Hard Light Productions Forums
Community Projects => The FreeSpace Upgrade Project => Topic started by: Gank on March 03, 2004, 08:05:01 pm
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(http://gallery.cybertarp.com/albums/userpics/14110/seth.jpg)
Not fully done, needs a few bits added and changed on top and the underside hasnt been touched at all yet but starting to take shape.
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Sweet
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vasudan fighter? interceptor.
it looks awesome.
High Poly Fighter.
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It's a seth..
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I thought Mentu cruiser at first. Then I thought Thoth.
In any case, it's a nice high-poly Vasudan thingy ;)
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You people are stupid, aren't you.
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no we are just special learners
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lol
nice work Gank, cant wait to see the finished product :)
-Grug
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Um, beautiful model, but maybe a bit too similar to the Horus and Seth?
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Originally posted by diamondgeezer
Um, beautiful model, but maybe a bit too similar to the Horus and Seth?
Um... he's trying to make a higher poly Seth... kind of like Bob's hi-poly Herc-I, or the Fenris, or Raptor's Aeolus (somewhat redux), or the RBC, or that Cerebrus sentry gun that someone was working on.
While we're on the subject of hi-poly FS ship remakes, I recently downloaded the .avi FS1 cutscenes from the server and noticed that the Arcadia in Ross 128 from the intro had some kind of fin extending from the bottom of the flat section, as well as several other poles and mast towers on the superstructure. It occurs to me that someone with talent and time should take a stab at creating a hi-poly Arcadia that matches these images.
Later!
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People should play FS1. Really, really bad.
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It's even flyable in a couple of FS2 missions. Not cool folks, you should know your FS canon craft :p
On the topic of the model, the cockpit looks too slender for the Seth model. I could be wrong, but I thought it had a huge bubble window on the front.
Oh, and Riveria Station had an experimental deflection grid of some kind (pre-shivan primitive shield) that it was testing. It's always been presumed that those masts were there for that purpose as to not cause inconsistancies.
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I love you. So much.
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cut the hull lines in, they're big enough to deserve being modelled :)
edited ( removed something I know I would postpone and finally not do :p )
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poly count?
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Originally posted by StratComm
Not cool folks, you should know your FS canon craft :p
yeah, i was suprised, too. i thought people had memorized whole missions, let alone know what every ship is. :no:
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Hi poly Seth...what for:wtf: in fight you don't see any details on him so what for create those ships they ony slows game. If you want do hi poli model take a cap ( Orion or Deimos ) not smal fighter:ick::ick:
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Originally posted by c914
Hi poly Seth...what for:wtf: in fight you don't see any details on him so what for create those ships they ony slows game. If you want do hi poli model take a cap ( Orion or Deimos ) not smal fighter:ick::ick:
I'm not sure how much experience Gank has with modeling, but it has been advised to some new modelers that its best to pick something small to start with. Such was the case with the buy modeling the Cerebrus (even though he called it Alastor, which was the FS2 sentry), who was new to modeling, so he started small to get a feel for it. Of course, that doesn't explain Bob and his Herc-1, but he may be the exception.
Originally posted by StratComm
Oh, and Riveria Station had an experimental deflection grid of some kind (pre-shivan primitive shield) that it was testing. It's always been presumed that those masts were there for that purpose as to not cause inconsistancies.
I was under the impression that a prototype shield was undergoing developpment there, but nothing to suggest that the station itself was equiped with said grid. For something like that you would start testing with a small device in some cargo bay... kind of like those test in the cutscene with the captured Shivan unit.
Later!
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I understand this
but my opinion abut hi poly model is that:
You want bulid hi poly something create a destroyer corvette but not fighter:mad2:. Why ? Becouse in missions there is much much more fighters than caps ( sometimes;) ).
Soo what if herc will look very good but in mission you can put them more than 5 ( if you hasn't got super powerful mainframe ;p ) and you can't see any detail on them. ( Danube version 2:ick: )
Soo what for:mad2:
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with the HT&L source, it's supposed not to be a pb having high polys ships. As for not seeing the fighters well enough, well, some people don't play on a 14" screen and can see them very well :p
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ohhh cmon guys it isn't that high poly, althought not viewing the wireframe it's hard to tell how much edges have been used for the rounded bits, so it could go from acceptable polycount to billions triangles...
anyway I don't see much strange in a 2k triangles fighter thesedays
btw gank.. very nice work;)
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oh, and gank already is an expert modeller:p
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Originally posted by Nico
with the HT&L source, it's supposed not to be a pb having high polys ships. As for not seeing the fighters well enough, well, some people don't play on a 14" screen and can see them very well :p
i've got 10" ( PLUS minus 7":D :p ) and i realy dont see difrent betwn rounded cube shape cannon and cylnder shape if im abut 15 meters near the ship.
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10"? :wtf:
anyway, yeah, for the gun barrels and stuff like that, I agree, but for the rest, no. FS fighters are too obviously very low poly for nowadays standards.
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10" it was joke:rolleyes: :p :p
ive got 17"
With FS fighter i agree:D but if they had better quality texsture they shood look much better.
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I, for one, LOVE to see any FS1-era ships remodded into hi-poly versions. Especially the V ones. And you can add little own touch for it - not too much, but enough to make the model shine. Small things. And I guess you can add detail as much as you want to something like Seth without losing the original feeling. That's a cool WIP.
Everyone's making their own huge behemoths (corv/jug/des/omfgitshuge frenzy), but remodeling old classic canon ships is IMHO :cool:. ****, I need to start to polish my n0n1337 TS sk1llz and start to remodel Horus and Apollo. Seeing those things in hi-poly versions would make my day.
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I'd make the anubis, but nobody would give a damn about it :p
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:eek: @ people who don't recognise the Seth.
The Seth might be my favourite fighter in the whole FS universe. I love it. :)
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StratCamm: Cockpit is correctly sized, the angle of the shots throwing you off.
Nico: Hull lines yeah maybe, see what the polycount is for what I've planned to do first.
Bobbau: 1700 ish atm, probably finish up between 2500-3000. Tris
c914: I'm doing a high poly seth because I want to. If you want high poly cap ships make em yourself. And lods are there to prevent slowdown with more than one on screen. I will try the Hatseput at some stage though, love that ship.
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yeah, the hatseput is probably the coolest capship of fs2 imo
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Originally posted by Gank
c914: I'm doing a high poly seth because I want to. If you want high poly cap ships make em yourself. And lods are there to prevent slowdown with more than one on screen. I will try the Hatseput at some stage though, love that ship.
Do what ever you want:nod:. I just post here my opinion abut all hi poly fighters and bombers.
BTW model realy looks god:yes: :D
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The issue is the same as it used to be with high poly missiles c914.
As Gank already precisly pointed out in his post - LODs are your friends.
Excelent work BTW.
Nico - the TVWP would give a lot more than a damn if you've done that.
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nice seth.
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Originally posted by KARMA
oh, and gank already is an expert modeller:p
He did that **** hot rebel corvette thingie for the SW mod, didn;t he?
Er, yeah - very nice. :nod:
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Ok, what happened to you guys? You forgot the Seth? How?! :D
Lol, and it looks great, though :) good work!
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no:)
corv is mine, he did the assault frigate, and many other models for SWNR (Star Wars conversion for Homeworld).
While homeworld may have different requirements than fs2, it still require modelling skills as usual:)
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Just a comment. I don't mean to be a jerk, the thing about community created high poly models is that they never seem to get finished. Like the Mjorlin(I think that is right). I am just hoping that these can get finished. I know you all have other projects+real life. but just a comment.
I love the in take vents by the way.
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Nice work, Gank!
What did happen with the Hi Poly Mjolinir? The last I saw DG and a couple of others were having a go at texturing it, zako, but that's the last I heard of it, zako.
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Originally posted by redmenace
Just a comment. I don't mean to be a jerk, the thing about community created high poly models is that they never seem to get finished. Like the Mjorlin(I think that is right). I am just hoping that these can get finished. I know you all have other projects+real life. but just a comment.
I love the in take vents by the way.
there have been so far
mjolnir -mikhael (as far as I know it's finished)
herc- bobboau (I think it's already finished too)
fenris- me and vasudan admiral (VA finished texturing she, and is sitting in my hard disk waiting for me to find the time to tweak a couple of things)
-aeolus in progress
-seth in progress
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Redmenace, its low priority atm compared to other work, the models near done though and I've had a few test runs at the textures and cant see any problems there so it'll be finished at some stage. I started it a while back as something to do when I got sick of sw ships but to be honest it gives me more headaches then they do.
c914 I know what your saying but I've never done a fighter and wanted to have a go at one.
Nico: Anubis?? Why dont ya pick something easier.
Btw has nobody ever started a project to upgrade all the original fs ships? I know theres a team called freespace upgrade but that seems to be a remake rather than facelift.
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Gank - What's the ETA on that beauty? I'd like to give that thing a spin and see how it performs on my box.
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Originally posted by Gank
Redmenace, its low priority atm compared to other work, the models near done though and I've had a few test runs at the textures and cant see any problems there so it'll be finished at some stage. I started it a while back as something to do when I got sick of sw ships but to be honest it gives me more headaches then they do.
c914 I know what your saying but I've never done a fighter and wanted to have a go at one.
Nico: Anubis?? Why dont ya pick something easier.
Btw has nobody ever started a project to upgrade all the original fs ships? I know theres a team called freespace upgrade but that seems to be a remake rather than facelift.
Well my main concern is that I would love to have a few finished high poly models for download for people to use with the SCP. I know it must be a low priority for you.
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Originally posted by KARMA
there have been so far
mjolnir -mikhael (as far as I know it's finished)
herc- bobboau (I think it's already finished too)
fenris- me and vasudan admiral (VA finished texturing she, and is sitting in my hard disk waiting for me to find the time to tweak a couple of things)
-aeolus in progress
-seth in progress
I thought the mjolnir had yet to be finished?
I knew the herc is infact finished.
but I wasn't sure about the fenris.
I think it would be nice to have a High poly model pack in the not so distant future.
I think there is a manticore somewhere being worked on that is just awesome looking.
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@ c914: Higher poly ships have better lightings. Otherwise, I agree with you about high poly fighters. Capships are in dire need for more polies.
But that model is not bad at all. I suppose it is not only a click on 'Smooth Quad divide' since it has some details. Have you modeled it completely on your own, or have you modified the [V] one?
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Originally posted by Nico
I'd make the anubis, but nobody would give a damn about it :p
so it could take on a high poly Ravana ? :p
(did I remember that correctly ?) :p
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Originally posted by redmenace
I think there is a manticore somewhere being worked on that is just awesome looking.
yes I've not added the manticore 'cause I don't know exactly what Nico wants to do with it
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oh, I also forgot Vasudan Admiral's Lucifer in progress
so the actual list is
-mijolnir
model by mikhael, texture by ?? (not sure if lightspeed or Galemp), I think but not sure that it's already in the media vp.
-herc
bobboau, should be completed afaik
-fenris
almost done, will need someone for turretts and conversion, thought, model by me and textures by Vasudan Admiral
-aeolus in progress
-seth in progress
-manticore in progress
-lucifer in progress
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Originally posted by Gank
Nico: Anubis?? Why dont ya pick something easier.
Do you know who you're talking to??? :D
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I had no idea there was a lucifer in the works. thats pretty awesome. now the nice thing about the fenris is you can modify it to be a leviathen easily. You can use it in say an addition to the port in addition to the seth and the Manticore( think the manticore is a fs1 ship)
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Originally posted by TopAce
But that model is not bad at all. I suppose it is not only a click on 'Smooth Quad divide' since it has some details. Have you modeled it completely on your own, or have you modified the [V] one?
I'm very insulted. Every bit modeled from scratch, in rhino I might add. Smooth quad divide is not a tool at my disposal (unless its in max, but I only use that for texturing as it has a tendancy to crash at least once every 2 minutes)
UT: It was sarcasm. Anubis would probably be the easiest fighter to redo. bar some of the shivan flying bricks.
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Redoing it would obviously mean that it wouldn't look like a 2 minutes job anymore, don't you think? :p
As for the manticore, I just don't feel like finishing it, one reason being, whenever I'm working on a shivan ship, I want to redesign most parts to my liking ( more in the style of the concept pics, the shivan shps there looked much more alien, why did they have to go with the "pointy terran" look ? ).
Then everybody would scream to blasphemy for changing the oh so holy FS design, and I'd have done all that for nuts.
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Oh man, how did I miss this:eek2:
Great work, it's so...so...:cool:
only one thing, those oval depressions on the back, from the textures I thought they were raised bumps...:doubt:
Originally posted by KARMA
-fenris
almost done, will need someone for turretts and conversion, thought, model by me and textures by Vasudan Admiral
Say Karma, I'd be willing to do turreting for you. Remember, I'm the one who created better turrets for the Orion:D
Only thing is I can't convert it. I can handle Hi-poly .pofs and .cobs, but the version of PCS I've got crashs if I try to convert anything hi-poly (limit seems to be 4000 vertices within mesh):(
And Nico, please try to finsh that sweet Manticore. I'm sure that we will forgive any small tweaks if they improve the looks of it;)
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Let see: now, when I make a shivan ship, it has no thrusters anymore, I always use those red bricks FS1 ships had ( manticore already has two of those on the back end of the arms, so I shall remove the central thruster and put a third red thing in place of it ). I also like those white ( well, the concepts are black and white... ) big things that are used instead of your plain gun barrels. they look like radiation emiters of some sort.
So, anybody's fine with that? :p
For the record:
(http://www.swooh.com/premium/venom/fs2pics/crim34.jpg)
original manticore concept pic, in the top left corner.
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If you mean no thrusters as in engines the style of the Scorpion, then thats no problem to me.:nod:
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Originally posted by Raptor
only one thing, those oval depressions on the back, from the textures I thought they were raised bumps...:doubt:
Oh, and yeah, I agree.
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Just make it look good and like a Manticore. I, for one, am willing to lose some FS1-canon objects in favour of beefed and updated versions.
And Nico's right, many Shivan ships don't look alien enough. Nephilim, Mara and of course Demon are IMHO the pinnacles of Shivan design.
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bout the bumps, its not clear from the top two which way they're supposed to go so I went by the two similar parts on the underside where the shading suggests depressions.
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I think they would look better as bumps, to be honest.
That would make more sense, techwise, at least.
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Originally posted by Gank
bout the bumps, its not clear from the top two which way they're supposed to go so I went by the two similar parts on the underside where the shading suggests depressions.
Well, do them which ever way you feel is best.
@Nico: Just finish that SWEET manticore, THEN see what people think.:nod::yes:
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Originally posted by Gank
I'm very insulted.....
Hey hey hey! That was a very simple question! :eek:
How am I supposed to know that you made it from scratch?
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It's called tact TopAce. If your girlfriend cooked you dinner would you ask her if she got it out a tin? ;)
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and because any halfway decent modeller wouldn't do elseway:)
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Originally posted by karajorma
It's called tact TopAce. If your girlfriend cooked you dinner would you ask her if she got it out a tin? ;)
No, you'd go:
"did you do it youself? [darn, it tastes like ****!!!]
-why of course, do you like?
-It's absolutly delicious, my little sugar [ smooth!!!! gotta get laid tonight! ]
-I'm so glad you like! I spent two hours on it...
-[bingo! note to self: buy her a cooking book, tho]"
bwhehehe.
Karma:
I didn't model my manticore from scratch, so sheddap :p
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Originally posted by Nico
No, you'd go:
"did you do it youself? [darn, it tastes like ****!!!]
-why of course, do you like?
-It's absolutly delicious, my little sugar [ smooth!!!! gotta get laid tonight! ]
-I'm so glad you like! I spent two hours on it...
-[bingo! note to self: buy her a cooking book, tho]"
bwhehehe.
The hunk's way of doing things... you crazy guy :p
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Originally posted by karajorma
It's called tact TopAce. If your girlfriend cooked you dinner would you ask her if she got it out a tin? ;)
I was merely curious thats all. If I had a girlfriend, and she made dinner for me, I wouldn't ask it. :)
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Originally posted by Nico
Karma:
I didn't model my manticore from scratch, so sheddap :p
he, I always suspected that you suck:lol:
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Originally posted by TopAce
I was merely curious thats all. If I had a girlfriend, and she made dinner for me, I wouldn't ask it. :)
Well consider this a similar situation except you're not trying to get into Gank's pants. :D
Well I'm assuming your not :nervous:
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rofl, thats like some one I know, who sent me an email which said "EAT SHI^ AND DIE!", then later claimed it to only to be a joke and that I'm stupid for taking offense from it.
lol. But yeh, I would agree with you Nico, on making the shivans looking more alien. Sometimes I don't think they quiet look evil enough. Hopefully with the improved shinemaps and env mapping they can look much more mysterious and evil :D
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Originally posted by Nico
No, you'd go:
"did you do it youself? [darn, it tastes like ****!!!]
-why of course, do you like?
-It's absolutly delicious, my little sugar [ smooth!!!! gotta get laid tonight! ]
-I'm so glad you like! I spent two hours on it...
-[bingo! note to self: buy her a cooking book, tho]"
bwhehehe.
That'll be that Gallic charm in action, then.... :)
I think the Scots equivalent is " Nice grub. Fancy a shag?"
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topace, smooth quad divide is a messy way of doing things and with meshs as lowpoly as the original ships its next to useless. And it wasnt the question which annoyed me so much as the way it was worded.
nico, raptor, bulges would be easier to do and cut the polycount a bit, I'll do it both ways and see which one looks better textured. btw manticore? dont pick the akward ones do ya :p
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Originally posted by KARMA
-mijolnir
model by mikhael, texture by ?? (not sure if lightspeed or Galemp), I think but not sure that it's already in the media vp.
Really? I wasn't aware the textures were finalized. Anyone got pic?
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Originally posted by Gank
nico, raptor, bulges would be easier to do and cut the polycount a bit, I'll do it both ways and see which one looks better textured. btw manticore? dont pick the akward ones do ya :p
Actually, i like the indents. It looks more..unusual IMO.
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Originally posted by Nico
As for the manticore, I just don't feel like finishing it, one reason being, whenever I'm working on a shivan ship, I want to redesign most parts to my liking ( more in the style of the concept pics, the shivan shps there looked much more alien, why did they have to go with the "pointy terran" look ? ).
Do it. The canon ships are screwy.
Then everybody would scream to blasphemy for changing the oh so holy FS design, and I'd have done all that for nuts.
Who gives a damn what they think? All of us that recognize the hard work and talent you've put it will use your models. Besides, if everyone worried about sticking to 'canon', we wouldn't have mods.
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Originally posted by mikhael
Really? I wasn't aware the textures were finalized. Anyone got pic?
doh, sorry then, I just remembered some pics of a textured version, but probably I'm wrong
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Just to let yis know the models more or less finished, not completely happy with some bits though which I'll probably redo but once thats done I'll upload it if anyone wants to slap the violition texture on and put it ingame. I'll retexture it myself sometime, want to get a few other things done first. Did have a trial run at it before,
(http://gallery.cybertarp.com/albums/userpics/14110/top.png)
This a bit too organic looking for a fs1 era ship?
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Did you make the round things on the back stick out like they're supposed to?
I absolutely love the Seth, and I am so glad someone made it over. But... Bumps out. Not in...
And I'd go as far as to attempt a UVing job on it. :nod: That is if noone else has volunteered. Do more Vasudan Ships. :D
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The shading on the textures indicates in not out, but like I said I'll do it both ways. As for more, maybe . (http://gallery.cybertarp.com/albums/userpics/14110/thoth%7E0.jpg)
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Cool Seth!
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Originally posted by Gank
The shading on the textures indicates in not out, but like I said I'll do it both ways. As for more, maybe . (http://gallery.cybertarp.com/albums/userpics/14110/thoth%7E0.jpg)
Very Cool. Keep it up. I want them all. :)
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Hmmm, IMHO those plates are a tiny little bit too curvy and - you're right, organic. I think it would look better a little more uniform and with straighter edges. :)
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*bump*
How goes this? :D I'm about to start a Gank fan club.
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Havent got much done on anything lately, might get it finished at the weekend, depending on how much I drink.
Seketh, cheers for the feedback.
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Originally posted by Nico
I also like those white ( well, the concepts are black and white... ) big things that are used instead of your plain gun barrels. they look like radiation emiters of some sort.
So, anybody's fine with that? :p
Use the old triangular openings instead of the "radiation emitters" in the arms, make them guns, and scrap missiles entirely, and it would kick serious ****ing ass.
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Nah. That's too much a "Terran Alien" way of thinking. If Nico were to do it the way he says, it'd be awesome.
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But there's no obvious place for the gun blasts to come out, which is kind of confusing when such a ship fires.
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"Nico's thinking, and therefore rules, about the shivan ship designs ( I'm gonna repeat myself, I know )":
1) When the Ancients talk about the shivans, they're telling us about black ships. When I look at the ingame ships, I see grey and red ships. And even more red if you take the inferno ships.
-> I'd make them almost black, with a few, but very bright red parts, and light grey parts for the weapons ( as explained a couple points down )
2) I hate the normal thrusters, they look too terran. The red bricks on the FS1 ships were perfect to break that feeling. Any shivan ship I'd do would have NO thruster at all, but red bricks instead ( check my mod site in my sig, the hydra is faulty, the harpy and the chimera, tho, are that way )
3) weapons: I guess missile racks can't be helped, but primaries, no, no. No gun barrels, bad, bad! Take the manticore concept pic, I'd always do that way, now. The large, bright emitter thinguy. Pb is, that should come with custom weapon effects: I don't picture the usual laser bolt, but more something looking like a shockwave emited from those things. I have a clear picture of that in my mind actually, and I think it looks cool.
4) organic looking ships: some concept pics show the shivan ships being clearly technological, very anime'ish ( especially FS1 concepts ), but the FS2 ones have undergone a severe organic cure ( see the ravana or the sathanas concept pics ). Blargh, that sucks. Organic goes to vasudans, it fits well their style. Shivans are like cold, feelingless killing machines. What does that makes you think about? Robots, yeah. Shivans ships must look like high technology incarnated.
5) The dreaded spikes. Modders have a thing for shivans ships and spikes. On a basis, shivans ships have 4 large claws, not more. And that's NOT a general trait: the mara has them, the sathanas have them. No FS1 shivan ships have that. Half the FS2 ships don't either. They usually have large, squarish fins.
Spikes are bad, plus spikes leads to think spider, organic ( see point above ).
6) Many shivan ships have that red triangle thinguy on the front ( mara ), or something alike. It's not mandatory ( FS1 fighters don't have those, but the capships do ), but given the evolution in FS2, I think it's a good thing to have those. That's an original shape that screams "shivan" to me.
7) assymetry: many shivans ships are assymetrical, but as many are not. In my books, both are fine.
8) shivan ships look mean, even crappy ones like the nephilim. That's mandatory :p
9) SCP wise, I think high spec on shivan ships should work fine ( spec on black ships -> high contrast, gives character to the ship, and allows to see details that people would claim being hidden by the very dark color scheme )
Voila, that's all, I don't ask anybody to follow that, I'm just stating what you have to expect from me if I were to do another shivan ship.
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shivan ships look mean, even crappy ones like the nephilim. That's mandatory
The Nephilim is anything but crappy if you're using FS1 ships and weapons.
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You sure you're not mistaking with the seraphim? you know, the nephilim, the first ship you encounter, along with a scorpion. The one that lasts exactly 2.5 seconds at the end of the campaign when you're flying an herc.
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The Nephilim and Seraphim are identical save their size and number of gun mounts (the Seraphim has 11 mounts in three banks instead of 7 in one bank and is quite a bit larger).
The crappy bomber is the Shaitan, with three gun mounts and a tiny bomb bay. Jesus Christ, it was almost as bad as the Anubis.
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About the gun things: the Dragon had visible gun barrels, but it was still one of the most "Shivan" ships IMHO.
As for the techo thing: watch some more anime, or look at the Matrix trilogy - it is possible to make something organic AND techno-menancing. - Though you should be careful with curves.
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I wish Nico would stop talking about how the Shivan ships should be, and actually make them in his vision. ;) :D
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Originally posted by Woolie Wool
The Nephilim and Seraphim are identical save their size and number of gun mounts (the Seraphim has 11 mounts in three banks instead of 7 in one bank and is quite a bit larger).
The crappy bomber is the Shaitan, with three gun mounts and a tiny bomb bay. Jesus Christ, it was almost as bad as the Anubis.
Hargh, ah yes, you're right, I meant shaitan :nervous:
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Originally posted by Flaser
As for the techo thing: watch some more anime
:lol:
telling that to me :D
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I cant see the picture(s), and wheres the link?
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Holy Thread Necromancy batman!
And :lol: @ j00
Bumping a year old thread to complain about the lack of pictures. People have limited webspace, y'tard :p
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Hehe wanted to see if anyone would notice.:nervous:
But the link thing is serious, i want new polys'. Hehe.
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I have emailed Gank. I hope he still has this lying around. Did anyone ever get this to texture?
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Thread Necromancy Extravaganza, October-November 2005
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My thaughts about she shivans
1:Trinagles, shivans use triangles alot in their designs, things aranged in threes also.
2: Variety, my major qualm with nico's post as well as my first point (yeah, i'm a hypocrite) Shivan ships come in all sorts of shapes and designs etc, some are boxy like the scorpion, others are smooth and flwoing like the mara, some have spikes, some dont, etc... for me as long as you can tell it's shivan beyond a reasonable doubt, and it doesnt look like crap, it's good.
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My thaughts about she shivans
Now there's a direction I never imagined we'd move in...
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Sorry i cant type to save my life :(