Hard Light Productions Forums

Modding, Mission Design, and Coding => FS2 Open Coding - The Source Code Project (SCP) => Topic started by: DaBrain on April 14, 2004, 11:52:04 am

Title: Da improvement pack 1.0
Post by: DaBrain on April 14, 2004, 11:52:04 am
I finished my work on my improvement pack.

I will be hard to make screenshots, cause most of it is animated stuff.

http://www.geocities.com/dabrain2005/improvement_pack1.0.zip
http://www.geocities.com/dabrain2005/improvement_pack1.0.zip
(4,5 MB)

We might need some mirrors...
Title: Da improvement pack 1.0
Post by: Liberator on April 14, 2004, 12:01:58 pm
Give me a minute to put in one of my FTP spaces, is Swooh availabe for DL again?

*edit*
give it about 5 minutes and I'll post a link to a mirror, try to take it easy as this is my personal FTP from Charter and I'm not entirely sure what the bandwidth limitations are.

*edit*
here's the link Da Brain's Improvement Pack 1.0 (http://webpages.charter.net/johnmynard/improvement_pack1.0.zip) just take it easy on the bandwidth and I'll take it down if asked.
Title: Da improvement pack 1.0
Post by: DaBrain on April 14, 2004, 12:41:42 pm
Your name will be added in the credits of the next version :)


This pack needs Lightspeeds weapon effects 1.5a.

The tables are modified to use my effects in addition.


The system requirements should be higher than before. I didn´t notice any performance loss, but there should be one.

You need to create a new pilot.
Title: Da improvement pack 1.0
Post by: kasperl on April 14, 2004, 01:14:27 pm
what does this do, exactly?

Is this SCP sanctioned or not?
Title: Da improvement pack 1.0
Post by: DaBrain on April 14, 2004, 01:26:38 pm
This contains new Beamglows, sounds, Particle ani´s, new shield ani.
And also reworked missiletrails and I changed the explosion ani´s to fit to more modern system.
More, and bigger (new) particles, are spawned, when a Beam is shot.


It is not SCP sanctioned.
But since you need Lighspeeds effects, I thought putting this into the same forum where Lightspeed posted this, would be good.

You need FSO to use it.
Title: Da improvement pack 1.0
Post by: Kazan on April 14, 2004, 01:34:01 pm
sincei t modifies tables it may not be multiplayer compatable
Title: Da improvement pack 1.0
Post by: DaBrain on April 14, 2004, 01:40:34 pm
Nope, but I could  create a multiplayer version of this without changed tables. That will decrease the effects. But not very much.

I have already completed new tables. Wich don´t need LS effects.

Before doing this, some Feedback would be nice.
Title: Da improvement pack 1.0
Post by: Flipside on April 14, 2004, 02:39:56 pm
:lol:

Downloading now :)

Hey, those explosions are great! They are too big to be [v]'s so I'm assuming someone knows how to use Hypervoxels ;)

One or two of the smaller ANI's seem a tiny bit 'jerky' about halfway though, as though a frame is repeated or something, could be my Aniviewer though ;)

The shield hit has a bit of glare problem, and, imho, is too big really for what it does.

Can I just say again... Those explosions, they're like [v]'s only bigger! :D I'd suggest you make the 'standard' ones larger though, they don't need to be tiny anymore with the SCP, do them as 256 x 256 at least for LOD0.
Title: Da improvement pack 1.0
Post by: ChronoReverse on April 14, 2004, 03:10:17 pm
Hmm I like it.

Some points:

The beams glows are great!  Major and minor flares without being too "furry".

Did you change the flak animation?  It looks cleaner now.

When a BFG hits its target, the explosion ani is too big.  It's HUGE.

Dunno what to make of the new sound effects for the guns.  I suppose it's something some people will like and some won't.

I like the new shield hit effect, but I don't know if everyone will like it.
Title: Da improvement pack 1.0
Post by: Liberator on April 14, 2004, 03:14:03 pm
How can I monitor my bandwidth usage?

I need to know if this gets excessive, as I can't exactly pay Charter should they come calling.
Title: Da improvement pack 1.0
Post by: pyro-manic on April 14, 2004, 03:16:36 pm
I think it'll just stop working after it gets over the limit. Don't quote me on it, though...
Title: Da improvement pack 1.0
Post by: ChronoReverse on April 14, 2004, 03:27:48 pm
Oh and bonus marks in the splash screen for having an action shot that shows off some of the new effects.


I bring a gift: more available bandwidth... improvement_pack1.0.zip (http://swooh.com/peon/chronoreverse/improvement_pack1.0.zip)
Title: Da improvement pack 1.0
Post by: Turambar on April 14, 2004, 03:35:20 pm
*feels threatened*
lol

good stuff, now i have to do better (and i was about to slack off...)

*opens photoshop and dives in*

look for new thruster effects this evening
Title: Da improvement pack 1.0
Post by: DaBrain on April 14, 2004, 03:50:42 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Flipside

Can I just say again... Those explosions, they're like [v]'s only bigger! :D I'd suggest you make the 'standard' ones larger though, they don't need to be tiny anymore with the SCP, do them as 256 x 256 at least for LOD0.


Thats right. These are [v]'s explosion anis. I always hated these overblured blocky smal explosions. So I replaced them with bigger ones.
I think this gives the game more "sharpness".
And PCs are faster than 1999, so we don´t need lod for those explosions.  (Same goes for flak launch/explosion)

I could have unLODed the other explosions too, but this could really cause perfomance problems when a capship explodes.


The shield ani looks crappy in Aniview, but I realy like it in game.


If you want to play on net, you can use your standart tables.
You will loose all new beamglows and get less, smaler paticles spawned on beams.
Every thing else should be ok.
Title: Da improvement pack 1.0
Post by: DaBrain on April 14, 2004, 04:01:08 pm
This is how the shield effect looks now.


(http://www.ystart.net/upload/20040414/1081976125.jpg)

(http://www.ystart.net/upload/20040414/1081976309.jpg)

(http://www.ystart.net/upload/20040414/1081976344.jpg)
Title: Da improvement pack 1.0
Post by: ChronoReverse on April 14, 2004, 04:03:01 pm
Actually, it looks better than that in game ;)
Title: Re: Da improvement pack 1.0
Post by: DaBrain on April 14, 2004, 04:04:28 pm
Quote
Originally posted by DaBrain


I will be hard to make screenshots, cause most of it is animated stuff.


:nod:


This was the best I could do.




Beamglow particles:

(http://www.ystart.net/upload/20040414/1081976810.jpg)

My favorite effect :)
Looks way better in-game.
Title: Da improvement pack 1.0
Post by: jdjtcagle on April 14, 2004, 05:12:58 pm
This is truly Great!!!:yes:
Now put it in a VP:nod:
Title: Da improvement pack 1.0
Post by: Lightspeed on April 14, 2004, 05:16:51 pm
Call me a moron, but I prefer the stock effects.
Title: Da improvement pack 1.0
Post by: DaBrain on April 14, 2004, 06:08:02 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Lightspeed
Call me a moron, but I prefer the stock effects.


Even for the explosions ? :confused:
Title: Da improvement pack 1.0
Post by: ChronoReverse on April 14, 2004, 06:39:19 pm
What about the flak?  It looks almost the same except clearer...
Title: Da improvement pack 1.0
Post by: DaBrain on April 14, 2004, 06:45:58 pm
The flak LOD is reduced to stage0 and stage4.
So you will have a "clear" effect until it is really far away.

And the for the launch it´s the same as for all effects wich use the missilehit ani. Al LOD stages are the same. Highest quality.


You should see it when a beam, or a missile hits a ship. The explosion looks much better an will stay longer.


Edit:
Here are some screenies which will show the difference.
The Infyrno is the missile of my choice for this :)


Old (expl. 500m away)
(http://www.ystart.net/upload/20040415/1081987645.jpg)

New (expl. 500m away)
(http://www.ystart.net/upload/20040415/1081987878.jpg)


Old (expl. 100m away)
(http://www.ystart.net/upload/20040415/1081987921.jpg)

New (expl. 100m away)
(http://www.ystart.net/upload/20040415/1081987959.jpg)
Title: Da improvement pack 1.0
Post by: Lightspeed on April 14, 2004, 08:26:02 pm
Its basically all the normal effects with their LODs removed. LODs are there for a reason, though  :)

Then, theres the missile trails- pretty nice except for maybe missile trail5, although generally the 'embossed fibre' looks a bit odd.

The beam effects have some issues too. Instead of smooth shadings, we can see colour cutting edges, and loads of them. VOrange is the best example to see this - it really looks like 64 colours. The only exception is TGreen, which looks odd because the four spikes intersect with the ship hull. SRed doesnt have those issues either, but looks kinda flowery.

The green explosion - it's odd, and it has a colour cutting edge on the left side. Make sure an ANI is faded to RGB $0,0,0 at all 4 sides.

The particle also looks a bit odd, since it is 'shivering around' instead of staying still when flashing up.

The shield hit, erm... if the orange glow was 64 colours this must be a 4 colour animation. Really, if you use grey scale for an effect (like the shield hit) you should have ALL possible shades available (RGB $0,0,0 to RGB$255,255,255 - fits perfectly in 256 colours) - instead its horribly dithered and has odd edges outside the actual effect (see frames 0-5), and theres some green pixels (?) in frame 12. Also, this too, has problems with the edges of the ANI.

The preload TGA is pretty nice, although you should try to get one where the thruster bug (see left bottom corner) is not that obvious, and lower the ambient/diffuse lighting a bit to give it a more ambienty-feel :D
Title: Da improvement pack 1.0
Post by: DaBrain on April 14, 2004, 08:43:09 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Lightspeed
Its basically all the normal effects with their LODs removed. LODs are there for a reason, though  :)

Then, theres the missile trails- pretty nice except for maybe missile trail5, although generally the 'embossed fibre' looks a bit odd.

The green explosion - it's odd, and it has a colour cutting edge on the left side. Make sure an ANI is faded to RGB $0,0,0 at all 4 sides.

The particle also looks a bit odd, since it is 'shivering around' instead of staying still when flashing up.

The shield hit, erm... if the orange glow was 64 colours this must be a 4 colour animation. Really, if you use grey scale for an effect (like the shield hit) you should have ALL possible shades available (RGB $0,0,0 to RGB$255,255,255 - fits perfectly in 256 colours) - instead its horribly dithered and has odd edges outside the actual effect (see frames 0-5), and theres some green pixels (?) in frame 12. Also, this too, has problems with the edges of the ANI.

The preload TGA is pretty nice, although you should try to get one where the thruster bug (see left bottom corner) is not that obvious, and lower the ambient/diffuse lighting a bit to give it a more ambienty-feel :D


The green explosion is not used.  I only forgot to delete it.
It was used for a test. I tried to use it as green beam explosion.


You won´t see the particles shivering. They are too smal and the ani is too fast.

And I tried out different shield anis. I thought I had quite cool ideas for it, but this was the one looking best in the game...
It was pretty smoth shaded before, but in game it looked very lame.

And green edges in a greyscaled ani ? I think I need to check this.

I noticed the thrusterbug in the corner AFTER releasing it :(

Well but shows the real FSSCP: Looking good, but a few bugs :)


I need to get used to color palettes...


Quote
Originally posted by Lightspeed

The beam effects have some issues too. Instead of smooth shadings, we can see colour cutting edges, and loads of them. VOrange is the best example to see this - it really looks like 64 colours. The only exception is TGreen, which looks odd because the four spikes intersect with the ship hull. SRed doesnt have those issues either, but looks kinda flowery.


Something is wrong with Vorange. But I will rework that effect anyway. Tblue has that issue, but for Tblue its not that bad, because anti fighter beamglows are pretty tiny, so it will be hard to notic this in-game. The interscting problem is the same as for the thrusters. There is nothing I can do to fix it, since I cannot code...

Quote
Originally posted by Lightspeed
Its basically all the normal effects with their LODs removed. LODs are there for a reason, though  :)
 


The LODs were there for 400-500 Mhz PCs.
And as I said before: It should be a performance hit, but my framerate is as high as before.

And it is not quite the same ani. :) The normal expmissilehit is too ugly for FSO...


What about the sounds ?
Title: Da improvement pack 1.0
Post by: Carl on April 14, 2004, 08:55:42 pm
looking at the .ani files, i don't see a difference between them and the V ones, except for the green explosion, which is just a V explosion with a blob of green at the beginning, and the shield effect, which isn't as good at the V one.

all in all, it's ok. not as good as Voltion, but fine for a beginner.

the sounds are definately the best, though :yes: how did you make them?
Title: Da improvement pack 1.0
Post by: DaBrain on April 14, 2004, 09:05:26 pm
With the original shield ani, it was a bit hard to see where the shield was hit.

Now you can see it perfectly. And it "feels" better to hit.
But thats my oppinion.

But the removed LOD should be part of the next mediaVP.
And I am interessted in BOBs new shield renderer.


Quote
Originally posted by Carl
the sounds are definately the best, though :yes: how did you make them?


Credits :nervous:

Quote
Originally posted by Carl
looking at the .ani files, i don't see a difference between them and the V ones


I only renamed them, after extracting them.
Not a big thing,  but not everybody want/can do this.
So this is a good thing to keep it easy for everybody.

The main features are the beam glow/particles. The explosion anis were only changed to improve the visuals.
Title: Da improvement pack 1.0
Post by: Lightspeed on April 15, 2004, 09:23:03 am
Sounds are ripped from Freelancer and Homeworld AFAIK.

and making a crappy graphic just because "its all small and you wont notice ingame" is no excuse :P

As Carl said, it's okay - and definately nice for a beginner. I'll try removing my explosion LODs too one of these days - although it definately shouldnt go into the mediaVP. Instead I would like to see it as a command line or setting in the options screen - you simply make the game use LOD 1 whatever distance the explosion is rendered. This is both a much cleaner, and easier solution as you will not need ANY new files. :)
Title: Da improvement pack 1.0
Post by: .::Tin Can::. on April 15, 2004, 10:58:20 am
regardless, I'm downloading this... I've been looking forward to those new beam effects for a long time! Nice explosions too! :yes:
Title: Da improvement pack 1.0
Post by: Lightspeed on April 15, 2004, 11:24:21 am
Yeah, volition sure did a great job on them :)
Title: Da improvement pack 1.0
Post by: .::Tin Can::. on April 15, 2004, 11:26:18 am
And I'll download your nebula effects, lightspeed... :D
Title: Da improvement pack 1.0
Post by: Lightspeed on April 15, 2004, 12:35:14 pm
You've inspired me to play around a bit with explosions...

Lightspeeds high-explosive compilation™ (http://www.penguinbomb.com/lightspeed/FS2-HighExplosive.zip)

Includes the following:



Try it :)
Title: Da improvement pack 1.0
Post by: Taristin on April 15, 2004, 12:41:51 pm
Oh, so this is why I haven't recieved texturing tips. :lol:
Title: Da improvement pack 1.0
Post by: .::Tin Can::. on April 15, 2004, 01:41:25 pm
Pix? I always need pix before trying something out.
Title: Da improvement pack 1.0
Post by: DaBrain on April 15, 2004, 01:42:32 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Lightspeed
You've inspired me to play around a bit with explosions...

Lightspeeds high-explosive compilation™ (http://www.penguinbomb.com/lightspeed/FS2-HighExplosive.zip)

Includes the following:

  • High Res ANIs (from FS1 and FS2)
  • LODs for explosions removed for clearer distance views
  • New flak explosion (from FS1)
  • Smooth Explosion Technique™ (15 FPS explosions looked a bit stuttery)


Try it :) [/B]


Downloading now.
But the filesize is a bit high...
Perhaps these ani files a too huge.



Quote
Originally posted by Lightspeed
. Instead I would like to see it as a command line or setting in the options screen - you simply make the game use LOD 1 whatever distance the explosion is rendered. This is both a much cleaner, and easier solution as you will not need ANY new files. :)


That should be the best way to do it.




Edit: Somehow they make me remember the UT (1) explosions.
I think they are too fast. The speed increasement makes them stay very short. Wich is pretty unrealistic.
I don't really like the new flak explosion.
And I didn't change the normal explosions because of the huge performance hit when a capship explodes.
Before changing the normal explosions, we need a code change to separate the capship expl. ani´s form the normal ones.
Title: Da improvement pack 1.0
Post by: Flipside on April 15, 2004, 02:37:39 pm
I've actually got some hypervoxel stuff set up for rendering, but the problem is I'm going to have to wait till I go abroad on Holiday or something before I start it :(
Title: Da improvement pack 1.0
Post by: Lightspeed on April 15, 2004, 05:31:03 pm
Quote

I think they are too fast. The speed increasement makes them stay very short. Wich is pretty unrealistic.


I know, but filling in interpolated frames is gonna take a while - I could do that but I still wonder if it's be worth the trouble. But I still think a bit too fast explosions look better than stuttering ones.

Quote

I don't really like the new flak explosion.
And I didn't change the normal explosions because of the huge performance hit when a capship explodes.


Same as with the other LOD removing. All you need is a mighty computer ;7

FLAK thing is just personal taste, if you don't like it, just remove all "exp20..." files.

 
Quote

Before changing the normal explosions, we need a code change to separate the capship expl. ani´s form the normal ones.


That could be pretty useful, too.
Title: Da improvement pack 1.0
Post by: DaBrain on April 15, 2004, 08:03:02 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Lightspeed






Same as with the other LOD removing. All you need is a mighty computer ;7




I not sure about this. The capship explosions were the heaviest perfomance hit in the past.
Now (after most of us got better hardware) they should be no problem anymore. But only with LOD.

For the normal explosions the removement of the LOD should not cause problems (only on really low-end systems).
In contrast to the ones used for capship explosions, these ani´s are only placed individually. (1 per effect)

Having 10 (not sure, mutiple big scaled expl. and shockwaves) or so played at once will be a performance hit on average systems.
Title: Da improvement pack 1.0
Post by: Lt.Cannonfodder on April 15, 2004, 10:57:28 pm
Quote
Originally posted by DaBrain
Having 10 (not sure, mutiple big scaled expl. and shockwaves) or so played at once will be a performance hit on average systems.


Try blowing up a capship with 512x512 explosions without LODs. That takes even a high end system down, if only for a moment.
Title: Da improvement pack 1.0
Post by: ChronoReverse on April 15, 2004, 11:03:23 pm
Yeah, it's really harsh.  Try playing The King's Gambit O_o


/me hopes that the .ani format will be replaced on day with something more efficient.
Title: Da improvement pack 1.0
Post by: Lt.Cannonfodder on April 15, 2004, 11:24:04 pm
Quote
Originally posted by ChronoReverse
/me hopes that the .ani format will be replaced on day with something more efficient.


I hope they add a 24 or 32 bit support. The lack of colors is driving me crazy, not to mention the time wasted trying to get the palette right.
Title: Da improvement pack 1.0
Post by: Bobboau on April 15, 2004, 11:40:23 pm
32bit animation is something brought up quite recently we want it too
Title: Da improvement pack 1.0
Post by: Liberator on April 16, 2004, 12:53:05 am
So you're looking at replaceing anis?
Title: Da improvement pack 1.0
Post by: Lightspeed on April 16, 2004, 10:11:50 am
Quote
Originally posted by DaBrain

I not sure about this. The capship explosions were the heaviest perfomance hit in the past.
Now (after most of us got better hardware) they should be no problem anymore. But only with LOD.

For the normal explosions the removement of the LOD should not cause problems (only on really low-end systems).
In contrast to the ones used for capship explosions, these ani´s are only placed individually. (1 per effect)

Having 10 (not sure, mutiple big scaled expl. and shockwaves) or so played at once will be a performance hit on average systems.


yes, maybe so. But then again, I have no slow down whatsoever with my changes :)
Title: Da improvement pack 1.0
Post by: DaBrain on April 16, 2004, 11:25:53 am
Quote
Originally posted by Lightspeed
Its basically all the normal effects with their LODs removed. LODs are there for a reason, though  :)


:p
Title: Da improvement pack 1.0
Post by: Lightspeed on April 16, 2004, 02:41:33 pm
I know. Its just that the nearer LODs should be upped in frame size. :D
Title: Da improvement pack 1.0
Post by: Vanguard on April 17, 2004, 03:16:52 am
Hey is there anyway to give primary weapons on capital ships a muzzle flash?  So the projectiles wouldn't just magically appear out of the barrel for instance?  But I'm afraid it might slow things down considerably.
Title: Da improvement pack 1.0
Post by: Bobboau on April 17, 2004, 03:28:46 am
it's something were gona try after 3.6, actualy for turrets it might work now (like you have for flak)
Title: Da improvement pack 1.0
Post by: Vanguard on April 17, 2004, 03:35:45 am
Yes!  That's what I was thinking.  

Maybe kind of like a really rapid beam glow for lasers and stuff.  Like a tenth a second long.  Just a flash and the laser gets shot out and then the glow quickly recedes.  But like I said I'm afraid that would slow things down a lot if you've got a big ship with tons of guns shooting at once.  Or worse, a dozen big ships like that.
Title: Da improvement pack 1.0
Post by: Bobboau on April 17, 2004, 03:41:53 am
it wouldn't slow things down, the system can handle multable 10,000 poly ships at 120fps if properly managed