you being able to see that its blocky is a nice asteroid. The ones from Bridge Commander were pure bliss. Try Starfleet Command Volume II: Empires at War. Those were some NICE asteroids.
Title: High poly asteroids wanted
Post by: WMCoolmon on March 28, 2004, 03:54:04 pm
Quote
Originally posted by kasperl
perhaps even inclusion in the SCP media VP, but  that's not my decision.


:nod: Sounds good, is anybody working on these?
Title: High poly asteroids wanted
Post by: Krackers87 on March 29, 2004, 11:44:57 am
Quote
Originally posted by Raa Tor'h
If someone extracts ones from HW, I'll convert them alright.


I could do that, shouldnt be too hard.
Title: High poly asteroids wanted
Post by: Unknown Target on March 29, 2004, 12:17:52 pm
File--->Object---->Smooth---->all

Provides some satisfactory results :)
Title: High poly asteroids wanted
Post by: kasperl on March 29, 2004, 01:50:07 pm
well, that, but we'd like some more complicated structures for dogfighting.....
Title: High poly asteroids wanted
Post by: Bobboau on March 29, 2004, 01:56:53 pm
you could add some noise to the geometry
Title: High poly asteroids wanted
Post by: Flaser on March 29, 2004, 02:39:14 pm
Are tunnels/wholes in the stucture possible with FSO?
Title: High poly asteroids wanted
Post by: Solatar on March 29, 2004, 03:54:02 pm
But if we use tunnels and such it may prove problematic...as you may have loads of the same asteroid in the same asteroid field.
Title: High poly asteroids wanted
Post by: Taristin on March 29, 2004, 04:12:51 pm
That, and the AI will get stuck in them.

[Edit: Damned capslock... :hopping:]
Title: High poly asteroids wanted
Post by: Lightspeed on March 29, 2004, 04:36:29 pm
You'll have to give it a good shinemap. Shinemaps can add LOTS of detail to a model (make the crater edges / height differences shine more then the rest of the rock) - this prevents it from being just "black" and from being "shiny" at the same time.

PLUS, it looks way more hi-poly than it is :)
Title: High poly asteroids wanted
Post by: aldo_14 on March 29, 2004, 04:38:16 pm
If you want big, complex roids, why not make them and use them as a standalone pof, as you would an installation?
Title: High poly asteroids wanted
Post by: kasperl on March 30, 2004, 01:28:19 am
that would be fun, but not so complex, high poly would be a normal asteroid
Title: High poly asteroids wanted
Post by: Trivial Psychic on March 30, 2004, 04:04:48 am
Here's something in the same gendre... how about a comet?  Make a large asteroid (again, this would be for individual use, not for an asteroid field), say the size of a Deimos.  Make sure that the comet's surface is a rotating subsystem that tumbles forward (or even on more axes if possible, but at different rates) around a submodel in the center, that also has an engine, though not as a targetable subsystem (like on an escape pod).  I'm not sure if this is possible without making the engine subsystem targettable, but an engine wash would be cool in its wake.  Then, use lots and lots of particles combined with a massive missile trail.  For the particles, I'm not sure how they work exactly and what control we have over its properties, but if they could be altered for this model to have a longer lifespan, it would ensure a dynamic tail for it.  Then, all we need is to give the model a reasonable speed in its table file, place it in FRED, and give it ai-waypoints-once orders to have it pass through the field of battle.  Idealy, it would have the same grey appearance on radar as an asteroid, by using the "navbuoy" flag, but I'm not sure if this flag will accept waypoint orders.  I'd also recommend "big_dammage" to keep it from being destroyed by small arms.

Now obviously, this comet is not designed to be scientifically accurate, since comets tails do not always follow them, n'or do they always HAVE a tail, but FS has never been about strict scientific adherence... more like a very classy and intelligent shoot-em up.

This may be outside the possiblities for FS2, but it could also be a chance for some of our experienced moders to show their stuff and take on such a challange.... hint, hint. ;7

Later!
Title: High poly asteroids wanted
Post by: Unknown Target on March 30, 2004, 05:44:33 am
If you want asteroid-dodging fun, you should probably just make custom 'roids for the purpose, rather than using the standard asteroid belt ones. Set a "likelyhood of appearence" in the asteroids.tbl for the 'roids.
Title: High poly asteroids wanted
Post by: aldo_14 on March 30, 2004, 06:01:31 am
Quote
Originally posted by Trivial Psychic
Here's something in the same gendre... how about a comet?  Make a large asteroid (again, this would be for individual use, not for an asteroid field), say the size of a Deimos.  Make sure that the comet's surface is a rotating subsystem that tumbles forward (or even on more axes if possible, but at different rates) around a submodel in the center, that also has an engine, though not as a targetable subsystem (like on an escape pod).  I'm not sure if this is possible without making the engine subsystem targettable, but an engine wash would be cool in its wake.  Then, use lots and lots of particles combined with a massive missile trail.  For the particles, I'm not sure how they work exactly and what control we have over its properties, but if they could be altered for this model to have a longer lifespan, it would ensure a dynamic tail for it.  Then, all we need is to give the model a reasonable speed in its table file, place it in FRED, and give it ai-waypoints-once orders to have it pass through the field of battle.  Idealy, it would have the same grey appearance on radar as an asteroid, by using the "navbuoy" flag, but I'm not sure if this flag will accept waypoint orders.  I'd also recommend "big_dammage" to keep it from being destroyed by small arms.

Now obviously, this comet is not designed to be scientifically accurate, since comets tails do not always follow them, n'or do they always HAVE a tail, but FS has never been about strict scientific adherence... more like a very classy and intelligent shoot-em up.

This may be outside the possiblities for FS2, but it could also be a chance for some of our experienced moders to show their stuff and take on such a challange.... hint, hint. ;7

Later!


Actually, it's already been done, more or less....
Title: High poly asteroids wanted
Post by: kasperl on March 30, 2004, 07:13:41 am
oh?

I'd like a linky to that.....
Title: High poly asteroids wanted
Post by: Gloriano on March 30, 2004, 07:59:27 am
Quote
Originally posted by kasperl
oh?

I'd like a linky to that.....



IIRC Nico/Venom made Comet to OTT but he never didn't Release it
Title: High poly asteroids wanted
Post by: Ryx on April 04, 2004, 08:37:33 am
(http://www.swooh.com/peon/Angelo/Images/asteroid/ast-t.jpg) (http://www.swooh.com/peon/Angelo/Images/asteroid/ast.jpg)
(http://www.swooh.com/peon/Angelo/Images/asteroid/ast-view-t.jpg) (http://www.swooh.com/peon/Angelo/Images/asteroid/ast-view.jpg)

Something like that?

I think that polycount should be kept down somewhat, due to the number of asteroids present on screen.

Edit: Same asteroid with LODs.
Title: High poly asteroids wanted
Post by: adwight on April 04, 2004, 11:31:56 pm
Those look great, I really like them.  The top one is alot better than the bottom one is imo though...(unless they are the same asteroid, in that case, shoot me).
Title: High poly asteroids wanted
Post by: Bobboau on April 05, 2004, 12:06:57 am
um... high poly?
Title: High poly asteroids wanted
Post by: Lt.Cannonfodder on April 05, 2004, 12:09:09 am
Quote
Originally posted by Bobboau
um... high poly?
Title: High poly asteroids wanted
Post by: kasperl on April 05, 2004, 05:03:41 am
i think the angles are too sharp, try rounding it all off a bit.
Title: High poly asteroids wanted
Post by: c914 on April 05, 2004, 05:48:05 am
those asteroids could be more smothes
Title: High poly asteroids wanted
Post by: Fineus on April 05, 2004, 06:55:49 am
This probably needs experimenting with though - if youve ten asteriods on screen you're fine, but if you have a hundred, all with hi-poly counts - as well as ships of the calibre Omniscaper has released - you start to run into problems.
Title: High poly asteroids wanted
Post by: kasperl on April 05, 2004, 07:02:29 am
well, yeah, but just getting a bit better 'roids would already help a lot.

and a few remaps would be nice too, and creating more variety would be very  nice.

and off course, trying to give some of them particle trails somehow......
Title: High poly asteroids wanted
Post by: Lightspeed on April 05, 2004, 10:02:58 am
and of course, everyone forgot about LODs again...
Title: High poly asteroids wanted
Post by: Ryx on April 05, 2004, 11:18:04 am
Btw the pics are of the same asteroid with LODs.

I like the  rocks rough. Afterall, there's no erosion in space, right?
Title: High poly asteroids wanted
Post by: Fineus on April 05, 2004, 11:23:19 am
True, but there's rough and there's angular. Let me dig up an illustration of what would be neat as far as asteriods go....
Title: High poly asteroids wanted
Post by: Fineus on April 05, 2004, 11:27:59 am
(http://www.zen8740.zen.co.uk/prot.jpg)

Ok here we go, as you can see the rocks in this image (not mine.. duh) may well be smoothed off - but are still fairly angular. I'm not saying I expect completely rounded off surfaces - but the long, flat lines of the current generations of rocks (like the low LOD ones in your images) look much worse.

However the high LOD versions of yours are very good.
Title: High poly asteroids wanted
Post by: kasperl on April 05, 2004, 11:35:44 am
some of that might be done with very creative specmappong, perhaps......
Title: High poly asteroids wanted
Post by: diamondgeezer on April 05, 2004, 11:36:20 am
You'll get well-rounded stuff - fine-scale erosion is due to micro-meteorite impacts. Observe:

(http://static.howstuffworks.com/gif/asteroid-nasa-gaspra1.gif)

(courtesy of NASA)

Glad to see someone working on it, though - I was all set to bump this thread tonight :D I'd rally like to see those babies rounded off some, Ryx :nod:
Title: High poly asteroids wanted
Post by: Ryx on April 05, 2004, 01:31:33 pm
Rounding off, it is. :)
Title: High poly asteroids wanted
Post by: aldo_14 on April 05, 2004, 01:45:05 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Kalfireth
(http://www.zen8740.zen.co.uk/prot.jpg)
 


I really must remember to rip off that design someday.........
Title: High poly asteroids wanted
Post by: Flipside on April 05, 2004, 08:15:57 pm
Well, I sort of get this effect.,...

(http://www.aqsx85.dsl.pipex.com/Ast01.jpg)

(http://www.aqsx85.dsl.pipex.com/Ast02.jpg)

This is a 2 hour throwtegether jobby, so it could look better, but I can have a crack at the standard solid FS2 ones :)

That's 250 polys, which I reckon is about the maximum you could need, you don't want to waste too many polygons on them. Biggish textures though, 1024 x 1024.

Flipside :D
Title: High poly asteroids wanted
Post by: Lt.Cannonfodder on April 05, 2004, 10:52:35 pm
That's definately much, much better than the originals :nod:
Title: High poly asteroids wanted
Post by: karajorma on April 06, 2004, 02:46:27 am
:yes: A huge improvement.
Title: High poly asteroids wanted
Post by: Fineus on April 06, 2004, 03:11:23 am
Agreed, now make thousands of them for variety ;)
Title: High poly asteroids wanted
Post by: c914 on April 06, 2004, 03:13:44 am
Those one are realy good:yes: . Now they almoast look like real asteroids almoast becouse they need craters
Title: High poly asteroids wanted
Post by: Nico on April 06, 2004, 03:22:16 am
Funny, thry look like the roids in Eve :)
Title: High poly asteroids wanted
Post by: JarC on April 06, 2004, 03:25:55 am
Quote
Originally posted by Ryx
Btw the pics are of the same asteroid with LODs.

I like the  rocks rough. Afterall, there's no erosion in space, right?
BUZZZZ! wrong answer, erosion is even higher since there's no atmosphere to burn up the spacedust...and it is just the little particles which would erode the surface of an asteroid the most...especially since an asteroidfield/ring usually has lots of dust floating around in it...
Title: High poly asteroids wanted
Post by: Nico on April 06, 2004, 03:33:24 am
Quote
Originally posted by JarC
especially since an asteroidfield/ring usually has lots of dust floating around in it...


Asteroid fields as scene in movies or games, technically, don't exist :doubt:
The roids in a roid field are usually hundreds of kilometers aparts. I highly doubt there's a lot of dust there. So let's not go into scientific details when talking about roids, shall we? ;)
I think round roids are boring, btw.
Title: High poly asteroids wanted
Post by: JarC on April 06, 2004, 04:08:59 am
think relative...when I say 'lots of dust' I do not ofcourse mean you can swipe a finger over a ledge to see it...but without atmosphere the effect is the same as sandblasting...
Title: High poly asteroids wanted
Post by: Nico on April 06, 2004, 04:16:15 am
I doubt it, or else the roids would be long gone :)
Title: High poly asteroids wanted
Post by: kasperl on April 06, 2004, 05:13:29 am
Quote
Originally posted by Flipside
Well, I sort of get this effect.,...

Ast01.jpg

Ast02.jpg

This is a 2 hour throwtegether jobby, so it could look better, but I can have a crack at the standard solid FS2 ones :)

That's 250 polys, which I reckon is about the maximum you could need, you don't want to waste too many polygons on them. Biggish textures though, 1024 x 1024.

Flipside :D


now that's a way to use shinemaps!

would you mind uploading/contributing those to FSCZ?

also, what kind of performance drain do you get with a full field of em?
and is this one map, or multiple?
Title: High poly asteroids wanted
Post by: Ryx on April 06, 2004, 06:59:09 am
(http://www.swooh.com/peon/Angelo/Images/asteroid/ast02-t.jpg)  (http://www.swooh.com/peon/Angelo/Images/asteroid/ast02.jpg)

Quick and ugly(?). Just slapped on a meshmooth on there. As you can see polycount went up quite a bit. As befor LODs on the sides.

Now you got high-poly asteroids. :p
Title: High poly asteroids wanted
Post by: Fineus on April 06, 2004, 07:02:53 am
...Perfect! :eek: That's exactly the kind of look I was talking about. Congratulations sir on a job well done!!
Title: High poly asteroids wanted
Post by: Setekh on April 06, 2004, 07:03:08 am
That's an improvement. How many polys have they moved up to now?
Title: High poly asteroids wanted
Post by: Fineus on April 06, 2004, 07:05:39 am
960 is apparently the highest poly LOD there is. I wonder how they run in game...
Title: High poly asteroids wanted
Post by: kasperl on April 06, 2004, 07:12:23 am
960 sounds pretty damn lethal.

i like Flipsides idea of just using the new maps given by the SCP guys a lot better, IMO.
Title: High poly asteroids wanted
Post by: Fineus on April 06, 2004, 08:17:55 am
Whatever suits everyone best I guess, I'm happy with either method so long as the angles are gone - the current rocks look like they were cut using some kind of laser or power tool...
Title: High poly asteroids wanted
Post by: Rictor on April 06, 2004, 09:04:07 am
I like this, but could you maybe do something to make the texures look like the old ones? On the screens Flipside posted, the new asteroids were all smooth and matte. I like how the old asteroids were highly reflective. I may or may not be right, probably not, but aren't asteroids made up mostly of ice and space-junk. Ice would tend to reflect, no? Well, my point is it just looks plain cool. I like the ones  Ryx  posted, its an improvement over Flipside's version (sorry, but it is). Keep it up, hopefully this won't seriously affect FPS.
Title: High poly asteroids wanted
Post by: Ryx on April 06, 2004, 09:19:50 am
Quote
Originally posted by kasperl
960 sounds pretty damn lethal.

i like Flipsides idea of just using the new maps given by the SCP guys a lot better, IMO.


The current  polycount goes:
LOD0 = 960
LOD1 = 141
LOD2 = 41


Perhaps this sharp drop in polycount could make things better?

And Flip's spec map (great work :yes: )could be used here, as well.
Title: High poly asteroids wanted
Post by: kasperl on April 06, 2004, 09:29:16 am
Quote
Originally posted by Rictor
I like this, but could you maybe do something to make the texures look like the old ones? On the screens Flipside posted, the new asteroids were all smooth and matte. I like how the old asteroids were highly reflective. I may or may not be right, probably not, but aren't asteroids made up mostly of ice and space-junk. Ice would tend to reflect, no? Well, my point is it just looks plain cool. I like the ones  Ryx  posted, its an improvement over Flipside's version (sorry, but it is). Keep it up, hopefully this won't seriously affect FPS.


i really, really don't like the shiny. if you look at the pictures from NASA, the stuff is all matte.
Title: High poly asteroids wanted
Post by: Flipside on April 06, 2004, 11:51:06 am
Well, I can throw these together pretty quick, it's a procedural material, so that shouldn't be too hard. I suppose what would be best is for us to do several different 'styles' of asteroid and mix and match them :)

960 Polys shouldn't be too bad as long as there are not too many on screen, but I kept to 250 because I plan to have some quite thick asteroid fields.

It's a single 1024 map for the main LOD, and it's DDS for memory saving. I'll throw some LODS on it, and re-render the textures up a bit better and make an asteroid available for dload tonight :)

Also, it should be noted that most asteroid ARE smooth. Call up Phobos and Deimos, the captured Mars 'moons'. They are the closest asteroids to Earth, and are pretty big, so there are good images of them. You'll see that they are pretty much smooth with a few fresh craters. If asteroids are cratered, they tend to be cratered only on one side, the side facing away from the Sun, since it is hit by small particles of matter being drawn in by the Sun's gravity.
Title: High poly asteroids wanted
Post by: KARMA on April 06, 2004, 12:04:03 pm
actually I prefer the asteroids in the precedent images
Title: High poly asteroids wanted
Post by: Nico on April 06, 2004, 01:13:16 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Flipside
960 Polys shouldn't be too bad as long as there are not too many on screen, but I kept to 250 because I plan to have some quite thick asteroid fields.


Ditto, I prefer loads of lower poly roids rather than a few high poly ones.
Title: High poly asteroids wanted
Post by: kasperl on April 06, 2004, 01:15:18 pm
you just said your maps were procedurals. could you map a few asteroids with it? and could you create a few different maps per 'roid to prevent repatetiveness?
Title: High poly asteroids wanted
Post by: Turambar on April 06, 2004, 01:39:08 pm
just throw the asteroids in a pack and be done with it!
Title: High poly asteroids wanted
Post by: JarC on April 06, 2004, 02:19:26 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Nico
I doubt it, or else the roids would be long gone :)
all black and white with you uh? ;)

go here http://www.nineplanets.org/asteroids.html

as I said...sandblasted...
Title: High poly asteroids wanted
Post by: diamondgeezer on April 06, 2004, 02:46:46 pm
They'd definitely want some small craters in them if poss - micro craters can be simulated with good mapping :nod:

Regarding the specularity, remember that the surface of a 'stroid is rough as hell due to micro-pitting. There is no way in hell it will reflect light. Bare minimum specularity, please :nod:

Ryx, you versions are oddly shaped - collisions mean you don't see big limbs sticking out like that
Title: High poly asteroids wanted
Post by: Ryx on April 06, 2004, 03:19:23 pm
I'll redo 'em tomorrow.

With a lower polycount. :p
Title: High poly asteroids wanted
Post by: Flipside on April 06, 2004, 04:15:20 pm
Dammit! I buggered up the Lods on that one :( Reminder to self, Do not start altering points on Lod 0 after you've made Lod 1 :(

Ah well, they don't take long :) Allegedly :)
Title: High poly asteroids wanted
Post by: Flaser on April 06, 2004, 04:27:25 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Nico


Asteroid fields as scene in movies or games, technically, don't exist :doubt:
The roids in a roid field are usually hundreds of kilometers aparts. I highly doubt there's a lot of dust there. So let's not go into scientific details when talking about roids, shall we? ;)
I think round roids are boring, btw.


Ever watched Marcross DYRL? They actually have it right - ever flown through the rings of a gas giant?
Title: High poly asteroids wanted
Post by: Lightspeed on April 06, 2004, 04:37:25 pm
do some asteroid-shaped ones :)
Title: High poly asteroids wanted
Post by: Flipside on April 06, 2004, 04:53:52 pm
http://www.aqsx85.dsl.pipex.com/Ast01.zip

Ok, well I promised you one this evening, so there you go :)

Flipside :D

Hmmmm... 40 mins, I'm getting faster at these ;)
Title: High poly asteroids wanted
Post by: Nico on April 06, 2004, 04:55:21 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Flaser


Ever watched Marcross DYRL? They actually have it right - ever flown through the rings of a gas giant?


many times. but an ice ring isn't an asteroid field, and still, I doubt there's all those groovy columns of dust ( snow? ) in the rings of Saturn :p
Title: High poly asteroids wanted
Post by: Turambar on April 06, 2004, 06:00:06 pm
Yes, but do they replace the in-game 'roids?
Title: High poly asteroids wanted
Post by: Flipside on April 06, 2004, 06:20:03 pm
Yes, just put the dds files in your data/maps directory and the model in your data/models directory and it will replace Ast01.pof from the VP file.
Title: High poly asteroids wanted
Post by: Trivial Psychic on April 06, 2004, 10:58:49 pm
I think pitted versions of the smooth asteroids would be better for full-sized asteroids, but then have it split into the jagged ones if its destroyed.  It'd also be cool if there was a brief shower of dust when an asteroid is blown up, eminating from the split-point.  This is due to the fact that most asteroids would have build up a powdery surface coating over the billions of years they've been floating around.

Later!
Title: High poly asteroids wanted
Post by: Starks on April 07, 2004, 12:38:26 am
Screenies plz!
Title: High poly asteroids wanted
Post by: Flipside on April 07, 2004, 02:59:27 pm
Well, it seems to me that the best way of doing this would be for each of us to produce, say, three asteroids each. That way you'll get a mixture of styles and shapes which would help make the asteroids look different from each other :)
Title: High poly asteroids wanted
Post by: Fineus on April 07, 2004, 03:11:57 pm
Quote
Originally posted by LLivingLarge
Screenies plz!

In game shots are on the way...
Title: High poly asteroids wanted
Post by: kasperl on April 07, 2004, 03:19:51 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Flipside
Well, it seems to me that the best way of doing this would be for each of us to produce, say, three asteroids each. That way you'll get a mixture of styles and shapes which would help make the asteroids look different from each other :)


:yes: :yes: :yes:

does anybody know if there is a max number of roids in the table?
Title: High poly asteroids wanted
Post by: Unknown Target on April 07, 2004, 04:01:31 pm
If everyone does three roids, what are the poly limits we should follow?
Title: High poly asteroids wanted
Post by: Fineus on April 07, 2004, 04:04:44 pm
Okeydokie, here we go:

(http://www.zen8740.zen.co.uk/ast/ast0.jpg)

http://www.zen8740.zen.co.uk/ast/ast1.jpg
http://www.zen8740.zen.co.uk/ast/ast2.jpg
http://www.zen8740.zen.co.uk/ast/ast3.jpg
http://www.zen8740.zen.co.uk/ast/ast4.jpg

Please note I've had a little trouble tweaking the HTL settings for FS2 recently, getting the most recent build etc running - so some of the shots don't look their best. It also means the FPS went to ****e so don't take it as a reliable indication of performance. I think they look pretty darn impressive!
Title: High poly asteroids wanted
Post by: Unknown Target on April 07, 2004, 04:08:08 pm
Oh...my...God...

*orgasm* :D
Title: High poly asteroids wanted
Post by: Flipside on April 07, 2004, 04:24:38 pm
Well, I think really high poly asteroids should be single models, and be used as a feature of a game, for example for a destroyed planet you could use one enormous asteroid (model) surrounded by loads of little ones (field).

Id personally say max polys for a standard Asteroid is 300. This would mean that, for example, being within LOD0 range of 10 of them would still only use up 3000 polys, and the odds of being within LOD0 range with 10 asteroids on screen at once is pretty slim, so this shouldn't tax the game too much, and give the CPU/GCard more time for glows, specs, e-mapping etc ;)
Title: High poly asteroids wanted
Post by: Rictor on April 07, 2004, 04:51:03 pm
woot woot

:yes: :yes:

That background especially looks nice with the asteroids, its not that sort of brownish quality to it,
Title: High poly asteroids wanted
Post by: phreak on April 07, 2004, 04:58:57 pm
if you have 250 asteroids at 1000 polies each thats 250,000 polies for a frame or 7.5 million per second if FPS=30

whats the max triangles per second can a radeon 7000/GF2 handle
Title: High poly asteroids wanted
Post by: Fineus on April 07, 2004, 05:21:27 pm
I'm not sure about the numbers - but here's some proof that even with 200 asteroids on screen, not to mention high res textures etc, things don't slow down...

(http://www.zen8740.zen.co.uk/ast/ast5.jpg)

http://www.zen8740.zen.co.uk/ast/ast6.jpg
http://www.zen8740.zen.co.uk/ast/ast7.jpg
http://www.zen8740.zen.co.uk/ast/ast8.jpg
http://www.zen8740.zen.co.uk/ast/ast9.jpg
Title: High poly asteroids wanted
Post by: StratComm on April 07, 2004, 05:58:17 pm
So now we need the ability to define asteroid fields as regions instead of the trivial cubic clump.  Even if it's of a fixed depth (that can be set, of course) but defined by some non-rectangular shape (see Freelancer localized nebs/fields) the posibilities would be vastly greater than they are now.
Title: High poly asteroids wanted
Post by: Rictor on April 07, 2004, 05:59:40 pm
Why are they blue? For that matter, why ios the ambience blue?

I see a red/yellow nebula in the background, but little blue anywhere.

But it looks swanky nevertheless
Title: High poly asteroids wanted
Post by: Fineus on April 07, 2004, 06:01:09 pm
Because I didn't have the blue nebula pack installed at the time :doubt: I know, should've done it. My bad.
Title: High poly asteroids wanted
Post by: Ace on April 07, 2004, 06:18:25 pm
Looks good Kal/Thunder.

My suggestion on the maps for those rocks: Have a bit of the original FS2 maps added into these ones. The shine map being just the new stuff, none of the old maps in that.

It'd add a little color and texture so they look good even without ambient lighting, as well as seem more FSish.
Title: High poly asteroids wanted
Post by: Flipside on April 07, 2004, 06:55:17 pm
Ok, heres Ast02.pof with textures. I think I've done a wee bit better on this one, even if it is still pretty low-poly (bout 180 I think). I used a grey/red light to colour the rocks on this one slightly, just for a change, it doesn't show much, but then it shouldn't :)

http://www.aqsx85.dsl.pipex.com/Ast2.zip

(http://www.aqsx85.dsl.pipex.com/ast03.jpg)

Theres a Red sun in that mission btw, don't worry, my colour vision isn't THAT bad ;)
Title: High poly asteroids wanted
Post by: kasperl on April 08, 2004, 05:53:39 am
goodie goodie.

FSCZ might just become a collection of SCP features, but it'd sure give some nice screenies!
Title: High poly asteroids wanted
Post by: Unknown Target on April 08, 2004, 06:47:08 am
Awesomeeee...
Me wants! :)
Title: High poly asteroids wanted
Post by: Fineus on April 08, 2004, 06:54:24 am
I've just had a thought regarding textures / colors on asteriods.. we might want to take a page out of Terragens books with this... generally their default textures are a little grainy.. adding to that rock feel. I'm not saying go over the top - but things feel a bit smooth and perhaps even bright at the moment. I may well play with this myself but it's something to bear in mind.
Title: High poly asteroids wanted
Post by: Flipside on April 08, 2004, 11:23:45 am
Hmmm.... You're right Kalf, possibly using Photoshop to add some grain to the texture would help. I've got a few other ideas as well, but I'll see what can be done tonight :)

Edit : Remember that once bump mapping is implemented in post 3.6 (if), this will also do massive amounts to enhance the asteroids :)
Title: High poly asteroids wanted
Post by: Raptor on April 08, 2004, 01:24:09 pm
Looks pretty good Flipside, but do you think you could release the maps in something else (or as well as) DDS format?

Just a thought for those people who can't read/see DDS images (like me)
Title: High poly asteroids wanted
Post by: Flipside on April 08, 2004, 01:28:37 pm
Hmmmmmmmmmmm... I can do that no probs Raptor, what Graphics Card are you using, I thought just about everything could read DDS? I'll post them up later tonight :)
Title: High poly asteroids wanted
Post by: Raptor on April 08, 2004, 01:34:25 pm
GeForce FX 5200 matey.

It most likely can read DDS, I just never before had need, knowing my luck...:rolleyes:

To be fair, I've only encountered this .DDS format when Omni did those Earth/Mars skyboxes.  Never heard of them before.

Add to that that Paint Shop Pro 7 won't open then (most likely there is an update floating around somewhere), and PofVeiw dosn't support them...
Title: High poly asteroids wanted
Post by: Flipside on April 08, 2004, 02:20:40 pm
Ok, PofView won't read any 32bit textures. I'm assuming jpg or tga work ok on your system?

There IS a plugin that will allow you to open the DDS files, theres a link on the forum somewhere. :)
Title: In case he can't be bothered to search for it...
Post by: Gregster2k on April 08, 2004, 07:50:12 pm
http://developer.nvidia.com/object/nv_texture_tools.html
*activates subspace drive*
Title: High poly asteroids wanted
Post by: Raptor on April 09, 2004, 06:46:17 am
Oh yes, .jpg and .tga work alright...

Thanks Gregster2k, I'll poke around there in a little bit (got to check out the other threads here!)
Title: High poly asteroids wanted
Post by: JarC on April 09, 2004, 07:17:06 am
shucks :) beat me to it...
Title: High poly asteroids wanted
Post by: Flipside on April 09, 2004, 08:00:39 am
No probs, off out now, but I'll get the images done tonight, I may well also have a third asteroid if I can escape the rellies long enough to surface bake it ;)
Title: High poly asteroids wanted
Post by: Ryx on April 09, 2004, 09:14:18 am
As Flipside is doin' a great job with this, should I even bother?
Title: High poly asteroids wanted
Post by: StratComm on April 09, 2004, 09:17:09 am
I'd say that since there are something like 5 distinct fields defined for default FS2, go for it.  A little variety won't hurt anything.
Title: High poly asteroids wanted
Post by: Taristin on April 09, 2004, 09:18:04 am
Yes.  Variety!  It's aweful when everything is made by one person. It's done in their vision only.
Title: High poly asteroids wanted
Post by: Flipside on April 09, 2004, 09:58:30 am
I think you should Ryx, we need lots of different styles of asteroid, mine look ok, but too many on screen and they will start to look to 'samey', it'd be better to have lots of different styles of asteroid :)
Title: High poly asteroids wanted
Post by: Setekh on April 09, 2004, 10:00:18 am
Quote
Originally posted by Raa Tor'h
Yes.  Variety!  It's aweful when everything is made by one person. It's done in their vision only.


Hit the nail on the head, IMHO. Go for it, Ryx. :nod:
Title: High poly asteroids wanted
Post by: Flipside on April 09, 2004, 11:09:37 am
http://www.aqsx85.dsl.pipex.com/AstJpg.zip

Jpeg textures for thems that need 'em :)
Title: High poly asteroids wanted
Post by: Ryx on April 09, 2004, 11:15:53 am
ok. The new one I started on looks more like those 'roids from the NASA pics than before.  polycount is less than 250. pics later. :p
Title: High poly asteroids wanted
Post by: Ryx on April 11, 2004, 12:49:15 pm
(http://www.swooh.com/peon/Angelo/Images/asteroid/ast03.jpg)

240 polys
Title: High poly asteroids wanted
Post by: kasperl on April 11, 2004, 01:28:56 pm
polycount? it seems rather reasonable use of poly's, i like it so far.
Title: High poly asteroids wanted
Post by: Taristin on April 11, 2004, 05:50:20 pm
He said: 240 polies
Title: High poly asteroids wanted
Post by: Lightspeed on April 11, 2004, 07:09:30 pm
Flipside: Your models rock, but the textures aren't really good.

Mind if I have a go at them? :D
Title: High poly asteroids wanted
Post by: Flipside on April 11, 2004, 07:40:59 pm
By all means :) Though I've worked out a new render technique that might improve matters a bit, that texture was really just a throw-together :)
Title: High poly asteroids wanted
Post by: Sandwich on April 11, 2004, 07:43:19 pm
*ahem*


Watch this spot. :D
Title: High poly asteroids wanted
Post by: Sandwich on April 11, 2004, 09:41:32 pm
Ok, here it is: Sandwich's Asteroid Factory (http://www.brainzipper.com/fs2/files/asteroid_factory.zip)! (698kb)

This is a MAX 5 file with a few goodies. Read the readme for details, but suffice it to say that I created all the asteroids you see in the pictures below from one base asteroid, non-destructively, in about 5 minutes. ;7


"LOD3" - 60 polygons per asteroid:
(http://www.brainzipper.com/fs2/files/sample-lod3.jpg)


"LOD2" - 240 polygons per asteroid:
(http://www.brainzipper.com/fs2/files/sample-lod2.jpg)


"LOD1" - 960 polygons per asteroid:
(http://www.brainzipper.com/fs2/files/sample-lod1.jpg)


"LOD0" - 3840 polygons per asteroid:
(http://www.brainzipper.com/fs2/files/sample-lod0.jpg)


:D
Title: High poly asteroids wanted
Post by: Rictor on April 11, 2004, 09:52:43 pm
Woot.

If only we could use the LOD0 ones, that would be so awesome. But, they're a *little* high poly. :D:D

Nice work though. You too Ryx. This should give us sufficient variety for some truly great asteroid fields.
Title: High poly asteroids wanted
Post by: Setekh on April 12, 2004, 12:53:19 am
Sandwich, those are way nice!

Hmmm, I wonder if I should go out with my V1 (you too, Sandwich) and get some rock textures for you folk. ;)
Title: High poly asteroids wanted
Post by: Fineus on April 12, 2004, 04:51:32 am
Oh I think you should :nod: those deserve it... excellent stuff!
Title: High poly asteroids wanted
Post by: Sandwich on April 12, 2004, 05:02:38 am
Jerusalem stone asteroids? :lol:
Title: High poly asteroids wanted
Post by: kasperl on April 12, 2004, 05:21:04 am
sandwich, that is absolutely fabulous.
Title: High poly asteroids wanted
Post by: Gloriano on April 12, 2004, 05:31:38 am
Very cool stuff Sandwich :cool: :yes:
Title: High poly asteroids wanted
Post by: Nico on April 12, 2004, 05:31:48 am
that's absolutly overdone as well, but that's beyond the point :p
Title: High poly asteroids wanted
Post by: Sandwich on April 12, 2004, 11:01:09 am
:D This has, of course, sent me on another bout of making another asteroid base. :p
Title: High poly asteroids wanted
Post by: kasperl on April 12, 2004, 11:21:35 am
i would like one of those for FSCZ. or more then one....
Title: High poly asteroids wanted
Post by: Flaser on April 12, 2004, 11:50:17 am
If the LOD distances could be tweaked more - in a table for instance - than even such high poly asteroids wouldn't be a problem.
Title: High poly asteroids wanted
Post by: Sandwich on April 12, 2004, 06:17:54 pm
Uhhh... they ARE table-based, aren't they? Or are the LODs for asteroid fields defined in different locations from the LODs for ships and such?
Title: High poly asteroids wanted
Post by: Flipside on April 12, 2004, 07:07:38 pm
It's true that lod jumping is very noticeable on Asteroids, but I don't know where it is adjusted :(

Ok, I've been playing with textures and come up with a pretty nice Ice Asteroid, I might work more along this theme for now to give things a bit of variation :)

(http://www.aqsx85.dsl.pipex.com/Iast01.jpg)

http://www.aqsx85.dsl.pipex.com/IceAst01.zip
Title: High poly asteroids wanted
Post by: Turambar on April 12, 2004, 08:27:12 pm
now make more good ones that replace the ones in-game!
Title: High poly asteroids wanted
Post by: Black Wolf on April 13, 2004, 02:30:29 am
Nicely. We need big asteroids - the FS ones are all piddly little ones of a few meters across, whereas there are thousands of >1km asteroids in the belt (And yes, I know FSes asteroid belts aren't realistic). Though, err... will big roids mess up the way FS places them?

Sandwiches are good too, but I think just a little high poly for something that'll have 255 in the play area at any given time.
Title: High poly asteroids wanted
Post by: Goober5000 on April 13, 2004, 02:40:07 am
Quote
Originally posted by Black Wolf
Sandwiches are good too, but I think just a little high poly for something that'll have 255 in the play area at any given time.
:lol: A field of sandwiches! :lol:

(Remember that 's is the possessive, while s or es is the plural. ;))
Title: High poly asteroids wanted
Post by: Black Wolf on April 13, 2004, 02:54:35 am
What? Sandwiches are good :D
Title: High poly asteroids wanted
Post by: Nico on April 13, 2004, 03:06:12 am
And collsions with them doesn't hurt, they're all puni puni :p
Title: High poly asteroids wanted
Post by: karajorma on April 13, 2004, 05:26:52 am
Quote
Originally posted by Black Wolf
Nicely. We need big asteroids - the FS ones are all piddly little ones of a few meters across, whereas there are thousands of >1km asteroids in the belt (And yes, I know FSes asteroid belts aren't realistic). Though, err... will big roids mess up the way FS places them?  


Big roids should be placed manually. Solves the problems that way.
Title: High poly asteroids wanted
Post by: Sandwich on April 13, 2004, 04:07:33 pm
IIRC asteroids have some sort of "never collide with other 'roids" tag, but since that happens so rarely, you hardly ever notice it. But a large asteroid that's considered part of the field might make it quite noticable.
Title: High poly asteroids wanted
Post by: kasperl on April 14, 2004, 02:45:30 am
then place the large one as a ship, give it some more hitpoints and destroyable subsystems with their own debris too. that way you can shoot bits off from it, and it won't become a big cloud of gravel when it get's hit with a small laser.
Title: High poly asteroids wanted
Post by: Setekh on April 14, 2004, 08:59:14 am
Quote
Originally posted by Sandwich
Jerusalem stone asteroids? :lol:


:lol:

If all of the hi-poly asteroids in the future end up looking like they came from Israel or Australia, we'll know why. ;)
Title: High poly asteroids wanted
Post by: Manic on May 03, 2004, 05:58:01 pm
Hmm... Perhaps making Sandwich's 'roids massive, yet rare(one or two in viewable area) would be in order? This way, it wouldn't kill the framerate, too much... and if someone could figure out how to turn off the blasted "asteroids cannot hit each other" thing... yum.
Title: High poly asteroids wanted
Post by: WMCoolmon on May 03, 2004, 07:36:10 pm
Sandwich-I like your 'roids but I don't have .MAX or 3DEX, or a clue how to UVmap. :nervous:

Any chance you could convert them to .cob, or POF? :)
Title: High poly asteroids wanted
Post by: Turambar on May 04, 2004, 02:19:45 pm
we want standardized good-looking asteroid packs!

And an Inferno-compatible one too!
Title: High poly asteroids wanted
Post by: Sandwich on May 04, 2004, 05:07:14 pm
Quote
Originally posted by WMCoolmon
Sandwich-I like your 'roids but I don't have .MAX or 3DEX, or a clue how to UVmap. :nervous:

Any chance you could convert them to .cob, or POF? :)


Not really, but that's why I put them up for download. Anyone can have a go at them. :)
Title: High poly asteroids wanted
Post by: Flipside on May 04, 2004, 05:40:25 pm
It's like making ships, only much much easier ;) And a breeze to texture too! Just don't pebbledash 'em ;)

Flipside :D
Title: High poly asteroids wanted
Post by: Taristin on May 04, 2004, 09:07:26 pm
Quote
Originally posted by WMCoolmon
Sandwich-I like your 'roids but I don't have .MAX or 3DEX, or a clue how to UVmap. :nervous:

Any chance you could convert them to .cob, or POF? :)


If you have TrueSpace, it may be possible for you to load the 3ds file.
Title: High poly asteroids wanted
Post by: DaBrain on May 06, 2004, 05:07:08 am
Take the asteroid in LOD0 and use it for an animation.

Let it rotate around itself and save it in seperate images.

And we have a ... super new debris ani.

Which was one of the ugliest parts of Freespace.
Title: High poly asteroids wanted
Post by: Sandwich on May 06, 2004, 09:53:54 am
Quote
Originally posted by DaBrain
Take the asteroid in LOD0 and use it for an animation.

Let it rotate around itself and save it in seperate images.

And we have a ... super new debris ani.

Which was one of the ugliest parts of Freespace.


Ooh, I like!
Title: High poly asteroids wanted
Post by: DaBrain on May 08, 2004, 08:05:50 am
I can create the ani, if you send me the images.
Title: High poly asteroids wanted
Post by: Sandwich on May 08, 2004, 05:42:49 pm
1.7Mb, 36 frames, 24-bit PNGs:

http://www.3dap.com/hlp/staff/sandwich/debris01.zip

Currently it's a boring single-axis rotation. If someone wants any better, they can download the Asteroid Factory file and do it themselves! :p
Title: High poly asteroids wanted
Post by: Turambar on May 08, 2004, 06:09:22 pm
screenies please!
Title: High poly asteroids wanted
Post by: Deepblue on May 09, 2004, 12:46:21 am
Badabing (http://www.freewebs.com/expeditions/debris01.rar)
Someone d/l and take screenies ingame.
Title: High poly asteroids wanted
Post by: Bobboau on May 09, 2004, 01:15:13 am
power of two damn it!
it's especaly important in animations
Title: High poly asteroids wanted
Post by: Deepblue on May 09, 2004, 01:32:21 am
Give the sizes of the original effects then.
Title: High poly asteroids wanted
Post by: DaBrain on May 09, 2004, 05:11:50 am
WOW !!!

This is great.
Title: High poly asteroids wanted
Post by: Turambar on May 09, 2004, 05:30:03 am
where do i put the files?
Title: High poly asteroids wanted
Post by: DaBrain on May 09, 2004, 05:59:51 am
Quote
Originally posted by Turambar
where do i put the files?


In the /effects folder.

But you only need 1 file of them.
Title: High poly asteroids wanted
Post by: Turambar on May 09, 2004, 09:22:51 am
theres an issue, the nice pretty rocks are there, but the old ones are there too
Edit: and they're even uglier when theyre next to the good ones
Title: High poly asteroids wanted
Post by: DaBrain on May 09, 2004, 09:49:32 am
That's because there are 4 different debris anis.

Only one was replaced.
Title: High poly asteroids wanted
Post by: Flipside on May 09, 2004, 10:18:38 am
So far.... I will get around to finishing some more asteroids one day :)