Hard Light Productions Forums
Modding, Mission Design, and Coding => FS2 Open Coding - The Source Code Project (SCP) => Topic started by: Kazan on March 09, 2004, 01:36:43 pm
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I know you're all familiar with IRC - but most of you are not familiar with havens - //telnet://curryco.they.org:4616 is an example of RAThaven
Inquisitor and I are arguing about what we want for a backend for the lobby. IRC would be nice because it would be externally connectable, not another service to admin, etc. The problem is I [or someone else] would have to write a C/C++ IRC interface and I cannot make heads or tails of RFC 2812. It would also take longer to implement an interface suitable for the PXO screen.
With RATHaven all I have to do is write a front end filter - as it is not a fancy protocol - everything major is handled server-side and I just have to filter some input (the output from the channel command, etc). The rathaven would also be externally connectable. I may be able to have a rathaven front end within hours instead of weeks
Both allow us to kick, ban, etc obnoxious users
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As long as the front lobby works, it sounds good to me. I don't think the backend matters so much if it performs as advertised.
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and make sure to allow chat logging...ingame, kills, evrything annonced to the player should be logged...
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Go with RAThaven. IRC stuff is ugly in the extreme. If you need connectivity from outside of FSO, you can just write your own RAThaven client. That'd certainly be far less painful than trying to deal with IRC and the fact that most IRC software (server and client) pretty much ignores the RFCs regularly.
What drew mentioned is intriguing though. It would be interesting if, when players entered a game, it spawned a new 'channel' or 'room'. If all mission messages were sent to that room, then spectators could watch the action, sort of. I dunno. Its just a fruity idea.
Oh wait. Ignore me. I'm not supposed to be answering the question. I'm supposed to be criticising and belittling. Um... chat bad!
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If both can do the same and RATHaven is easier to do, why not RATHaven?
What are the disadvantages of RATHaven? We need to know that too.
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I strongly, strongly favor IRC. It's well documented, well understood, I have servers already being used as game lobbies we can plug right into, it's easy to manage, I can manage it effectively etc. IRC scales. IRC is flexible.
While the RFC itself is obtuse, it is an otherwise well understood protocol, clients are easy to create (just look at all the VB and Java clients), servers themselves are well documented and understood, and it's darn convenient for the likes of me to get new machines tasked to the purpose :) It's also in the best interest of the implementor to learn a widley used protocol :)
I will need convinced to use any other protocol.
That being said, lore is about to ship, there is a possibility I will be able to talk my programmer who implemented our IRC lobby code (all in script by the way) into coming over to the dark side of open source like development :)
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I don;t really feel strongly about much else technology wise. I do feel strongly about this :)
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no real disadvantages of rathaven
mikhael: i only have to write a client for the _game_
a client is already written
TELNET
go
telnet curryco.they.org 4616
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Originally posted by Kazan
no real disadvantages of rathaven
mikhael: i only have to write a client for the _game_
a client is already written
TELNET
go
telnet curryco.they.org 4616
the problem is, telenet is kinda unflexible as a shell; IRC is so mainstream, it would be easy to do all sorts of fun stuff with it.
EDIT: Btw, IRC can easily be downed by the thousands of of the self programs. A dumbass script kiddy and a DoS proggy are the IRC networks worst enemy. Havens are used alot less, they would manage to slip under the radar of scrip kiddies....
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well considering i have a basic internal client already implemented - i just need to strip color codes from the text now and then make it so it populates the user and channel windows....
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Originally posted by Kazan
well considering i have a basic internal client already implemented - i just need to strip color codes from the text now and then make it so it populates the user and channel windows....
im sure u can change color codes ingame, for like different teams and for announcements (eg. Death_Box ate Ligtspeeds maxim) iv have problems with games that have no color coding ingame. *cough halo cough*
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yes i still have to _STRIP_ the codes from the string
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IRC. easist to use and most flexible moderator / admin management.
Maybe add an exta command for mods / admins to set the MOTD, and that's it.
But... you could always use that other thing as a temporary solution while you're implementing IRC. :)
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perhaps lightspeed
of course all these cries about "ease of management" are coming from two people who haven't the SLIGHTEST FREAKING CLUE what they're talking about because they've never used a rathaven let alone moderated one
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thats EXACTLY the reason why i think IRC is easier. We all have experience with it. :D
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IRC will probably be better - because then we can have colors and what not... i'll also have to write a custom GUI class [YIPES] etc
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of course all these cries about "ease of management" are coming from two people who haven't the SLIGHTEST FREAKING CLUE what they're talking about because they've never used a rathaven let alone moderated one
Bingo. Whereas I have moderated IRC as a game lobby. Pretty strong argument, experience.
Anyway, it sounds like some progress was made last night on prototyping an IRC client.
;)
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and getting myself klined from irc.maxgaming.net :P
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Put the server on irc.rizon.net
They allow most things that most servers won't allow such as fansubs, fserving, and game lobbies.
Also, rizon is a fast, huge, and stable server and has the option of hostmasking. If rizon can handle the entire anime fansub community, it can handle FS2 game lobbies.
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LL: Inquisitor is a IRCoper on *.maxgaming.net - one of the other IRC didn't know what was going on, Inqui lifted the kline
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I'm just saying, if you need a backup...
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If this ever gets through, I'd volounteer to be a moderator.
You know how much time I spend on FS2 (and how much time i spend on multi) - I have IRC moderating experience, plus i'm pretty much reliable. :)
Add the fact that i'm online most of the day and can watch the lobby from trillian :D
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that be awesome to watch the lobby without running the game. You could be working on stuff and then ur buddy is like, hey dude theres a server running wanna play, then u just jump in whenever u want
btw lightspeed, were u in the TA squad?
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I'm not sure you're looking for THIS, but I remembered an old thread...
This should be it. Poor man's PXO.
http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php/topic,11446.0.html
I don't know if it'll be of any help, but considering it's been written a couple of years ago (and the code, as far as I know, looks pretty clear and bug-free), it'd be a start, at least. Wonder why it never got stickified... :doubt:
If it means any, I'd be up for IRC, it just has way more flexibility than any other system I know of. Besides, with mIRC as a "firing platform" and the scripting inside, it could be made into a VERY user-friendly system.
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Stealth: are you aware that i have the gametracker working already......
*shakes head*
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Oh, god...
Excuse me, I'll just go whack my head on the nearest wall. ><;
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/me makes note to self kline stealth
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I once watched someone get glined...
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Originally posted by Drew
btw lightspeed, were u in the TA squad?
now where do you know TA from? I was leading the thing when the ship sunk. So yes, I indeed was in there. :D
I've been SSC for a long time now, though :)
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i used to play on PXO alot, back like 2 years ago. TA was big and DW was big to.... i know like mustang, suz, tempanator (sp) all them....
I used to go 1v1 with u, u pwnd me alot..........
u were my PXO role model i was like omg omg i got to be as good as lightspeed omg omg
remeber death_box? hehe
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Originally posted by Kazan
/me makes note to self kline stealth
I appreciate the sentiment, but I doubt you'll ever see me playing anything OL, if nothing, because I steer clear of both cheaters and vengeful IRCops. And the 'net's crawling with both.
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meh, the Fs2 commmunity is pretty damn freindly.... if you got a faster modem and the capabilites to actually play online, i doubt you would have to worry about cheaters or nuteh admins
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Originally posted by Drew
I used to go 1v1 with u, u pwnd me alot..........
u were my PXO role model i was like omg omg i got to be as good as lightspeed omg omg
remeber death_box? hehe
Yes, I remember you now :)
I didnt get really that good until I was SSC, that's about where I reached my skill peak ;)
Stopped playing for too long though (several months) so i'm hell of a rust bomb now. :rolleyes:
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Originally posted by Stealth[cro]
I appreciate the sentiment, but I doubt you'll ever see me playing anything OL, if nothing, because I steer clear of both cheaters and vengeful IRCops. And the 'net's crawling with both.
ever heard of a joke? and apparently log bomb doesn't work anymore
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I think some people should be reminded this isn't the HalfLife community.
Freespace 2 is no dumb first person shooter, so you need to have a certain intelligence to play Freespace. This eliminates at least 98% of cheaters. Also, the typical "1337 cheat kidz" community generally isn't interested in Freespace (no bl00d!!!111oenoneone) :)
The FS-Community actually is really nice to play with.
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exactly - the only cheat there used to be - Lag Bombing (*cough*Roughnecks*cough*) doesn't even work anymore - the game prevents it
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Originally posted by Drew
meh, the Fs2 commmunity is pretty damn freindly.... if you got a faster modem and the capabilites to actually play online, i doubt you would have to worry about cheaters or nuteh admins
A faster modem here means ISDN or DSL. And both of those are a mother to pay and set up. I already tried once on a 56k, and the result was... well, choppy to say the least.
Originally posted by Kazan
ever heard of a joke? and apparently log bomb doesn't work anymore
Sorry if I came off snappy, Kazan, but in my mid-range dealing with IRC and the ops, I've come to expect anything, including klines out of the blue, DDoSing and a host of other things. I apologize.
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When Kazan's code is closer to ready, we have aq production system currently serving MGT's game title we can hook into.
Cool stuff :)
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Sorry if I came off snappy, Kazan, but in my mid-range dealing with IRC and the ops, I've come to expect anything, including klines out of the blue, DDoSing and a host of other things. I apologize.
Man, which network were you on? I need to avoid that one. Being kicked is part of IRC life but k-lined? Usually that only happens (on normal networks) if you REALLY piss off an IRCop. Heck, I've insulted IRCops before without even getting kicked... maybe I'm just used to nice networks.
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Originally posted by Stealth[cro]
Sorry if I came off snappy, Kazan, but in my mid-range dealing with IRC and the ops, I've come to expect anything, including klines out of the blue, DDoSing and a host of other things. I apologize.
heh
probably a CS related network. Most IRC networks i visit are teh nice. YOu just have to know where you tread. If you get **** like that, ur visiting the wrong network.....
speakiong of the the CS community.......
it loaded with fags, n00bs, wannabe hax0rs, the whole smash. It creates such a bad image of PC gamers in general.
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Nope, wasn't CS related... as I said, 56k and games don't mix well. It's a long story, really.
Anyhow, I guess I'll just wait and see what comes out of the client. With luck, I'll be able to join you in a dogfight eventually. ;)
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Originally posted by Drew
i used to play on PXO alot, back like 2 years ago. TA was big and DW was big to.... i know like mustang, suz, tempanator (sp) all them....
I used to go 1v1 with u, u pwnd me alot..........
u were my PXO role model i was like omg omg i got to be as good as lightspeed omg omg
remeber death_box? hehe
You mean Tepanator... I used to be a DW myself. DW-Starks.
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i remmeber using phiranas in a game with ur members. I got like 50 somthng kills before they cancled the game..... they didnt like me to much ;P
ofc, u all thoguht my name was teh c00l
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Which is why playing "No fish" is preferable.
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Originally posted by Drew
i remmeber using phiranas in a game with ur members. I got like 50 somthng kills before they cancled the game..... they didnt like me to much ;P
ofc, u all thoguht my name was teh c00l
It's that kind of "skill" that really pisses Suz off and makes her warp GTI Ganymedes off their attached ships in TvT.
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An IRCop should only act if people repeatedly do crap, even after being warned to stop it - or if someone disrupts the system by spamming the lobby and/or using annoying bots. (i.e. people like Kuras :D)
Heck, there'll always be people that mods don't like or people that dont like them - this really should not influence moderating actions, though.
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Well, that's why I run a professional IRC network ;)
MGT is doing this as a business, making a game, that game has IRC lobbies, so, we have to act with some measure of impartiality ;)
Seemed liek a good thing to hook into, we'll take community moderators I am sure, but lets not put the cart before the horse yet, let's see the code get done first ;)