Hard Light Productions Forums
Modding, Mission Design, and Coding => The Modding Workshop => Topic started by: Arculis on April 01, 2004, 06:50:43 pm
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I've had this one finished for a while, but I'd planned to make it a set of two, one with missiles and one without. I haven't gotten around to making the one with missiles, so I thought I'd throw this one on the forum and see what people thought of it in the mean time.
GTF Epimetheus A (http://fire.prohosting.com/aaeon/epiA.htm)
Click the link to see pictures.
A few things to note about the GTF Epimetheus A are that its really small. Its designed to be basically a cockpit and guns strapped onto a powerful engine. Yeah, not the most original concept, but that's what it is. Its primary purpose is to take out incoming bombs, which, while I haven't actually tested that, I suspect it will do pretty well considering how fast it is. While its very fast and very small, making it a pain in the butt to take down, it does have several disadvantages too. It has weak shielding and hull, it only supports one primary weapon with two mounts, and it does not have any secondary weapon support. The lack of a secondary weapon can cause an annoying error message in FRED, but I haven't had any other problems with it besides that. This ship should be used exclusively for defensive roles. I tested 4 Myrmidons against 16 Epimetheus A fighters, and the Epimtheus fighters got creamed without doing hardly any damage to the Myrmidons. If you can not outrun or outmeneuver missiles in the Epimetheus, you're as good as dead. Still, they're cheap to make, and should be fairly effective at eliminating enemy bombs, especially if used in decent numbers.
The planned Epimetheus B will sport some missile packs, which should allow it to at least hold its own against typical fighters, at a cost to menueverability.
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Tiny, but rather cool.
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The only problem I have with it, is that the ship is just slightly larger than the cocpit of the herc, and since the cocpit is supposed to be the size of a Terran, it'd have to either be a child's space vessel, or a drone.
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I don't know where you got the idea that the herc's cockpit is supposed to be the size of a Terran, but if you'd bothered to do some measurements like the weirdo at this site (http://www.merzo.net/) did, you'd find out that the cockpit of the Epimetheus, while rather snug, is slightly roomier than your average car's driver seat.
(I modified the comparisons picture so you can see how the pilot fits.)
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you'r pilot is too small, I made similar size comparasons, they are floating around here somewere
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Looks TVWP era.
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I don't see how I could miscalculate this. Assuming the average human is 6 feet tall, that's about 2 meters. So on a 10 pixel per meter scale, that means a human is 20 pixels tall. I calculated the sizes of the ships using Model Viewer. Taking an outline screenshot of the ship and pasting the rendered version over the hull, resizing it to however many meters it says times 10 in pixels, then removing the thruster plumes from the graphic. So the scale should be exact.
I just did the calculations again. Although I discovered that the Epimetheus was a bit undersized (88 instead of 110 pixels), the herc was still accurate. Also, there's a slight difference between the results from ModelViewer and the truespace2 table files.
Oh, and the Epimetheus should be 11 meters long, not 12 :P But oh well. I made two size comparisons that show the difference between modelviewer sizes and truespace table file sizes.
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I wonder if Narol has noticed this yet. ;)
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(http://freespace.volitionwatch.com/blackwater/proof1.jpg)
(http://freespace.volitionwatch.com/blackwater/proof2.jpg)
(http://freespace.volitionwatch.com/blackwater/proof3.jpg)
that herc is 13 meters wide 11 tall and 23 long, prety much the exact same as it is listed in model view
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You'ld have trouble fitting that into the garage.
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According to all the sources/measurements I can find, the Herc is between 20 and 21.5 meters. But I'd rather see some numbers on the little man, since the size of the herc is not whats up for debate.
(As a side note, the pilot of the Epimetheus is expected to actually sit down.)
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It's a wickle baby ship. Ahhhhh. :D
I like it. The ship is 11m long so I don't think we're going to have a problem fitting a person into the cockpit somehow :)
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i'm just going to launch myself into the middle of this, since i know very little about scaling, except that hercs are small, orions are big...
anyways, here's my question: in the intro for the original freespace, isn't the cockpit for the herc supposed to be for two people? because there's the guy who's freaking out, and isn't his copilot who's sitting behind him dead?
i'm going to fire up the intro video i've got and see if i can get a screenshot...
edit: ok, i can't, but anyways, my point is that the herc's cockpit is f-ing huge...
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It's an apollo, not an herc, in the FS1 intro ;)
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Originally posted by Terawatt_99
anyways, here's my question: in the intro for the original freespace, isn't the cockpit for the herc supposed to be for two people? because there's the guy who's freaking out, and isn't his copilot who's sitting behind him dead?
I'm assuming you mean apollo not herc.
The general concensus is that what we saw in the FS1 intro was a two-man bomber varient of the apollo (often called the apollyon).
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this seems a nice terran Dragon variant.
what era is it made for? the texes just scream SOC/GTVI to me, and it seems very specialist. If the B version could strap a single heavy warhead (Cyclops/Large EMP/Large Disruptor) this could be a good surgical it&run/it&die bomber. a C version could be stealth recon.
edit: give it a large, LS type thruster flare.
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I like it :yes: :yes:
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nice small ( isn't to small :doubt: ) ship. Should be some kind of cyvil one person transport or police ship:nod:
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oh yes, if you decide not to make it SOC special, you could indeed make it a private runabout/speed boat for the ultra rich thingy.
police vessel, well, perhaps, but I don't see any police forces using anything top-of-the-line, I'd expect some old appolo's and valkery's, perhaps a Uly or two.
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herc is about 20/25 meters long.
nice small zippy ship u made there.
Still think it should have room for some secondary payload.
at least dumbfires, EMP and oh well, think of something.
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So about how fast can this thing actually go?
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90/210 currently. Considering the whole point of the ship is to be fast, and it isn't good for much else, I think that's a fair speed. (Not to mention it wouldn't last long if other fighters could catch up, since it isn't especially menueverable.)
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whoa.
how does the AI handle that speed?
how big is her burner reserve?
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Okay, this is the new upgrade of the Epimetheus A, the Epimetheus B!
GTF Epimetheus B (http://fire.prohosting.com/aaeon/epiB.htm)
Click the link for screenshots.
The Epimetheus B improves on the A series by adding two (small) missile banks and modifying the gun mounts to support heavier cannons, namely the Prometheus. Because the missile banks are so small however, the type of missiles it can carry is restricted to missiles smaller than 2.5 units of cargo space. That basically means only Tempest, Harpoon, and TAG-A/B missiles are supported. Also, the missile banks make the ship slightly harder to menuever and slightly hampers its acceleration. But considering that one of these equipped with 6 harpoons can usually take down 6 Epimetheus A interceptors, I think the improvements outweight the disadvantages.
Oh, and if someone actually wanted to use these (Epi A and B), I suggest creating a new AI entry for them. Giving them high evasion rates lets the AI take advantage of the ships speed to avoid missiles.
(By the way, I fixed the tbl file for Epimetheus A, since it was goofed before.)
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Epimetheus interceptors have small afterburner and energy reserves. They empty quickly, and recharge quickly. Its hard to keep up a constant speed of 210, since the afterburners don't last very long and they've usually run out before you realize you're at top speed.
And as far as I can tell from Epimetheus VS Epimetheus dogfights, the AI likes going fast. If you're trying to tail one and shoot it down, they'll usually speed ahead, and they can get out of range before you know it. These ships have trouble in closeup situations, especially against something like an Erinyes with Kaysers. Epimetheus' turn slowly, so other fighters can usually out-turn them and blow them away (2 shots from an Erinyes). If you're piloting one of these, its best to just stay out of range as often as possible.
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Originally posted by Arculis
The Epimetheus B improves on the A series by adding two (small) missile banks and modifying the gun mounts to support heavier cannons, namely the Prometheus. Because the missile banks are so small however, the type of missiles it can carry is restricted to missiles smaller than 2.5 units of cargo space. That basically means only Tempest, Harpoon, and TAG-A/B missiles are supported.
Finally the Tag A/B have a use :D
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Very nice creation, Arculis... IIRC that's the first ship created to be a small, light zipper. ;)
The only slight problem I see with it would be its inability to mount Stiletto-mkIIs - that would make it an even better bomb-hound, not to mention that it'd make it a very fun thing to take out subsystems with (a fighter that could actually make it through the beam cannons because of the speed).
Though, TAG missiles are a good idea, now all we need is a mission with enough beam cannons to smoke a Ravana :D
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Stiletto II missiles are just a bit too large for this ship.
Someone suggested an Epimetheus C that was designed to support larger warheads. I've been fiddling with the idea in my head ever since, but have yet to come up with any nice designs as a result.
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Originally posted by kasperl
whoa.
how does the AI handle that speed?
They're good at it. The AI performs flawlessly in Starforce's Talon fighters, which are capable of 120/200 and Khepri interceptors, which do 140/220. Even my test Zica fighter (using the Serapis model as a placeholder), handles superbly despite its blazing speed of 160/310.
As far as the ship itself, um, it looks a bit too much like a Star Trek shuttle.
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Originally posted by Woolie Wool
As far as the ship itself, um, it looks a bit too much like a Star Trek shuttle.
Fact is everything "looks like" something. Missiles look like trees. A lot of ships resemble fighter jets. And I really don't care if my ship kinda looks like something else.
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agreed, things do look like eachother, but otherwise we'd all be fighting in the most odd shaped things ever.
now, do you have any updates?
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Originally posted by Arculis
Fact is everything "looks like" something. Missiles look like trees. A lot of ships resemble fighter jets. And I really don't care if my ship kinda looks like something else.
The problem is, that "something else" is a rather unattractive and dumpy little vessel. The Epimetheus uses a much better interpretation of that basic look, but still. You should make it a wedge shape like the Dragon.
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Originally posted by Arculis
According to all the sources/measurements I can find, the Herc is between 20 and 21.5 meters. But I'd rather see some numbers on the little man, since the size of the herc is not whats up for debate.
(As a side note, the pilot of the Epimetheus is expected to actually sit down.)
I know this is old, but I'm going to comment on the obviousness of the way that shot was taken. The dimensions of the "little man" (I'm going to diverge from the norm here and call him Bob) are listed in the parameters box in the bottom left of the screen. Bob is actually a bit too tall, not too short, as he is sort of crouched and yet still is 1.931 meters in height. Sit him in a seat and he'd fit perfectly, if not be a little too small. Bob's a bit over average height for today, though I'd imagine a space-faring race would tend to get taller and taller over time to a point. As for the size of the Herc, if its sizes match up to those in Modview then they match the actual ones in game. The "official" sources are not accurate, the best way to check is to actually look at the model.
What's missing from this model is the space for the reactor that powers the ship and weapons, the life support systems that the pilot is expected to live off of, and the equipment that every strike craft really should be equipped with (radar, comms, navigation, and other sensors, not to mention the SS drive). It looks more like an ejection seat than a whole fighter.
EDIT: and as to the sitting thing, what exactly is he expected to be sitting on? There should be a little space between the floor of the cockpit and the external hull, as there is on any modern fighter.
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Originally posted by Arculis
Stiletto II missiles are just a bit too large for this ship.
Someone suggested an Epimetheus C that was designed to support larger warheads. I've been fiddling with the idea in my head ever since, but have yet to come up with any nice designs as a result.
perhaps with the top a bit raised (like them volkswagen campers ;) rooftop launchers, scoobeedoobeedooooo!
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Idea: always break the Subspace drive on this thing, and only allow it to enter/exit fighterbays or specially designed "interceptor collars" existing of nothing but a big ring of dockpoints and a Subspace drive.
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See updated size comparisons pic. (http://fire.prohosting.com/aaeon/epiA.htm)
Pilot fits comfortably into a 4.7 meter Subaru Outback, along with 3 other passangers, plenty of cargo space, engine, CD-player, etc... I see no reason why a pilot who can fit comfortably into a Subaru Outback shouldn't be able to fit into a much larger Epimetheus.
And unless you can get me some figures on the size requirements for reactors, life suport systems, radar, comms, navigation and sensors, we'll just assume that it fits in there somewhere.
As for subspace drives, I'm fine with the ship not having any. Its designed for capital ship defense rolls, so it would be perfectly reasonable for them to be reliant on the capital ships they're defending.
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meh, I still like mine better; call me biased :p
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Originally posted by LtNarol
meh, I still like mine better; call me biased :p
Be careful what you ask for. :p :drevil:
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:D