Hard Light Productions Forums
Off-Topic Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: Kazan on March 11, 2004, 12:29:51 pm
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And I wanted to avoid paying dabeers money
but I let her choose a ring
(she's calling it a "promise ring", but it's really more of an engagement ring, but being that we're atheists we can define when we were "married" to when ever we want... and we generally consider that in the past)
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What a curious talent you have, to make occassions which any other person would consider joyous, into some kind of melancholy affair.
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not melancholy - i just had to explain things. I'n mot mad that I bought diamonds.. just irked that i had to fork money over to dabeers - knowing that if i had found the right jeweler i could have gotten synthetic diamond (yes REAL diamond made in lab) 100% chemically pure with no imperfections for a _LOT_ less
My girlfriend was also irked at that too
I must say the stones were fairly good for their prince range (yes i borrow a gem magnifier)
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She still likes the ring though :D (after all she picked it out)
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Dude, Kazan, you make it seem like you're proofing a geometry problem.
Congratulations none the less.
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I'll never understand how Kaz can make something joyous like that sound like he's buying a roll of toilet paper. Congrats regardless.
The imperfections are what give natural diamonds their character, synthetics are nice but they look like glass in most situations.
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Congrats Kazan.
I fully understand what you mean about man made diamonds though. Especially the coloured ones. :)
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Kiss the lucky girl and let her kiss you back, you lucky guy!
Happiness, health, and...
... (geek alert)
LIVE LONG AND PROSPER
... (OK, geeks are gone)
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You know what would be cool? Armour made of diamonds. That way, nothing could pierce it, cause hey, its diamonds. Plus, its lighter than iron or whatever. One day......
Oh errr, congrats man. :yes: :yes:
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Liberator: I'm sure you haven't taken a jewelers magnifier to a diamond, let alonet _seen_ a synthetic, and from a mineralogical standpoint you don't know WTF you're talking about. The "unique" properties of a diamond that make it sought after are A) hardness, B) critical angle of 22 degrees, C) supposed rarity
A and B are both related to the coherency of the carbon crystal lattice - the less flaws a diamond has the more expensive it is - ie the closer to being a pure perfectly formed crystal.
Lab ones are purefectly pure crystals.
Libby - PLEASE know what you're talking about before posting - forcing me to explain this has just _RUINED_ this thread
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J3Vr6 and An0n: what is it? the disgruntled comment tword dabeers
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Originally posted by Rictor
You know what would be cool? Armour made of diamonds. That way, nothing could pierce it, cause hey, its diamonds. Plus, its lighter than iron or whatever. One day......
Oh errr, congrats man. :yes: :yes:
actually a laser would pierce it - if it didn't reflect due to the extremely low critical angle
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Hey another HLP marriage! w00t!!
but being that we're atheists we can define when we were "married" to when ever we want... and we generally consider that in the past
Sorry for my misunderstanding, but you can't be "married" unless you have a state issued license. So I'm a little confused.
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HotSnoj: two different definitions of marriage - i wasn't talking state marriage
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Kaz, I mean no offense, but that girl of yours must be one tolerant and understanding lass...
Congrats anyway.... :)
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Guess it's a little late now, but that's what Canadian's for.
Yeah, congrats and good luck. Regardless of the depressing nature of your initial post, I'm reasonably sure you're happy with the arrangement, so good for you.
Rictor: Yeah, but I think diamonds over a certain size would shatter. They might be hard, but they aren't nearly as flexible as a metal. Diamond coatings are always nice, though, as would be some kinda chain-mail-like setup that compensated for the rigidity of the crystals. And if you're gonna get that complicated with synthesizing the things, you might as well go all out and do compacted fullerene or monomolecular stuff.
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Originally posted by HotSnoJ
Hey another HLP marriage! w00t!!
Sorry for my misunderstanding, but you can't be "married" unless you have a state issued license. So I'm a little confused.
Hence my confusion. Would you please enlighten me? :)
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Congratulations :)
hope you two will be happy together :nod:
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OMG why are you people discussing the rarity, purity and chemical composition of diamonds?
Anyways, congratulations to Kazan (even if he's irked XD )
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Because we're GEEKS. Duh.
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Y'know, you can compress dead people (ashes) into diamonds now ;7
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@ Rictor: diamonds would be far too brittle to make armor out of. A sword could easliy shatter a plate of diamond, not to mention a bullet or explosion
And uh... congrats to Kazan
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How much diamond does one human's worth of ashes make?
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Originally posted by diamondgeezer
How much diamond does one human's worth of ashes make?
One. I dunno... not diamondify-ed anyone yet.
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rotfl
my first post depressing? i must be confusing you with our symantics
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There was hint of a sigh in it. Such is the medium of...er... text
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Kaz has anyone told you that you suck the air out of the room?
The fewer impurites in natural diamond are more desirable and thus more valuable. Synthetic diamonds can be crunk out by the truckload and are thus less valuable.
Accept my congratulation as they are intended and stop trying to put meaning into peoples words that aren't there.
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Originally posted by Liberator
The imperfections are what give natural diamonds their character, synthetics are nice but they look like glass in most situations.
Originally posted by Liberator
The fewer impurites in natural diamond are more desirable and thus more valuable. Synthetic diamonds can be crunk out by the truckload and are thus less valuable.
Until you learn not to contradict yourself stay out of my threads
Originally posted by Liberator
Accept my congratulation as they are intended and stop trying to put meaning into peoples words that aren't there.
you're ruining my thread with your cop out crap - you were wrong- admit it.
Also - MANUFACTURED DIAMONDS being cheap is the entire point - diamonds are not _rare_. Even natural diamonds are not as rare as DaBeers makes them out to be.
Origionally blair wasn't even going to _get_ diamonds she was going to get saphire because normally she doens't llike diamond - just this particular ring she liked
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Well congrats Kaz, you can still be an atheist and indulge in a little symbology :D
Sharon likes Cubic Zircona, which is just fine by me ;)
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hehe nice flip :D
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Hold on guys, I think I can pick up a chunk of glass off the street... Hmm.. Yeah, my girl will just LOVE this!
It's one thing to be price conscious, but another thing is forgetting that this ring will be the symbol of your unity for the rest of your life.
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J3Vr6: my girlfriend agrees with me about diamonds
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Girls :doubt:
Nothing better than a girl so I make a fool of myself, w/o any help from anybody else.
My latest feat: I have a crush for a pregnant girl, who asked me out a few years ago and I, thinking she was already with somebody else, turned her flat down.
Go me :doubt:
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At least they talk to you, I can't even get a girl to look cross-eyed at me.
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But everybody talks to me, there's something like a "I am your best friend" aura around me, so no big deal there.
And I tell you: that's a curse, when it comes to girls ( the one mentioned above is an exeption, I suppose ).
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Originally posted by Liberator
At least they talk to you, I can't even get a girl to look cross-eyed at me.
:lol: :ha: :D No comment :D :ha: :lol:
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Originally posted by J3Vr6
It's one thing to be price conscious, but another thing is forgetting that this ring will be the symbol of your unity for the rest of your life.
Its not the diamond that is the symbol of your unity. Its the ring.
What do they teach these kids these days? There's a reason the diamond is almost always on the engagement ring, NOT the wedding ring.
As for diamond quality, my wife and I went with a cheaper diamond with a few impurities, but an excellent cut. It came out cheaper, larger, and more brilliant than any of the more expensive diamonds (which we couldn't really afford). The setting also really helped bring out the fire in it. Its gorgeous.
For what its worth, Kaz, my wife and I are with you on the DeBiers thing. You SHOULD avoid giving them your money, especially with respect to a ring of this nature. They're one of the most evil business consortiums on the planet.
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(http://www.sallys-place.com/images/beverages/beer/beers.jpg)
Ah, da beers...
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Originally posted by J3Vr6
It's one thing to be price conscious, but another thing is forgetting that this ring will be the symbol of your unity for the rest of your life.
The point your missing is that for the same price as a 1 carot clear natural diamond you can buy a 3 or 4 carot artificial coloured diamond which looks much more impressive. On top of that it isn't even fake. It's so similar to a natural diamond that it needs to be tested in a specially built device to tell the difference
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Pfft. Diamonds are for the unoriginal. Get something interesting, like, oh, tourmaline.
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some of the newer lab diamonds are only distinquishable because of the on their registration card is says "Lab made"
(http://barrygoldberg.net/fark/debeers1a.jpg)(http://barrygoldberg.net/fark/debeers2a.jpg)
(http://photoshop.superdownloads.net/uploads/debeers.jpg)(http://grog.uchicago.edu/fark/trueadvert1.jpg)
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congrats kaz, now start breeding so you can teach your kids c++ and finish ferium :D.
testing jewelry is one thing i actually liked doing during my brief pawn shop carear. the gold acid test was really fun to do. for testing diamonds we would simply induce an elecric shock, if it conducted, it was a diamond. purity we didnt care about because we only gave about a third of what it was worth.
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I was saying it for the comment of the cubic zarconia, which to me reminds me of the home shopping network. But if that's your cup of joe, then it's all you.
I gots no problem getting a test tube diamond. It's actually smart to do so, they're almost perfect. The only problem with getting one from a lab is that it won't be appraised at a much higher value later in the future than a natural diamond. And appreciation is a good thing (and let's not start the "well if you're planning on staying together forever you shouldn't be thinking about it's appreciation" cuz then I really will pee on you since you have no concept of the value of money).
And "what are they teaching *kids* these days?" I'm pushing close to 30, now u make me feel old (empties colostomy bag). If you think the engagement ring isn't also a symbol of your unity, then we got a different belief in that. I don't know about you guys, but I don't just give any girl an engagement ring. To me, you give a girl an engagement ring, and it's your commitment to her that you want her for the rest of your life. A wedding ring, to me, is just that it's official. That's why the wedding band is usually just plain, solid platinum or gold (or silver). But the commitment is still there the moment you propose and slip that rubber.. I mean ring.. on.
And as such, I'm not gonna shop the Home Shopping Network's Suzanne Sommers collection for a $2.99 cubic zarconia ring when I propose to my lady. If I'm going to be doing something that I plan to only do once in my life, for the person who makes my world a much better place, then I'm going to do it right.
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Heh, the best way I show my partner that I love her is to be there for her when she needs me, believe in her, and know that she believesin me. What's a rock going to tell her that our obvious affection for each other does not? The simple act of being there for your partner is more honest than diamonds, and, believe it or not, it lasts longer.
And she really does prefer Cubic Zircona :)
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Congrats Kazan
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Originally posted by Flipside
Heh, the best way I show my partner that I love her is to be there for her when she needs me, believe in her, and know that she believesin me. What's a rock going to tell her that our obvious affection for each other does not? The simple act of being there for your partner is more honest than diamonds, and, believe it or not, it lasts longer.
And she really does prefer Cubic Zircona :)
It's not the rock or the ring, it's what it represents.
The ring represents the unendingness of your love for each other.
The diamond represents the strength and permanence of the bond that you enter into with the girl.
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Liberator: sing the chorus of Dabeers
you realize nobody thought that until in the 1920s DaBeers sent sales reps around to shows all over the united states and performed the single most successful social hack in history
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Originally posted by ZylonBane
(http://www.sallys-place.com/images/beverages/beer/beers.jpg)
Ah, da beers...
Indeed.
And I never heard of De Beers before reading this thread. What's the whole deal?
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Originally posted by J3Vr6
And "what are they teaching *kids* these days?" I'm pushing close to 30, now u make me feel old (empties colostomy bag). If you think the engagement ring isn't also a symbol of your unity, then we got a different belief in that. I don't know about you guys, but I don't just give any girl an engagement ring. To me, you give a girl an engagement ring, and it's your commitment to her that you want her for the rest of your life. A wedding ring, to me, is just that it's official. That's why the wedding band is usually just plain, solid platinum or gold (or silver). But the commitment is still there the moment you propose and slip that rubber.. I mean ring.. on.
You kids these days. Close to thirty? Speak up when you GET to thirty.
You're right: the engagement ring IS a symbol of commitment, but its not a symbol of unity. Its a commitment to take the NEXT step and get the wedding ring, the symbol of the union of your two lives. Union... unity... see how it works? The wedding band is a plain circle with no blandishments or fripperies because symbolizes something simple and pure, that requires no decoration: the binding together forever (well in theory) of your lives.
For what its worth, historically, the engagement ring is a relatively new concept, whilst the wedding ring is positively ancient. Kaz is absolutely correct: the whole diamond engagement ring is the secular creation of a consortium to push diamond sales. It has absolutely no symbolic value and certainly no religious basis.
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(http://grog.uchicago.edu/fark/trueadvert1.jpg)
Yeah right, the day they stop is the day I'm gone.
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Kaz are you suspious of everybodies motives?
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You should be suspicous of the motives of anyone who wants you to part with two months' salary for ANYTHING. Its called "personal financial responsibility". The sad fact of the world today (and perhaps all time) is that you cannot trust anyone's motives when your loss will be their gain.
Take DeBiers and their ilk. They have a problem: diamonds are A) not really as rare as they make out, and B) people just don't buy diamonds all the time. They want to make money, so what do they do? Induce artificial scarcity, and create an excuse for people to spend money on their product. It works even better if you can tie this excuse to something people have a gut, emotional reaction to. Thus they create the 'diamond engagement ring'. They proclaim, "See, proof of your love! PHAT L3WT ON HER HAND! 0wnt!!!1111" Its pure psychology and advertising.
Kaz knows the score as do I. We just want to keep the world HONEST.
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EDIT: Never mind. Boy I seem to be doing this a lot lately. :D
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mik, how is that anything but honest? Social engineering always plays a part in getting consumers to buy 'new' things, such as the whole mobile/cell-phone industry. If DeBeers got to where it is these days by legal (I won't say legitimate, since that's more open to ambiguity) business practises, they deserve their success.
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Yup.
If they're willing to try hard enough, good for them.
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Originally posted by SadisticSid
mik, how is that anything but honest? Social engineering always plays a part in getting consumers to buy 'new' things, such as the whole mobile/cell-phone industry. If DeBeers got to where it is these days by legal (I won't say legitimate, since that's more open to ambiguity) business practises, they deserve their success.
In this case I mean 'Honest' as in 'providing an alternative point of view'. Kinda like the President keeps the Congress "honest" with his veto, and Congress keeps the President "honest" by being able to override his veto if necessary. Notice, that I'm not saying that either one is "honest" in the sense that they are "truthful and free from prevarication and falsehood".
Sorry for the confusion.
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My symbol of my love and devotion for my partner is my love and devotion for my partner, it's easy to carry, and if Sharon goes out alone, theres no chance of her being attacked for it ;)
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Originally posted by mikhael
You kids these days. Close to thirty? Speak up when you GET to thirty.
Bah, I pee on you. If we're going to get into a "I'm older than you so I know more about the world and ways of man" I am not only going to pee but poop too, and I had corn last night.
Posted by Mikhael:
You're right: the engagement ring IS a symbol of commitment, but its not a symbol of unity. Its a commitment to take the NEXT step and get the wedding ring, the symbol of the union of your two lives. Union... unity... see how it works?...
It seems we have a different belief in that regard (note, someones belief doesn't necessarily have to be the mainstream). I refer to what I wrote last time on what I believe in:
Originally posted by me:
If you think the engagement ring isn't also a symbol of your unity, then we got a different belief in that. I don't know about you guys, but I don't just give any girl an engagement ring. To me, you give a girl an engagement ring, and it's your commitment to her that you want her for the rest of your life. A wedding ring, to me, is just that it's official.
So it's kosher. I respect and understand what you're saying, no need to explain how union and unity works. Engagement, for me, is as important as marriage to me. If you've commited to marry, then you should have had that commitment since the moment you've been engaged (or you wouldn't have proposed in the first place, no?) I just feel differently about it than you do. All is right in the world again, even if we have different views.
Posted by Mikhael:
...the whole diamond engagement ring is the secular creation of a consortium to push diamond sales. It has absolutely no symbolic value and certainly no religious basis. [/B]
That's certainly true. But that won't stop me from buying one when I propose. Dabeers has been cornering the market on diamonds, it's practically a monopoly. Until test tube diamonds become more mainstream, prices for those diamonds won't drop. Will I be happy by what I pay? Depends on how much I overpaid or not. A diamond ring has to also be seen as an investment (at least that will help stomach some of the Mylanta). Will I spend 2 months salary? HELL NO, that would be as much as a downpayment on a house. That's just them trying to guilt you into spending more.
EDIT: I forgot to close a quote, d'oh me.
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Originally posted by Liberator
It's not the rock or the ring, it's what it represents.
The ring represents the unendingness of your love for each other.
The diamond represents the strength and permanence of the bond that you enter into with the girl.
If all that is 100% how come they don't buy us something?
When the diamond trade started this whole scheme up in the 20's it was one thing but now women work too. Where's the symbol of love for us men?
BTW. When did a engagement ring become 2 months salary? I thought it was only one months worth?
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Men have, socially anyway, always been considered the providers. A Wife can depend on their Husband for all financial matters and not be chastised. Husbands who depend on their Wives for support are considered to be bastards of one sort or another.
Last I looked, and this was a while ago, a diamond ring could be had at a local jewelry store for $200-300. These days, for a man considering marriage and all that comes with it, that shouldn't be a month's salary.
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Why does it have to cost a set amount?
And Kaz, if you didn't like De Beers, why didn't you get a Canadian diamond?
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i honestly don't know who the supplier was - but the diamond industry is all one big cartel
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Yeah it's the OPEC of jewelry.
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Originally posted by Kazan
i honestly don't know who the supplier was - but the diamond industry is all one big cartel
Shows what you know. You realize the Canadian diamond firms have a very good chance of breaking the de beers monopoly wide open, right?
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Actually the Lab diamond firms have the best chance :D
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i figured i probably should respond to this
Originally posted by Liberator
Kaz are you suspious of everybodies motives?
maybe your problem is that you _don't_
You should always consider possible motives when trying to figure out another persons actions, thoughts, etc.
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[color=cc9900]You should always consider possible motives, on that point I agree. However, how you act on those considerations requires more careful thought depending on the situation - it doesn't always involve jumping down someone's throat, inviting though it may seem.[/color]
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Originally posted by Liberator
Men have, socially anyway, always been considered the providers. A Wife can depend on their Husband for all financial matters and not be chastised. Husbands who depend on their Wives for support are considered to be bastards of one sort or another.
I'm not talking about support. I'm talking about a gift to show that you love your fiance. Why should only men have to do that?
Men should demand a big screen TV as an engagement gift. It would be symbolic of the fact that we're settling down and spending most nights at home instead of out partying with the lads ;)
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[color=cc9900]An engagement gift that destroys marriages? Interesting idea, to be sure ^_^[/color]
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My wife wanted to give me an engagement ring, but I vetoed it. She also wanted me to have a bachelor's party, but I vetoed that too.
As for exactly why women generally don't give men engagement rings and the like: it boils down to the general disregard society has for post-mating males. But that's another conversation.
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Well, I hardly know what to say. Hope you have a happy life, Kazan.
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Originally posted by mikhael
My wife wanted to give me an engagement ring, but I vetoed it. She also wanted me to have a bachelor's party, but I vetoed that too.
As for exactly why women generally don't give men engagement rings and the like: it boils down to the general disregard society has for post-mating males. But that's another conversation.
Makes me wonder what else you "vetoed"...
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Originally posted by Kazan
Actually the Lab diamond firms have the best chance :D
Except lab diamonds aren't authentic, and authenticity will always have a place.
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Ah, the goth-ness asserts itself.
Just accept that everyone and everything is fake and move on, Shrikey. I know it's hard but......err.........Carry on.
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Originally posted by Shrike
Except lab diamonds aren't authentic, and authenticity will always have a place.
define "aren't authentic" because they're the exact same crystal matrix, and are typically flawless
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Originally posted by Kazan
define "aren't authentic" because they're the exact same crystal matrix, and are typically flawless
These ones didnt take a few million years to make...
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actually naturally occuring ones don't take a million years to make.. they don't take that long to crystalize
you two just mean they're not "authentically fakely-scare"
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Originally posted by Kazan
actually naturally occuring ones don't take a million years to make.. they don't take that long to crystalize
you two just mean they're not "authentically fakely-scare"
Actually I couldt care either way, I was just guessing at what he meant...
I'm not into the ring thing. If I want to tell a girl I love her and want to spend the rest of my life, I'll bloody say it.
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Don't mind Kaz, he hates almost everybody and just isn't man enough to admit it.
Scratch that, he hates people who make their living scheistering(sp?) people and everybody who's not a bible burning atheist.
I still wish him happiness in his new, married life.
I think 20 is too young and so does just about everybody else with any expertise on the subject. Hell, at 20 I wasn't sure what was going to be happening 5 days away, much less needing to plan for children, private school if you prefer, college after that, and God know what else.
Despite this, Kazan, with all the sincerity I can muster, I hope you and your Chosen have a wonderful life the likes of which you can't even imagine yet.
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Originally posted by Kazan
you two just mean they're not "authentically fakely-scare"
Diamonds don't exactly grow on trees either. While they almost certainly cost more than they're really worth, gem-quality diamonds are still rare. It's only relatively recently with discoveries in Canada and Siberia that any significant new diamond fields have been found in the last while. They take some rather specific geologic formations, ones that are not all that common.
Plus artificial diamonds have the stigma of being artificial. Yes, you can tell them apart. Artificial diamonds can be too perfect.
As for not authentic, what's the point of buying diamond jewelry if it's not authentic out of the ground? Aren't you getting it because you want something expensive? Like I said, if it was me I'd get something totally different. There's a lot of more attractive gemstones out there, ones that don't look like a chunk of extra-sparkly glass.
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Like amethysts, emeralds, topazes and, mmmm, saphires.
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This is cool. I am shopping for an Ring. Anybody have any good sites to look at? Up north or fake is ok by me.
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Originally posted by Liberator
Don't mind Kaz, he hates almost everybody and just isn't man enough to admit it.
Scratch that, he hates people who make their living scheistering(sp?) people and everybody who's not a bible burning atheist.
I don't think Kaz hates me, and I've never burned a Bible in my life. And I'm certainly no atheist. ;)
I think 20 is too young and so does just about everybody else with any expertise on the subject. Hell, at 20 I wasn't sure what was going to be happening 5 days away, much less needing to plan for children, private school if you prefer, college after that, and God know what else.
:lol: At 18yo, I'd already met the woman I fell in love with, and had decided to marry her. At 20, it was set in stone. I may not have known what I was going to do five days from that moment, but I did know that I was going to marry her one day. It took another five years before I actually DID marry her, mind you.
20yo is too young for SOME people, but by no means all or even most.
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Liberator can you become any less mature
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probably not, I freely admit I have the mentality of a 12yo. That's probably why I don't understand why "Adults" have to make things so difficult. Especially in matters of Law or Politics.
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The simple way being...?
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Difficult?? We are the ones who want to live and let live, you're the one trying to place constraints on who can do what, and we are the ones being difficult?
That's rich ;)
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Hooray for hypocrisy! :rolleyes:
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And you(the Left/liberals/Socialists/Commies/Hedonists/ect.) want to force Society(which I beleive is still moral in it's make up) toward your Ideal. So much for live and let live, huh?
The difference is I want certain parts of society to stay the same(i.e. moral, ethical and maybe even honorable behavior on the part of Public Servants and people in general.).
BTW, if you want to attack me start a new thread. This one is to congratulate Kazan on his upcoming marriage.
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Suppose you're right. This is Kazan's thread, we'll let Kazan have dibs on ripping into your deranged ass.
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You're right Stryke, though I'm going to have to bite my fingers after that last comment there... Think I'll just leave Liberator to find out the hard way, since he seems to think that saying 'Do what you feel makes you complete, and don't do it if you don't want to' is more a matter of 'Force' that 'You can't do that because I'm sexually insecure and because I have a screwed idea that Morals are equivalent to getting my own way because I am perfect and live a perfect life and am so incredibly close to a deity that I have the right to judge absolutely everyone else on the planet.'.
If you want to choose to live the life you lead, then good luck to you and I wish you happiness, but don't tell anyone else how to live their life, or who to love, because, quite frankly, it's absolutely none of your busniess.
Anyway, sorry Kaz, I'm getting angry again.
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Me, too, but there'll no doubt be plenty more opportunities.
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Originally posted by Liberator
And you(the Left/liberals/Socialists/Commies/Hedonists/ect.) want to force Society(which I beleive is still moral in it's make up) toward your Ideal. So much for live and let live, huh?
Way to label people without knowing a damn thing about their beleifs.
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Originally posted by Liberator
freely admit I have the mentality of a 12yo.
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Oh well, it seems i'm late... Congratulations Kazan, get a long and happy life with your wife.
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Wow, u guys get busy during the weekend...
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[color=cc9900]Yeah, sure I do, but not here... ;7
:nervous:[/color]