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Modding, Mission Design, and Coding => FS2 Open Coding - The Source Code Project (SCP) => Topic started by: Singh on April 08, 2004, 04:40:01 pm

Title: severe problem with ships jumping out
Post by: Singh on April 08, 2004, 04:40:01 pm
Im currently facing a severe bug when it comes to ships jumping out. When (for example) a sathanas jumps out - rather than jumping out, the subspace portal opens in front of it and then disappears, leaving it stuck there doing........NOTHING!! It too disappears a few minutes later.

Also, when the player jumps out we dont see the ship jumping out anymore (this might be because I put ai-as-player, but not too sure about that).

Is there any solutino to this? It came up with both Bob's 280304 build and both of Taylor's new builds. Ive spent all night trying to develop a cutscene, but it always gets spoilt because of this little #$@$%()^@^_@#$^ thing.
Title: severe problem with ships jumping out
Post by: StratComm on April 08, 2004, 04:54:50 pm
Just to make sure, the Sathanas isn't disabled, is it?  What you've described goes back to vanilla FS2 when a ship tries to jump disabled I think.  Does the same thing happen with other ships?
Title: severe problem with ships jumping out
Post by: WMCoolmon on April 08, 2004, 04:55:03 pm
This happened once when I disabled a ship in the original FS that was scripted to jump out. It later just disappeared.
Title: severe problem with ships jumping out
Post by: Singh on April 08, 2004, 05:19:44 pm
no...it couldnt have been disabled.......unless....
*slaps head*
Wait. No, it wasnt disabled. It still wont jump out either. All other ships can jump out strangely........
Let me do a recheck.
Title: severe problem with ships jumping out
Post by: Kazan on April 08, 2004, 05:32:18 pm
i've heard complains about this with the 4-05-04 build as well
Title: severe problem with ships jumping out
Post by: StratComm on April 08, 2004, 05:37:48 pm
Could it somehow have to do with the fact that the sath has something like 6 seperate engine subsystems?  It's got more than the colossus I think, although that ship has some strange subsystem characteristics as well.
Title: severe problem with ships jumping out
Post by: Hippo on April 08, 2004, 05:42:02 pm
I was about to start a thread about this... I have two similar bugs:

Ships being visible before they arrive:
(http://swooh.com/peon/hippo/wbug1.jpg)

And also, whenever the player departs, the ship doesn't disappear, only the engine glows do...
(http://swooh.com/peon/hippo/wbug2.jpg)

This has only happened since I installed the core pack in the media VP... Its taylor's memory build, though it doesn't appear to be centered on it...
Title: severe problem with ships jumping out
Post by: jdjtcagle on April 08, 2004, 05:43:57 pm
Could my missions done this??
Since they were in the core pack
Title: severe problem with ships jumping out
Post by: Hippo on April 08, 2004, 05:45:31 pm
no, they occur in my missions too...
Title: severe problem with ships jumping out
Post by: StratComm on April 08, 2004, 06:43:55 pm
Hippo, I can vouch for your error, but it's a little bit more specific than that.  With glow and spec turned off, everything works perfectly.  With it on, the departing ship bug comes up.  I also just got CTD'd so that's all I can see, but there does appear to be something wrong.  It happened with Bob's 3-28-04 build, so it's a persistant little problem.
Title: severe problem with ships jumping out
Post by: Singh on April 08, 2004, 06:44:04 pm
ok. the same problem i mentioned above happens with the colossus in the place of the sathanas as well. this is just TOO odd. one thing to note - the vessel was under a lot of fire at the time, so does this play a factor?
Title: severe problem with ships jumping out
Post by: StratComm on April 08, 2004, 06:46:02 pm
The colossus also has 6 engine subsystems IIRC, so that may still be an issue.  Try it with a Hecate.
Title: severe problem with ships jumping out
Post by: Bobboau on April 08, 2004, 06:47:30 pm
maybe we should have a little warning for people useing cards that don't suport the clipping plane.
wich s what those pictures are of, that's a bug that will not be fixed before 3.6
Title: severe problem with ships jumping out
Post by: Kazan on April 08, 2004, 06:48:19 pm
how old does a card have to be not to support a clipping plane
Title: severe problem with ships jumping out
Post by: Singh on April 08, 2004, 06:51:54 pm
why not? I mean, if its such a horrendous looking bug, shouldnt it be done first? :/
Title: severe problem with ships jumping out
Post by: Taristin on April 08, 2004, 06:52:25 pm
GeForce 2, andI get that problem... so maybe old?
Title: severe problem with ships jumping out
Post by: Sticks on April 08, 2004, 06:55:48 pm
It's a hardware driver level issue and not in the least easy to solve. Most cards support clip planes, but my guess is that those pics were taken on an MX or GF2- card of some kind, which for an inexplicable reason, does not expose the clip planes to the DX API (even though they technically support them in hardware).

Edit: That was in reference to the second bug brought up, not the original post. I don't know anything about that bug.
Title: severe problem with ships jumping out
Post by: Kazan on April 08, 2004, 06:57:55 pm
we cannot be responsible for other people's bugs
Title: severe problem with ships jumping out
Post by: Singh on April 08, 2004, 06:59:53 pm
ok. the second bug one i can understand, but what about the first one? If it does work with a hecate, then why isnt it working with a colossus if just one subsystem is down? And how can we actually prevent such a thing from happening in FRED?
Title: severe problem with ships jumping out
Post by: Singh on April 08, 2004, 07:31:55 pm
nope. i just checked this. it doesnt work with a hecate either - nor does it work with my hades anymore either. Anything destroyer size and above refuses to jump out properly :(
Title: severe problem with ships jumping out
Post by: StratComm on April 08, 2004, 07:47:03 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Bobboau
maybe we should have a little warning for people useing cards that don't suport the clipping plane.
wich s what those pictures are of, that's a bug that will not be fixed before 3.6


But why does it work when glow and spec are off?  I'd think that if it wasn't going to work, it would simply not work irrespective of features that should have no bearing on clipping planes.  And Raa, your card doesn't support them properly, as you've got the same one as me.  But this had been working and isn't now, which is a bit odd in my book.

And Singh, if the Hades doesn't work then my theory is dead in the water.  Is this a mission-specific thing or something that happens in any test mission you throw together?
Title: severe problem with ships jumping out
Post by: Bobboau on April 08, 2004, 11:30:13 pm
ehhm buh, what the hell are you talking about, it has nothing to do with glow mapping and everything to do with there not being a clipping plane available, this is a htl bug, HTL is run by defalt now, have you been running in HTL mode? (you should have been)
I'm not saying we're not going to fix this, I'm just saying not before 3.6, we have an idea about how to work arround it, we just want to get 3.6 out first.
Title: severe problem with ships jumping out
Post by: StratComm on April 08, 2004, 11:46:36 pm
Of course I've been running in HT&L, and I've known that there isn't a clipping plane available for quite some time now.  I was suprised when my fighter did actually dissapear, not that it didn't, as I am fully aware of what my GPU is and is not capable of doing with the SCP.  The problem is that it isn't consistant within those limitations, and since I plan to upgrade relatively soon I'm not exactly worried about it.  However, if this has something to do with a legit bug that has been recently introduced, you need to know about it in order to be able to fix it.  So here's the problem: with the build from the latest version of everything thread, my ship dissapeared entered subspace with the following command line:
-jpgtga -fps

and did not dissapear correctly when using the command line:
-jpgtga -fps -spec -glow

Neither of those additional command lines should have anything remotely to do with the clipping plane, yet turning them on caused the error to appear where it had not existed without them.  As I said, I was more suprised that the first case worked than by the fact that the second case didn't function properly.  It doesn't have to be dealt with pre 3.6, nor am I asking for it to be, I'm just trying to document the problem as thuroughly as I possibly can.
Title: severe problem with ships jumping out
Post by: kasperl on April 09, 2004, 03:42:03 am
God, i wish i was wrong when i noted the glowmap thingy in Mantis.

These seem like 2 seperate bugs though, Singh's issue is with the whole ship, not just one or two texes.

Singh, try it with something with a fighter model but a caps tbl.
Title: severe problem with ships jumping out
Post by: Singh on April 09, 2004, 03:57:51 am
i dunno...something may be wrong with the mission - whenever i try to move the camera angles in FRED a bit using the keyboards, it freezes and i have to CRT:+ALT+DELETE to get it to quit.
Title: severe problem with ships jumping out
Post by: kasperl on April 09, 2004, 04:01:59 am
then please test it with a different mission.
Title: severe problem with ships jumping out
Post by: Hippo on April 09, 2004, 07:35:17 am
Quote
Originally posted by Kazan
how old does a card have to be not to support a clipping plane



Geforce 2...
Title: severe problem with ships jumping out
Post by: Sticks on April 09, 2004, 08:05:04 am
Hmm, are we enabling the clip plane in the second pass?

Can somebody test this with glows on but spec off and see what happens?
Title: severe problem with ships jumping out
Post by: StratComm on April 09, 2004, 01:01:27 pm
Tested, my fighter (and its glows; I flew a pegesus in the test to see if the glow pass was getting clipped... no such luck) still remains fully visable once passing through the subspace hole.  However, other ships exit normally.  I'm using Petrarch's recent mission as a testbed and it doesn't have any good oppertunities to witness a ship jumping in, so I don't know if the problem occurs there as well.

Hippo, is that bomber in your first error post missing its turret?

EDIT: In addition to the player ship not jumping out correctly, I also get a CTD after the jump-out but before the debrief.  I realize that this is somehow a card-related feature most likely, but that's one glitch that will prevent campaigns from being completable.
Title: severe problem with ships jumping out
Post by: mrduckman on April 09, 2004, 04:08:33 pm
Hmm. What I didn't do, besides not using the glowmaps, to fix this kind of problem was trying disabling HT&L. I'll try that when I get home.

Note for those who didn't read the bug in mantis, bugnote 157:
d3d clipping plane is not supported by my GPU either (Nvidia GeForce4 MX-440)
Title: severe problem with ships jumping out
Post by: Trivial Psychic on April 09, 2004, 06:42:11 pm
Ya, a friend of mine use to have a GF4MX and he had the clipping problem too.  Now he's got an ATI-R9600Pro and the problem is gone.  R9600XT, here I come!!!
Title: severe problem with ships jumping out
Post by: Singh on April 09, 2004, 06:45:51 pm
wahoo! I got to my uncle's system and hte clipping is gone - yup, technology is good!
The bug with the colossus was a thing with FRED - my mission was somehow screwed up. Anyways, ive gone ahead and am almost done with the cutscene! WOHOO!
Title: severe problem with ships jumping out
Post by: Singh on April 09, 2004, 09:56:37 pm
ummmmmm........sorry bout this, but I got another bug.

whenever i try running the game in D3D, i start getting an error initializing graphics with a blank dialogue box. After hitting ok, it says that I need to get fs2_open launcher to fix the problem,and asks if i want a new version or not. I downloaded the ver 4 just in case and ran it again, but to no avail.

The odd thing is, it works fine in OGL. This problem happened almost immediately after i unregistered some stuff from startup (via Msconfig). Ive put them back on, but the error persists.......
Title: severe problem with ships jumping out
Post by: WMCoolmon on April 09, 2004, 10:16:08 pm
Try updating your video card drivers. :)
Title: severe problem with ships jumping out
Post by: Singh on April 09, 2004, 10:19:58 pm
tis a driver problem? Never knew that....any idea where to get drivers for a Nvidia FX 5600 SE?

Edit: nm, got it to work. Thanks for the help! :D
Title: severe problem with ships jumping out
Post by: mrduckman on April 10, 2004, 02:19:14 am
Okay, I've played a little test with the following args:
C:\Games\FS2_Open\fs2_open_r-20040405.exe -spec -glow
-pcx32 -jpgtga -fps -stats -nohtl -dnoshowvid  -allslev
(Kazan's build)

I didn't have the problem jumping out.
Adding this to mantis now. And going to sleep now :P
Title: severe problem with ships jumping out
Post by: Hippo on April 10, 2004, 06:08:32 pm
It half goes against the code freeze, but it would be fixing bugs: can we get a 3d warp hole override command line, so as we don't have to open each mission and use the checkbox? something like: -no3dwarp ?
Title: severe problem with ships jumping out
Post by: Sticks on April 10, 2004, 06:33:05 pm
Quote
Originally posted by mrduckman
Okay, I've played a little test with the following args:
C:\Games\FS2_Open\fs2_open_r-20040405.exe -spec -glow
-pcx32 -jpgtga -fps -stats -nohtl -dnoshowvid  -allslev
(Kazan's build)

I didn't have the problem jumping out.
Adding this to mantis now. And going to sleep now :P


That's because the problem doesn't exist in non-htl mode.
Title: severe problem with ships jumping out
Post by: Sticks on April 10, 2004, 06:34:34 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Hippo
It half goes against the code freeze, but it would be fixing bugs: can we get a 3d warp hole override command line, so as we don't have to open each mission and use the checkbox? something like: -no3dwarp ?


What bug does this fix?
Title: severe problem with ships jumping out
Post by: Bobboau on April 10, 2004, 07:27:11 pm
if you don't want a 3d warp, delete the warp pof
Title: severe problem with ships jumping out
Post by: Singh on April 12, 2004, 08:54:31 pm
EDIt: oh never mind
Title: severe problem with ships jumping out
Post by: AqueousShadow on April 12, 2004, 10:53:30 pm
Well, I've been having the same problems as Hippo. Whenever my fighter jumps out, it goes straight through the portal and out its rear end without thruster glows...it's been quite annoying lately, especially because I see the same darned thing with the same damned Loki (been playing Homesick campaign)...oh, and I have the 3-28-04 build, haven't been able to upgrade cuz I'm not home.

Quote
Originally posted by Bobboau
ehhm buh, what the hell are you talking about, it has nothing to do with glow mapping and everything to do with there not being a clipping plane available, this is a htl bug, HTL is run by defalt now, have you been running in HTL mode? (you should have been)
I'm not saying we're not going to fix this, I'm just saying not before 3.6, we have an idea about how to work arround it, we just want to get 3.6 out first.


Question: FSO runs with HTL automatically, right? That's what you said? Well, I've been running with the -htl tag for quite some time now...and I believe I read somewhere that with the -htl tag on, it turns HTL off. Is this true? I need to confirm before I take it off. If that's the case, I'll be happy to go home and get a lot better framerates than I do, and be able to turn on ALL the tags. Thx
Title: severe problem with ships jumping out
Post by: mrduckman on April 12, 2004, 10:58:03 pm
-htl turns off HTL in FRED2.
-nohtl turns off HTL in FS2_Open.

Yeah, this confuses a lot.
Title: severe problem with ships jumping out
Post by: Singh on April 12, 2004, 11:05:47 pm
i DID that. still wont work.

Now I have a graphics init failiure, even AFTER updating my drivers. This happened immediately after i tried running OGL on Taylor's build, when it crashed. Now I cant even run in D3d8!
Title: severe problem with ships jumping out
Post by: Bobboau on April 12, 2004, 11:08:13 pm
use the launcher to make sure you are in dx8 mode
Title: severe problem with ships jumping out
Post by: Singh on April 12, 2004, 11:11:17 pm
uhhh, im not that stupid. I made sure i was in D3D8 before trying anything. OpenGL just hangs again and i get the init error in this.
Title: severe problem with ships jumping out
Post by: mrduckman on April 12, 2004, 11:18:00 pm
There should be an errorlog.txt in the root folder of the FS2_open.
Find the last dump and open a bugnote in mantis.

I wouldn't be concerned anyway, since taylor's build would be quite buggy and was using the linux tree.
Title: severe problem with ships jumping out
Post by: Singh on April 12, 2004, 11:23:49 pm
Its not just Taylor's build. It occurs with Bob's build and almost all other builds as well...let me go try Kazan's build.
Title: severe problem with ships jumping out
Post by: Singh on April 12, 2004, 11:32:05 pm
The exact error message I get is "Failed to get init mode AND GETCAPS FAILED" please contact randomtiger about this problem directly

Edit: nm, found the problem - my dll files ended up being corrupted by the new install, so i re-downloaded it.
Title: severe problem with ships jumping out
Post by: AqueousShadow on April 13, 2004, 01:14:23 pm
Quote
Originally posted by mrduckman
-htl turns off HTL in FRED2.
-nohtl turns off HTL in FS2_Open.

Yeah, this confuses a lot.


Ok...thx. One more thing...so FSO runs with HTL already right? Which means I'd have to take off the -htl flag? Well cuz, in the 3-28-04 build, there's a checkbox for -htl, but when I run, the first thing that happens is that I get a popup saying that the -htl flag is unrecognized. I'm not sure about this for the most up-to-date builds.

So...that would mean I have to take off the -htl flag and the game would run normally WITH HTL already on, right? :confused:

It's nice to see that my game runs fine at the moment, but if I didn't even have HTL on...that'd be uber nice...whatever, just help me :D
Title: severe problem with ships jumping out
Post by: kasperl on April 13, 2004, 01:30:09 pm
[scp][/scp]

and yeah, -htl got redundant after some build. no need to worry about it. it will always run in HT&L, only when you use -nohtl it will run in software.
Title: severe problem with ships jumping out
Post by: karajorma on April 13, 2004, 02:45:20 pm
Basically with builds before the middle of January you need the -htl tag to turn it on.

After that you need -nohtl to turn it off. :D