Hard Light Productions Forums

Modding, Mission Design, and Coding => The Modding Workshop => Topic started by: Raptor on March 01, 2004, 12:58:05 pm

Title: Return of the.....
Post by: Raptor on March 01, 2004, 12:58:05 pm: I was not going to post about this until I had done the UVmapping, but I'm running out of ideas...

It's about my attempt to remake the Aeolus cruiser.
Previous thread:
http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php/topic,20322.0.html

Latest screenshot:
(http://www.angelfire.com/space2/raptorsnest/Aeolus-stage7-1.jpg)
Excuse the size, it wouldn't reduce nicely...

I've redone the 'neck' and reduced the smoothing along the egdes, they were wasting polgons. The ring in the 'neck' is meant to be the dock point.

Any futher thoughts people? I get the feeling somethings missing, but I can't think what....:doubt:
Title: Return of the.....
Post by: Unknown Target on March 01, 2004, 02:01:50 pm: EDIT: nvm, looking pretty good :)

But add more detail to the "nose" of the ship!
Title: Return of the.....
Post by: Taristin on March 01, 2004, 02:26:30 pm: I just love your turrets.

The mesh looks pretty good too.
Title: Re: Return of the.....
Post by: mikhael on March 01, 2004, 02:34:59 pm: Quote
Originally posted by Raptor
Any futher thoughts people? I get the feeling somethings missing, but I can't think what....:doubt:

Gimme the mesh. I'll show you what's missing. Unfortunately, It'll lose all its UV Mapping in the process.
Title: Re: Re: Return of the.....
Post by: Raptor on March 02, 2004, 03:00:07 am: Quote
Originally posted by mikhael

Gimme the mesh. I'll show you what's missing. Unfortunately, It'll lose all its UV Mapping in the process.

Okay, since it dosn't have any UVmapping yet (the Dorsal/Ventral turrets do...).

Do you want the turrets as well, or just the hull?

Expect PM with link.
Title: Return of the.....
Post by: Havock on March 02, 2004, 07:45:51 am: I always thought the eauolus missed something, but it's something like a bridge.
there are NO windows at all :p
Title: Return of the.....
Post by: Liberator on March 02, 2004, 11:29:27 am: *cheesy brit accent* Brilliant!!
Title: Return of the.....
Post by: diamondgeezer on March 02, 2004, 10:02:43 pm: *corny Merrycan accent*

Lookin' mighty fine. Boy howdy.

You know, given factors such as the awful mapping on the V version and the lack of windows and what not, I have to suggest that a remap from scratch may be in order? It'd be a terrible shame to simply slap the V maps on this spanking new cruiser :nod:
Title: Return of the.....
Post by: aldo_14 on March 02, 2004, 10:36:12 pm: The original Aeolus mapjob was an effing travesty, may i add.
Title: Return of the.....
Post by: KARMA on March 03, 2004, 03:43:37 am: yes, one of the weirdest examples of mapping
Title: Return of the.....
Post by: Raptor on March 03, 2004, 04:10:53 am: *pats Lilith UVunwrap*:D

Trust me, I have no intension of simply slapping on the terrible orginal mapping.;)

Just waiting to see what Mikhael does...
Title: Return of the.....
Post by: KARMA on March 03, 2004, 04:18:13 am: you could model some windows lines on the nose btw, to simulate a bridge
Title: Return of the.....
Post by: aldo_14 on March 03, 2004, 05:44:28 am: Or minor window indents..... the original Aeolus doesn't have any windows, does it?
Title: Return of the.....
Post by: KARMA on March 03, 2004, 05:50:20 am: yes, I was thinking at window indents too, placed in lines at the top and the sides of the nose, indents like those I made for the fenris
Title: Return of the.....
Post by: Raptor on March 03, 2004, 07:37:09 am: Thats is possible, maybe I'll do that, If Mikhael dosn't.

Say Mik, any thing happening?
Title: Return of the.....
Post by: aldo_14 on March 03, 2004, 07:46:04 am: More detail on the engine section maybe... hard to say from a side view, though.
Title: Return of the.....
Post by: diamondgeezer on March 04, 2004, 10:27:45 am: The more you look at the Aelous, the more you realise quite how badly it was executed. I mean, it has to be one of V's best concepts yet they slaughtered it when it came to actually putting in the game. It has to hold some sort of record for good concept:bad execution ratio :nod:
Title: Return of the.....
Post by: KARMA on March 04, 2004, 10:43:14 am: actually I like a lot the aeolus concept. Maybe it isn't that original, it makes me think at the nebulon frigate from star wars, an helicopter and some other stuff, but indeed it's cool.
If you ask me what's the worst realized concept in the fs2 shipset, the aeolus would be one of most probable winners, with the hecate probably
Title: Return of the.....
Post by: aldo_14 on March 04, 2004, 11:07:59 am: (http://www.3dap.com/hlp/hosted/reciprocity/wipshots/aegir.jpg)
(very old ship)

Was based on the concept art that became the Aeolus. Anyone who wants the pof, can 'ave it. i'm not using it any more.
Title: Return of the.....
Post by: Lightspeed on March 04, 2004, 11:43:47 am: Make a Hi-Poly more Aeolus looking version of that, and it will rock :)

I dont mind changing the looks of some FS2 ships around, as some of them are really crappy (Aeolus is one of them).
Title: Return of the.....
Post by: c914 on March 04, 2004, 12:03:29 pm: Quote
Originally posted by aldo_14
(http://www.3dap.com/hlp/hosted/reciprocity/wipshots/aegir.jpg)
(very old ship)

Was based on the concept art that became the Aeolus. Anyone who wants the pof, can 'ave it. i'm not using it any more.

Can i get him. I had an idea how to rebuild this ship:D
Title: Return of the.....
Post by: aldo_14 on March 04, 2004, 12:59:18 pm: Quote
Originally posted by Lightspeed
Make a Hi-Poly more Aeolus looking version of that, and it will rock :)

Raven already did, actually.
Title: Return of the.....
Post by: aldi on March 04, 2004, 01:17:00 pm: aldo_14 can i get a copy of your model.
Title: Return of the.....
Post by: aldo_14 on March 04, 2004, 01:31:24 pm: Quote
Originally posted by aldi
aldo_14 can i get a copy of your model.

you PM-ed me, yeah? I just emailed it.
Title: Return of the.....
Post by: Raptor on March 04, 2004, 02:36:22 pm: Quote
Originally posted by aldo_14
(http://www.3dap.com/hlp/hosted/reciprocity/wipshots/aegir.jpg)
(very old ship)

Was based on the concept art that became the Aeolus. Anyone who wants the pof, can 'ave it. i'm not using it any more.

I heard about this, always wondered how it looked. Pretty good.
Title: Return of the.....
Post by: aldo_14 on March 04, 2004, 02:39:48 pm: Quote
Originally posted by Raptor

I heard about this, always wondered how it looked. Pretty good.

I never liked it, actually. I'm totally rebuilding it with HT&L in mind, now.
Title: Return of the.....
Post by: aldi on March 04, 2004, 03:02:17 pm: thanks aldo.
Title: Return of the.....
Post by: Lightspeed on March 04, 2004, 04:01:02 pm: Can we see Raven's version of this?
Title: Return of the.....
Post by: aldo_14 on March 04, 2004, 04:01:45 pm: Quote
Originally posted by Lightspeed
Can we see Raven's version of this?

Search the boards - it's there somewhere.
Title: Return of the.....
Post by: Sandwich on March 04, 2004, 05:13:32 pm: *waits for Mik*
Title: Return of the.....
Post by: Skaarj on March 04, 2004, 05:32:09 pm: can i have a copy please?
Title: Return of the.....
Post by: Raptor on March 05, 2004, 03:29:52 am: *Also waiting for Mik*
Title: Return of the.....
Post by: Setekh on March 05, 2004, 09:05:16 am: Excellent, excellent. I agree with Raa, those turrets rock. :)
Title: Return of the.....
Post by: Raptor on March 05, 2004, 09:46:42 am: Thanks Setekh, and thankyou for also mentioning me in the main page news!:D

*still waiting for Mik to post something...*
Title: Return of the.....
Post by: Jonathan_S47 on March 05, 2004, 11:37:24 pm: While we are waiting, Raptor could you post some screen shots of that model at different angles?
Title: Return of the.....
Post by: Setekh on March 06, 2004, 01:22:44 am: Quote
Originally posted by Raptor
Thanks Setekh, and thankyou for also mentioning me in the main page news!:D

*still waiting for Mik to post something...*

You deserve it. You're the kind of person who's leading the push for the next generation of FreeSpace mods. It's also you who's going to force me to upgrade one of these days, but it'll be worth it. ;)
Title: Return of the.....
Post by: Raptor on March 06, 2004, 06:39:12 am: Setekh, you are too kind!:nod::yes:

Here's a few more screenies of my progess. no differance in the model to my last posted screen, just at diffrent angles. This includes the other half (I've been modelling half the ship, then when it's mapped, I'll mirror it to get a whole ship).

(http://www.angelfire.com/space2/raptorsnest/Aeolus-stage7-2.jpg)
(http://www.angelfire.com/space2/raptorsnest/Aeolus-stage7-3.jpg)
(http://www.angelfire.com/space2/raptorsnest/Aeolus-stage7-4.jpg)
(http://www.angelfire.com/space2/raptorsnest/Aeolus-stage7-5.jpg)
(http://www.angelfire.com/space2/raptorsnest/Aeolus-stage7-6.jpg)

I'm already planing a Aeolus-refit based on this hull;)
Title: Return of the.....
Post by: Sandwich on March 06, 2004, 12:18:06 pm: I like the artistic liberty you took with the back engines. :yes:
Title: Return of the.....
Post by: Gank on March 06, 2004, 12:53:05 pm: Hulls nice but I cant say I like the turrets, look oversized with barrels too long.
Title: Return of the.....
Post by: Black Wolf on March 07, 2004, 08:07:44 am: This I like :D And I know exactly what sort of textures it needs...I have faith it will get them though :D
Title: Return of the.....
Post by: Raptor on March 07, 2004, 09:49:51 am: Quote
Originally posted by Gank
Hulls nice but I cant say I like the turrets, look oversized with barrels too long.

Well, those models were an attempt to make the model fit the weapon (forward and aft pair, flak guns. Midship pair, plasma based).

The orginal Aeolus had really undersized turrets, IMHO. They barely had the space for anything bigger than fighter guns. Could have worked though, giving them rapid fire Prometheus cannons, but the messed nature of the geometry...:ick:

I wounder how good Lightspeed is with ship textures. We've all seen his work with weapon effects and nebulae....:drevil:

If he's not intrested, then I'm open for volenters to texture this beauty. I'll UV map it, but I've got enough texturing heading my way already...:shaking:

Oh and BTW, which of these text colours are already in useby someone?
Sky Blue
Royal Blue <- I Like this one:p
Blue
Title: Return of the.....
Post by: Taristin on March 07, 2004, 10:24:04 am: Quote
Originally posted by Raptor

I wounder how good Lightspeed is with ship textures. We've all seen his work with weapon effects and nebulae....:drevil:

He'll probably say he's too busy. :p But he does an excellent job with them if he has omething to work from. He's reworked 4 TVWP ships already, and he'll probably be touching some for CIM (Raven's campaign) whenever I manage to bake the skins good.
Title: Return of the.....
Post by: Sandwich on March 07, 2004, 04:42:44 pm: Quote
Originally posted by Raptor

Oh and BTW, which of these text colours are already in useby someone?
Sky Blue
Royal Blue <- I Like this one:p
Blue

If you choose Blue I shall ban you. It is hard to focus on those wavelengths.
Title: Return of the.....
Post by: Bobboau on March 07, 2004, 04:58:14 pm: add some more hard lines to the hull, some 60 degree angles and horiszontal lines running the length of the ship
Title: Return of the.....
Post by: Raptor on March 08, 2004, 07:57:21 am: Quote
Originally posted by Sandwich

If you choose Blue I shall ban you. It is hard to focus on those wavelengths.

Hey, thats not nice! What you got against the colour blue?
Title: Return of the.....
Post by: Sandwich on March 09, 2004, 12:51:57 pm: Quote
Originally posted by Raptor

Hey, thats not nice! What you got against the colour blue?

I was joking about the banning (duh). But it also was to make the point that a solid blue color is hard to read against a black BG.
Title: Return of the.....
Post by: aldo_14 on March 09, 2004, 12:57:57 pm: Quote
Originally posted by Sandwich

I was joking about the banning (duh). But it also was to make the point that a solid blue color is hard to read against a black BG.

and you posted this on a green bg?

:p
Title: Return of the.....
Post by: Ghostavo on March 09, 2004, 01:38:10 pm: I don't know why but it kind of reminds me of the Midwinter class. :D
Title: Return of the.....
Post by: Raptor on March 09, 2004, 01:38:14 pm: Testing...
Testing...
Testing...

Okay, pure blue is a bit hard to see. So I'll use this one then.

Man, we have wandered quite off topic haven't we?:D

Mikheal, please show us some progress!
Title: Return of the.....
Post by: Unknown Target on March 09, 2004, 01:44:24 pm: How do you remember to put the tags before and after each of your messages? :D
Title: Return of the.....
Post by: Liberator on March 09, 2004, 03:27:32 pm: good question
Title: Return of the.....
Post by: Lightspeed on March 09, 2004, 03:52:48 pm: Quote
Originally posted by Raptor
Testing...
Testing...
Testing...

Okay, pure blue is a bit hard to see. So I'll use this one then.

Man, we have wandered quite off topic haven't we?:D

Mikheal, please show us some progress!

oh no, he stole my favourite colour. :(
Title: Return of the.....
Post by: Raptor on March 09, 2004, 04:04:57 pm: Quote
Originally posted by Lightspeed

oh no, he stole my favourite colour. :(

Oh man, sorry. I'll stop if you want me too.
Title: Return of the.....
Post by: Pilot Of The US on March 19, 2004, 11:40:50 pm: Yo, aldo_14, i'd like to have that pof of that model. (the concept of Aleous). Thanx.
Title: Return of the.....
Post by: Black Wolf on April 04, 2004, 03:55:39 am: Bump.

Any news Mik?
Title: Return of the.....
Post by: Pilot Of The US on April 04, 2004, 04:34:30 am: *waits patiently for aldo_14's reply*
Title: Return of the.....
Post by: Woolie Wool on April 06, 2004, 05:58:45 pm: Quote
Originally posted by Sandwich

I was joking about the banning (duh). But it also was to make the point that a solid blue color is hard to read against a black BG.

This kind of blue is hard to read against almost any BG
Title: Return of the.....
Post by: aldo_14 on April 06, 2004, 06:19:35 pm: Quote
Originally posted by Pilot Of The US
*waits patiently for aldo_14's reply*

Oops.

Um, gimme your email.
Title: Return of the.....
Post by: Raptor on April 07, 2004, 01:34:22 pm: ...taps foot Sonic style...
Title: Return of the.....
Post by: Pilot Of The US on April 10, 2004, 01:09:36 am: Oh my email is [email protected]

How big is the file?? and does it include textures?
Title: Return of the.....
Post by: Unknown Target on April 10, 2004, 09:51:19 am: Any more progress on this? :)
Title: After posting email address to forum thread.............
Post by: Pilot Of The US on April 11, 2004, 02:55:37 am: *awaits patiently for model to be delivered via email to my inbox*
Title: Return of the.....
Post by: Raptor on April 11, 2004, 08:20:44 am: Quote
Originally posted by Unknown Target
Any more progress on this? :)

Well, Mik said he'd do some to it, but haven't heard a word from him yet...

I may do some at some point, if he dosn't show anything.
Title: Return of the.....
Post by: Pilot Of The US on April 11, 2004, 11:34:26 pm: Thanx aldo, the model arrived. But i cant seem to open it in ModelView. I think it's coz ive got an older version.
Title: Return of the.....
Post by: Black Wolf on April 12, 2004, 02:58:01 am: Quote
Originally posted by Raptor

Well, Mik said he'd do some to it, but haven't heard a word from him yet...

I may do some at some point, if he dosn't show anything.

Yarr :nod:

He be busy. I'm assumin'. Continue.
Title: Return of the.....
Post by: Shinobi on April 12, 2004, 01:13:48 pm: Quote
Originally posted by Pilot Of The US
Thanx aldo, the model arrived. But i cant seem to open it in ModelView. I think it's coz ive got an older version.

Try using VAs version of modelview which allows high poly models to be viewed. Here's the download link. Just follow the instructions :)

Click. (http://www.sectorfiles.com/ti-file-dump/VasudanAdmiral/modviw32.zip)

Shinobi
Title: Return of the.....
Post by: aldo_14 on April 12, 2004, 01:16:47 pm: ? It's not a high poly model, anyways...............
Title: Return of the.....
Post by: Raptor on April 13, 2004, 11:59:38 am: I got bored waiting for Mik.

Here's a couple of new pics. I've starting adding windows and detailing up the forward section.

(http://www.angelfire.com/space2/raptorsnest/Aeolus-stage8-1.jpg)
Along the spar. I've reduced the size of half the windows along here.

(http://www.angelfire.com/space2/raptorsnest/Aeolus-stage8-2.jpg)
Around the side ports. One will a beam (AAA), other Hornet battery/Flak emplacement. That box and connecting, er, section is supposed to be a power conduit running from the engine to the beam cannon.;)

Comments?
Title: Return of the.....
Post by: Unknown Target on April 13, 2004, 01:28:40 pm: Wow! Very purdy!
You deleted one half of it, and are gonna flip the one side when you're done, right? :)
But it really looks like a spaceship now!
Title: Return of the.....
Post by: Raptor on April 13, 2004, 02:04:27 pm: Quote
Originally posted by Unknown Target
Wow! Very purdy!
You deleted one half of it, and are gonna flip the one side when you're done, right? :)
But it really looks like a spaceship now!

Glad you approve, though I do wonder if I've put in TOO many windows...:doubt:

For the record: I've only modelled half, and once it's finished nad UVmapped, I'll use TS6's Mirrior modeller to add the starboard side.;)
Title: Return of the.....
Post by: karajorma on April 13, 2004, 02:27:47 pm: Quote
Originally posted by Raptor
For the record: I've only modelled half, and once it's finished nad UVmapped, I'll use TS6's Mirrior modeller to add the starboard side.;)

That mirror modeller is a wonder isn't it? :D
Title: Return of the.....
Post by: Sandwich on April 13, 2004, 03:16:57 pm: Quote
Originally posted by karajorma

That mirror modeller is a wonder isn't it? :D

:wtf: Anything semi-decent can do a mirror image of an object.
Title: Return of the.....
Post by: karajorma on April 13, 2004, 03:20:26 pm: Quote
Originally posted by Sandwich
:wtf: Anything semi-decent can do a mirror image of an object.

Yeah but before TS6 you could have all kinds of problems using TS :D And speaking as one former user of TS3.2 talking to another I knew that Raptor had probably been through the same problems :)
Title: Return of the.....
Post by: Sandwich on April 13, 2004, 04:13:52 pm: Ahh, gotcha. All you had to say was "TS" in the same sentence as "problem". ;)
Title: Return of the.....
Post by: Raptor on April 13, 2004, 04:49:26 pm: All too true Kara, all too true...

Some more Screenies!
(http://www.angelfire.com/space2/raptorsnest/Aeolus-stage9-1.jpg)
Some windows for the bridge.

(http://www.angelfire.com/space2/raptorsnest/Aeolus-stage9-2.jpg)
Another row of windows above the forward engines.

(http://www.angelfire.com/space2/raptorsnest/Aeolus-stage9-3.jpg)
This is how I see the bridge beening laid out. extra height room with a raised central area for the captain (Think the orginal 'Battlestar Galactica' bridge and you won't go to far wrong;) ). The red box shows the confines of the bridge, while the green figures are to scale. The grey lines show the levels of both the decks and the 'cealing' (what is the correct nautical term for that:confused: )

(http://www.angelfire.com/space2/raptorsnest/Aeolus-stage9-4.jpg)
This is just a bit of fun, showing how a human can see out of the (revised) windows. Each window is 2 meters wide and 0.5 meters high.

Ya, 600 posts!
Title: Return of the.....
Post by: Nico on April 13, 2004, 04:58:57 pm: can we have a full shot with the mirrored part as well?
Title: Return of the.....
Post by: Sandwich on April 14, 2004, 12:57:42 am: ...and a green stick figure for scale! :D
Title: Return of the.....
Post by: Raptor on April 14, 2004, 07:25:02 am: Okay, here is the 'complete' version. I've added both a human and a Hercules, both correct scale (1:10). The human is that little green blob:lol:

(http://www.angelfire.com/space2/raptorsnest/Aeolus-stage9-5.jpg)
(http://www.angelfire.com/space2/raptorsnest/Aeolus-stage9-6.jpg)
(http://www.angelfire.com/space2/raptorsnest/Aeolus-stage9-7.jpg)
(http://www.angelfire.com/space2/raptorsnest/Aeolus-stage9-8.jpg)
This last one...rethinking turret size...dorsal (top) or ventral (bottom) set?(the dorsal ones are a third bigger)
Title: Return of the.....
Post by: Admiral Nelson on April 14, 2004, 08:12:20 am: I think the ventral turrets are better. The dorsal turretss seem out of proportion to me.

Thanks for your work, it's looking good! :)
Title: Return of the.....
Post by: Black Wolf on April 14, 2004, 12:56:53 pm: Err, how many polys is that? Sure, Hi polyfication is awesome, but going overboard is never a good thing.

The wireframe looks fairly efficient, but still, a poly number'd be nice to set my mind at ease:)
Title: Return of the.....
Post by: Sandwich on April 14, 2004, 01:17:13 pm: IMHO the first thing I'd take out to make room for other things would be the windows - those look like wasted polies unless you're touching them. A decent hi-res window texture + glowmaps + (eventual) bump mapping could do the job just as well for a lot cheaper. ;)

But yeah, looks great, although there are some parts that still need greeblage (nose, top, and bottom) IMHO.
Title: Return of the.....
Post by: Raptor on April 14, 2004, 01:19:20 pm: Quote
Originally posted by Black Wolf
Err, how many polys is that? Sure, Hi polyfication is awesome, but going overboard is never a good thing.

The wireframe looks fairly efficient, but still, a poly number'd be nice to set my mind at ease:)

Well, I haven't fully trianglated it yet (If I can, I don't split faces into triangles), but ATM the whole LOD0 mesh is sitting at 1958 polys.

So, with complete trianglation, we're looking at around 2.5-3K. There are some areas were I can lope off polys though. Remove some windows, mainly:nervous:

EDIT: Well Sandwich, I'm finding it hard to greble the bow, due to all the angled faces, while the top and bottom, well...
Title: Return of the.....
Post by: Black Wolf on April 14, 2004, 01:31:21 pm: Wow - that really is an efficient mesh. Commendations for the detail then.:nod:
Title: Return of the.....
Post by: Taristin on April 14, 2004, 01:37:18 pm: Isn't 1958x2...*thinks*... 3916? 4000 polies when the game triangulates it?
Title: Return of the.....
Post by: IceFire on April 14, 2004, 11:30:48 pm: Two comments:

I think it may be efficient to remove some of the window details and keep the savings. Use textures to explore some of that.

The flak turrets and the heavy pulse turrets...great distinction but I think the flak turrets could be shorter. Just looks a bit off.

Love the design work however...Aeolus never looked so good!
Title: Return of the.....
Post by: Nico on April 15, 2004, 01:51:10 am: Well, that helps, since it never looked good :p
Title: Return of the.....
Post by: Col. Fishguts on April 15, 2004, 04:40:15 am: Looking good...but yes, the windows are maybe a bit overkill, compared to the rest of the ship.
The bridge is cool, but imagine what happens, when a Treb impacts there.....BOOM....and the ship is out of control.

EDIT: The smaller turrets are better, IMHO
Title: Return of the.....
Post by: Janos on April 15, 2004, 05:00:31 am: Hmmm.

I kinda always thought that the bridge of Aeolus were somewhere near the engines or at the rear part of the "nose" of the ship - like a drag car or something..? Because honestly, when the bridge is in the front the ship looks more vulnerable than it is (it's a goddamn Aeolus :D ) and a bit funny.

Just my two cents though.
Title: Return of the.....
Post by: Sheepy on April 15, 2004, 06:24:29 am: wasn't mik going to try and edit this some?
Title: Return of the.....
Post by: Raptor on April 15, 2004, 06:27:53 am: Quote
Originally posted by Black Wolf
Wow - that really is an efficient mesh. Commendations for the detail then.:nod:

Thankyou. Glad you think so:nod:

Quote
Originally posted by Raa Tor'h
Isn't 1958x2...*thinks*... 3916? 4000 polies when the game triangulates it?

No, that would be 2 ships. When I stated 1958, I had already done the mirrior calculations. The current half mesh only has 980 polys.

@Icefire: When you say the flak turrets could be shorter, do you mean the barrels, or the whole turret?

Very happy you like the ship;)

@Col.Fishguts:Simple answer to that: extra heavy armour:D

The windows may go, at least some of them.

As for the Bridge, well, we're never told where the bridge is cannonically, but I've always been partial to a (slightly) exposed bridge.
Title: Return of the.....
Post by: Unknown Target on April 15, 2004, 06:29:57 am: Wow...I'm amazed at how efficient that mesh is!
Title: Return of the.....
Post by: karajorma on April 15, 2004, 08:16:09 am: Quote
Originally posted by Raptor
No, that would be 2 ships. When I stated 1958, I had already done the mirrior calculations. The current half mesh only has 980 polys.

I think he meant when you triangulate that you'll turn all the quads into triangles so you'll at least double the poly count.

Not a very accurate method though. Although most TS models have lots of quads they often have many higher order polys too so the triangulated count is often much more than just double the poly count.
Title: Return of the.....
Post by: Nico on April 15, 2004, 09:54:44 am: Quote
Originally posted by Unknown Target
Wow...I'm amazed at how efficient that mesh is!

I don't, I'm 100% sure the final ( guessed ) polycount is way off :p
Title: Return of the.....
Post by: Flaser on April 15, 2004, 10:12:54 am: Quote
Originally posted by Raptor

As for the Bridge, well, we're never told where the bridge is cannonically, but I've always been partial to a (slightly) exposed bridge.

I think the Gundam saga had the perfect solution for the bridge exposure problem:

The ships were actually built with 2 bridges, a panoramic bridge that allowed a great overview of the surrounding area, and a battle-bridge ('sentou-bridge'), which was well armored and deeper in the hull.

When the ship entered grave combat, the bridge personal could quickly move from one to another, 'cause the seats were railed to allow quick tranfer. They also put on normal-suits (spacesuits that offered a tad more protection), so a hull-break wouldn't kill anyone.

I think the same method could be used by corvettes, while cruisers would have only a semi-exposed bridge more heavily armored than the observation-bridge of a corvette.

Destroyers would only have a heavly armored bridge deep in the hull of the ship, with several observation stations to give visual aid. - Those ships are too big anyway to be overseen by a single bridge.

That said big ships could have a secondary bridge - the Aeolis would greatly benefit from a secondary, "tactical"-bridge on its aft section.

A Hecate could have 3 of these tacical/observation bridges (fore, aft-high and low) and a main bridge deep in the hull.
Title: Return of the.....
Post by: Raptor on April 15, 2004, 10:32:58 am: Okay, I just did a quick check. Used TS default trianglation function, de-Tri'ed the mirrior face, then calculated the 'true' face count.

It's now looking at 4934 triangles total (includes both sides) :shaking:. However I feel that a manually trianglated would be less.:nervous: The TS default is not efficient. Also, I have added some extra detail on top of the ship, and there is vast areas which I hadn't trianglated when I quoted that figure.

@Flaser:I'd expect that, like modern (or at least WW2) ships, the ships 2IC/XO would have a battle station some were other than the bridge. In fact, I have a fanfic planed (that would go with my planed campain;7 ), were the GTC Aggripa's 2IC was at her battle station, with engineering, when the main bridge was lost. (she's one of the main chacters;) )
Title: Return of the.....
Post by: Flaser on April 15, 2004, 10:41:12 am: I wasn't refering to battlestations only, it's the double bridge setup I was emphasising.

Loosing the main bridge could be catastrophic - so it should be more protected - therefore it would be deep inside the hull.

The double bridge setup would allow a great flexibility - which is ideal for a corvette class ships. It would take up too much space on a cruiser, and would be too expensive and won't give enough pluss on a destroyer.

The setup is like this(very raw abstract):

Obs..../----------\
_____|.......,_,.....|______
|Bttl..|...............|
Title: Return of the.....
Post by: Unknown Target on April 15, 2004, 11:07:35 am: Quote
Originally posted by Raptor

It's now looking at 4934 triangles total (includes both sides)

Still not that bad, considering all those details you put in.
Title: Return of the.....
Post by: karajorma on April 15, 2004, 11:08:36 am: Quote
Originally posted by Raptor
Okay, I just did a quick check. Used TS default trianglation function, de-Tri'ed the mirrior face, then calculated the 'true' face count.

It's now looking at 4934 triangles total (includes both sides) :shaking:. However I feel that a manually trianglated would be less.:nervous: The TS default is not efficient. Also, I have added some extra detail on top of the ship, and there is vast areas which I hadn't trianglated when I quoted that figure.

Considering that Karma's Fenris was around 7000 that's really not that much different. :D

Cut down those polys on the windows and you'd have another 1000 or so for detailing elsewhere :)
Title: Return of the.....
Post by: StratComm on April 15, 2004, 11:12:52 am: Quote
Originally posted by Raptor
It's now looking at 4934 triangles total (includes both sides) :shaking:. However I feel that a manually trianglated would be less.:nervous: The TS default is not efficient. Also, I have added some extra detail on top of the ship, and there is vast areas which I hadn't trianglated when I quoted that figure.

That's not true. There is no such thing as a more or less efficient triangulation. Yes, there are multiple ways to triangulate a face, but you will find that they all come to the exact same number of triangles. So manual triangulation isn't going to buy you anything but a waste of time (as the final mesh can easily be untriantulated). The problem is all of the windows, that's a texture detail rather than something intended for mesh-level construction unless you're going truely high-poly which no real-time render can handle.
Title: Return of the.....
Post by: karajorma on April 15, 2004, 11:24:15 am: Quote
Originally posted by StratComm
That's not true. There is no such thing as a more or less efficient triangulation. Yes, there are multiple ways to triangulate a face, but you will find that they all come to the exact same number of triangles. So manual triangulation isn't going to buy you anything but a waste of time (as the final mesh can easily be untriantulated). The problem is all of the windows, that's a texture detail rather than something intended for mesh-level construction unless you're going truely high-poly which no real-time render can handle.

That's true however there are two important poly counts for a HTL ship. The triangulated count and the number of polys the ship has when converted.

The first affects the speed of the model in-game and the second affects the filesize and loading time.

Raptor may have been on about getting the second figure as efficient as possible. Karma's Fenris for instance loses a couple of thousend polys when untriangulated and would probably load quicker that way (don't know if doing that would mess up the UV maps though).
Title: Return of the.....
Post by: Raptor on April 15, 2004, 12:16:18 pm: Well, at least I've got something right:)

Some more screenies.
(http://www.angelfire.com/space2/raptorsnest/Aeolus-stage10-1.jpg)
Detail behind the dorsal plasma turret.

(http://www.angelfire.com/space2/raptorsnest/Aeolus-stage10-2.jpg)
Top of the rear engine block.

(http://www.angelfire.com/space2/raptorsnest/Aeolus-stage10-3.jpg)
The Aeolus can now give you 'The Evil Eye':drevil:

I do plan to remove the windows, but I think I'll wait till I've UV mapped it, so the windows on the texture are alined with the model plan.

(http://www.angelfire.com/space2/raptorsnest/Aeolus-stage10-4.jpg)
This last one...rethinking side turret setup...option A or B? (Ignore the different colours).
Title: Return of the.....
Post by: Taristin on April 15, 2004, 12:23:32 pm: :wtf:

Point on top, or flat top? Is that what you're on about? I doubt anyone'll really notice much difference.
Title: Return of the.....
Post by: diamondgeezer on April 15, 2004, 02:29:44 pm: Point on top
Title: Return of the.....
Post by: Nico on April 15, 2004, 02:37:31 pm: nm
Title: Return of the.....
Post by: Raptor on April 16, 2004, 03:43:30 am: Quote
Originally posted by Raa Tor'h
:wtf:

Point on top, or flat top? Is that what you're on about? I doubt anyone'll really notice much difference.

Yea, that's basically it.
Title: Return of the.....
Post by: Janos on April 16, 2004, 05:24:12 am: Who cares? :p

Flat on top.
Title: Return of the.....
Post by: aldo_14 on April 16, 2004, 01:06:22 pm: Flat-top.

Dunno why - just cos.
Title: Return of the.....
Post by: Trivial Psychic on April 16, 2004, 01:07:50 pm: Stop me if I'm wrong, but aren't those turrets supposed to be those ones that stick out a bit from the hull and slope upwards, with the six (or so) holes on the front. Take a look at the original and you'll see what I mean.
Title: Return of the.....
Post by: Raptor on April 16, 2004, 03:45:04 pm: Quote
Originally posted by Trivial Psychic
Stop me if I'm wrong, but aren't those turrets supposed to be those ones that stick out a bit from the hull and slope upwards, with the six (or so) holes on the front. Take a look at the original and you'll see what I mean.

Yea, these are the replacements. I HATED those side guns. I hated the design, the mapping, everything about them. I'm a firm beliver that the design of a turret should reflect the type of weapon it's fitted with, were possible.

They (V) used the same turets on the Hecate. That's partly why at some point I'll do a re-turreted version of the Hecate, replacing those silly, ugly blocks for some REAL turrets.

(rant over)

I'm surprised no-one commented on the third screenie. Guess it's completely clear, eh?
Title: Return of the.....
Post by: Trivial Psychic on April 16, 2004, 11:50:26 pm: I'm a little more concerned that your turrets on these locations resemble more beam cannons that flak turrets, which they are supposed to be IIRC... or are these just the "destroyed" version of the turret sub-objects?
Title: Return of the.....
Post by: Raptor on April 17, 2004, 05:46:40 am: Quote
Originally posted by Trivial Psychic
I'm a little more concerned that your turrets on these locations resemble more beam cannons that flak turrets, which they are supposed to be IIRC... or are these just the "destroyed" version of the turret sub-objects?

In the original tbl,one of the guns was a flak gun yes, but the other was an AAA.

I know they both look a little beamish, but then again, that could be said for nearly all the turrets on the Fenris/Lev, the Deimos, etc...

It's hard coming up with a decent looking side mounted turret that doesn't look like a beam port in shape. Guess I'd better texture those two, maybe then the differance will be clearer.

While I'm at it, I'll also redo the texturing on the main sections of the dorsal/ventral turrets (You might have noticed that the screenies above don't have textures on them). I messed up the texturing. Might alter shape a little too.
Title: Return of the.....
Post by: Sandwich on April 17, 2004, 06:07:45 am: IIRC you CAN do multipart turrets on the sides of a ship as well as top and bottom - they just need to be aligned to the XYZ axes.
Title: Return of the.....
Post by: Setekh on April 17, 2004, 06:26:10 am: Dorsal turret looks nice and sleek. :) I say point on top for the turrets, btw. ;)
Title: a comment reguarding side rotating turrets......
Post by: Pilot Of The US on April 17, 2004, 03:42:08 pm: Hmm, does this mean that someone could redo the side turrets on the Deimos so it looks more like the one on the boxart.

Or is this just possible for single barrel rotating turrets, and not twin or triple ones.

Because i belive the Deimos was supposed to have a couple of twin barrel rotating side turrets.
Title: Return of the.....
Post by: StratComm on April 17, 2004, 03:58:41 pm: IIRC it doesn't work. Multiparts must pivot around the vertical axis, no exceptions. I don't know where Sandwich got that.
Title: Return of the.....
Post by: Sandwich on April 17, 2004, 04:40:56 pm: Quote
Originally posted by StratComm
IIRC it doesn't work. Multiparts must pivot around the vertical axis, no exceptions. I don't know where Sandwich got that.

Are you sure they cannot be oriented along the horizontal? I seem to recall that they cannot be at an angle to any of the main axes.

IIRC Ace did up a model platform ages ago that was "L" shaped, with multipart turrets on both parts.
Title: Return of the.....
Post by: aldo_14 on April 17, 2004, 04:56:45 pm: I think I had a single part flak turret on a (very) old model which rotated on the x-axis (i.e. was side mounted) to fire..... but I'm sure that multiparts need to have the barrel-part orientated straight along the y-axis.
Title: Return of the.....
Post by: Raptor on April 18, 2004, 05:37:25 am: Just to let you guys know, I've redone the Dorsla/Ventral turrets for the Aeolus. Any other FS2 era craft I do would use these.

(http://www.angelfire.com/space2/raptorsnest/New-FS2-Turrets.jpg)
Twin Flak to the left, triple plasma to the right. All the Parts are interchangeable;) All parts are now UVmapped to boot. Hopefully I won't mess these ones up like I did with the last set.:nervous:

Concerning the Aeolus, I'm seriously considering removing that cut away above the forward engines. I'm not happy with it.

(http://www.angelfire.com/space2/raptorsnest/Aeolus-stage9-2.jpg)
Title: Return of the.....
Post by: Pilot Of The US on April 18, 2004, 06:17:45 am: How about using the triple plasma turret on the top/bottom of the Orion class destroyer, because IIRC, i saw them on the Orion which was on the FreeSpace: Silent Threat boxart. aswell as in FS2.

Hey sandwich, you still got that L-shaped platform. Id like to have a look at it.
Title: Return of the.....
Post by: Nico on April 18, 2004, 06:33:10 am: Quote
Originally posted by Sandwich
IIRC you CAN do multipart turrets on the sides of a ship as well as top and bottom - they just need to be aligned to the XYZ axes.

No, stratcomm is right. Technically, you CAN, but they'll completly mess up while rotating.
Title: Return of the.....
Post by: Sandwich on April 18, 2004, 08:52:43 am: Quote
Originally posted by Pilot Of The US
Hey sandwich, you still got that L-shaped platform. Id like to have a look at it.

No, I don't think I ever "had" it - I just saw a screenie of it.
Title: Return of the.....
Post by: Raptor on April 18, 2004, 09:13:58 am: Quote
Originally posted by Pilot Of The US
How about using the triple plasma turret on the top/bottom of the Orion class destroyer, because IIRC, i saw them on the Orion which was on the FreeSpace: Silent Threat boxart. aswell as in FS2.

I already did redo the turrets on the Orion. Check my Sig;)

I'm planing on overhauling that turret setup actually. Planing to include turrets I created for the new HT&L Fenris.:D

Technicaly, yes you can MODEL side mounted MP turrets, but they never work right, so don't bother IIRC
Title: Return of the.....
Post by: KARMA on April 18, 2004, 09:19:31 am: Just to show my ignorance...
can you have single part turretts rotating 360° around a centerpoint?
I mean a turrett made of a simple single barrel, rotating in any direction around its base
Title: Return of the.....
Post by: Setekh on April 19, 2004, 08:03:40 am: Hmmm, those new turrets are nice. :) Ummm, could you pleasepost shots of the old turrets alongside those, just for comparison? :nod:
Title: Return of the.....
Post by: Raptor on April 19, 2004, 01:12:42 pm: Here you go Setekh.

(http://www.angelfire.com/space2/raptorsnest/CompareTurrets.jpg)
New version on the left (both views), old on the right. The new one does have UVmapping, but I have yet to texture it.
Title: Return of the.....
Post by: KARMA on April 20, 2004, 02:30:29 pm: ehm... bump:)
Quote
Originally posted by KARMA

can you have single part turretts rotating 360° around a centerpoint?
I mean a turrett made of a simple single barrel, rotating in any direction around its base
Title: Return of the.....
Post by: Raptor on April 20, 2004, 02:49:54 pm: Dont' know KARMA, never tried it. It could rotate in around one axis, but I doubt you could get it to rotate fully:doubt:
Title: Return of the.....
Post by: KARMA on April 20, 2004, 02:53:05 pm: well the FOV can't be obviously higher than 180
Title: Return of the.....
Post by: Raptor on April 23, 2004, 11:02:03 am: BUMP!:D

The redone forward section of decking. No windows this time.
http://www.angelfire.com/space2/raptorsnest/Aeolus-stage11-1.jpg

I've also redone the upper surfaces of the 'spar' between the forward hull and the main engines.
http://www.angelfire.com/space2/raptorsnest/Aeolus-stage11-2.jpg

Next I'll try to work along the keel...;)
Title: Return of the.....
Post by: Unknown Target on April 23, 2004, 11:06:43 am: Purdy :)
Title: Return of the.....
Post by: Lt.Cannonfodder on April 23, 2004, 11:31:40 am: Quote
Originally posted by Unknown Target
Purdy :)

Indeed. I'll have to redo my Shivan Attack -animation using your model :nod:
Title: Return of the.....
Post by: Sandwich on April 24, 2004, 08:12:03 pm: What are you using to render those views, Raptor? They're terribly solarized (color banding).
Title: Return of the.....
Post by: Raptor on April 25, 2004, 02:52:57 am: Quote
Originally posted by Sandwich
What are you using to render those views, Raptor? They're terribly solarized (color banding).

Truespace's own 'renderscene', import into PSP, crop/resize, then jpg save at 25% compression.

@Lt.C: and while your at that, maybe you could redo the Shivan attack on the vigilant;)
Title: Return of the.....
Post by: Lt.Cannonfodder on April 25, 2004, 03:04:46 am: Quote
Originally posted by Raptor
@Lt.C: and while your at that, maybe you could redo the Shivan attack on the vigilant;)[/COLOR]

One thing at a time. Now finish that model :D
Title: Return of the.....
Post by: Jonathan_S47 on June 10, 2004, 06:52:23 pm: *Bumped from the abyss* :nervous:

Has there been any development on this lately?
Title: Return of the.....
Post by: Raptor on June 11, 2004, 05:55:58 am: Well, since this threads been bumped (by quite a bit)...

Yes, there has been progress lately. Was distracted by Revision:eek2:, Exams:eek:, and modeling an HTL *****;7. But I've had a look at it (the Aeolus) again, and I'm ready to attempt to UVmap it.

Would post screenies, but can't right now.:hopping:
(Just in case, does anyone see the images I posted here?)

Is there anyone willing to texture this ship? My own texturing skills don't come close enough to do this ship justice.:(
Title: Return of the.....
Post by: jdjtcagle on June 11, 2004, 09:13:24 am: Post the pics in a seperate post
Title: Return of the.....
Post by: Jonathan_S47 on June 11, 2004, 02:51:23 pm: When I copy and past the URL for the picture into the address bar the image comes up just fine.
Title: Return of the.....
Post by: Krackers87 on June 12, 2004, 12:13:08 am: the jaggys sear my eyes, i plead for a better render!
Title: Return of the.....
Post by: Raptor on June 14, 2004, 03:11:51 pm: Ok, some new pics!

Their rendered in TS, with AntiAlias on at 4x. Just for Krackers87;)

(Copy/Paste links)

http://www.angelfire.com/space2/raptorsnest/Aeolus-stage13-1.jpg
http://www.angelfire.com/space2/raptorsnest/Aeolus-stage13-2.jpg
http://www.angelfire.com/space2/raptorsnest/Aeolus-stage13-3.jpg
Title: Return of the.....
Post by: Taristin on June 14, 2004, 04:24:40 pm: You know how much angelfire sucks... It won't even let me copy paste into the browser. :doubt:
Title: Return of the.....
Post by: Raptor on June 14, 2004, 04:33:58 pm: Yeap.

It used to be nice, allowing me to post screenies straight in. Now it refuses:doubt:

Not sure about that bug of yours though:confused:

If anyone knows of any free/dirt cheap web-shell type sites, I'd be very intrested (all that is needed is somewhere to store images and downloads)
Title: Return of the.....
Post by: Singh on June 14, 2004, 04:36:06 pm: try www.sphosting.com

30Megs free.........

works for me :)
Title: Return of the.....
Post by: Taristin on June 14, 2004, 05:01:46 pm: Or you could ask an0n for hosting at NodeWar. He's very generous, so long as you don't cross him. :nod:
Title: Return of the.....
Post by: Jonathan_S47 on June 14, 2004, 06:23:29 pm: The Aeolus is defiantly looking good. Can’t wait to see it when it finally gets textured.
Title: Return of the.....
Post by: Janos on June 17, 2004, 04:51:58 am: Quote
Originally posted by Singh
try www.sphosting.com

30Megs free.........

works for me :)

Or you can always go for www.imageshack.us
Title: Return of the.....
Post by: redmenace on November 30, 2004, 12:45:52 pm: *bump*

So whats going on with this?
Could you finish this for the media vps.
Title: Return of the.....
Post by: Lightspeed on November 30, 2004, 02:08:35 pm: Someone will have to apply the textures to this one.
Title: Return of the.....
Post by: redmenace on November 30, 2004, 02:09:51 pm: Anytakers. Anyone even have the POF?
Title: Return of the.....
Post by: Vasudan Admiral on December 01, 2004, 01:03:19 am: I'll be looking into it soonish - along with updating the fenris and finishing the triton off hopefully.
Title: Return of the.....
Post by: redmenace on December 01, 2004, 02:10:57 am: I will have to talk to WMCoolmon about delaying they HiPoly VP.

What is the Triton?
Title: Return of the.....
Post by: Vasudan Admiral on December 01, 2004, 02:54:13 am: (http://www.sectorfiles.com/ti-file-dump/VasudanAdmiral/WebScreens/HTLTriton2.jpg)
It just needs me to stick on Raptors shiny new turrets, Lighty or another map upgrade Guru to fix the terrible shine map, and it will be done. :)
More pics in this thread: http://www.sectorgame.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=1203
Title: Return of the.....
Post by: DaBrain on December 01, 2004, 03:04:20 am: Looks like the perfect map for bump-shine maps.
But it's hard to do for tiles...
Title: Return of the.....
Post by: Vasudan Admiral on December 01, 2004, 03:53:14 am: It uses a single 2048 res map - no tiles, and the map res can be reduced by half without a hugely noticable difference for performance issues. :)
You want to have a shot at the shine map then?
Title: Return of the.....
Post by: redmenace on December 01, 2004, 12:06:08 pm: same model though right?
Title: Return of the.....
Post by: aldo_14 on December 01, 2004, 02:10:32 pm: New one, I thought. Raptor was definately modelling one, I know that much - I presume this would be it.
Title: Return of the.....
Post by: Vasudan Admiral on December 01, 2004, 03:23:19 pm: No, new model based on the old one:
http://www.sectorfiles.com/ti-file-dump/VasudanAdmiral/Triton-HTL_WIP4.jpg
http://www.sectorfiles.com/ti-file-dump/VasudanAdmiral/Triton-HTL_WIP5.jpg

Raptor was working on the Aeolus, but not a Triton AFAIK. He has made some new turrets for it though - which is just about all i need to add to complete it. :)
Title: Return of the.....
Post by: redmenace on December 01, 2004, 04:20:28 pm: lol well whenever you get ahold of him, ask him for the aelos as well please.
Title: Return of the.....
Post by: DaBrain on December 01, 2004, 04:55:34 pm: I'm pretty busy right now...
So I'd better finish some other things first.
Title: Return of the.....
Post by: Taristin on December 01, 2004, 05:23:50 pm: No tiles, eh?

*looks it over*

*notices custom plating, and th elike that could not be done with regular tiles*

*is impressed*

Great work (as usual) Vasad! :)
Title: Return of the.....
Post by: Raptor on December 04, 2004, 08:55:48 am: Quote
Originally posted by redmenace
lol well whenever you get ahold of him, ask him for the aelos as well please.

Well, VA's got the turrets I made now....

As for the Aeolus, I thought I released the UV'ed mesh?:wtf: I can sort out a new file, but I doubt I'll ever get angelfire working again.

I know someone asked about it a few weeks ago (VA?) and found the link, but Ican't remember where...:doubt:
Title: Return of the.....
Post by: Eviscerator on December 04, 2004, 05:18:09 pm: Is there something wrong with uploading it//submitting it to one of the several mod databases that are just otherwise gathering dust?

Why is everybody beating themselves over the head looking for hosting space when we have this untapped resource already at hand??? :confused:
Title: Return of the.....
Post by: Vasudan Admiral on December 04, 2004, 08:50:14 pm: Got the turrets now yeah, and almost finished textuing them.

And yes you did upload an alpha version a long while ago - here: http://www.geocities.com/vasudanad/Aeolus.zip

Edit: done
(http://www.geocities.com/vasudanad/TritonTurret1.txt)

http://www.geocities.com/vasudanad/TritonTurret2.txt
Title: Return of the.....
Post by: Raptor on December 05, 2004, 08:02:01 am: Quote
Originally posted by Eviscerator
Is there something wrong with uploading it//submitting it to one of the several mod databases that are just otherwise gathering dust?

Why is everybody beating themselves over the head looking for hosting space when we have this untapped resource already at hand??? :confused:

uughhh... Never really looked into doing so, so have idea how to do so....:nervous:

Lame, I know:o

Next time.
Title: Return of the.....
Post by: Singh on December 05, 2004, 08:11:49 am: dude! Those turrets would be perfect for the Deimos or even the Orion!
Title: Return of the.....
Post by: FireCrack on December 05, 2004, 01:47:35 pm: Yeah, that is a preety awesome gun, looks like flak.
Title: Return of the.....
Post by: Raptor on December 11, 2004, 09:57:56 am: Was intended as a general purpose turret.

You should see my new railgun turrets:D
Title: Return of the.....
Post by: NGTM-1R on December 11, 2004, 11:52:42 am: But does it have two firepoints, or one?
Title: w00t!
Post by: Eviscerator on December 11, 2004, 01:49:54 pm: Quote
Originally posted by Raptor
Was intended as a general purpose turret.

You should see my new railgun turrets:D

I have to see those rail gun turrets! I use massive rail guns as the main batteries for GTVA capships in my work.

Awesome work of the GP turrets. Major improvement
Title: Return of the.....
Post by: FireCrack on December 23, 2004, 07:23:12 pm: So, are there any updates on this?