Hard Light Productions Forums
Modding, Mission Design, and Coding => FS2 Open Coding - The Source Code Project (SCP) => Topic started by: Bobboau on March 01, 2004, 11:41:10 am
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posting this here becase so many of you don't visit FSO forum enough
http://freespace.volitionwatch.com/blackwater/fs2_open_env.zip
play a mission,
post screens,
now :mad2:
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Scary... :nervous:
(http://server6.uploadit.org/files/DeepblueWA-wow..jpg)
Mmmmm.
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Give us a command line to tone down or disable ambient and we might be able to post something worthwhile. :nervous:
Ambient light KILLS this effects as this is a kind of 'ambient replacement' :rolleyes:
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I haven't noticed much difference, but I know this is supposed to look waaaay better. What exactly does it do?
If we kill ambient light, maybe I'll figure it out...
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Its reflection mapping. :rolleyes:
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Ahh...I can't see it much, but it's still an advancement.
*sides with Lightspeed in turning off the ambient lighting*
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do you know how many people were yelling at us for turning it off, (I agree with you BTW)
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Yeah, it's the same complaint as with the people who don't like it with too much specular mapping, and new thruster plumes, and stuff. "It's not FS anymore!" If we can set the ambience per mission, that will allow us to have an old-school version of the main FS2 campaign, that looks pants, and a kick-ass new version with all the bells and whistles. ;)
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Or we could set the option in the launcher, like the rest of the flags. :)
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Actually, I think I suggested that earlier. The "everything-on" will be in the next launcher, I guess. ;)
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WOW!!! I just tried it out. Very GLASSY!!! Mad kudos. One question though, does it refer to the specular maps to determine where it reflects? The white level perhaps of the specular map? I tried it with a Ulysseys and the nebula is reflecting on most of the ship. I'll have screen caps in a minute.
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it should be useing the spec map.
hey get some pics of your ships (well not your ships but... you know what I mean)
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Give me a minute, I'm on a slower computer. I am a spoilled little monkey. Never realized how slow my uncle's computer really was until I tried FSO with all the trimmings.
(http://www.penguinbomb.com/omniscaper/Screenshots/Env01.JPG)
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ok, last I'm going to touch of this till after 3.6, I added my trueform code into this and it makes everything just, oh so much better looking (too bad it also makes everything crash randomly for no reason)
use the comand line -max_subdivide 2.5 (2.5 can be a smaller or bigger number, that's just what I recomend for now)
it's the same file,just re-download
Omniscaper, you missed all the trueform fun last time didn't you? the way I have it set up it makes everything look like it was rendered useing pixel shaders, I'm not sure how well your ubberships will do with trueform, might want to tone the subdive value to 1.5 or 2
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AHHHH!!!! I must get back to my WORKSTATION!!!!! My ATI card is back there... ARRRRGH!!!!
::calm::
......
::freak out::
You made a believer out of me. Thanks to silly geniouses like yourself, I think FSO is gonna be the greatest modified game in existence!!!
(http://www.penguinbomb.com/omniscaper/Screenshots/Env02.JPG)
(http://www.penguinbomb.com/omniscaper/Screenshots/Env03.JPG)
(http://www.penguinbomb.com/omniscaper/Screenshots/Env04.JPG)
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I wonder if my ATI card is gonna take a performance hit. The FPS scares me a bit, but then again this computer I took the screenshots with is only a P4 2.56ghz 512 pc2100 with a lousy Geforce4MX 64mb
PS: I think your work will really shine (pun intended) with ambients toned down abit. I know its been said, but I insist that your compatriots should let you test your build out without ambient.
EDIT: I'll invert the speculars so that the windows without the light will use the env mapping.
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that shouldn't be that bright...
I'm thinking that might not be ambient light (there is a comand line for it some were BTW... -ambient_factor [some int])
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I think with your env mapping, ambient light wouldn't be necessary anymore. Or maybe a couple of notches above zero. I liked the fake shadow effect of no ambient. Unless selfshadowing can be implemented, no ambience would still be the best solution. Hell, ppl at the BridgeCommander modding community envy the lighting in the screenshots I've posted without the ambient, over BC's lighting.
What are the default settings for ambient anyway (for the environment map build)
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Much more dramatic!!! Gives Lightspeed's nebulas a more eerie mood.
(http://www.penguinbomb.com/omniscaper/Screenshots/Env05.JPG)
(http://www.penguinbomb.com/omniscaper/Screenshots/Env06.JPG)
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Now all FSO has left for model rendering are bump maps, perfected speculars and glows, then it will outshine Freelancer and EVE. Once env is perfected, do you suppose limited realtime reflections (like in Need for speed: Underground) would be considered?
BTW are env maps rendered the same as speculars? (per vertex)
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environment maps arn't realy a lighting thing, there sort of a cheat reflection, basicly you render a background image to a specal texture and then render that texture in a very specal way across the model, the end result of wich is it looks like a reflection, now it would be posable to render every ship in the sceen to the background image to be used per ship, but this would take a huge amound of power to do, I'm thinking maybe down the line I could implement something that would render one or two close objects for a few polys on a huge ship.
now that all said yes they are calculated per vertex, but there is no lighting going on, it's all UV coordanants being generated by the card based on the position and angle of each vertex and normal.
and looking at a few big ships in game, I'm thinking the background isn't getting put together quite right
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I too vote for no ambience (or at least low-ambience).
Having played through the main campaign twice with no ambience and only specular, I can say for sure that not only is it possible, it's better ;)
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I found that with "-ambient_factor 85" give the best balance of ambience to show off those EXCELLENT environment maps. Of course if there is nothing to reflect, the ambience level should be increased but I still prefer a low or none setting.
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you know we do have a build floating around here somewere with that glow effect you want, sticks did it called it overexposure
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Mind if I give it a go? Is your env mapping implemented on that too? I just would like to see what an uber sugered up FSO looks like.
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Btw, what kind of computer are you running this on Omni? I'm running a P3 1.33GHz + 256PC133 + GF4ti4200_128 and I get 85 FPS when looking at a single ship...
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no my stuf isn't in it, it was made quite a while ago, right after the first semi-stable HT&L build with a lighting model that worked. I'll see if I can find you a link to an EXE, though it might not be able to handle the ST ubberships (first generation of THL had a staticly allocated geometry buffer for models)
looks like an actual build was never posted.. sorry
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ChronoReverse, its my uncle's lousy Geforce4MX. Only got 64mb and I'm using Lightspeed's TGA's. I'll convert them to DDS but I doubt that will help. The fillrate of this card is just TOO low, ESPECIALLY with Bobboau's new environment maps.
Bobboau, thats a bummer, but I'd rather stick with your latest masterpiece. I guess transplant surgery is not a cut and paste procedure when it comes to code I assume.
In anycase this is absolutely STUNNING!!! Bobbaou, you could not have released your environment map build at a better time. Lightspeed's work COMPLIMENTS yours beautifully!!!
Long live the uber polished starships. Fresh out of the factory gloss!!!
(http://www.penguinbomb.com/omniscaper/Screenshots/Env07.JPG)
(http://www.penguinbomb.com/omniscaper/Screenshots/Env09.JPG)
All that glitters is gold!!! I made all specualars on the Excelsior white and got complete reflections (well,... psuedo reflections)
(http://www.penguinbomb.com/omniscaper/Screenshots/Env08.JPG)
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Spec(tac)ular! :D How did you get rid of the ambient light Omni?
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:eek:
I have nothing else to say. That's absolutely amazingly beautiful.
Now, release 3.6 and get all this to a stable build ;7
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That's really A1, but don't overdo the specmaps, don't wanna have FS2 suffer from the demo maker chrome syndrom.
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Capital work, bob! this is the best graphical improvement since specular highlights!
how buggy is this, btw?
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Originally posted by Omniscaper
Much more dramatic!!! Gives Lightspeed's nebulas a more eerie mood.
(http://www.penguinbomb.com/omniscaper/Screenshots/Env05.JPG)
Ohh ho-ho-holy crap! :eek2: :eek2:
This is going straight in the highlights once it's in a stable official build...
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1. The most recent environment map will be applied in the tech room.
2. The asteroids are shiny :doubt:
3. the artemis looks really neat :D
i had screenshots, but...no uploader :(
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Just two notes.
I've fired up Derelict with this new stuff and it looks AMAZING.
Remember the ice asteroids in the beginning? They are blue AND shiny like glass now. It looks great.
But normal asteroids need the specular turned off =/
The civilian blockade mission is now playable. I remember when I tried it on normal FS way back, it didn't work quite right ever.
@omni
Oh, poor you. But I know you have a Radeon somewhere right? :)
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Well not everyone has an uber Radeon card, and some have worse cards than that geforce 4. Is this only going to be for people who have tricked out computers or is it going to get efficient and run on lower end systems?
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Originally posted by Setekh
Yeah, it's the same complaint as with the people who don't like it with too much specular mapping, and new thruster plumes, and stuff. "It's not FS anymore!" If we can set the ambience per mission, that will allow us to have an old-school version of the main FS2 campaign, that looks pants, and a kick-ass new version with all the bells and whistles. ;)
I think a variable ambient setting would have even more uses than that--it would go great with skyboxes. An atmospheric mission in daytime would look kinda odd without near-fullbright ambient lighting.
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Definitely I think scaleability is the way forward for graphical enhancements. When Lightspeed first came out with some of the shine-maps I thought some of the ships looked really dodgy (no offence mate!) but with a little tweaking and what have you things are looking fine now, but thats only possible because the settings are adjustable.
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If you really want to make asteroid shine to go away, simply make its specualr map all black. I see only 3 texture: asteroid01a, asteroid01b, asteroid01c. Just make a blackimage and give it the same name and add "-shine" at the end of the name. Whats the big deal.
Unless you don't have Photoshop or other image editor, adjusting things like shine is a matter of changing an image's brightness and contrast.
Ambient can be adjusted like Bobboau said earlier by using the
"-ambient_factor x" just put a number where x is. It would be nice to be able to control it in Fred for mission control.
Must get back home SOON to test out this trueform thing. This computer is poop.
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Originally posted by Omniscaper
ChronoReverse, its my uncle's lousy Geforce4MX. Only got 64mb and I'm using Lightspeed's TGA's. I'll convert them to DDS but I doubt that will help. The fillrate of this card is just TOO low, ESPECIALLY with Bobboau's new environment maps.
Bobboau, thats a bummer, but I'd rather stick with your latest masterpiece. I guess transplant surgery is not a cut and paste procedure when it comes to code I assume.
All that glitters is gold!!! I made all specualars on the Excelsior white and got complete reflections (well,... psuedo reflections)
At least now you know how us poor people with no good computers feel, especially when we are presented with your ships but with no way to use em..........
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Originally posted by Omniscaper
If you really want to make asteroid shine to go away, simply make its specualr map all black.
Wrong. That way it will make them completely unlit....
you must tone the the brightness down, but not completely methinks...
Bobboau: Extror-****ing-nary work :D
here's a kiss: *mwha* ;7 ;7
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That'll be cool to test my new card on :D Just treated myself to a FX5600 256Mb :)
Bobb, those textures don't quite look 'right' on flat planes, they seem to adjust relative to the players distance more than angle of view?
Also, I've noticed that the Ambient Light setting does not appear to be being applied to subsystems, which are still rendering full brightness. Piccies available if needed :)
Flipside
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This may be a stupid thing to ask, but has anyone tried this build out with an in-nebula mission? Screens would be good if anything interesting worth posting results.
Later!
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Thanks for the command line.
I want ambient light, but I want a low multiplier :)
When you implement the FRED slider you can have the factor as a multiplier of the command line.
Command Line -> Ambient 0 = all missions will have no ambient
Command Line -> Ambient 50 = mission with an ambient multiplier of 0.5 will have Ambient factor of 25.
:)
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Some Screenies:
(http://www.penguinbomb.com/lightspeed/SCPTest/Ravanaprecious.jpg)
(http://www.penguinbomb.com/lightspeed/SCPTest/Ravanaprecious2.jpg)
Just look at them. They're soo pretty.
to quote myself:
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I LOVE THE NEW AMBIENT FACTOR!
I LOVE THE ENVIRONMENTAL MAPPING!
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Only worries: When turning on trueform it gets slow as hell -- with it turned off I don't seem to have any slowdowns at all. I'll do a proper performance test tomorrow.
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Now I'm annoyed. Why does it not look like that for me?
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Use this:
C:\Games\Freespace2\fs2_open_env.exe -spec -glow -pcx32 -jpgtga -fps -fov 0.39 -ambient_factor 75 -mod ReflectMist
:)
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The -ambient_factor 75 bit did it :)
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WHY ISN'T THIS IN THE HIGHLIGHTS!!!!
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I think Setekh said he's waiting for it to appear in appear in an official build (which will be after 3.6 =/ )
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Ummm what does -mod ReflectMist do?
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Originally posted by Deepblue
Ummm what does -mod ReflectMist do?
-mod
is just the modification tag poiting to a folder he called ReflectMist, which is like an alternate "data" folder that you can use.
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Ah. Thanks.
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Originally posted by Lightspeed
Use this:
C:\Games\Freespace2\fs2_open_env.exe -spec -glow -pcx32 -jpgtga -fps -fov 0.39 -ambient_factor 75 -mod ReflectMist
:)
wait a sec....you actually mean we can adjust the FoV?? what kind of FoV do you recommend to make an Orion look like its really as big as 2 Kilometers :nervous:
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fov has been available for a long time now, doesn't work as nicely as you would have hoped though.
keeping it out of the highligts isn't a bad idea as I'm not bug hunting it realy,
Raven2001, I'm afraid you have it wrong, what he said will work exactly like he said, though I would recomend simply makeing them realy realy dark
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Originally posted by Trivial Psychic
This may be a stupid thing to ask, but has anyone tried this build out with an in-nebula mission? Screens would be good if anything interesting worth posting results.
Later!
I'll try this later in the evening - but I dont think i'll be able to do it properly since my FPS is going to drop to 30 Frames / 30 Minutes or somewhere that whereabouts.
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Originally posted by Singh
wait a sec....you actually mean we can adjust the FoV?? what kind of FoV do you recommend to make an Orion look like its really as big as 2 Kilometers :nervous:
It wont work like that. By changing the FOV you get ugly perspective distortion on the edges of your screen. This was a problem with retail FS2 (space was warping around you oddly) - Setting it to 0.39 eliminates the ugly distortion (round shapes stay round at screen edges) almost completely (barely visible distorted) while also making things look bigger & better and keep playability.
-fov 0.39 is the way to go if you want good looks + good gameplay.
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:nod:
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what's the default btw? 0.9?
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.55 I think
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Damn, this looks really sweet!!! :yes:
(http://server6.uploadit.org/files/ryuune-screen04.jpg)
but i also got some weird bug on some ships.... :doubt:
(http://server6.uploadit.org/files/ryuune-screen03.jpg)
They looks like they come directly from Tron.... do you know what's wrong?? :sigh:
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hey, mind posting a pic of that with my arcadia? :)
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does that green thingy move like it's animated, does it look like a peice og interface art (ie a ship selection ani)?
what is the name of the texture used on that ship?
in this version I switched the load order of animations so they are looked for first, this has caused problems in other situations, and that kinda looks like a ship selection ani
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Originally posted by Bobboau
does that green thingy move like it's animated, does it look like a peice og interface art (ie a ship selection ani)?
what is the name of the texture used on that ship?
in this version I switched the load order of animations so they are looked for first, this has caused problems in other situations, and that kinda looks like a ship selection ani
It doens't move, but i discovered something: i tryed running the normal FSO build deleting the texture for that pof, and the result is the same! So it appens that the texture for the models in questions aren't loaded at all, and this cause the problem...
I checked the texture, it's called simply "VF1af.pcx" and it's a normal PCX texture with 256color depth... in total i have 5-6 models with this same problem... and they work nice with all others open builds and vanilla FS2.
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Originally posted by Nico
hey, mind posting a pic of that with my arcadia? :)
Sure, but seeing it in movement is another thing, really!!! Very impressive!!
(http://server6.uploadit.org/files/ryuune-screen05.jpg)
p.s. i had to reconvert the model and smooth it to obtain this result :)
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You forgot to flip the normals on the small turret, it's visible on that pic ;) ( the box between the bridge tower and the first turret )
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:yes:
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I don't like the chromed arcadia....
and I like less the turretts looking upward:(
someone should really fix it
but this image gave me an orgasm:eek:
Originally posted by ryuune75
(http://server6.uploadit.org/files/ryuune-screen04.jpg)
please please put it in the screenshot section of the hlp site!!!!!
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Originally posted by Nico
You forgot to flip the normals on the small turret, it's visible on that pic ;) ( the box between the bridge tower and the first turret )
To tell the truth it was a very quick conversion done 5 minutes ago to smooth the model and make the screenshot. I'm going to fix the turrets right now, so that they will fire :)
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to be honest, I don't like it chrome either. The turrets suffer from the stupid FS2 obligation of having them that way on edfault position, or less they will completly mess up when rotating.
Yeah, the macross pic looks sweet, I'd like more pics :) ( btw, have you done any missions yet, Ryuune? )
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Now everyone join the tester list and help us get 3.6 out.
I believe this is just one of many great features that will be created once we can move on again.
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Did some quick turreting (the bottom one still don't work...)
(http://server6.uploadit.org/files/ryuune-screen00.jpg)
As for the chrome thing, note that now i'm going with NO shine maps, so the reflection it's at the maximum, i think....setting a very dark shinemap will make the ship be less glassy
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yeah, that's still too much: for exemple, the wooden parts shold not be glossy at all...
Anyway, that's the first time I see my arcadia shooting at something...
"drops a tear because of overwhelming emotion"
Thank you!
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woah, never seen that before. That ship is pretty damn amazing Nico.
I don't recall seeing it in one of your sig sites though
KARMA: I didn't really need to know that.
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Originally posted by ryuune75
Did some quick turreting (the bottom one still don't work...)
(http://server6.uploadit.org/files/ryuune-screen00.jpg)
As for the chrome thing, note that now i'm going with NO shine maps, so the reflection it's at the maximum, i think....setting a very dark shinemap will make the ship be less glassy
:eek2: :eek2:
Go SCP! GO!
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Nope, it's not there. it's uploaded, but I didn't bother adding a link to it :p
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Should disable it on asteroids I think.
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Originally posted by ryuune75
(http://server6.uploadit.org/files/ryuune-screen04.jpg)
:eek2:
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^^ that pic almost gave me a heart attack
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Originally posted by Raa Tor'h
:eek2:
Something wrong? It doens't seem that bad to me...
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that's the mini jawdrop smiley, it means "wow" :p
More screenies, btw, plz :p
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I think that in this case the reflections on the white parts give em an incredibly realistic metallic effect, which make the trick.
With envmap, it'd benefit a lot of lower reflections on the blue and dark parts.
But still, it's probably on of the best, if not the most impressive, FS2:SCP screenshot so far, you really should pick a shot of the same zentradi pod in the same situation in vanilla fs2 to show the difference:)
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Originally posted by Carl
i had screenshots, but...no uploader :(
[email protected]
I'll put 'em up in my staff space for ya. :)
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Originally posted by Nico
that's the mini jawdrop smiley, it means "wow" :p
More screenies, btw, plz :p
Ahh, i see, i tought he was scared :D
Originally posted by KARMA
I think that in this case the reflections on the white parts give em an incredibly realistic metallic effect, which make the trick.
With envmap, it'd benefit a lot of lower reflections on the blue and dark parts.
But still, it's probably on of the best, if not the most impressive, FS2:SCP screenshot so far, you really should pick a shot of the same zentradi pod in the same situation in vanilla fs2 to show the difference:)
I don't think it's the white part, i thinkit's the kind of material used, and anyway, any surface looks really shiny, i can see a perfect reflection of the background planets on the decks of the sdf-1 :)
For the screenshots, i'll post them as soon as i get home, the same pod in vanilla FS2 looks crap, much better in SCP, but not rearly as good as this one, this environmental mapping thing is just awesome!!!
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Check out this odd mistake I made using the wrong POF as the skybox. Figure out what went wrong.
(http://www.penguinbomb.com/omniscaper/Screenshots/odd01.JPG)
(http://www.penguinbomb.com/omniscaper/Screenshots/odd02.JPG)
(http://www.penguinbomb.com/omniscaper/Screenshots/odd03.JPG)
It does show off your environment maps Bobboau.
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Woah. Space debris needs tweaked, tho. Or can you turn it off?
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tweaked is an understatement. I still can't believe we've got particle code and graphics as nice as we have (cough, lightspeed) and are still using the extremely crappy vanilla space debris. Please, please, please fix these.
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Should there even be space debris? I fail to believe that the entirety of space is that dirt filled :p
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a space sim needs debris so you see how fast youre moving, and in which direction. Try without it and there's no feel to the game anymore.
Sounds stupid, but is surprisingly true.
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IWar2 got by with lines built into the HUD, perhaps that could be done?
At the very least, the debris needs work - it should be noticable enough to track your speed/direction but not ugly.
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heh. trippy there omni. looks almost like it's cloaked ;)
as for the debris, yes, it needs to be made much prettier, or like some other games, make it look like it's a hud thing (velocity lines...from either tachyon or iwar, or both...not sure). Or just blend the existing ones with the black, that'd make it look better too.
EDIT: Bah. Thuderfireth posted before me.
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Lines would be nice, or just being able to set a density of debris? Ah well, either way, make the Borg go away! ;) hehehehe
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Needs transparency, I think. (the debris, that is)
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Originally posted by Setekh
[email protected]
I'll put 'em up in my staff space for ya. :)
i wish. yahoo always craps out whenever i try to e-mail attachments.
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so, uh... what went wrong in Omni's pics, I didn't catch it.
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the sky box covers the entire sky. you see the world all around. notice the defiant in particular
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they look all chrome-plated
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I was thinking about useing a similar effect to this to generate a cloak
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Originally posted by Flipside
Lines would be nice, or just being able to set a density of debris? Ah well, either way, make the Borg go away! ;) hehehehe
I'm for lines ala Iwar2 too.
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Originally posted by Carl
i wish. yahoo always craps out whenever i try to e-mail attachments.
Get a Tripod account, dude... :)
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Originally posted by Bobboau
I was thinking about useing a similar effect to this to generate a cloak
like copying the image of the other sode, but slightly distorting it?
cool, would you be able to set the distortion rate?
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First: Ouch!:eek2: *regarding earlier post*
Second: Finially tried this out. I don't have anything as great as before though...
(http://www.angelfire.com/space2/raptorsnest/screen00.jpg)
Note the brighted patch on the dark texture? At first I thought it was lighting from the engine glow.:D
(http://www.angelfire.com/space2/raptorsnest/screen01.jpg)
Under the tail, you can see a reflection of the planet (just off screen to the left).
SCP'ers, I guess you already know about the couple of bugs with the new thruster glows, right?
-The glow seen from the front dosn't change when afterburners fired
-sometimes ships (so far only fighters) don't display ANY glows or plumes, just the orginal modelled plume.
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Originally posted by Raptor
-The glow seen from the front dosn't change when afterburners fired
Yes, that's a bug i noticed too. Has been there since ages. Its the new effect.
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Well, you shouldn't really be able to motice much of an effect on FS ships.... the only bits I can think of that would be relfective are the cockpits on fighters, etc, the awacs panes (Charybdis, etc), and arguably the big glass bits on the Arcadia
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I agree with aldo wholeheartly. Could probably find a few other places, but on a whole, the reflection should be there, but so mildly you can just "feel" some shades of colourings on the hull, and that's it.
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Mmmm. I think it does need to be tamed. But time will draw it out - just like when we figured out how to remove ambient lighting. "Wheee, look, everything's black!" We'll get over it soon. ;)
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but I liked everything black with ambient lightning :p
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Originally posted by Nico
but I liked everything black with ambient lightning :p
:nod: :nod: :nod:
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hmm..
Those screens look exelent, but there is way to get it look better than anything out at the moment.
proper image based ambient lighting. both diffuse/specular.
specular is actualy just blurred enviroment map. (there is no difference in any calculations)
but addition of diffuse part would be awesome and sould be pretty easy.
it is MUCH blurried version of the enviroment map with texture cordinates taken directly from normals. (not view dependant.)
if you want it to look like movies (and im not kidding.)
add ambient occlusion. per vertex should be enough and very fast.
.
becouse all maps are pretty blurry there is no need for high res maps. (something like 256x256x6 is already quite overkill for specular and 32x32x6 for diffuse is plenty.)
and becouse we talk about ambient theres no need for HDR 8bits should be enough.
some links to explain what is possible.
about ibl and ambient occlusion.
http://www.andrew-whitehurst.net/amb_occlude.html
http://www.debevec.org/IBL2003/
http://www.cs.wisc.edu/~ltokheim/ambenv/
exelent tool for creating maps and for blurriness reference if you want to do maps runtime.
http://www.debevec.org/HDRShop/
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Hey, nakki! Welcome to HLP. :) Most of what you said just sailed over my head, but it sounds like the SCP coders would want to hear what you're talking about. I suggest you post your suggestions in this thread (http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php/topic,21149.0.html) in the Source Code Project forum, where they'll be discussing coding possibilities more, rather than just ogling at the results. ;)
:welcome:
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Or, I could just move the thread over for y'all. ;)
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again, why?
have you gone mad with power... again?
:)
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No, seriously, it's not my fault! :nervous:
If you actually want them moved back to FS Modding, no prob, but this was by request. :nod:
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oh, ok
hell might as well delete them for all the truble they've gotten me into
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Not with me Bob :)
Have a go at the thruster bug, if you manage to fix it they'll all be grateful :p
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you mean the one were user selected ship's thruster glows don't show up?
try this build (http://freespace.volitionwatch.com/blackwater/fs2_open_Bobboau_3-6-04.zip)
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Let's say for cloaking one fades the properties of the ship gradually to 100 percent of the surrounding environment.
Would it be possible to have a ship's environment map be "reversed" so that well...lets say a ship is cloaked and parallel between two backgrounds: a purple nebula and a planet.
planet blah blah & left observer --- Cloaked Ship ----- purple nebula & right observer
well my idea is, say some ship from the left side, the observer, looks at the cloaked ship.
Normally, the left observer will see the reflection of the planet on the 100% reflective "cloaked ship". BUT...what if the cloaked ship's LEFT side reflected the environment to its RIGHT, and the RIGHT reflected the LEFT environment? and TOP OF the ship reflecting whats UNDER the ship, and the SHIP's FRONT reflecting whats BEHIND the ship...
Such a thing would probably be a near-perfect Klingon Bird of Prey Effect! Ideally, looking at the ship from the nebula you would see the planet and a slight distortion... ;) unfortunately i have no idea how to do something like this.
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Originally posted by Bobboau
you mean the one were user selected ship's thruster glows don't show up?
try this build (http://freespace.volitionwatch.com/blackwater/fs2_open_Bobboau_3-6-04.zip)
I didnt mean that one but it also needs fixing :)
I meant the bug with the intersections with the ship's hull.
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that isn't so much a bug as it's an unfortunate side effect of the way things work
and is the 'thrusters not showing up' bug fixed in that build?
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I agree, ambient lightning as it was in the original FS sucks. But would it be possible to implement a much darker version of it? I agree that it may be realistic space-shadows, but I really don't understand why we are making so much work on ships and textures, if you want to display them nearly black in the game. There isn't much left on the model to see, except for the lights.
If we want it realistic, we could turn off the sound too, cause sound cannot travel in space.
A suggestion here: would it be possible to implement a much darker version of the ambient lightning... something in very dark grey.
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How many times do I have to repeat?
"We already have -ambient factor x.x" - "We already have -ambient factor x.x" - "We already have -ambient factor x.x" - "We already have -ambient factor x.x" - "We already have -ambient factor x.x" - "We already have -ambient factor x.x" - :rolleyes:
Try -ambient_factor 75. :)
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they arn't getting displayed very nearly black in game, unless there on the opposite side of the ship as a light source
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When I start env_build with Lightspeed's Background#2 mission, I got enviroment maps - cool
(http://foxer.pl/freespace/env/screen01.gif)
... but... when i quit the mission and enter techroom i got Lightspeed's backgrounds on every ship :D.
Look:
(http://foxer.pl/freespace/env/screen03.gif)
(http://foxer.pl/freespace/env/screen04.gif)
(http://foxer.pl/freespace/env/screen06.gif)
(http://foxer.pl/freespace/env/screen07.gif)
In Deimos and Hecate screens enviromental is too shiny and effective, same with Uly. I dont thinks that terran's steel is like a mirror. But it looks very good with Perseus :). Good work with Enviromental maps, but it need to be limited for that 'shiny hecate steel' in example.
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It will be. However, turn down that ambient light, it looks tons better with it set to something lower.
Try adding -ambient_factor 75 to your command line :)
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the thing with it still being there in the tech room was a bug that I thought looked better, so I left it alone.
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Unless you do it before you enter a mission, when everything's white.
It's probably be easier just to set it to a black environment map initially, no?
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That's what it's set at when FS2 loads :)
I would have thought using something like the main hall or some kind of 'Car Showroom Lights' would be good to use in the Tech Room ;)
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raa are things still whit in the build currently up, I know it was like that innitaly but it should have been fixed by now
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it's never been that way with me, and i've been using the first env build.
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Originally posted by Bobboau
raa are things still whit in the build currently up, I know it was like that innitaly but it should have been fixed by now
I'll check tomorrow. I wasn't aware of an update.
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Would it be possible to create a "default background that it uses for the tech room reflections?
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perhaps as an addition in the tbl?
so we can give shivans nice red neb reflections, and stuff like that.
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no, this would actualy be extreemly dificult, its one of the few places that generateing a texutre on the fly is easier than loading it from memory (and who ever makes the texture is going to have a bad day)
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This may seem far-fetched, but why not make a default background POF for use in the techroom, that gets loaded up as soon as the game starts? Since the POF's are used in ship selection as well now, it could be used for all of the interface.
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actually, I kinda like how the old bg is retained. of course, too bad its there as a huge reminder that ALL FS2 data is loaded regardless of what missions use :blah: :confused:
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Ok, I'm impressed
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Judging from the screenshots it looks wonderful. :yes:
My only concern, as stated before, is how the light will reflect on certain surfaces (asterioids; I always thought that the Shivans and Vasudan ships had more of a rock hull then a metal one...I don't think that anybody knows for sure. :blah: )
If this build is continued, and this issue is concerned, I can only imagine how hard it would be to fix this issue.
:doubt:
But other than that, it looks great - Keep it up! :)
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I had always invisioned Shivan hulls as beeing mirrorlike (and in space this makes them incredably black, blacker than black) and Vasudan hulls as being metalic like pollished copper, Terran hulls being more like brushed aluminum (though harder than it).
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Originally posted by Gregster2k
actually, I kinda like how the old bg is retained. of course, too bad its there as a huge reminder that ALL FS2 data is loaded regardless of what missions use :blah: :confused:
Actually it's a pure indication that the environment map is stored in memory and then simply overwritten. One is not generated when you enter the tech room, and so the old one is still sitting there in memory and will be used. Unless I'm mistaken, FSO only loads the data it uses, some on the fly which results in in-game slowdown. Unless that has been fixed, of course.
With your comments Bob, I agree almost completely. Though I always thought the black on shivan ships should be pure matte, not mirrorlike.
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mirrorlike like frozen death. :)
the cube map is 6 512^2 textures there in memory all the time weather you nead them or not (becase it would be a waist of time to clear it as it is going to be used in every mission), if it's there why not leave it and let people look at it in the tech room.
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if only i had a free image hoster that allows bitmaps.!!!!!
OMG, My Radon 9600 looks soo good with this build:D :D
Edit: jsut found a problem try using it in a subspace mission
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yeah subspace is diferent than normal sky boxes so it wasn't fixed in this build
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so should we (and by we, i mean the people that know how) make it into a packground pof?
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no, it' won't work right, just wait until after 3.6 and when it gets merged back in everything will be happiness and flowers
or I tell you what I've got an extra five minutes, I'll pop it back in for a sec, there's only three functions, and a few minor changes.
copy and past of code, forked in old env code and reverted to the copy of code I made at the begining and the time it took to upload the file, 30 minutes
http://freespace.volitionwatch.com/blackwater/fs2_open_env2.zip
this one seems to actualy work with TBP :D
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this is a big step for 1 man but a gigant leap for the community :D
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subspace does work as expected in that build, more or less (texture translation doesn't work)
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sweet...
although I'm experiencing freezing all over that build and not only in game.
(http://www.fattonys.com/images/upload/screen02.jpg)
(http://www.fattonys.com/images/upload/screen01.jpg)
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I've posted some pics for ya all
beautiful aren't they:D
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Very nice to see it back! :D Do you have the Hires textures installed, that Lucifer looks pretty splurgy to me?
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great, finally I can start on new subspace textures! :D
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That'de be great Lightspeed. Frankly, the existing textures aren't even up to FS2 standards. More like FS1.
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Yeah well, they ARE FS1 textures, after all. The subspace environment isn't used in the FS2 campaign, so there was no reason to update the artwork when the game was released. Same reason ships like the Luci's maps were downsized and included even though the thing doesn't actually appear anywhere.
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Originally posted by Flipside
Very nice to see it back! :D Do you have the Hires textures installed, that Lucifer looks pretty splurgy to me?
No, I just found them!!!:)
I'll post more screenies
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You need the FS Port website....
http://www.3dap.com/hlp/hosted/fsport/
Watch your eyes on that one btw ;)
Flipside :D
LOL Ok, you found them while I was typing this :D
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tell me if the name is right, shine fs1
(http://www.fattonys.com/images/upload/JoshCagle111.jpg)
(http://www.fattonys.com/images/upload/JoshCagle112.jpg)
Can't wait untill this becomes final!!!!:D :yes: :yes:
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Can't wait till we have seperate environment maps ;) :lol:
Looking good :D
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what do you mean 'seperate'
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As in seperate from the shine/specular maps :) Or in the alpha plane :) I know you were considering some possibilities, but either way, still an awesome feature :D
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hargh, a reflecting lucifer.
goodby the black destroyers :doubt:
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sorry for the dust....
somehow I must have some other destiny...:(
heaven didn't like me...it kicked me out...hell didn't like me...it kicked me out...I took one look at myself...and I didn't like me...'
(http://freespace.kicks-ass.net/_images/fs/envmap01.jpg)
subspace took one look and just packed it in and left?!!! :hopping:
(http://freespace.kicks-ass.net/_images/fs/subspace6.jpg)
:confused:
seriously...the problem is ofcourse with the first pic, it's FUBAR...now you probably think...jpeg artifacting...true...a bit...but it's not the cause of this striping effect as this is also in the original bmp, because it is subspace reflecting on the hull...but it looks way too bright, as if my hull is made of pearly white...so what am I missing? I used the -ambient_factor 75, turned off every remaining flags cause I thought maybe the enhancers (-spec -glow -jpgtga -pcx32) were causing this....btw...none of the mediavp stuff is present...
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Originally posted by JarC
subspace took one look and just packed it in and left?!!! :hopping:
(pic)
:lol:
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The pb is that they've decided to use the spec map for that effect too, which will always lead to things like that :doubt:
You either have a very shiny AND reflective ship, or have nothing.
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Originally posted by Nico
The pb is that they've decided to use the spec map for that effect too, which will always lead to things like that :doubt:
You either have a very shiny AND reflective ship, or have nothing.
Remember, env mapping NEVER was officially implemented.
It will use the alpha channel of the shinemaps.
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After 3.6. After 3.6. ;)
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Originally posted by Lightspeed
Remember, env mapping NEVER was officially implemented.
It will use the alpha channel of the shinemaps.
alpha channel of the shinemaps... wait, I'm tired, thinking a bit about it.
Ah, so it won't be the same as the shinemap? Does it makes things faster to just use the alpha map rather than another map?
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Not really a lot, but the main idea is not to have 4000 different textures per model :)
It's like using an additional 8-bit image along with the 24 bit texture (as it's 32 bit with transparency).
So you have a free customizable 'percentage of reflectivity' - and still only need one map for 'shines of all types'. As the reflectivity doesnt need any colour information the alpha channel is perfect for it.
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Originally posted by Lightspeed
It will use the alpha channel of the shinemaps.
[ screeching halt ] Hold It!! Backup The Truck for a minute....what you say? it needs shinemaps? ooooooooh...
Originally posted by JarC
....btw...none of the mediavp stuff is present...
so everyone missed that one huh?...
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the version of the environment map build has lots of problems with skyboxes, like subspace, this issue has been fixed recently, well actualy a month or two ago. if you are useing a Radeon card try useing the comandline '-max_subdivide 2.0' (I think that's it) it will make everything look better.
in the eventual implementation, I plan to use the alpha chanel of the texture, this will be faster, as there will only be one texture load rather than two.
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Originally posted by Bobboau
in the eventual implementation, I plan to use the alpha chanel of the texture, this will be faster, as there will only be one texture load rather than two.
??? Which? texture are you referring to? I mean, there's often gonna be more than one version of the same texture, not? the same texture can be present as tga, jpg and/or pcx for non-32bit...so which ones should have the alpha channel then? the shine map, the glow map or the regular map?
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Personally I still feel it like a waste to force a specmap to be 32 bit adding the alpha when it normally should be 8 bit, althought it may be faster than loading more maps. I mean: the difference in kb size may be huge when talking about maps of 1024x1024.
Hell, I still draw even the textures at 8 bit since I can't see any difference worth of increased kb size (but this is also because I don't use lots of different colours)
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Originally posted by JarC
??? Which? texture are you referring to? I mean, there's often gonna be more than one version of the same texture, not? the same texture can be present as tga, jpg and/or pcx for non-32bit...so which ones should have the alpha channel then? the shine map, the glow map or the regular map?
shine map, RTFT
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Karma, how many times does it have to be said, that it doesn't matter what format the textures are in, when loaded there all the same once you're playing a game!
and yes, alpha chanel on the shine map.
the way it's curently implemented, we have the advantage of the tint of the shine map affecting the color of the reflections, but a third texture I think is too much, I was thinking it might be a good idea to use the alpha chanel as a multiplyer of the shine map, you could make everything but the cockpit very dark grey to have a very low effect, it would retain the color tinting properties it currently has, but you wouldn't be able to make un-shiney parts of the ship reflective.
and seeing as we have a fairly good number of shine maps now, I'm thinking it might be a good idea to turn off the the auto-loading of the defuse texture as the shine map, if the same texture is not used in these sections I might be able to make some optomiseations.
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Originally posted by Bobboau
and yes, alpha chanel on the shine map.
the way it's curently implemented, we have the advantage of the tint of the shine map affecting the color of the reflections, but a third texture I think is too much, I was thinking it might be a good idea to use the alpha chanel as a multiplyer of the shine map, you could make everything but the cockpit very dark grey to have a very low effect, it would retain the color tinting properties it currently has, but you wouldn't be able to make un-shiney parts of the ship reflective.
I think it would be a lot better if it used the alpha channel completely independently - white alpha channel = maximum reflectivity, black alpha channel = no reflectivity. Just like a second shinemap, 'cept it lacks colour information.
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So, if I understand this correctly, shine mapping is light reflecting off of ships, while environment mapping is images (the surroundng environment) reflecting off of ships, right?
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Originally posted by Nico
shine map, RTFT
ok mr perfect, we al know you know this stuf k? just finding out that the environment mapping I needs the shine maps and suddenly bobboau starting talking over just the one texture, I got confused k? so pipe down...;) and to be sure I understood it...what LightSpeed would like to see as behaviour is if I am correct, exactly that what bobboau is saying, use the shine map for the color intensity, and the alpha channel to control the shinyness of the reflection without the alpha channel having effect on the shine part...
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Originally posted by Bobboau
Karma, how many times does it have to be said, that it doesn't matter what format the textures are in, when loaded there all the same once you're playing a game!
:doubt: excuse me but I can't read where the hell I was talking about file formats....
actually I was arguing only about the colour depth....and IIRC it was you and nobody else who said that the size of an image in game is resolution x colour depth, which will be twice than needed, if not more, then I can't avoid to feel it like a waste althought I know it'll be faster than other solutions. Sorry if I hurted your heart
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you said 8 bit, there are no 8 bit textures in game.
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ahem, (it's because I'm curious and not to make a discussion) isn't the number of bits=colour depth?? I thought it was 8bit=256 colours 24bit=16m colours 32bit=16m + alpha and that the colour depth (which mean if I'm not wrong the number of bits) affect the weight (I suppose in term of memory usage) of an image used in game.
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That's correct. And apparently there aren't any 8-bit textures in the game. Which is good. If it was 8-bit, the game would be damned ugly.
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actually all the original :v: artwork is 256 colours, and personally I still draw all my textures with that limit...
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And they get rendered in full 32-bit as soon as they are used in your game. Point?
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*sigh*
Originally posted by Bobboau
if you want to know how much space a texture is going to take up in memory, simply multiply it's hight by it's width by it's color depth (if you don't know it's 16 bit, that would be the old PCX textures, TGA aand JPG are both 32 bit) the only exeption would be the dds compressed textures.
so a 1024X1024 32bit picture would be 33,554,432 bits
divide that by 8 any that's how many bytes you have, 4,194,304, so about 4.2 megabytes
and since it wasn't posted 5 years ago but about 2 months ago, then (again) my question:
Originally posted by KARMA
I thought...that the colour depth ... affect the weight (I suppose in term of memory usage) of an image used in game.
and to me more memory usage=not good and something to avoid if possible;
now, is it still true or something which I don't know changed in that period of time (I've been almost out in that period for real life, so it could be..)?
Because I feel like I'm missing something here, or maybe I'm just stupid and I continue to miss the point
and, this is WHY I keep asking the same thing, it really doesn't cost too much to me to open my old psd files and save em as 24/32 bit instead of 8, if it cost nothing in term of perforamce
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oh, yeah, the PCX are still being loaded into a 16 bit texture, it probly wouldn't cost you too much, but it wouldn't gain you anything either.
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not is you use -pcx32, anyway.
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ahh ok then, tell me if I'm wrong now:
pcx 256 colours (8bit) will use the same memory of a pcx 16 bit (so I can save as 16 bit and have the same performance of an 8 bit pcx)
all the other formats will take up the memory of a 32 bit image, no matter if it is a 8 bit or a 16 bit image or whatever.
If I use the command line -pcx32 any pcx will use the same memory of a 32bit image, no matter if it is a 8 bit or a 16 bit image or whatever.
Then I have mostly this choice: pcx 16bit (which I think is what I'll go for when saving textures) or tga 32bit.
Any other file saved with a lower colour depth will give no performance gain at all, the only gain will be a smaller file size when downloading them from internet.
am I right finally?:)
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not 100% yet :)
FS2open can load only 8-bit PCX files. Any higher colour depth PCX files can NOT be loaded.
If you want more colours you need to use TGA, JPG or DDS.
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Originally posted by Lightspeed
not 100% yet :)
FS2open can load only 8-bit PCX files. Any higher colour depth PCX files can NOT be loaded.
Ok, now I am lost again....so what is the -pcx32 flag then for if fs2open can't load them anyways?
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see... normally FS2 loads all PCX files and uses a compromised 16-bit palette to display them.
When -pcx32 is activated each PCX will be allowed to have *its own* 256 colour palette.
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um, no, PCX files are loaded into a 16 bit texture (unless you use the comand line pcx32 thingy), everything else is loaded into a 32 bit texture, no compression (with exeption for dds), no pallets, you have x*y(both of these rounded up to the nearest power of 2)*colordepth (16 (2 bytes) or 32 (4 bytes)) this is how much space is being taken up.
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Originally posted by Omniscaper
(http://www.penguinbomb.com/omniscaper/Screenshots/Env06.JPG)
:eek:;7:nod::yes:
Holly flying cows this looks great!
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becase noone seemed to see this in the other thread
"I spent the last hour or two, reintegrateing decals trueform and environment mapping, I also have a few other small tweaks that are native to my codebase
use the following comandline options;
-max_subdivide 2.10 (trueform, may cause instability, the 2.10 is part of it, use higher number for more subdivision, doesn't effect geometry at this point (only lighting, yo will see a big diference))
-bobshield (new shield rendering effect, initaly for capship shields, but I think its better all around)
http://freespace.volitionwatch.com/blackwater/fs2_open_r_future_demo.zip
to get decals working, you will need to alter weapons table
$decal:
+texture: bullethole01_A
+radius: 2.0
goes at the end of an entry"
this is integrated into a better version of the code so there shouldn't be as many problems
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Much happiness, Bobboau. :)
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That file crashes for me when starting up.
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(http://img2.imageshack.us/img2/8913/screen00.jpg)
so pretty
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Still using the old backgrounds, eh?
I need to DL this.
Where can we get the bullethole graphics?
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if it looks good with old stuff, i can't wait till Lighspeed's nebulae are put into the campaign
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Originally posted by Bobboau
becase noone seemed to see this in the other thread
"I spent the last hour or two, reintegrateing decals trueform and environment mapping, I also have a few other small tweaks that are native to my codebase
use the following comandline options;
-max_subdivide 2.10 (trueform, may cause instability, the 2.10 is part of it, use higher number for more subdivision, doesn't effect geometry at this point (only lighting, yo will see a big diference))
-bobshield (new shield rendering effect, initaly for capship shields, but I think its better all around)
Okay, finally tested your future build :)
There still seem to be issues with the features. I havent tested decals yet (will have to do some testing later), but from what I see it's draining a lot more performance than it should be.
Where I get constant 85 FPS with a normal build, with Trueform and env mapping I get about 28 FPS (or less, in some cases) - the specular lighting flickers on and off wildly. If I turn off TrueForm, I get 85 FPS again and the specular lighting works again, but as soon as theres a bit of action it drops down to 42 FPS (and stays there).
Also, there seem to be some 'edges' on the reflected backgrounds on the models - it looks like if the texture would end there, and after that it's just black. When I die, the screen seems to be resized so the horizontal size is halved (the models look really squashed together left-right).
The most important thing to fix in the near future would be the performance drain, which is a lot higher than it should actually be.
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ive noticed that too
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The subspace model is moving super-fast :eek:
And it looks like the whole tunnel is envmapped on the ships.
(http://www.ystart.net/upload/20040509/1084121795.jpg)
(http://www.ystart.net/upload/20040509/1084121845.jpg)
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"Also, there seem to be some 'edges' on the reflected backgrounds "
I've seen the oddness with the environment map, I'm not sure exactly what's causeing it, but it's either I'm setting the fov wrong or I'm orienting the camera wrong when I make the texture
"And it looks like the whole tunnel is envmapped on the ships."
as it should be...
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Originally posted by Bobboau
[B
"And it looks like the whole tunnel is envmapped on the ships."
as it should be... [/B]
Uhmm that's not what I meen. You can see the tunnel on the ship. (the whole model)
As you can see in my 2. shot.
As if the tunnel is far away, and not around the ship.
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oh... crap, wait I think I know why it's doing that...
I updated , I think that problem should be fixed now, and I tried fixing some decal problems but I may have caused more problems than fixed.
never mind just tested it, now it's more broke than it was... :doubt:
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ok it IS fixed now, subspace should be running better than ever
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For some reason, all of the graphics are uber crappy. Especially subspace, which was moving the subspace map too quickly.
Edit: I mean in the older build. Haven't DLed this one yet.
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yeah, that's just been fixed
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And the poor resolution of the graphics also?
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uh, if you'r usieng low resolution data, I can't do aything about it
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No, I'm not. I was using the FS1 higher res stuff, as well as standard FS2 stuff resized to 1024x1024, and it looked pretty bad on some meshes.
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Yeah something is wrong.
I'm not sure, but I think the maps look worse when there is no background.
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post comparason shots
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I havent noticed anything like that yet.
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did notice this one thing, I was playing in the mission simulator and when I quit a mission ending back in the tech library, the environment from the last mission is still projected on the models.
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yeah, that was a sort of bug like thing that I've decided I like and therefore havn't fixed, clearing the cube map would only take a trivial amount of work, but I don't want to as you get to see the prety looking effect in the tech room if I leave it as is
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ok, here is a version that uses the alpha chanel for reflectivity
http://freespace.volitionwatch.com/blackwater/fs2_open_r_alpha_env.zip
this is only good for people who are going to be upgradeing the specmaps, as without modified data it realy doesn't look very good
I'm going to PM LS so he doesn't miss it
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I tried the updated version of future demo you posted and that also crashes for me right after the intro movie. I've tried removing the 3.6 mvps and starting it with no arguements but neither makes any difference.
Specs:
Athlon 3200xp
Radeon 9700 pro
1024 megs ram
NF7-S motherboard
Windows XP
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well, I've now tried several days using the env-mapping builds. finally also added the glowpointed models...
hmmmm...how to put this...I know lotta work went into it...but frankly...me no like...much to much reflection, the chrome on my vette would be proud of it, ships looking like they're made of mirrors. The glowpoints or whatever it is supposed to be (those flashing bulbs and always on bulbs)...kinda weird looking...anyone missing a porch light from ~6ft diameter? I dunno, they seem way too large...this is not a subtle effect anymore...
Tried playing down ambient_factor to 5 and it still looked like mirrors...could not find a setting to control the size of the glowpoints...
(note: I do know that this last build needs updated artwork for the env-mapping to look good in it, so I am not referring to this one if that is what you think...)
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You know what you need to reference to get this right? The Aquamark tech demo... the shareware version will do - part of it displays environment mapping on a submarine... they implemented it so that while it does reflect it doesn't look like a mirror.
Go check it out. I'll try and get some screens when I get home.
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Originally posted by JarC
well, I've now tried several days using the env-mapping builds. finally also added the glowpointed models...
hmmmm...how to put this...I know lotta work went into it...but frankly...me no like...much to much reflection, the chrome on my vette would be proud of it, ships looking like they're made of mirrors. The glowpoints or whatever it is supposed to be (those flashing bulbs and always on bulbs)...kinda weird looking...anyone missing a porch light from ~6ft diameter? I dunno, they seem way too large...this is not a subtle effect anymore...
Tried playing down ambient_factor to 5 and it still looked like mirrors...could not find a setting to control the size of the glowpoints...
'
As said before, there will be a possibility for mappers to controll of much each bit reflects. That way, you can make mirrors, and you can make completely not reflecting bits. This would be pretty much independent of the specmap, so you could have something that shines, but does not reflact like a mirror.
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Hehe. All it needs is properly bug fixed env mapping (I'm sure bob will manage to get this done), and some env supporting shinemaps (which I will do).
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It's been like... a day. Bob must really be working
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I'm at the end of a semester (ie exam time)
besides I didn't see anything that needed a responce.
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Originally posted by JarC
(note: I do know that this last build needs updated artwork for the env-mapping to look good in it, so I am not referring to this one if that is what you think...)
What's the point in criticizing older releases?