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Modding, Mission Design, and Coding => FS2 Open Coding - The Source Code Project (SCP) => Topic started by: Shadow_jdct on March 13, 2004, 10:28:24 am

Title: The "pierce" flag
Post by: Shadow_jdct on March 13, 2004, 10:28:24 am
IIRC, in FSO 3.4 there was a weaons table flag called pierce, that enabled the weapon to pierce shields. I made a weapon that used this flag, and it worked fine, but with newer FSO versions it doesn't, and the FRED2 OGL debug thing says that the flag is invalid. What happened to the pierce flag?:confused:
Title: The "pierce" flag
Post by: Bobboau on March 13, 2004, 12:36:43 pm
looks like for some reason beond me the name was changed to "pierce shields"
Title: The "pierce" flag
Post by: Carl on March 13, 2004, 01:36:09 pm
maybe the should change it to "Pierce Brosnan" or maybe "Guy Pierce"
Title: The "pierce" flag
Post by: TopAce on March 15, 2004, 05:30:01 am
As far as I know, the flag is actually 'no pierce shields', which is valid for the AAAs.
Or simply set the $Shield factor to 15.0.
Title: The "pierce" flag
Post by: Mav on March 15, 2004, 09:16:02 am
A bit confusing, this one. I made a Fighterbeam for v3.5.5 without the 'no pierce shields'-flag, but it didn't pierce shields. Was this one added in later versions, or got I something else wrong? :confused:
Also, the range limit seemed to be only an AI targeting limit. I could kill targets that were 5 or more times the set range away, but the AI only used it within the set range.
And Flak & AAA turrets don't work on player ships with that SCP version (sorry that I'm not up to date with the builds :nervous: ).

Has anything of this been fixed yet?
Title: The "pierce" flag
Post by: Taristin on March 15, 2004, 09:22:21 am
:lol:

'no pierce shields' will do just that. Make it so it cannot pierce shields. 'pierce shields' will pierce shields. I'm sorry, but this one is a big 'D'uh"
Title: The "pierce" flag
Post by: kasperl on March 15, 2004, 09:23:31 am
Quote
Originally posted by Mav
A bit confusing, this one. I made a Fighterbeam for v3.5.5 [size=10]without[/size] the 'no pierce shields'-flag, but it didn't pierce shields. Was this one added in later versions, or got I something else wrong? :confused:
Also, the range limit seemed to be only an AI targeting limit. I could kill targets that were 5 or more times the set range away, but the AI only used it within the set range.
And Flak & AAA turrets don't work on player ships with that SCP version (sorry that I'm not up to date with the builds :nervous: ).

Has anything of this been fixed yet?
Title: The "pierce" flag
Post by: Taristin on March 15, 2004, 09:24:49 am
Ok. So I can't read.
Title: The "pierce" flag
Post by: Sesquipedalian on March 16, 2004, 02:49:35 am
I believe there were one or two builds released that had beams not piercing shields by default.  This was later changed back because it threw off play balance.  It sounds like Mav has one of these builds.  A simple update should solve it.
Title: The "pierce" flag
Post by: Mav on March 18, 2004, 02:48:19 pm
Uh, ... I am a lil' outdated, I know. ;)
Thanks for the explanation. :)  And if it's any help: As far as I do know it is the official 3.5.5 I was using. [got a newer one over the last days; didn't test it that much yet]
Though actually more disgusting for me was the thing that range restrictions seemed only to apply to the AI - makes things kinda hard to balance if the player has nearly unlimited range. :(
Title: The "pierce" flag
Post by: TopAce on March 18, 2004, 02:54:44 pm
Why couldn't FSO keep the FS retail AAA beam handling as a default? Why should it pierce shields at all? If there is something that drops the game balance into the trash can, then this is that.
Title: The "pierce" flag
Post by: Mav on March 18, 2004, 03:20:50 pm
... to give more freedom to modders???
Title: The "pierce" flag
Post by: karajorma on March 18, 2004, 04:03:01 pm
Quote
Originally posted by TopAce
Why couldn't FSO keep the FS retail AAA beam handling as a default? Why should it pierce shields at all? If there is something that drops the game balance into the trash can, then this is that.


You do realise that AAA beams pierce shields In FS2 Retail don't you? The reason they did this is precisely because making beams not pierce shields drops the game balance into the trash can
Title: The "pierce" flag
Post by: TopAce on March 18, 2004, 04:48:42 pm
Wait ... doesn't 'pierce shields' mean that it neutralizes your shields on the side the beam hits you?
In [V] FreeSpace, the AAA only went throught your shields, it didn't damage it.
Title: The "pierce" flag
Post by: Bobboau on March 18, 2004, 07:36:00 pm
that's what pierce does
Title: The "pierce" flag
Post by: Trivial Psychic on March 18, 2004, 11:10:55 pm
Does what, neutralize (deplete fully) or slip through without dammaging the shields at all?
Title: The "pierce" flag
Post by: ChronoReverse on March 18, 2004, 11:15:53 pm
Pierce Shields (aka vanilla FS2) == goes through shields and does not damage shields


No Pierce Shield ==  Shields will block the beam for the brief blip before they're completely drained
Title: The "pierce" flag
Post by: Sesquipedalian on March 19, 2004, 04:26:34 pm
Incidentally, if you want AAA beams to damage shields, rather than pierce them, but want to keep the gameplay balance, make the following changes to your AAA beams:

1) Increase the $Armor Factor from 1.0 to 1.3
2) Increase the $Shield Factor from 1.0 to 3.0

I did the math on this a while ago, and modifying the values this way will cause the beams to kill you as quickly as they do in FS2 retail, while still bringing down shields before damaging your hull.
Title: The "pierce" flag
Post by: Kazan on March 19, 2004, 04:46:27 pm
and then be unable to play multiplayer because you have hacked tables
Title: The "pierce" flag
Post by: Sesquipedalian on March 21, 2004, 02:56:13 am
I've so very glad you mentioned that, because I certainly didn't know that before.  Please, can you tell me what mind-bending, complex procedure I must execute to be able to play multi again?
:rolleyes:
Title: The "pierce" flag
Post by: TopAce on March 21, 2004, 05:22:13 am
Use Volition FreeSpace, and remove your tables.
Title: The "pierce" flag
Post by: karajorma on March 21, 2004, 05:54:26 am
You can play on FS2_open easily despite what TopAce says :)

Make sure you have no mods installed (simply rename your data folder and make a new one if you do). Then go to this thread (http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php/topic,21295.0.html) and download the exe file.  Follow the instructions in Kazan's post.
Title: The "pierce" flag
Post by: Sesquipedalian on March 21, 2004, 01:27:23 pm
Apparently we really do need a :sarcasm: smilie, since :rolleyes: isn't good enough to communicate it.
Title: The "pierce" flag
Post by: TopAce on March 21, 2004, 03:08:01 pm
Quote
Originally posted by karajorma
You can play on FS2_open easily despite what TopAce says :)
...


Just Volition FreeSpace doesn't quit if you target a debris/asteroid by chance. [V] FS is more reliable. However, FSO is better if you hunt for screenshots.
Title: The "pierce" flag
Post by: karajorma on March 21, 2004, 03:22:28 pm
It only crashes if you press y twice in under a second. Just don't do it.
Title: The "pierce" flag
Post by: Taristin on March 21, 2004, 03:32:06 pm
I've not had that problem. :confused:
Title: The "pierce" flag
Post by: Bobboau on March 21, 2004, 03:54:26 pm
the 'y' bug may have been resolved, try running any of the recent builds, if it still happens we realy realy realy need to now
Title: The "pierce" flag
Post by: ChronoReverse on March 21, 2004, 06:16:53 pm
I need to test it with a newer build, but in Kazan's netbuild and the 3_05_2004 build, if something warps in and you start hammering at 'y' it will CTD.
Title: The "pierce" flag
Post by: Bobboau on March 21, 2004, 06:23:20 pm
now, by resolved I don't mean we fixed it, I put in some code to track it down and as usual if you ever get close to to it it disapears, so if you do experience the bug in any new builds you have information within your error log that will be extreemly valuable to us.