Hard Light Productions Forums
Modding, Mission Design, and Coding => FS2 Open Coding - The Source Code Project (SCP) => Topic started by: QuantumDelta on March 09, 2004, 08:32:22 pm
-
For you programmers to work from as a basis.
A slightly more encompassing survey than the Graphics card thread said this;
http://steampowered.com/status/survey.html
edit;
side note;
NVidia GeForce4 MX Series 81,038 15.09 %
NVidia GeForce4 Series 78,996 14.71 %
NVidia GeForce2 MX Series 54,119 10.08 %
NVidia GeForce FX 5200 Series 37,520 6.99 %
ATI Radeon 9600 Series 34,380 6.40 %
ATI Radeon 9800 Series 28,835 5.37 %
ATI Radeon 9500/9700 Series 24,444 4.55 %
Gee Who got pwned.
-
the better card, so, I refuse to tend to the lowest common denominator, if someone wants to come in behind me and make small touchups fine. but I own a Radeon, and I'm takeing advantage of it.
-
Amen brother!
Radeon is better! 9600 XT runs my **** any day!
-
Originally posted by .::Tin Can::.
Amen brother!
Radeon is better! 9600 XT runs my **** any day!
That's interesting. I've always wanted to know what **** looks like when it runs.
Anyway, keep in mind that alot of people have Nvidia cards due to the deals they make with Dell, Gateway, etc. and the fact that their motherboard line-up comes with (obviously) an Nvidia based chipset. However, for purposes needed, that poll suits just fine.
--Rga
-
All I know is I have never had any problems with my Nvidia, whilst the ATI in my dads notebook sux0rs. By any I mean none. By none I mean zero. By zero I mean...umm...nada?
-
Oi. I've got an ATI, and it rocks, BUT:
The poll he posted is very useful. In fact I'd say its even more useful than starting another Nvidia vs. ATI thread, believe it or not.
So, I'll go ahead post the bottom lines for both sides (ATI and Nvidia) so it can now exit this thread:
ATIers: I have an ATI. If you have a problem with my descision on getting one, well, I honestly dont give a damn.
Nvidia-ers: I have an NVidia. If you have a problem with my descision on getting one, well, I honestly dont give a damn.
--Rga
-
If the coders were paid for their work this might be an issue, but this isn't true and they don't have to cater for any market. AFAIK to make the higher end features run with GeForce cards, you'd need special-case optimisation code and I don't see why the coders should be obliged to waste a great deal of their time with such a thing.
-
besides, I can find a dozen benchmarks that'll give opposite results :doubt:
benchmarks are biaised, always.
-
Originally posted by Nico
besides, I can find a dozen benchmarks that'll give opposite results :doubt:
benchmarks are biaised, always.
True.
But....this wasn't about which card was better -_-
-
Yeah, I don't know which survey you were looking at, Nico, but that was just a poll on the percentage of cards out there are what.
-
i mor see it as a target for fs2open, to support the most common hardware currently availible. its amazing how spending a couple hundred bucks on a video card is enough to make one biased twards that particular manufacturer. noone wants to admit that their "state of the art hardware" is second rate. back when i got my top of the line voodoo 3 (and at the time it was state of the art) i swore id never buy a nvidia product. now im running a geforce 4 mx420. ive also used ati chipsets and frankly i cant really tell the difference. non biased opinions about video cards are rare. the nforce chipset is a good thing though, id much rather have a mobo chipset from a company that knows games than one that ive never heard of before.
-
Originally posted by QuantumDelta
NVidia GeForce4 MX Series 81,038 15.09 %
these are crammed into nearly every off the shelf PC on the planet. Ull find them in brand new dimensions, presarios, gateways (all which suck mind u)
unfortunatly, this is what most ppl are stuck with when dont build their PC. Considering that most ppl buy there comps off the shelf.
Im guessing that most of the ppl using them A) know there hardware sucks but dont have enuf money to get it better B) are clueless and think the GF4MX is the pwnege card on the planet.
-
But does the latest ATI's support 4x AGP or are they all 8x?
-
Originally posted by Nuke
i mor see it as a target for fs2open, to support the most common hardware currently availible. its amazing how spending a couple hundred bucks on a video card is enough to make one biased twards that particular manufacturer. noone wants to admit that their "state of the art hardware" is second rate. back when i got my top of the line voodoo 3 (and at the time it was state of the art) i swore id never buy a nvidia product. now im running a geforce 4 mx420. ive also used ati chipsets and frankly i cant really tell the difference. non biased opinions about video cards are rare. the nforce chipset is a good thing though, id much rather have a mobo chipset from a company that knows games than one that ive never heard of before.
? I regret buying my card............anyways, IMO FS2_open should be basing it's hardware requirements on something equivalent to the 'final' product IMO
-
Originally posted by J3Vr6
Yeah, I don't know which survey you were looking at, Nico, but that was just a poll on the percentage of cards out there are what.
I, erm... misread :p
-
Originally posted by aldo_14
? I regret buying my card............anyways, IMO FS2_open should be basing it's hardware requirements on something equivalent to the 'final' product IMO
But since there will be no "final" product, how can one gauge what that is?
-
you know what looking into that poll
NVidia GeForce FX 5200 Series is the only one of the front runner NVidia cards that is what you could call modern , it's the only one equivelent to the 9800 and 9600 wich combind together have nearly twice the market as the GeForce. all that poll shows realy is what was popular, and I thing the results hint at NVidia's soon to be down fall
-
Originally posted by Nuke
i mor see it as a target for fs2open, to support the most common hardware currently availible. its amazing how spending a couple hundred bucks on a video card is enough to make one biased twards that particular manufacturer. noone wants to admit that their "state of the art hardware" is second rate. back when i got my top of the line voodoo 3 (and at the time it was state of the art) i swore id never buy a nvidia product. now im running a geforce 4 mx420. ive also used ati chipsets and frankly i cant really tell the difference. non biased opinions about video cards are rare. the nforce chipset is a good thing though, id much rather have a mobo chipset from a company that knows games than one that ive never heard of before.
Now that's, much, more Developer like thinking.
To write tailoring for just one card is selfish/immature/biased.
It kills the market SCP might appeal to, and it narrows any chance of bringing an FS2 back to life.
"Look at this, the greatest game in the world, it's available free too, and the fan community has massively updated and modified it to make it even better!"
"Cool!" *Gets it*
"Hey... I get **** FPS... it looks ****... it generally IS ****..."
"You got a Nvidia card? heh **** you." :hopping:
....................Yea ok, so instantly over 46% of computer users wont be able to have a decent FS2 SCP Experience because of a little bias/ignorance.
Again, like I said, the thread wasn't really about which card was better, it was about the failure I see brewing.
Since I know another potentially massively successful game, that completely failed, because all it supported was NV Cards and ATI Cards Crashed all the time on it, simply because the lead Dev didn't cater for the ATI Cards (This was only first after 30months retail ¬.¬), don't want the mistake repeated here with NV Cards either.
-
Originally posted by J3Vr6
But since there will be no "final" product, how can one gauge what that is?
rough equivalence to the next version number (in terms of features)....
Originally posted by Bobboau
you know what looking into that poll
NVidia GeForce FX 5200 Series is the only one of the front runner NVidia cards that is what you could call modern , it's the only one equivelent to the 9800 and 9600 wich combind together have nearly twice the market as the GeForce. all that poll shows realy is what was popular, and I thing the results hint at NVidia's soon to be down fall
Bear in mind this was a pool conducted over, IIRC, Steam. So it's going to be skewed - partly by the bundling of Half Life 2 with Ati cards, and partly by the furore itself. If you did a similar pool amongst, say, UT2k3 players, it'd probably be skewed more the other way, etc.
-
QuantumDelta, I guess I just won't be makeing any profit then.
you know I don't give a damn, I make it becase its fun, and I try to get it running best for me, sorry :)
-
Quantum, the project uses directx not some exclusive api like glide. Excepting that one line of trueform code, there aren't proprietary extension. ATI conforms closely to directx, it doesn't need nor could you do any tailoring.
The "cater" complaint you make, each manufacturer has the odd tolerance for bugs. Testing with only single make of card will leave errors unexposed, that isn't a problem here.
-
Most people call me QD.
I am aware that the cards are fairly closely compatible, but, even if a GF 5200 FX is "crap" -- why does a slightly modified 6 year old game that was supposed to run on a 8mb card /half/ in FPS during a *simple* training mission, when on other PCs it can render 13000 polly 1024*1024 texture models without that much of a problem? (..and I get lag off a target drone...?)
Though, I think it's the particle code that's worst atm for my FPS.
Quite simply;
I would prefer FS2_SCP to be fairly mass marketable, I'm sure Kazan wants to see a fair few players using the online service he and Inquisitor are prepairing, and I'd like that too, but this survey shows that a lot of people are gonna have ****ty problems due to non-optimisation?
I mean, it's not like you can't optimise for both cards.
I'd do it myself, but I'm not a coder, I'm a advertiser, or a PR, generally here to QA/Pimp/Enjoy. < In that order.
As it stands looking at it from my point of view currently the quality is sub par... now I'm pretty sure Bob is capable of fixing stuff like that, so that when HLP comes to the "pimpage" stage, we can have the project appeal to everyone... as it should do.
He's here because he's a fan of this, absolutely wonderful game, as I am.
I want to see that games life span extended as much as possible and I want to see /many/ people enjoy it, not just the elite few with specific system specs...I'm far from an NV Fanboi, and I never had real problems with my ATI Cards either, what I'm caring about is (ultimately) SCP_Online...
As it stands, this is the greatest game I've ever played, still, 6 or 7 years after release, and it's free to distribute as people see fit.
So why can't it be massively played?
That's all I want.. PXO-Esque halls filled with people, close to the popularity of CS, or another (inferior game, with superior marketing), Bob is one of the best people to get this game /looking/running/ smoothly, on a range of setups.. I realise it's a little more work, but as he's realised now, I'm not the NV fanboi he thought I was, I'm just someone who is trying to get equal support for both manufacturers...
I mean, even if Nvidia killed your cat, - would you want to ban everyone with an NV Card from ever enjoying FS2 the way you enjoy it? Silly example.
Like I said, I want to be able to show everyone what you've done /everyone/ I want them to be able to enjoy the magic I know this game has, and SCP has enhanced...
That's what I'm chasing Bob :P
-
it's as simple as this, I don't own a NVidia card even if I wanted to optomise for them I wouldn't be able to.
I think a question you should ask is why is there such a huge diference when nobody actively tryed to lower NVidia frame rates, personaly I think it's becase NVidia sucks and is going to crash out some time in the next 3 years.
I actualy think RT would be a better person for you to direct nVidia problems to as he (I beleve) uses one, and has some sort of contact with someone over there
-
Originally written by Bob
I think a question you should ask is why is there such a huge diference when nobody actively tryed to lower NVidia frame rates
That line sums it up in an even finer way, really.
-
Originally posted by Bobboau
personaly I think it's becase NVidia sucks and is going to crash out some time in the next 3 years.
Lol, thankfully not :p
Don't forget that if Ati rules now ( I share that opinion ), they used to be baaaaaaaaaad ( never owned an ET6000, have you? :p ).
I think that in a few years, Nvidia will take the cake again, or another unexpected challenger. It always went this way with videocards.
-
Believe me, the FX series is the problem. Especially anything below 5600.
FS2_open runs at 70+FPS generally for me with all the eyecandy on (assuming there a 2 or three capital ships on screen). Some Derelict missions which have a huge number of ships drop it to 30-40FPS.
I own a GF4 ti4200 that I haven't even bothered to overclock (from testing I can push it to ti4600 levels).
Of course, I haven't tried this with the decal code and Truform won't work for me.
However, I'm still of the opinion that nVidia can recover from the FX debacle. They have three teams that rotate through making 3D chips and I remember reading somewhere that the GF4 Ti team is the one working on the NV4x.
However, the R4xx from ATi looks to be very good too and coming out before the nVidia one. Will be interesting.
-
My hopes for the next generation stands with a silent but always high quality player: Matrox.
I remember when i owned a Mistique 220 and it was the best card by far...
-
Meh, Matrox had good 2D and its dual head tech was cool when it was exclusive, but my Millenium II never impressed me much when it comes to 3D.
-
"It kills the market SCP might appeal to"
Hahahaha... the SCP isn't being marketed. If it was, then the makers of the SCP would be getting money.
So sorry if Bob cant just go out and by up video cards until he has optimized the code for all major brands.
You know, since you seem to be expecting Bob to go get an Nvidia card so he can optimize it, why dont you just go get an ATI card so you dont have to worry?
--Rga
-
I'll say this, I am extremely happy with my FX 5900 Ultra card, and I was also extremely happy with my GF3 before that. Even the most demanding games (like Halo) run smooth on this card with the details all maxed out. And thats without overclocking, with overclocking this card can go faster then a 5950 ultra.
-
Yes, and lets not turn this into a video card holy war please.
While Bob doesn't have an nvidia card, others do. That's also why people download and test this stuff.
Lets keep it civil.
-
Besides, at the level we're at there's not anything that we could heavily specifically optimise for, ATI or NVidia. We're using the fixed function pipleline. If we ever go up to using shaders, this will be a different story (I would side with ATI at the moment), but currently there's no reason to get your (or anyone else's) knickers in a twist.
As a dev, if I were to get a card right this second, it'd be a maxed Radeon. But I'm no fanboy, and if NVidia comes out with something that kicks ATI's butt, you can bet I'll go that route. At the moment, I have a GF3.
One thing though, never buy anything that has "MX" in the name. [dev rant]Why don't you have clip plane support?!?![/dev rant]
-
they do in opengl. you have to have at least six :wtf:.
go yell at nvidia tech support
Geometry is always clipped against the boundaries of a six-plane frustum in x, y, and z. The glClipPlane function allows the specification of additional planes, not necessarily perpendicular to the x- , y- , or z-axis, against which all geometry is clipped. Up to GL_MAX_CLIP_PLANES planes can be specified, where GL_MAX_CLIP_PLANES is at least six in all implementations.Because the resulting clipping region is the intersection of the defined half-spaces, it is always convex.
-
Great find, QuantumDelta - this sort of thing is immensely useful, methinks. :)
-
it is good to have some competition in the video card market. remember the price gouge when 3dfx went under. it really pissed me off when nvidia didnt put glide into their cards even though they owned the rights to it, leaving a whole generation of glide games unplayable. im rather glad that modern apis are not card specific.