Hard Light Productions Forums

Off-Topic Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: Grey Wolf on April 05, 2004, 04:57:39 pm

Title: Next-Gen Graphics Cards
Post by: Grey Wolf on April 05, 2004, 04:57:39 pm: Appears that the NV40 may well be an actual increase over the current generation (both NV35 and R360). The Inquirer (http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=15169) reported that nVidia released that they got about 12500 in 3DMark03, beating the current record of 10008, which was achieved with rather extreme cooling on a P4 using a 9800XT. Of course, we have no clue what CPU was used, what memory, or how far overclocked the GPU was, but it still seems rather impressive.
Title: Next-Gen Graphics Cards
Post by: SadisticSid on April 05, 2004, 05:07:40 pm: If they can make a better card (performance, featureset, stability)than ATI for the same cash then I'll buy nVidia. Sod brand loyalty, I will want what's best.

But of course, I am quite content to wait until both manufacturers have their new models out until I make any decisions. Hopefully this card war will drive down prices for us salivating consumers.
Title: Next-Gen Graphics Cards
Post by: Grey Wolf on April 05, 2004, 05:09:09 pm: If nothing else, last-gen (9800) should drop significantly.
Title: Next-Gen Graphics Cards
Post by: ChronoReverse on April 05, 2004, 05:11:51 pm: Luckily for us, ATi will be releasing at the same time nVidia does. So by the end of the month, we'll know which cards are better.
Title: Next-Gen Graphics Cards
Post by: Kazan on April 05, 2004, 05:27:44 pm: nVidia probably LN2 cooled a P4 clocked to 4Ghz and water cooled their GPU overclocked extremely

would make a great publicity stunt
Title: Next-Gen Graphics Cards
Post by: Grey Wolf on April 05, 2004, 05:29:26 pm: You realize the cooling on the 10k score with the 9800XT was just what you described? Not many ways to get a P4 clocked to 4.5GHz at -85C, short of liquid nitrogen or rather incredibly phase-change cooling.
Title: Next-Gen Graphics Cards
Post by: ChronoReverse on April 05, 2004, 05:30:27 pm: *sigh

Can you keep your fanboyism out of it?

Both ATi and nVidia are capable of releasing great video cards as well as relatively poor ones.

Both have had driver sets that were excellent and both have had done some stupid cheats with their drivers.

Whoever has the better next generation card will have the better next generation card. Video card politics should be left out of this.

P.S. ATi's 9800Pro (overclocked on an overclocked system) was the first to break the 10k mark for 3dMark2003.
Title: Next-Gen Graphics Cards
Post by: Grey Wolf on April 05, 2004, 05:32:23 pm: I rather don't care whose card is in my computer. The only computer company I'm really a fanboy of is AMD. The main relevance of this to me is that I'll probably end up with the second rev. of one of the new cards when I build my computer next summer, considering the large amount of time between entirely new GPUs.

EDIT: On a side note, they're apparently dropping the concept of having a number between "GeForce" and the model number. The NV40 will be the GeForce 6800 and GeForce 6800 Ultra.
Title: Next-Gen Graphics Cards
Post by: aldo_14 on April 05, 2004, 05:37:08 pm: 's interesting. Betcha it'll cost a int, of course. (er, when released. obviously).
Title: Next-Gen Graphics Cards
Post by: Grey Wolf on April 05, 2004, 05:38:01 pm: Probably. I'm betting 300-400 USD for the 6800, and 400-500 for the 6800 Ultra.
Title: Next-Gen Graphics Cards
Post by: an0n on April 05, 2004, 05:40:24 pm: Remind me again why I should shell out like £300 for a new gfx card when they'll announce a similar 'leap' forward a year from now that'll make everything else obsolete?

This is what I ****ing hate about the computer industry. They'll whore out a million different products, then the second you shell out for some top of the range product, there'll be some new breakthrough that'll rape whatever you bought and kill the price by 90%.
Title: Next-Gen Graphics Cards
Post by: Grey Wolf on April 05, 2004, 05:43:12 pm: Because you want a computer now? Realistically, it's always better to go for the upper end of the last-gen or the performance mainstream versions of the current-gen. Far cheaper, and last about as long as the bleeding edge designs.
Title: Next-Gen Graphics Cards
Post by: Dark_4ce on April 05, 2004, 05:45:48 pm: I hear ya. The reason why I wait 2-3 years between each major leap in gaming technology "that will change the face of gaming FOREVER!" I mean hell. The GF3 was supposed to be the übercard to run doom3. The 9800 was supposed to be the übercard to run Half Life2. Now neither will be uber. Meh.
Title: Next-Gen Graphics Cards
Post by: Kazan on April 05, 2004, 05:46:39 pm: I wasn't saying that record was set without the cooling i mentioned - i was saying this new record was set in the same manner

In other words - you're not going to get that performance out of ANY video card in your home computer
Title: Next-Gen Graphics Cards
Post by: an0n on April 05, 2004, 05:48:08 pm: True enough, I suppose.

My TNT2 did me till about a month before Halo came out on the PC.

Still, when you're poor, shelling out hundreds of dollars for new components, even if it's only on a 2-year cycle, is a ****ing pain in the ass.

*goes to install some ****ty auction software on some choice domains so he can hock 'em on eBay for $600 a pop*
Title: Next-Gen Graphics Cards
Post by: Grey Wolf on April 05, 2004, 05:48:26 pm: Of course not. But assuming the setups were similar and that they didn't cheat with drivers (it's always a possibility), that means 2 things:
1. The card has about a 25% performance increase over the current generation.
2. nVidia is releasing their first competent design since GF4.
Title: Next-Gen Graphics Cards
Post by: aldo_14 on April 05, 2004, 05:49:16 pm: Well, we shall see, won;t we :)
Title: Next-Gen Graphics Cards
Post by: Kazan on April 05, 2004, 05:52:12 pm: I put my money on them cheating
Title: Next-Gen Graphics Cards
Post by: Liberator on April 05, 2004, 06:16:14 pm: Kaz, you are so cynical.

I for one, am looking forward to it, I will still buy a 5700 or something similar when I finally scrape enough moolah together.
Title: Next-Gen Graphics Cards
Post by: Kazan on April 05, 2004, 08:19:33 pm: Liberator: cynicism is the opposite of guillability
Title: Next-Gen Graphics Cards
Post by: Liberator on April 05, 2004, 09:18:22 pm: Kaz, your hatred of MS and Nvidia stems from their market status, they are on top of the heap. You don't like them simply for that reason. Their products are not of the quality you would like, so you whine and *****. Nobody, not even you is perfect Kazan, GET USED TO IT.

BTW:

You are cynical (http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?book=Dictionary&va=cynical), therefore you are a cynic (http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?book=Dictionary&va=cynic).
Title: Next-Gen Graphics Cards
Post by: Kazan on April 05, 2004, 09:30:04 pm: nVidia is not on the top of the heap FYI

and my gripe with microsoft is because they're ABUSING their position

You even contradict yourself in your post "Your problem with them is they're on top!" [Immature] then you say "Your problem with them is their products are of insufficient quality" [mature]

The correct one is the second one - I dislike them because their products are inferior in terms of quality. Stating that their products are of inferior quality and citing them for bad behavior is not "whining and *****ing" either. Nor do I expect them to be perfect, nor think I am.

Grow up before posting again
Title: Next-Gen Graphics Cards
Post by: Bobboau on April 05, 2004, 09:51:05 pm: Kaz used to be an intell whore, he would rant and rave about AMDs imperfict x86 emmulation, now he loves AMD, he isn't a fanboy, if Nvidia manage to make a card better than ATI I'm sure he'll admit and proclaim it.
Title: Next-Gen Graphics Cards
Post by: Kazan on April 05, 2004, 09:54:01 pm: thank you bobboau

i think you could even find on this forum if you search back far enough me dissing AMD because at the time they sucked - they cleaned up their chips outdid intel and I switched camps
Title: Next-Gen Graphics Cards
Post by: Grey Wolf on April 06, 2004, 05:42:57 pm: That, and Intel stopped caring about performance, instead caring about public relations. "Look, we have higher numbers than them! That makes us better!"
No other reason for the extremely long pipeline of Prescott, and the horrible IPC.

But anyway, any other opinions on the cards, as opposed to flaming the opposing party's judgement? Realistically, even if it is massively overclocked and using drivers with cheats built in, it still means that they finally managed to at least partially fix their shader problems (namely, that using PS2.0, the NV30/35 generation performed rather horribly).
Title: Next-Gen Graphics Cards
Post by: ChronoReverse on April 06, 2004, 07:29:41 pm: Interestingly enough, the R420 won't have PS3.0. Apparently, ATi decided to put that into their next product (despite the fact that PS3.0 and PS2.0 are close enough that if you're able to run PS2.0 fast, PS3.0 should be fast too).

It's too bad since PS3.0 is supposed to be easier to optimize for. That and it's in Directx 9.0c (when that comes out) so that it's not going to be forever before you see it (i.e. Directx Next).

Strangely enough, ATi has the technology since the R500 (Xbox2's chip) has it.
Title: Next-Gen Graphics Cards
Post by: Grey Wolf on April 06, 2004, 07:31:18 pm: Apparently, the original R400 has PS3.0, but it had scaling problems. Loki (R420) is really a temp chip until the R500 is fully ready for the market.