Hard Light Productions Forums
Off-Topic Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: karajorma on April 05, 2004, 09:48:46 am
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http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/6/36804.html
What's next? Jailing suicidal people for attempted murder? :rolleyes:
There must have been someone else involved cause otherwise this is definately one of the most stupid things I've heard this week :)
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Well, to be fair, you wouldn;t exactly want to encourage it, would you?
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no, but jailing her for posting her own nude self on the web?
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I wouldn't but I think having a chat with her parents is more the way to go on this one.
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Well, methinks this part
The unnamed teenager is accused of sending photos of herself "in various states of undress and performing a variety of sexual acts" to people she met in online chat rooms, AP reports.
was the main one..... I think it's hard to say... i mean, there's definately a substantial arse-kicking deserved here anyways. Jail...it's hard to say. On the one hand, if she was an adult forcing a 15-year old into it, then there'd be no doubt. On the other hand, it was consentual (as far as I can tell from the report)..... I think the reason for the heavy handed treatment is because it could encourage others to do similar stuff. And the last thing we nade is under age porn, consensual or not.
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I'd be jailed if I posted naked pictures of myself on the net.
My nakedness is considered an atrocity by both the UN and the Axis of Terror.
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Originally posted by an0n
I'd be jailed if I posted naked pictures of myself on the net.
My nakedness is considered an atrocity by both the UN and the Axis of Terror.
Well, yeah - but you're existence was outlawed under Resolution 667 anyways.
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Your body; do what you want with it. It would make sense to punish those who she was sending the pics to, but then again it was consentual....
I don't see the logic in punishing her though. Crazy Yanks....
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So, their charging a child with childpornography? :wtf:
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Originally posted by karajorma
http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/6/36804.html
What's next? Jailing suicidal people for attempted murder? :rolleyes:
There must have been someone else involved cause otherwise this is definately one of the most stupid things I've heard this week :)
People are losing their rights very quickly it seems. Even though its illegal for a minor to show her nude body, how can you punish her for doing it?
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Originally posted by Tiara
So, their charging a child with childpornography? :wtf:
sounds alot like old british law...
they used to hang people for attempted suicide.
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Originally posted by aldo_14
Well, yeah - but you're existence was outlawed under Resolution 667 anyways.
The final ultimatum to Iraq before the First Gulf War?
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I suppose it's rather hard to prevent child pronography when children are allowed to post images of themselves in compromising positions on the net when they aren't yet old enough to understand the dangers of what they're doing.
While of course child porn fans are disgusting and shouldn't be allowed to do what they do - you can also help to attack that angle by preventing children from doing something so stupid as what she did. Do you let your daughter wander the streets topless when she's 15? No? Then I doubt you'd be to happy about her freely posting images of herself on the net either.
I'm not saying that charging her with child pornography is right. But she does need to understand the risk she's taking.
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Originally posted by Turnsky
sounds alot like old british law...
they used to hang people for attempted suicide.
Ahaha. The good people (Read: Cock-smoking morons) of Hartlepool hung a monkey during WW2 because they thought it was a Nazi spy.
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Most laws on child pornography are written with the intent of stopping the production of child pornography. Consent is not even an issue--assuming that her consent as a 15yo is even considered legal in her state. One cannot consent to the commission of a crime. If the act is prima-fascia illegal, consent cannot be used as a defense.
Suicide, likewise, is attempted murder and can, in most states, be charged as such.
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Originally posted by mikhael
Suicide, likewise, is attempted murder and can, in most states, be charged as such.
Well, at least where I live I get to decide over my own life :rolleyes:
Besides, 'attempted suicide' isn't an attempt at all. It's a cry for help. How can you not die from jumping off twelve floors up onto a nice concrete sidewalk? If you really wanna die you don't fail.
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How disturbing. You don't even have control over your own life anymore. Thats the ultimate control that is taken away, worse than all your civil liberties combined. Whats next, thoughtcrime?
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Why is it that people are against the monitoring of thoughts?
It's just taking the fight against crime from the past tense to the future tense.
And if you know someone is reading your thoughts going "Hmmm. Bit of a wierdo, aintcha?" how likely are you to act upon such thoughts.
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Originally posted by Rictor
How disturbing. You don't even have control over your own life anymore. Thats the ultimate control that is taken away, worse than all your civil liberties combined.
This needs to be taken in context though, Consider that 50 years ago there was no internet. A man doesn't have to worry about his daughter posting pictures of herself in compromising positions at 15 - his worst worries are probably that she gets home by midnight.
Now people like you and me have access to these images, how to create and cultivate drugs, how to constract explosives or pick a lock.. or goodness knows what other information that - if we wanted it - would have been really hard to find before. People like you or me wouldn't have to worry about copying a cassette tape from a friends stereo and playing it back 10 years ago - now if we do it with an MP3 we could face a substantial fine or prison sentence... and all this can be done so easily that a 10 year old with basic computer training and the ability to read can get himself involved in it.
Governments haven't had time to properly consider laws to cope with these events as they unfold - it seems this really is the cutting edge of society.
Again I don't mean to say she deserved this prosecution - but the anonymity the internet affords is a boon and a curse - my parents don't know what I do with this machine, and for all you guys know I'm not a boy but a 45 year old divorced woman living in Utah. Do you see what I mean? The amount of damage an innocent person could do to themselves without knowing it here is massive. The girl probably thought it was fun, maybe a slight turn on at the age of 15. The potential 50 something men in the dirty macs would think otherwise.
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Well, I was reffering to the suicide laws, but I get what you're saying. I never said I was against certain laws to curb criminal acts over the Internet, its just that, well, 15 years old is not *that* young. If she were 10 or 12, it would be a different matter, but 15 is a grey area. I mean, if you're old enough to have sex, and at 15 you are, then surely you are old enough to decide to post your naked self on the Net.
In either case, I still don't see how she can be charged. As someone mentioned, at worst this should be a "have a talk with the parents" issue. Now, the people who were looking at the pictures, thats a different matter.
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What the internet needs is some piss-poor country to hijack a backbone and go vigilanty on all the illegal, immoral and free-hosted sites.
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Mmm, thats the problem - the internet is spread all over ****. Nobody can really claim to police it with any recognised authority.
Rictor: Point taken about the suicide thing, if someone wants to kill themselves then they should be allowed to do so as long as it harms nobody else in a physical manner.
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If someone wants to kill themselves they should be provided with a gun and a Darwin Award.
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Personally, if I were keen on ending my life, at least I would try to get some money while doing it, to give to my family or a charity or something.
Robbing a bank, auctioning off the right to kill me, that sort of thing.
Oooh, that just gave me a great idea for a new reality show. Texas Execution. You get a bunch of guys from death row, the last "survivor" is set free, everyone else gets fried. We'll be years ahead of the curb, and by the time that sort of thing becomes popular; we'll already be an established name.
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Originally posted by an0n
Ahaha. The good people (Read: Cock-smoking morons) of Hartlepool hung a monkey during WW2 because they thought it was a Nazi spy.
There are lots of old rediculous English laws that where never changed. eg, this one daates back to when England was at war with Scotland. It is legal to kill a Scottish person in York on a Sunday. I don't know if they finally got round to getting rid of that law because I learnt that a year ago. Oh and so I don't get slagged off for rascism, my gran is Scottish.
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No, you misunderstand. They didn't do it because it was legal or as some sort of novelty. They thought the monkey had been trained to steal national secrets, so they took it out into the center of town and hung it for treason or some ****.
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LOL Don't worry, so's my wife :D
As for this Child posting pictures of herself, it's a tough one really, but they've done precisely the wrong thing, they've taken someone who was just a little too eager for attention, and who wanted to feel desired as most teenagers do, and have set her onto the road to becoming either a drop-out a crack-ho or a career criminal, since these are the only professions likely to be available to her with a Child pornorgraphy conviction hanging over her head.
Way to destroy a life!
Edit : I heard of that one too Anon, because it was mimicing the Radio operator or something LOL
Other things that are punishable by Death in the UK :-
1) Defacing the Queen's head on a coin. Despite the wonderful job Time has done to the real thing.
2) Driving pigs across London Bridge. It has been rumoured this led to the development of the Metropolitan Police Helicopter ;)
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Can you still be executed for impersonating an Egyptian?
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If I didn't know better I'd say she's skint or something like that. But if some peverted idiot found those pictures... But 'child pornography' doesn't look good on the job application does it?
Oh, Flipside, might I ask what tarten is your wife entitled to wear? My father's entitled to Gorden and Robertson. I'm just curious that's all.
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Originally posted by an0n
No, you misunderstand. They didn't do it because it was legal or as some sort of novelty. They thought the monkey had been trained to steal national secrets, so they took it out into the center of town and hung it for treason or some ****.
'twas during the Napoleonic wars
http://www.thisishartlepool.co.uk/history/thehartlepoolmonkey.asp
Oh - BTW - I'm of the McGregor clan, myself.
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Ok, back on the original topic, you guys really should learn to distinguish between being accused of something like this and actually being convicted. The former technically doesn't do any long-term damage to reputation. Will this girl, a minor with charges of distributing her own pictures as a form of child pornography, really get convicted by a jury? Will the state even end up asking for a full conviction? Probably not. Technically even her identity is not revealed outside of the courtroom because she is a minor. This isn't a kid who's gone on a shooting rampage who is being tried as an adult, and she's not likely to get much more then restrictions from using a computer for a while as far as punishment is concerned. And talking to the parents, sad as it is to say, is not the solution it once was; they may not give a damn.
As to the age of consent, the US has much more arbitrary and stupid age restrictions than this.
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Ferret, she's not actually sure, she had a somewhat unusual upbringing even for a Glasweigan, and both her parents were dead before they could really teach her about her family. Next time we are in Glasgow, I'll see if I can find out anything from her rellies :)
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Originally posted by Flipside
had a somewhat unusual upbringing even for a Glasweigan
And what, may i ask, is that supposed to mean?
:D :p
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I've heard there's a company in Edinburgh that has a tartan for every surname in Britain, not just the Scots ones.
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Originally posted by Petrarch of the VBB
I've heard there's a company in Edinburgh that has a tartan for every surname in Britain, not just the Scots ones.
Yeah, they have tartans for football clubs and all that (I have Rangers tartan wallpaper & stuff, fact fans)... but it's all a bit pointless, really. Like those daft ****ing leather kilts - what's the point of those?
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So you can have a tartan sporran and look like a negative?
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Aldo, her words, not mine ;)
Flipside :)
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Originally posted by StratComm
Ok, back on the original topic, you guys really should learn to distinguish between being accused of something like this and actually being convicted. The former technically doesn't do any long-term damage to reputation. Will this girl, a minor with charges of distributing her own pictures as a form of child pornography, really get convicted by a jury? Will the state even end up asking for a full conviction? Probably not. Technically even her identity is not revealed outside of the courtroom because she is a minor. This isn't a kid who's gone on a shooting rampage who is being tried as an adult, and she's not likely to get much more then restrictions from using a computer for a while as far as punishment is concerned. And talking to the parents, sad as it is to say, is not the solution it once was; they may not give a damn.
As to the age of consent, the US has much more arbitrary and stupid age restrictions than this.
I agree with you that they'll have to struggle to find a jury who would be willing to convict someone in a case like this but doesn't that mean it was even more ridiculous to bring the case in the first place?
This just reminds me of Chris Morris locking up his kids in a file Cabinet on Brass Eye to keep them safe from paedophiles.
Originally posted by Petrarch of the VBB
I've heard there's a company in Edinburgh that has a tartan for every surname in Britain, not just the Scots ones.
I doubt that. :) Maybe every olde english and welsh surname but I think they'd have a problem with mine since it's Iranian :D
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Well I won't be trusting you with my semtex from now on
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You know one thing thou...I'm surprised nothing's happened to the parents yet. Being of late you hear so much on the news about charging parents for crimes a child/teen commits. Course I wouldn't be surprised to see them suddenly toss age limits on Web-Cams after a few more years. (Course chances are her father's already tossed her's out the door :lol: )
Also,...IIRC even IF she's convicted,..being below the age of 18 I think her record's sealed once she turns 18 and she's concidered having never had a record. (Although I'm not sure if that covers all parts of a Jouvy's Criminal Record or only lesser offenses,...or if they even still do this for that matter. )
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She needs a hiding from her father and a severe curb on her social life - i.e. none, and her pc ripped out the room. Beyond that, it's her parent's right to discipline her not the courts.
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Oh, I could really rattle some cages with this subject. But I won't.
General consensus is right. I'm dissapointed the press decided to draw so much attention to this. It won't take long for her real name (and address) to be known. I dread the consequences of that.
Kinda feel sorry for her in a way. Public humiliation and a serious thrashing (or fixing, whatever) from her folks is more than sufficient.