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Modding, Mission Design, and Coding => The Modding Workshop => Topic started by: Nuke on March 08, 2004, 07:13:01 am

Title: does this ssj look shivan?
Post by: Nuke on March 08, 2004, 07:13:01 am
or do i need to ubershivanitize it. textures are about 75% done and so far it only has !10 turrets. is it cool for conversion?
(http://www.angelfire.com/ak3/nukewar/shivanthing.jpg)
Title: does this ssj look shivan?
Post by: ryuune75 on March 08, 2004, 07:20:55 am
sj stands for super juggernaut? :doubt:
Title: does this ssj look shivan?
Post by: karajorma on March 08, 2004, 07:24:25 am
More spikey! :D The basic shape is pretty good though.
Title: does this ssj look shivan?
Post by: Bobboau on March 08, 2004, 07:25:25 am
to thick
to smooth
Title: does this ssj look shivan?
Post by: Nuke on March 08, 2004, 07:29:29 am
i thought so, i clustered a bunch of spikes in the tail. but i dont think thats enough. once converted i intend to cover it in glow effects. im still not satisfied with it. any crotique will be noted.
Title: does this ssj look shivan?
Post by: Deathstorm V2 on March 08, 2004, 07:31:42 am
Not a criticism, but a request:  Can we have another angle?  The front looks kind of confusing at the moment.
Title: does this ssj look shivan?
Post by: Nuke on March 08, 2004, 07:45:20 am
i thought about doing an interior that you could fly through (even to the extent of having little shian inside with one of thouse beam things to shoot at you with). here's the extra shots.
(http://www.angelfire.com/ak3/nukewar/ssj1.jpg)

(http://www.angelfire.com/ak3/nukewar/ssj2.jpg)

(http://www.angelfire.com/ak3/nukewar/ssj3.jpg)

(http://www.angelfire.com/ak3/nukewar/ssj4.jpg)
Title: does this ssj look shivan?
Post by: karajorma on March 08, 2004, 08:08:23 am
Remove the thrusters. You put them on in a different way for large capships. :)
Title: does this ssj look shivan?
Post by: Janos on March 08, 2004, 08:10:32 am
Still too snakey. Terrans use cardboard boxes.
Vasudans use fishes and snakes.
Shivans use spikes, centipedes and skeletons.

You could try to Sathanize it - make those forwards spikes protrude from the hull a bit more. The rear part could use some Demonization, basically making it stronger and taller.

Now I realize how stupid SD Demon and SJ Sathanas sound like.
Title: does this ssj look shivan?
Post by: Nuke on March 08, 2004, 08:33:33 am
i definately am going to work on the tail, the sides in particular, but im pretty happy with the front (mainly because thats where ive completed most of the uv mapping). this is the first time ive textured a ship as i created it, this technique has become more tedious than usefull.
Title: does this ssj look shivan?
Post by: aldo_14 on March 08, 2004, 08:36:45 am
Looks more 'ordered' than a Shivan ship should, IMO.  Too many curves and smooth bits.... I've always felt the Shivans are about harsh edges, i.e. chaotic ships that look like something you would use to gouge an eye out.
Title: does this ssj look shivan?
Post by: Taristin on March 08, 2004, 09:09:32 am
make it look like you beat it with a shovel, then it'll be done. :nod:
Title: does this ssj look shivan?
Post by: Nico on March 08, 2004, 10:44:19 am
Quote
Originally posted by Janos
Shivans use spikes, centipedes and skeletons.


Like the demon?
No, Nuke: take something from the nature, preferably some crustaceous beast, or a part of skeletton from some animal ( if the Lucifer is not based on a spine, I don't know what it is ), cut the useless bits, then build from there.
And about the spikes... the best shivan models are far from being edgehogs.
Title: does this ssj look shivan?
Post by: c914 on March 08, 2004, 11:32:04 am
I realy want to see this ship as corvette not as juggernaut.
Model is good:nod:  but its to smooth for a shivan ship
Title: does this ssj look shivan?
Post by: adwight on March 08, 2004, 05:06:04 pm
Too symmetrical, especially with those huge curves.  That's my only complaing with it.  The front is also too boxy.  Spikes are your friend :D.
Title: does this ssj look shivan?
Post by: pyro-manic on March 08, 2004, 07:20:09 pm
Too regular. Raa had it right - hit it with something heavy a few times. :D Then cross it with some kind of arthropod (multi-legged beastie ;)) and it'll be awesome. Organic is the way to go with Shivans. :)
Title: does this ssj look shivan?
Post by: Nuke on March 08, 2004, 07:50:32 pm
truspace really needs a shouvel tool :D. i think im going to embed a few triangular plates into the sides of the tail loop. the tailspikes seem a little too curvy, so im gonna distort them a little.
Title: does this ssj look shivan?
Post by: Nuke on March 09, 2004, 07:31:31 am
ive added some jaggedness to the model, more sharp edges and bugitized the spikes. i intend to add about 4 more spikes in the forward section.

(http://www.angelfire.com/ak3/nukewar/ssjv21.jpg)
(http://www.angelfire.com/ak3/nukewar/ssjv22.jpg)

has anybody had a successfull tunnel running through a capship beofore? im thinking of a mission where you have to destroy a forcefield over the fighterbay to gain entry, then fly through the tube to a compartment in the tail where a reacter subsystem will be placed. i figure it would be fun to do whilest the ship is moving. the ship would be the lucifer's predicessor, shields and all. in the mission the ship would invulnerable untill you blow up the reactor, then a fleet of capships jumps in to ice her.
Title: does this ssj look shivan?
Post by: Janos on March 09, 2004, 08:07:57 am
"Han can do it, but we gotta give him more time!"

The frontal spikes are still too boxy, otherwise much improved and actually good-looking.
Title: does this ssj look shivan?
Post by: Nuke on March 09, 2004, 08:25:38 am
im not screwing around with the front, the textures in that part of the ship are done and i dont want to redo them. however i might still add a few more spikies up there. its amazing how such a subtle little change can really improve a ship.
Title: NUKE!! OMG!
Post by: Star Dragon on March 09, 2004, 08:42:16 am
You re-invented the HADES... Seriously consider this. from the middle to rear it looks very terran like (ignore the textures I'm talking shapes), the front is nice shivan like. I suggest yo ukeep a copy of this model just as it is and name it the GTI Pluto (the Roman name for Hades).. To me it's a cool idea...?
Title: does this ssj look shivan?
Post by: karajorma on March 09, 2004, 11:08:41 am
The front spikes are still a little too boxy for my liking but they're a definate improvement. Now do the same for the rest of the ship :D

As for the flying around inside a ship you used to be able to do that with that DS9 style station who's name escapes me (it began with a K)
Title: does this ssj look shivan?
Post by: aldo_14 on March 09, 2004, 11:12:57 am
Karnak(?)
Title: does this ssj look shivan?
Post by: karajorma on March 09, 2004, 11:21:33 am
Sounds familliar. I'm none too sure of the spelling either :D
Title: does this ssj look shivan?
Post by: Terawatt_99 on March 09, 2004, 03:40:15 pm
UBERSHIVANISE!!!! :D:yes:

the new one looks a lit better, like has been said, do what you did to the front to the rest of the ship, and it will be hella-cool :D
Title: does this ssj look shivan?
Post by: Nuke on March 10, 2004, 12:24:53 am
thats the tail, the boxy thing is the front. i think i could fix that up without screwing up the uv space. i will try to see what can be done.
Title: Dude
Post by: Star Dragon on March 10, 2004, 02:57:00 pm
You said "Hella"  

Stan & Kyle, "Stop saying hella!"

Cartman... "hella no!"

   I loved that episode... I mean I "hella loved it!"
Title: does this ssj look shivan?
Post by: ionia23 on March 10, 2004, 03:15:33 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Nuke
thats the tail, the boxy thing is the front. i think i could fix that up without screwing up the uv space. i will try to see what can be done.


Nuke, hello.

How about some feedback from someone who really hasn't spent a lot of time in the modding forums but has played FS to death?

Shivan vessels in general, with a few exceptions, look like insects to me.  Hence all the theory on them being a collective mind.

What this vessel looks like to me is a much larger version of the Shivan Cargo ship from the first FS2 mission to the Knossos portal.  

I forget the name, Nequael I think?  It's the last cargo ship to come through the portal.  Has four big prongs on the front of it, very uniform design.

The Sathanas, especially, looks like a great big bug.  I think that's what you're going for here.  More curvature ought to do the trick.

Brilliant so far!

Wait, I've got it.

Those four huge prongs on the ship.  What about lining them with curved, pointy splikes on the outside, like insect hairs but bigger?  I am under the impression those are the engines.
Title: does this ssj look shivan?
Post by: Nuke on March 10, 2004, 07:32:47 pm
i did a satanah thing there. the idea is that those bfreds use alot of power, so it makes sense to put them close to a power source, such as an engine's reactors. the bfreds are only this ship's secondary weapon, the big stingerlike apendate on the bottom is a gargantuan beam turret. the idea behind the ship is to make something that can stand up to ragnarok/valhalla's meson torpedoes. so that apengage will fire the "uber shivan death cannon". the big boxy thing in the front is actually 4 fighter bays, as this ship also doubles as a carrier. those bays have tunnels that pass all the way in to the tail of the ship, which will house a shield reactor. this is supposed to be a next generation shian scout ship (like the lucifer).
Title: does this ssj look shivan?
Post by: Taristin on March 10, 2004, 10:04:23 pm
...not another super big shivan beam... :doubt:
Title: does this ssj look shivan?
Post by: Nuke on March 11, 2004, 12:38:39 am
i didnt say "uber shivan death beam canon", did i? i thought i about using a transparent pof/glow based laser thing.
Title: does this ssj look shivan?
Post by: Trivial Psychic on March 11, 2004, 02:48:00 am
Why don't you just make it a giant dumbfire secondary. :lol:

Later!
Title: does this ssj look shivan?
Post by: Nuke on March 11, 2004, 06:36:36 pm
because thats the ragnarok/valhalla trademark. its fun to watch a sathanas get pelted by hundreds of nuclear warheads :D
Title: does this ssj look shivan?
Post by: .::Tin Can::. on March 11, 2004, 07:40:26 pm
That last guy had a point: the shivan ships share an insect-like quality, and are basically TOTALLY organic looking, meaning nothing on the ships is square. Keep that in mind.
Title: does this ssj look shivan?
Post by: Nuke on March 12, 2004, 12:23:51 am
nothing on the ship is square, you guys are just seent the fat side if a triangular structure.
Title: does this ssj look shivan?
Post by: ionia23 on March 12, 2004, 01:49:45 am
Quote
Originally posted by Nuke
nothing on the ship is square, you guys are just seent the fat side if a triangular structure.


I wouldn't be surprised at all.

In the ship's current stage of development, is it possible to see a screenshot in-game?
Title: does this ssj look shivan?
Post by: Nico on March 12, 2004, 02:13:18 am
Quote
Originally posted by .::Tin Can::.
That last guy had a point: the shivan ships share an insect-like quality, and are basically TOTALLY organic looking, meaning nothing on the ships is square. Keep that in mind.


ah. the manticore is so totaly rounded it could still roll if it didn't have thrusters.
Or the Scorpion. Or the Naema. Or, the Cain? Or any shivan ship, in fact?
Lesson of shivan design:
1) There's no such thing as a rounded shivan ship. Light, I repeat: "light" curves ( and they're far from being mandatory ) and hard angles, that's all. The mara is probably the closest you'd get from a rounded ship.
2) That stupid "spike" deal: Find me a shivan ship that has more than 6 of those. If you find only 1/4 of them , I'll never talk about shivan designs again, promise. I think people mix shivans and shadows. I know they're ubber similar, but they're not the sames.
Title: does this ssj look shivan?
Post by: Setekh on March 12, 2004, 04:07:19 am
Looks Shivan to me. It's a bit of a change seeing the textures of the small tube part of the Ravana on such a large subsection, but I like it.
Title: does this ssj look shivan?
Post by: Nuke on March 12, 2004, 05:38:01 am
i might make a new high-res texture to replace that one. the arms already have a custom texture (completed the beam cannon part finally). i might also make new tiles to replace corvstile2a and supertile5a. tiles arent all that hard to do. i also intend to use alot of glow effects. ive almost completed all of the uv mapping, though i need to work on the interior (mainly the internal reactor core) and turrets. im gonna autogen the turrets this time so once its done it sould be pretty quick to convert.
Title: does this ssj look shivan?
Post by: Janos on March 12, 2004, 07:04:59 am
Quote
Originally posted by Nico

2) That stupid "spike" deal: Find me a shivan ship that has more than 6 of those. If you find only 1/4 of them , I'll never talk about shivan designs again, promise. I think people mix shivans and shadows. I know they're ubber similar, but they're not the sames.


I think people understand "spikey" differently from each other.
Let's see:
Moloch, Rakshasa, Ravana, Mara, Taurvi, Nahema, Demon... I think they all count as spiky, but not in the Sathanas way - saying, they have spikes and sharp angles, but they're not like Shadow Battlecrab.

And Shivan designes, [V] ones, are so diverse that it's quite hard to talk about Shivan design. Compare Manticore, Dragon and Astaroth, for example. (Wait, I'm, talking about Shivan design..  :nervous:  )
Title: does this ssj look shivan?
Post by: mikhael on March 12, 2004, 10:51:43 am
The key point about Shivan design is that there's no such thing. [V] just threw together a bunch of ideas. They didn't put together a coherent style for the Shivans. Contrast this with the FS1 Vasudan designs, which had a coherent style.
Title: does this ssj look shivan?
Post by: Unknown Target on March 12, 2004, 12:23:34 pm
I think the Mara, Nahema and the Ravana are the best examples of true Shivan design. They should be used as reference points for everyone, in my opinion.

EDIT: Actually, those listed above are the best in terms of what Freespace 2's design doctrine went by. The Cain, Manticore, and Scorpion were the best of FS1's era (if you look, you will notice there is a definate difference between the two games in the design of the Shivan ships).
Title: does this ssj look shivan?
Post by: Nuke on March 12, 2004, 06:09:03 pm
as with all shivan designs, you are alyays seeing something new. i actually like the asymetrical designs better. the shivan fighter i did looked incredibly shivan withought overdoing the spiks. i go by a simple rule, it has to look like it came from hell.
Title: does this ssj look shivan?
Post by: Flipside on March 12, 2004, 07:12:14 pm
I sometimes wonder if some of those Shivan designs in FS2 are just failed Terran/Vasudan designs that have been tweaked and retextured? Quite a few of them look not that far from being 'familiar' :)
Title: does this ssj look shivan?
Post by: Thorn on March 12, 2004, 08:44:37 pm
I'm still trying to figure out which end is the front...
Title: does this ssj look shivan?
Post by: Nico on March 12, 2004, 08:56:54 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Unknown Target
I think the Mara, Nahema and the Ravana are the best examples of true Shivan design. They should be used as reference points for everyone, in my opinion.

EDIT: Actually, those listed above are the best in terms of what Freespace 2's design doctrine went by. The Cain, Manticore, and Scorpion were the best of FS1's era (if you look, you will notice there is a definate difference between the two games in the design of the Shivan ships).


I honestly prefer the FS1 designs, by far.
Title: does this ssj look shivan?
Post by: Nuke on March 12, 2004, 10:51:00 pm
i finaly did my taxes, i can get back to working on my ship now.
Title: does this ssj look shivan?
Post by: Nuke on March 14, 2004, 11:55:13 am
well, shes almost done, just gotta detail the interior and add turrets galore.