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Off-Topic Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: karajorma on March 15, 2004, 11:49:11 am

Title: Astronomers Discover new Planetoid 3/4 The Size Of Pluto
Post by: karajorma on March 15, 2004, 11:49:11 am
In further proof that Pluto is nothing special astronomers have discovered yet another kuiper belt object of similar size.

Aparently they're calling it Sedna after an Inuit Goddess.

Read more here (http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/73/36244.html)
Title: Astronomers Discover new Planetoid 3/4 The Size Of Pluto
Post by: diamondgeezer on March 15, 2004, 11:50:35 am
I stopped regarding Pluto as a card-carrying planet some years back. I'd still be interested to get a probe out there to poke it a goodly bit, mind
Title: Astronomers Discover new Planetoid 3/4 The Size Of Pluto
Post by: Flipside on March 15, 2004, 11:59:04 am
Great, someone found a rock. Charon would be quite interesting to look at, if only to confirm it used to be half of Pluto, I suppose that's the only interesting thing about Pluto, it's the only Binary Planet we know, though Earth isn't all that far off.

It's useful to science I suppose, but it still doesn't account for those discrepencies in the Outer Planet Orbits.
Title: Astronomers Discover new Planetoid 3/4 The Size Of Pluto
Post by: kasperl on March 15, 2004, 11:59:09 am
more info here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sedna_(astronomical_object) as well.

and really, planetoid sounds a lot more correct then planet.
Title: Astronomers Discover new Planetoid 3/4 The Size Of Pluto
Post by: T-Man on March 15, 2004, 12:04:46 pm
I feel soo sorry for those astromoners. They spend all their lives finding "planet X" and end up finding some pathetic little ball of dust!

Blaise Russel's gonna need a new faction for Sol: A history :lol:
Title: Astronomers Discover new Planetoid 3/4 The Size Of Pluto
Post by: Janos on March 15, 2004, 12:15:30 pm
QUAOAR
Title: Astronomers Discover new Planetoid 3/4 The Size Of Pluto
Post by: karajorma on March 15, 2004, 12:18:23 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Flipside
Great, someone found a rock.


It's not just a roock. It's the rock furthest out from the sun! :D
Title: You missed this bit:
Post by: Liberator on March 15, 2004, 01:39:53 pm
They think it has a moon! :lol:

It's funny that they can make such a proclamation like that given it's size and distance.  More likely the 'moon' is an obect with a similar orbit.
Title: Astronomers Discover new Planetoid 3/4 The Size Of Pluto
Post by: kasperl on March 15, 2004, 01:41:06 pm
they might just have looked at it's orbit, and saw it slightly wobbled, or something. just as they spot planets in extra solar systems.
Title: Astronomers Discover new Planetoid 3/4 The Size Of Pluto
Post by: Bobboau on March 15, 2004, 01:55:56 pm
yeah, you seem to think they just proclaim things like that becase it's fun.
Title: Astronomers Discover new Planetoid 3/4 The Size Of Pluto
Post by: Flipside on March 15, 2004, 02:03:46 pm
Make that 2 rocks ;)
Title: Astronomers Discover new Planetoid 3/4 The Size Of Pluto
Post by: karajorma on March 15, 2004, 02:14:24 pm
Why shouldn't it have a moon? Pluto has one and is just the same thing only a little bigger.

EDIT : Here's a longer article about it from space.com (http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/new_object_040315.html)
Title: Astronomers Discover new Planetoid 3/4 The Size Of Pluto
Post by: Liberator on March 15, 2004, 03:24:21 pm
They've know about it for 2 days max.  So unless they're using some kind of fancy secret gravitic sensor to study the relationship between the two objects, I'll hold off calling it a moon until they have definitive proof.
Title: Astronomers Discover new Planetoid 3/4 The Size Of Pluto
Post by: Zuljin on March 15, 2004, 03:29:44 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Liberator
They've know about it for 2 days max.  So unless they're using some kind of fancy secret gravitic sensor to study the relationship between the two objects, I'll hold off calling it a moon until they have definitive proof.


Quote
Sedna was first sighted in November 2003. Mike Brown (CalTech) and Chad Trujillo, of the Gemini Observatory in Hawaii, and David Rabinowitz, of Yale University, spotted the worldlette through the 48-inch telescope at Caltech's Palomar Observatory.


thats 2 awfully long days I would say..
Title: Astronomers Discover new Planetoid 3/4 The Size Of Pluto
Post by: Flipside on March 15, 2004, 03:38:00 pm
Ummm... and if they can tell from the influence of gravity on other stars that planets are orbitting them, then doing it from much closer should be easier, I would have thought.
Title: Astronomers Discover new Planetoid 3/4 The Size Of Pluto
Post by: Grey Wolf on March 15, 2004, 04:03:15 pm
It would be, especially as a moon, even if it resembled the moons of Mars, would be a far higher percentage of the mass of the planetoid than practically any planet would be of a star.
Title: Astronomers Discover new Planetoid 3/4 The Size Of Pluto
Post by: Dark_4ce on March 15, 2004, 05:30:06 pm
I wonder when they're gonna find Rupert.
Title: Astronomers Discover new Planetoid 3/4 The Size Of Pluto
Post by: Ace on March 15, 2004, 07:32:27 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Zuljin

thats 2 awfully long days I would say..


They're biblical days... :D

Seriously though, I don't doubt that with the observations that you could determine the presence of a moon or not. Even if its moon is just a captured comet.
Title: Astronomers Discover new Planetoid 3/4 The Size Of Pluto
Post by: Xelion on March 16, 2004, 12:17:40 am
Seeing it has a similar environment to Mars, it could have possibly had some life in the very distant past... why its on such an orbit is unusual.
Title: Re: Astronomers Discover new Planetoid 3/4 The Size Of Pluto
Post by: Xelion on March 16, 2004, 12:21:34 am
Quote
Originally posted by karajorma
Inuit Goddess.


As much as that is true I think Ocean Goddess would describe her better. :D
Title: Astronomers Discover new Planetoid 3/4 The Size Of Pluto
Post by: Ace on March 16, 2004, 12:23:16 am
Quote
Originally posted by Xelion
Seeing it has a similar environment to Mars, it could have possibly had some life in the very distant past... why its on such an orbit is unusual.


Errmm... what part of tiny, round, dirty iceball at the edge of the solar system resembles Mars? Other than the round part...

Also, its orbit is pretty usual for a KBO.
Title: Astronomers Discover new Planetoid 3/4 The Size Of Pluto
Post by: Xelion on March 16, 2004, 12:34:44 am
color, surface features I guess just basically what I said before, ENVIRONMENT.
Title: Astronomers Discover new Planetoid 3/4 The Size Of Pluto
Post by: Ace on March 16, 2004, 12:39:24 am
Quote
Originally posted by Xelion
color, surface features I guess just basically what I said before, ENVIRONMENT.


First off, we don't know what the surface features are. Plus environment would take into conditions such as surface temperature and composition, which is definately not going to be like Mars despite similar coloration.
Title: Astronomers Discover new Planetoid 3/4 The Size Of Pluto
Post by: Knight Templar on March 16, 2004, 01:09:40 am
I thought they said it was red?

And Inuit? That seems a little out of place, what with the current naming scheme of the solar system...
Title: Astronomers Discover new Planetoid 3/4 The Size Of Pluto
Post by: Bobboau on March 16, 2004, 01:44:49 am
Mars is almost liveable, this thing probly has oceans of liquid nitrogen,
it's a planet made entierly out of ice.
it's realy. fuc'n. cold.
mars on the other hand gets up to (I beleve) about 60(f) around the equator
Title: Astronomers Discover new Planetoid 3/4 The Size Of Pluto
Post by: Nico on March 16, 2004, 01:49:42 am
Quote
Originally posted by Knight Templar
I thought they said it was red?

And Inuit? That seems a little out of place, what with the current naming scheme of the solar system...


Iniut??? Change that name, it's not FS2 canon!!!!
ah, oups, wrong place.
Title: Astronomers Discover new Planetoid 3/4 The Size Of Pluto
Post by: Xelion on March 16, 2004, 07:51:33 am
News is as misleading as it can be.. so I'm not saying anything more until I know something solid :p
Title: Astronomers Discover new Planetoid 3/4 The Size Of Pluto
Post by: aldo_14 on March 16, 2004, 09:15:49 am
Quote
Originally posted by Bobboau
Mars is almost liveable, this thing probly has oceans of liquid nitrogen,
it's a planet made entierly out of ice.
it's realy. fuc'n. cold.
mars on the other hand gets up to (I beleve) about 60(f) around the equator


:nod:

'tis so far away, that you can block out the sun with the end of a pin.  Bit like Aberdeen, then.  :D
Title: Astronomers Discover new Planetoid 3/4 The Size Of Pluto
Post by: Flipside on March 16, 2004, 12:43:05 pm
LOL Better than Glasgow, you have to FIND the sun first ;)
Title: Astronomers Discover new Planetoid 3/4 The Size Of Pluto
Post by: Corsair on March 16, 2004, 05:16:27 pm
...new planet. :ha:

There's still something out there though....I think.
Title: Astronomers Discover new Planetoid 3/4 The Size Of Pluto
Post by: Flipside on March 16, 2004, 05:28:56 pm
oid ;)

Theres loads out there ;) But if you mean theres still something in the Solar System we haven't found yet, as far as I'm aware the answer is yes.
I'm not sure if it was ever solved, but I do know that there are variations in Pluto's orbit that it was thought could only have been caused by a large gravitational force outside the orbit of Pluto, larger than Mr and Mrs Rock anyway ;)
Title: Astronomers Discover new Planetoid 3/4 The Size Of Pluto
Post by: Grey Wolf on March 16, 2004, 05:31:14 pm
I'm still amused by the Nemesis concept....
Title: Astronomers Discover new Planetoid 3/4 The Size Of Pluto
Post by: Flipside on March 16, 2004, 05:38:46 pm
hehehehe That's the Discworld of the 80's that is ;)

Theres still some evidence to support Vulcan oddly enough ;)
Title: Astronomers Discover new Planetoid 3/4 The Size Of Pluto
Post by: Lightspeed on March 16, 2004, 05:47:59 pm
Mars goes up to ~ 22° C on warmer spots :)

Near volcanoes probably even warmer.

The little Sedna, on the other hand doesn't get any warmer than -230 °C, nor does it have an atmosphere like Mars does.

Also, being red doesn't even mean its made from the same substances.
Title: Astronomers Discover new Planetoid 3/4 The Size Of Pluto
Post by: adwight on March 16, 2004, 08:21:56 pm
Why don't they just take the Hubble and have it take pictures?  I thought that thing could take pictures of things outside our solar system.
Title: Astronomers Discover new Planetoid 3/4 The Size Of Pluto
Post by: StratComm on March 16, 2004, 09:25:18 pm
They'd have to get on the list to point the Hubble in the right direction.  It's several years long IIRC.  Of course, I can't remember ever seeing any pictures of planets or asteroids actually taken with the hubble either, so it may be too powerful to see anything at that close a range.
Title: Astronomers Discover new Planetoid 3/4 The Size Of Pluto
Post by: Liberator on March 16, 2004, 09:44:43 pm
That's assuming it last's that long.:sigh:   Stupid Beaurecrats.:mad:   Fire the Director or NASA NOW! :hopping:
Title: Astronomers Discover new Planetoid 3/4 The Size Of Pluto
Post by: Ace on March 17, 2004, 01:57:45 am
Hubble has taken shots of several planets in the solar system. It cannot take shots of Mercury due to the risk of the sun damaging the instruments on Hubble since it was not designed for the type of light exposure it would receive.

The list has nothing to do with beaurocrats in NASA, it does deal with the fact that the Hubble is a limited asset due to the lack of space telescopes. If you want to blame someone, blame the people who are cutting the NASA budget and forcing the "smaller, cheaper, faster" probes as opposed to projects such as Hubble or the inferometers. But if you have to fire someone, since the Vice President is the one in charge of NASA, fire Dick Cheney :)
Title: Astronomers Discover new Planetoid 3/4 The Size Of Pluto
Post by: kasperl on March 17, 2004, 03:03:40 am
Quote
Originally posted by Ace
fire Dick Cheney :)


best thing i heard all day.
Title: Astronomers Discover new Planetoid 3/4 The Size Of Pluto
Post by: Nico on March 17, 2004, 03:51:55 am
Quote
Originally posted by Lightspeed
Mars goes up to ~ 22° C on warmer spots :)

Near volcanoes probably even warmer.
 


I don't think so. Since Mars is a dead planet w/o tectonic activities or anything, I'd assume the volcanoes are dead too, no?
I don't know, heh, I'm just asking.
Title: Astronomers Discover new Planetoid 3/4 The Size Of Pluto
Post by: Zuljin on March 17, 2004, 04:22:17 am
Quote
Originally posted by Nico


I don't think so. Since Mars is a dead planet w/o tectonic activities or anything, I'd assume the volcanoes are dead too, no?
I don't know, heh, I'm just asking.


if the planet was "dead", and had no core activity what-so-ever.
Then I believe the whole planet would be one giant chunk of ice
Title: Astronomers Discover new Planetoid 3/4 The Size Of Pluto
Post by: Xelion on March 17, 2004, 05:09:41 am
(http://home.iprimus.com.au/nexus387/forums/sedna.jpg)

Enough Said :D..

Copyright Source: The West Australian :nervous: "Educational Purposes Only"
Title: Astronomers Discover new Planetoid 3/4 The Size Of Pluto
Post by: Nico on March 17, 2004, 05:14:46 am
Quote
Originally posted by Zuljin


if the planet was "dead", and had no core activity what-so-ever.
Then I believe the whole planet would be one giant chunk of ice


Well no, it has atmosphere. Atmosphere traps sunrays and stuff.
Title: Astronomers Discover new Planetoid 3/4 The Size Of Pluto
Post by: StratComm on March 17, 2004, 09:26:17 am
There are a lot of objects in the solar system that are geologically dead yet still are rocky.  Take any asteroid found within Jupiter's orbit, for example.  Or Mercury.  Or the larger moons of Jupiter or Saturn.  To be a chunk of ice the body must not only be geologically dead but also pretty distant from the sun.
Title: Astronomers Discover new Planetoid 3/4 The Size Of Pluto
Post by: Liberator on March 17, 2004, 10:56:50 am
No, NASA'a budget has been relatively stable at 15 billon for over a decade.  That leaves two options:

1.  The Director is a Beaurecrat who doesn't know or doesn't care that Hubble is the only tool that can do certain jobs.

or(this one is kind of out there)

2.  The Government is concealing the fact that we are in contact with aliens and there are so many up there that it is becoming undeniable.

I'm with #1 in this case although #2 has had some convincing arguments put forward in recent months.
Title: Astronomers Discover new Planetoid 3/4 The Size Of Pluto
Post by: Lightspeed on March 17, 2004, 11:43:57 am
Quote
Originally posted by Nico


I don't think so. Since Mars is a dead planet w/o tectonic activities or anything, I'd assume the volcanoes are dead too, no?
I don't know, heh, I'm just asking.


The vulcanoes on mars are a) partially still active and b) the biggest to be found in our solar system.

The planet's definately not dead. But you could say its climate is too chaotic to maintain/develop any form of life. The Mars' moons are not enough to stabilize the planet, so the rotational axis wobbles around, leading to desertification (go figure) as well as drastic climate shifts in short time periods. :)
Title: Astronomers Discover new Planetoid 3/4 The Size Of Pluto
Post by: aldo_14 on March 17, 2004, 02:22:45 pm
There's a volcano on Mars about the sive of Everest, IIRC.

Incidentally, the mars express probe has found evidence of frozen water on the (south?) pole of Mars - frozen water, frozen with dirt and frozen with CO2.
Title: Astronomers Discover new Planetoid 3/4 The Size Of Pluto
Post by: diamondgeezer on March 17, 2004, 02:39:03 pm
DG's big list o' Mars facts™:

Mars is ~ 1/2 the size of Earth

Mars has a the largest mountains (ie. volcanoes) in the solar system

Olympus Mons is 21 miles high (IIRC), which fairly pisses over Everest

Mars has no current geological activty to speak of, save wind errosion (which no-one really gives a **** about cos it's boring)

Mars has no magnetic field to speak of

The previous three facts indicate that Mars has a massively thick crust with virtually no dynamic activity inside the planet



Here endeth the lesson. You have been educated
Title: Astronomers Discover new Planetoid 3/4 The Size Of Pluto
Post by: Lightspeed on March 17, 2004, 02:39:10 pm
the fact that there's frozen H2O on the poles has been known quite a while. :)

One of the biggest volcano on mars has a width of 500 kilometres, with a height of 25 kilometres.

Temperature can get to 25°C, with a temperature minimum of -133°C, one of Mars' years takes 687 earth days. What's really amazing is that the time a day takes is nearly exactly the same as on Earth.

While an earth day takes 24 hours, a Mars day has 24,6 hours.

Atmosphere composition:

95% CO2
2.7% Nitrogen
1.6% Argon
0.13% Oxygen
Title: Astronomers Discover new Planetoid 3/4 The Size Of Pluto
Post by: Liberator on March 17, 2004, 02:54:40 pm
Quote
Originally posted by diamondgeezer
DG's big list o' Mars facts™:

Mars is ~ 1/2 the size of Earth

Mars has a the largest mountains (ie. volcanoes) in the solar system

Olympus Mons is 21 miles high (IIRC), which fairly pisses over Everest

Mars has no current geological activty to speak of, save wind errosion (which no-one really gives a **** about cos it's boring)

Mars has no magnetic field to speak of

The previous three facts indicate that Mars has a massively thick crust with virtually no dynamic activity inside the planet



Here endeth the lesson. You have been educated


All of which can be explained by the fact that it has no large moons to affect it gravitationally.
Title: Astronomers Discover new Planetoid 3/4 The Size Of Pluto
Post by: Ghostavo on March 17, 2004, 02:58:30 pm
:wtf:
Title: Astronomers Discover new Planetoid 3/4 The Size Of Pluto
Post by: Grey Wolf on March 17, 2004, 03:29:07 pm
You can have volcanic activity without a moon. Io, for example, is a moon itself with massive volcanic activity. A magnetic field for the moon, however, is under debate.
Title: Astronomers Discover new Planetoid 3/4 The Size Of Pluto
Post by: Lightspeed on March 17, 2004, 03:51:20 pm
Io has volcanic activity due to the heavy gravity of the surrounding celestial bodies.
Title: Astronomers Discover new Planetoid 3/4 The Size Of Pluto
Post by: diamondgeezer on March 17, 2004, 04:09:16 pm
Damn straight, Lighty. I spies poeple posting without knowing what they're talking about. Lunar gravity isn't the only cause of volcanism and tectonic activity :nod:
Title: Astronomers Discover new Planetoid 3/4 The Size Of Pluto
Post by: Ghostavo on March 17, 2004, 04:24:20 pm
Last I heard Mars had 2 moons!! If their joint mass can't create enough gravity force, nothing will.
Title: Astronomers Discover new Planetoid 3/4 The Size Of Pluto
Post by: redsniper on March 17, 2004, 04:58:04 pm
maybe the 2 cancel each other out, plus they're much smaller than our moon
Title: Astronomers Discover new Planetoid 3/4 The Size Of Pluto
Post by: karajorma on March 17, 2004, 05:03:43 pm
Deimos and Phobos are tiny.  Phobos is 27km across. Deimos is 16km in diameter. The moon is 3,476km in diameter. Quite a difference wouldn't you say? :D
Title: Astronomers Discover new Planetoid 3/4 The Size Of Pluto
Post by: Lightspeed on March 17, 2004, 05:05:24 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Ghostavo
Last I heard Mars had 2 moons!! If their joint mass can't create enough gravity force, nothing will.


They're called Phobos and Deimos, two ridiculously little pieces of rock.

They're *nowhere* near as big enough to stablize the rotational axis, let alone create any magnetic fields or volcanism

*edit: kara beat me to it.

Still, some of the larger volcanoes on mars are still active. :)
Title: Astronomers Discover new Planetoid 3/4 The Size Of Pluto
Post by: redsniper on March 17, 2004, 05:23:31 pm
soooooo... Now we need to discover a new star and name it Vasuda.
Title: Astronomers Discover new Planetoid 3/4 The Size Of Pluto
Post by: Grey Wolf on March 17, 2004, 05:31:53 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Lightspeed
Io has volcanic activity due to the heavy gravity of the surrounding celestial bodies.
That's what I get for a quick web search. You're right, Lightspeed, it is tidal stresses from Jupiter that cause Io's volcanic activity.

However, IIRC, heat from decaying radioactive isotopes play a role in heating the cores of planet....
Title: Astronomers Discover new Planetoid 3/4 The Size Of Pluto
Post by: karajorma on March 17, 2004, 05:54:31 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Grey Wolf 2009
That's what I get for a quick web search. You're right, Lightspeed, it is tidal stresses from Jupiter that cause Io's volcanic activity.

However, IIRC, heat from decaying radioactive isotopes play a role in heating the cores of planet....


Yep. They play a major role. Io is in fact something of an oddity because it's vulcanism has nothing to do with radioactivity.
Title: Astronomers Discover new Planetoid 3/4 The Size Of Pluto
Post by: Lightspeed on March 17, 2004, 05:57:24 pm
The cores usually are not *that* radioactive. The heat primarily comes from the time they were formed, and they contiunously lose warmth to the surrounding space.

Now, volcanic activity can happen due to a lot of causes. It can start through tectonic activity, gravitational influence, meteor impact, planet climate conditions, etc.

Now for mars it (probably) has the following reasons:

* Less own gravity than earth - lava can more easily be transported to the planet's surface

* Mars volcanoes are fix spots since the surface doesn't move (no tectonic activity)

* The volcanic activity comes from Mars' rotational axis wobbling around

* The crust in the southern hemisphere is thicker - more rock melts on the north side and the landscape sinks till an isostatic balance is reached. This causes gravitational anomalies and thus - volcanism.