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Off-Topic Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: an0n on April 09, 2004, 05:28:53 pm

Title: I now love the Iraqi government
Post by: an0n on April 09, 2004, 05:28:53 pm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/3615189.stm

Bwuahaha: "Genocide".

That guy is my new hero.
Title: I now love the Iraqi government
Post by: Bobboau on April 09, 2004, 05:33:16 pm
yes, that from our 'puppet government'

you know this might explian why we did all the stupid things over the last two weeks, this sort of thing might give them a bit of legitimacy, so long as we don't pull them from power.
Title: I now love the Iraqi government
Post by: Rictor on April 09, 2004, 05:35:57 pm
Now who's the tin-hatted nutter Bobboau? Eh?

Nah, just kidding. I actually would not be surprised if it were true, though I would be pretty damn impressed at their cunning.
Title: I now love the Iraqi government
Post by: TopAce on April 09, 2004, 05:39:25 pm
I think the Genocide is not an expression here. 45 deads and more than 100 injureds are 'Brutality', or 'Massacre'
OK, Massacre sounds a bit strong, I admit.
Title: I now love the Iraqi government
Post by: Carl on April 09, 2004, 05:41:44 pm
woah! really? people are getting killed in a war? wow! i thought war was where we all go out and dance in the field and pick flowers!
Title: I now love the Iraqi government
Post by: Rictor on April 09, 2004, 05:44:50 pm
they're civilians. they're not supposed to die in war, and when they do it IS a big thing.
Title: I now love the Iraqi government
Post by: diamondgeezer on April 09, 2004, 05:47:20 pm
Er, the war's over Carl. They're suposed to be peace-keeping and **** now, rather than this 'offensive operation' thingy. In theory.

Has it really been a year? That was quick...
Title: I now love the Iraqi government
Post by: Rictor on April 09, 2004, 05:48:30 pm
Thats cause you're safe at home. I'm sure the people living in Bahgdad  felt every second of it.
Title: I now love the Iraqi government
Post by: vyper on April 09, 2004, 05:51:00 pm
He lives in a student flat I'd hardly call that safe.
Title: I now love the Iraqi government
Post by: Gank on April 09, 2004, 05:53:04 pm
Quote
Originally posted by TopAce
I think the Genocide is not an expression here. 45 deads and more than 100 injureds are 'Brutality', or 'Massacre'
OK, Massacre sounds a bit strong, I admit.


450 dead, learn to read.

Quote
Originally posted by Carl
woah! really? people are getting killed in a war? wow! i thought war was where we all go out and dance in the field and pick flowers!

The problem here is the war ended a year ago. Bombing towns in responce to the deaths of four cia age.. I mean civilian security guards and killing 450 people doesnt really go well with the idea of liberating people.

edit: in case anyone thinks I'm wearing a tin hat by thinking the cia would use a private firm to cover operations:
http://www.gwu.edu/%7Ensarchiv/news/20010430/northwoods.pdf
Title: I now love the Iraqi government
Post by: diamondgeezer on April 09, 2004, 05:53:59 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Rictor
Thats cause you're safe at home. I'm sure the people living in Bahgdad  felt every second of it.

Not my fault it got boring after the tank battles were over
Title: I now love the Iraqi government
Post by: aldo_14 on April 09, 2004, 05:58:11 pm
Quote
Originally posted by diamondgeezer

Not my fault it got boring after the tank battles were over


There were tank battles?  Bugger! and there was me watching cartoons.
Title: I now love the Iraqi government
Post by: Rictor on April 09, 2004, 06:03:51 pm
Quote
Originally posted by diamondgeezer

Not my fault it got boring after the tank battles were over


Oh yes, I'm sure they daily crave that excitement they had during the invasion. Oh how they long for the good old days, when all the action you could ever want was right outside your window, or travelling towards your house at 300mph. Damn those bastard troops, they ought to be doing more to entertain the Iraqis. Maybe a few urban shootouts, a tank battle here or there. Thats just being rude guests, not putting sufficient energy in to keeping your hosts amused.
Title: I now love the Iraqi government
Post by: Bobboau on April 09, 2004, 06:11:03 pm
I think he was makeing a sarcastic jab at the media sensationalism of it being presented as a form of entertainment
Title: I now love the Iraqi government
Post by: Gank on April 09, 2004, 06:12:32 pm
A tank that goes 300mph?
Title: I now love the Iraqi government
Post by: aldo_14 on April 09, 2004, 06:14:52 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Gank
A tank that goes 300mph?


Whee.
Title: I now love the Iraqi government
Post by: Bobboau on April 09, 2004, 06:15:01 pm
a tank _round_ that goes 300 mph
Title: I now love the Iraqi government
Post by: vyper on April 09, 2004, 06:15:22 pm
Could've been caught on speed camera.
Title: I now love the Iraqi government
Post by: Corsair on April 09, 2004, 06:22:24 pm
Genocide is a much overused term now. People just throw it around like nothing.

Hitler and the Holocaust was genocide. The Turks and the Armenians was genocide.

This is not genocide. Neither is the IDF in the West Bank and Gaza genocide. Certain people need to learn the difference.
Title: I now love the Iraqi government
Post by: Gank on April 09, 2004, 06:24:34 pm
A DU sabot tank round goes at about mach 4. 300mph is a little of the mark.
Title: I now love the Iraqi government
Post by: Bobboau on April 09, 2004, 06:26:14 pm
maybe he was talking about one of the fighter craft then?
Title: I now love the Iraqi government
Post by: an0n on April 09, 2004, 06:27:19 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Corsair
Genocide is a much overused term now. People just throw it around like nothing.

Hitler and the Holocaust was genocide. The Turks and the Armenians was genocide.

This is not genocide. Neither is the IDF in the West Bank and Gaza genocide. Certain people need to learn the difference.
Just wait till someone has the bright idea of committing xenocide.

Klendathu, anyone?
Title: I now love the Iraqi government
Post by: Rictor on April 09, 2004, 06:31:11 pm
Well, I wasn't being entirely serious with that remark , so you can imagine why I never bothered to look up the exact figure. I'm tempted to put in the sparrow quote from Monty Python, but as you can guess, I'm also too lazy to look that up.

Thats some zen **** right there.

:rolleyes: :rolleyes:
Title: I now love the Iraqi government
Post by: Corsair on April 09, 2004, 06:33:04 pm
Quote
Originally posted by an0n
Just wait till someone has the bright idea of committing xenocide.

Klendathu, anyone?
Ender's Game, anyone?
Title: I now love the Iraqi government
Post by: Gank on April 09, 2004, 06:57:20 pm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/3613217.stm
lol
Title: I now love the Iraqi government
Post by: diamondgeezer on April 09, 2004, 07:24:44 pm
Don't forget that it's fashionable to hate America. I don't put much value on the scientific value of that survey
Title: I now love the Iraqi government
Post by: an0n on April 09, 2004, 07:47:43 pm
I've always hated America.

The only good thing they ever did was nuke Japan.
Title: I now love the Iraqi government
Post by: vyper on April 09, 2004, 07:49:50 pm
Ye but they were off by a couple of thousand miles. They should've hit Berlin about a year or 2 earlier.
Title: I now love the Iraqi government
Post by: an0n on April 09, 2004, 08:06:06 pm
They couldn't have. The air-defences around Berlin were too good.

IIRC pretty much every attack got chopped to itty-bitty pieces.
Title: I now love the Iraqi government
Post by: vyper on April 09, 2004, 08:20:30 pm
Nah plenty of bombers got through, certainly close enough to successfully drop an a-bomb. Meh, what's done is done.
Title: I now love the Iraqi government
Post by: Tiara on April 09, 2004, 08:27:10 pm
It's not like they had a-bombs to spare. The bomber carrying the bomb was at too high a risk of being shot down :p
Title: I now love the Iraqi government
Post by: Kazan on April 09, 2004, 08:50:30 pm
Ender's game rulez!

Rictor: saying they're all civilians is patently dishonest and you know it.
Title: I now love the Iraqi government
Post by: StratComm on April 09, 2004, 10:23:24 pm
Quote
Originally posted by vyper
Nah plenty of bombers got through, certainly close enough to successfully drop an a-bomb. Meh, what's done is done.


Ya'll do know that "the bomb" wasn't ready for deployment until after Berlin fell, right?
Title: I now love the Iraqi government
Post by: Grey Wolf on April 10, 2004, 03:35:54 am
The funny thing is, if we had nuked Berlin, we probably wouln't have a space program as quickly as we did, as our rockets were developed by German engineers and scientists and based upon the V-2 rocket.
Title: I now love the Iraqi government
Post by: diamondgeezer on April 10, 2004, 04:02:24 am
And the bomb itself was based largely on lifted German tech. Looking back, it's no wonder the Merkins joined the fight :)
Title: I now love the Iraqi government
Post by: 01010 on April 10, 2004, 06:11:59 am
Quote
Originally posted by aldo_14


There were tank battles?  Bugger! and there was me watching cartoons.


Damn, beat me to it.
Title: I now love the Iraqi government
Post by: Flipside on April 10, 2004, 06:37:10 am
Quote
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/3613217.stm
lol


hehehehehe! Well, says it all really ;) And, considering 3 is a symptom of 1 & 2, it's nice to know that at least some people are on the ball :)
Title: I now love the Iraqi government
Post by: Stunaep on April 10, 2004, 06:58:05 am
Quote
Originally posted by Kazan


Rictor: saying they're all civilians is patently dishonest and you know it.


So there was military among them. What's your point?
Title: I now love the Iraqi government
Post by: Flipside on April 10, 2004, 07:04:52 am
Well, once again, I can say only this.... In any other point in history, had an occupying force, be it China, Britain, Russia, Germany etc, occupied Iraq and been faced with a situation such as Fallujah, they would have flattened the entire town, civilians and all, with either artillery or air-strike.

This doesn't justify what is happening there, but let's try to bear this in mind ;)
Title: I now love the Iraqi government
Post by: Kazan on April 10, 2004, 10:05:03 am
Stunaep: no there were insurgents ammoung them- paramilitaries

Flipside: nice to have a brit remind people to put things into perspective about us :D
Title: I now love the Iraqi government
Post by: Lonestar on April 10, 2004, 10:31:21 am
The great Power of the US is backfiring in their face. They use their massive might to crush tiny rebellions, and meanwhile make try to make everyone else out to be the bad guy.

This pacification is a genocide. Keep it up though, you cant stop now.

I really wish people would respect the Iraqi people and Government. They may have no laws or rights as of yet, but them being dictated how to live by the US is no different then being dictated by Saddam himself.

A tyrrant for a dictator? hmmm
Title: I now love the Iraqi government
Post by: Kazan on April 10, 2004, 10:43:53 am
Let me remind your frothing at the mouth fools what genocide means

Code: [Select]

gen·o·cide    ( P )  Pronunciation Key  (jn-sd)
n.

    The systematic and planned extermination of an entire national, racial, political, or ethnic group


So to commit genocide we'd effectively have to nuke every sunni or shi'te region there is - or we'd have to round them up nazi-fashion for death camps


KNOW YOUR TERMS BEFORE ACCUSING COUNTRIES AND THEIR SOLDIERS OF UNSPEAKABLE ATROCITIES

The newpaper above that called it "genocide" commited libel, you're commintting slander.


If someone picks up a gun and fires at soldiers - they're going to get killed or wounded, no doubt about it - it's the soldier's job to fire back, and they have training
Title: I now love the Iraqi government
Post by: aldo_14 on April 10, 2004, 11:01:34 am
Code: [Select]
genocide

n : systematic killing of a racial or cultural group [syn: race murder, racial extermination]

Source: WordNet ® 1.6, © 1997 Princeton University


slightly different meaning here...... and remember that the perception of Iraqis may very well fit in with that - especially if the Us is bombing mosques and whatnot.

EDIT: to be more explicit, I don't think it could be considered genocide, anyways.  However, the use of 'genocide' is deliberately emotive, and designed to get a reaction - as well as consideration over the morality of the tactics being used.
Title: I now love the Iraqi government
Post by: Rictor on April 10, 2004, 11:02:00 am
I never stated that it was. 450 people or less ain't genocide. Its murder on a pretty large scale, but its not genocide.

edit: and not all of them were civies. but then again, not all of them were militants. And you have to take in to account the gorwing number of casualties as well as the 3000+ wounded. And then there's the US siege, which prevents food and water from going in to Fallujah.
Title: I now love the Iraqi government
Post by: Kazan on April 10, 2004, 11:07:11 am
Rictor: if they picked up weapons it's not murder

"bombing mosques" - WE HIT THE OUTERWALL OF THE COMPOUND not the ****ing mosque itself, get your facts straight ignoramus -- you know WHY we hit it? because people were firing from behind that wall - soon as their fired from behind that wall it became a military target PLAIN AND SIMPLE
Title: I now love the Iraqi government
Post by: aldo_14 on April 10, 2004, 11:07:59 am
Quote
Originally posted by Rictor
I never stated that it was. 450 people or less ain't genocide. Its murder on a pretty large scale, but its not genocide.

edit: and not all of them were civies. but then again, not all of them were militants. And you have to take in to account the gorwing number of casualties as well as the 3000+ wounded. And then there's the US siege, which prevents food and water from going in to Fallujah.

Kazan was referring to Lonestars post, i think

For reference (from link at top);

Quote
One Sunni Muslim member, Ghazi Ajil al-Yawer, said he was ready to resign over the Falluja crisis.

"How can a superpower like the US put itself in a state of war with a small city like Falluja? This is genocide,"
Title: I now love the Iraqi government
Post by: Kazan on April 10, 2004, 11:09:25 am
and then several of you picked it up and ran with it
Title: I now love the Iraqi government
Post by: aldo_14 on April 10, 2004, 11:09:55 am
Quote
Originally posted by Kazan
"bombing mosques" - WE HIT THE OUTERWALL OF THE COMPOUND not the ****ing mosque itself, get your facts straight ignoramus -- you know WHY we hit it? because people were firing from behind that wall - soon as their fired from behind that wall it became a military target PLAIN AND SIMPLE


It doesn;t matter.  The normal Iraqi - or normal Muslim - does not go 'oh, they hit the outer wall - that's ok'.  what they see, is a US aircraft firing into a holy building / compound.  They see a giant blume of smoke and an explosion in front of a minaret.  Simple as that.
Title: I now love the Iraqi government
Post by: Nico on April 10, 2004, 11:52:50 am
Quote
Originally posted by Kazan
Rictor: if they picked up weapons it's not murder


Excepted they might have the right since they're in their own friggin country and wants the US soldiers to get out? You're the first one to say you'd shoot at anybody invading your home, right? The USA have invaded Irak, it has to bear the consequences now. Many people said it'd turn that way ever before **** actually started the whole thing, it was pretty obvious. And they were right, that's gonna be bad, very bad :p
Title: I now love the Iraqi government
Post by: Rictor on April 10, 2004, 11:56:29 am
slightly OT, but still..

US asks Al-Jazeera to leave Fallujah (http://www.islamonline.net/English/News/2004-04/09/article06.shtml)
Title: I now love the Iraqi government
Post by: Kazan on April 10, 2004, 12:21:09 pm
inappropraite - media shouls stay - even if they're potentially biased