Hard Light Productions Forums
Off-Topic Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: 01010 on April 14, 2004, 03:48:38 pm
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It's looking pretty impressive so far, ATI release theirs in the next week or so, that'll be interesting.
http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.html?i=2023
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It'll be VERY interesting considering nvidia pretty much fixed all the problems with the nv3x.
Only thing bad about this is that 8x anti-aliasing is still super slow and Farcry 1.1 still breaks pixel shaders for the geforces.
Even though it uses two molex connectors, it actually uses less than 10 watts more than a 5950 Ultra. Looks like the 480W powersuply requirement is just for people with poor powersupplies. People have tried it with a 300 watt powersupply with no problems (and I know for certain my Enermax 350watt supply with the enhanced 12v rail will have no problems).
It looks like the r420 will have something to compete against this time. Which is good for me since prices wars == good for buyers.
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The new Nvidia looks promising--not for its stats, but for what its going to do to the prices of the current crop of Radeons and FX series Nvidia cards. :)
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Eh? At least this is the first time nvidia made good on their claim of 2x performance. It's weird having them tell the truth for once.
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Originally posted by mikhael
The new Nvidia looks promising--not for its stats, but for what its going to do to the prices of the current crop of Radeons and FX series Nvidia cards. :)
This is what I've been thinking ;). Also the reason I can't wait for ATI to release their lot, I've been itching to get a Radeon 9800 for a while now.
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it is rather odd to see them live up to their own hype for once
that cooling system is still ****ing pathetic though
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[color=66ff00]Was waiting for you to arrive Kaz, that's a pretty restrained comment from you compared to your usual thoughs on nVidia. :)
[/color]
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I dunno. They lived up to their own hypre for... oh... everything but the FX series of cards. Hell they even lived up to it with the FX5900 cards.
The Cooling system IS pathetic. So is the cooling system on Radeons. As is any system that requires a double width card for cooling. The only reason for a double width card is when you need the room for more electronics (like a Wildcat.mmmmm Wildcat. :)).
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Indeed, I can't wait for the prices on the Radeon 9800 to drop either :D
But it will be quite interesting to see what ATI will come up with next week.
To see if they will once again keep nvidia down, or if nvidia will take home the trophy this time.
(places bet on ATI)
yes, I'm an ATI whore :p
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which radeon requires double wide cooling? the radeons cooling is barely active cooling...
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Hrm. It appears you're right: the card I thought was an ATI was actually an Nvidia FX5900. Sorry about that.
Doesn't change the rest of what I said though.
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Interestingly enough, this has been the ONLY time nvidia's claims of 2x performance over the previous generation was true without driver revisions.
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Fascinating.
I expect that it'll be at least one more iteration until I upgrade, probably longer, but still very interesting to read.
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Well, the best time to upgrade will probably be Christmas of this year. That's when all the PCI-e refreshes of the high-end cards all come out.
Since it'll have been a while since the mid-range pci-e cards came out, the bugs should've been ironed out.
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large power usage, though...
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Not really. Compared to other high end last-generation card, it doesn't use that much more (I'm referring to nvidia cards, the ATi cards use less power).
(http://techreport.com/reviews/2004q2/geforce-6800ultra/power.gif)
Note that this is TOTAL system power usage.
The 6800U has been tested with high quality 350W power supplies without any problems. You just need on where the 12V rail has sufficient current.
So if you have an Enermax with the enhanced 12v rail(like me), you'd have no problems even with a 350W supply.
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Nah, I have a CompUSA brand 250 watt PSU. It's ~5w more than my PC uses...
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Originally posted by Zuljin
Indeed, I can't wait for the prices on the Radeon 9800 to drop either :D
But it will be quite interesting to see what ATI will come up with next week.
To see if they will once again keep nvidia down, or if nvidia will take home the trophy this time.
(places bet on ATI)
yes, I'm an ATI whore :p
w00t!!
Phe4r my Nvidia GeForce 2 Mx 100/200
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Only if you ph34r my GF2 mx200/400 PCI
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Ph34r my Voodoo Banshee and Matrox Millenium II
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Originally posted by ChronoReverse
Not really. Compared to other high end last-generation card, it doesn't use that much more (I'm referring to nvidia cards, the ATi cards use less power).
Note that this is TOTAL system power usage.
The 6800U has been tested with high quality 350W power supplies without any problems. You just need on where the 12V rail has sufficient current.
So if you have an Enermax with the enhanced 12v rail(like me), you'd have no problems even with a 350W supply.
Wattage is overrated in power supplies anyway. As it's the combined total of all the power rails you could conceivably have a 500W supply that was incapable of powering this monster if it favoured the 5V rail over the others. It would still work out as a 500W supply but without a hefty 12V rail it would most likely go "pop" when you powered it up with the 6800 in there.
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:lol:
Ph34r my TNT2!
(In my spare PC)
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well, it seems reasonable.
still i will never buy a card with a bloody vacuum cleaner on it, not untill they make totally soundproof cases anyway.
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Cool, now Radeon can release the REAL monster in this market.
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as long as they keep a card with passive cooling or something.......
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it certainly looks ub3r. Might stick itin my own computer if i can afford the thing.
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Okay, look, if the ATI card has half as many transistors as the Nvidia, that is still as many as the current P4s and look how you have to cool those.
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kasperl: a simple fan is still active cooling - but barely
i doubt ATI will have to put anything elaborate on their GPU
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Looks like nV delivered on there end. Can't wait for ATI, though.
I'm sitting pretty with an R9800 already, so I'll wait for R500/NV50
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Wee. They're dropping like flies already! (http://www.pricewatch.com/1/37/5862-1.htm) :D
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Originally posted by ubermetroid
:lol:
Ph34r my TNT2!
(In my spare PC)
Don't diss the TNT cards! :mad2: :p They are quite reliable cards and were really nice in their day. :D
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Originally posted by Raa Tor'h
Wee. They're dropping like flies already! (http://www.pricewatch.com/1/37/5862-1.htm) :D
Woohoo, this is what I've been waiting for. Incidentally has anyone seen the trailer for the newest Unreal engine that was played at the Geforce 6800 launch thingy yesterday, unbelieveable.
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linky?
One thing I have seen is a screenshot comparison from Far Cry using Pixel Shader 3.0. IMO, it's twice as pretty, there is a very visible difference. If I thought it would run in my system without killing it, I might consider dropping some bones for it.
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Originally posted by Raa Tor'h
Wee. They're dropping like flies already! (http://www.pricewatch.com/1/37/5862-1.htm) :D
sweet :D
now I just need to save up some cash :p
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Seems like a rather nice card, and from what I understand about the R420, they should be about equal in performance (ATI having better performance with AA, nVidia actually having better shaders for once). And the cooling solution could be a lot worse. And who actually uses all of their PCI slots, anyway? I'm using less than half of mine, and if I had my way, I'd only be using one (I'd like to remove that stupid winmodem).
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Originally posted by Liberator
linky?
One thing I have seen is a screenshot comparison from Far Cry using Pixel Shader 3.0. IMO, it's twice as pretty, there is a very visible difference. If I thought it would run in my system without killing it, I might consider dropping some bones for it.
http://files.filefront.com/2586425
Yeah, the Far Cry pictures were a big improvement over an already gorgeous game. Don't know whether to go for this newest generation or the last one at the cheaper price. What an ordeal.
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I was reading [H]'s review of the card, and found something interesting. nVidia actually implemented true Trilinear filtering! It takes some work to enable (you have to go into the advanced options), but it exists!
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I wonder how bad ass it's gonna be when someone actually overclocks this sucka..
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430/1200 was the best [H]ardOCP pulled off with the stock cooling and the reference card. I wonder how high the Abit and MSI offerings will reach....
The 6800 (non-Ultra) seems to be a good performance mainstream card, with 12 pipelines and requiring only a single molex and slot at about $299.
Assuming costs stay the same as they did from this generation, the x800 XT will probably beat the 6800 Ultra for the power/cost ratio, but the x800 Pro should be close to the 6800 in both costs and power, and those will be the ones that I myself will be looking at.
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Great. Just great. Jut as I was about to order a Radeon 9700 Pro.
Now what do I do? Wait for their prices to go down further and save, or get the best card I can for what I would have spent?
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Originally posted by Sandwich
Great. Just great. Jut as I was about to order a Radeon 9700 Pro.
Now what do I do? Wait for their prices to go down further and save, or get the best card I can for what I would have spent?
From what I've gathered about this card from reviews and such I'm tempted to save the extra money and spoil myself, twice as fast as the Radeon 9800XT at 1600x1200 4xAA 16xAF in Call of Duty (something like 70 fps) is phenomenal in my eyes.
I'm really, really torn about what to do.
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Originally posted by Sandwich
Great. Just great. Jut as I was about to order a Radeon 9700 Pro.
Now what do I do? Wait for their prices to go down further and save, or get the best card I can for what I would have spent?
Just wait a little while and get a Radeon 9800 pro instead :nod:
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Get a 9800 Pro now. They were only about $220 before the 6800 Ultra was released.
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USD$499 is way too much for a video card regardless of how fast it is. I won't be touching this (or the R420 for that matter) with a ten foot pole.
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Has anyone got a link to a review comparing the 6800 Ultra with the plain-Jane, ~$250 6800? ;) I'd like to see performance differences. :D
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Mike, wait it out. This is a generation jump, and it'll make prices drop significantly (as opposed to incremental improvements, which you can't wait out because they'll keep popping up). I say wait and watch. :)
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that card wants a 480W supp minimum 2 seperate molex connectors (not on same cable) and anything lower than a 3200+ barton will be too slow to get optimal preformance 1 gig ram recommended ... so if you got the money ... wait for the radeon with 16 pipes ;)
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I plan to, Ed - I plan to. :D
Any more details on the upcoming ATI competitor card?
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Yeah, what's ATI scheming up...
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has there been any news at all on the new ATI card?
I haven't heard anything about it spec wise.
Will only be a couple of days left though, until we will know for sure
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Hopefully 12-16 pipes in the high-end will bring about a return to 8 pipes in the mid range meaning when the time comes (which won't be for a while, I have more important things to upgrade in my PC than the video card besides, the 9500 Pro is still no slouch) I'll finally have a decent upgrade from the 9500 Pro.
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Hmmm, someone tried the 6800U with a 200W powersupply.
It seems to work (http://www.nvnews.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=27394&page=1&pp=15)
In any case, the r420 will also likely require a really fast cpu to perform its best since if both cards are powerful, then the cpu will be the limiting factor.
I'm personally hoping the rumours of a 600MHz clock for the x800xt are true since that'll mean (theoretically calculated) it should outperform the 6800U. But some newer rumours are saying only 500MHz.
Oh and the 6800xt will have 8 pipes most likely.
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The 480w thing is to prevent people from using **** power supplies with it.
3 rungs for each, and about the same clockspeed for both the ATI and nVidia. The x800 XT has 16 pipes, x800 Pro has 12, x800 has 8. Meanwhile, the 6800U has 16, 6800 has 12, 6800 XT will most likely have 8. Figure the prices to be 4-500, 250-300, and 150-200. About a 500 MHz clockspeed for both high ends at most. Similar performance. nVidia will have PS3.0, while the R420 has only PS2.0. ATI will still have the advantage of TruForm or whatever it is. Both high-end variants will require 2 molex connectors until the PEG variants come out, when they'll switch to 1. The performance mainstream and mainstream variants will have 1 molex connector, probably won't require that on the PEG variant.
And as always, never buy the bleeding edge card unless you're the kind of guy who would buy a Prometia or a TEC waterblock. The performance mainstream has a far better cost/performance ratio.
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Actually, Truform as of the 9xxx series no longer is accelerated in hardware :O
That's right, your shiny 9800XT does Truform in software.
Luckily for us, PS2.0 and up does allow for displacement mapping which is good for making a flat surface look detailed. But unlike bumpmapping, you can look at it from an angle and it'll still work properly.
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I kinda interested in how Nvidia is going to decrease this for Mainstream and Budget levels.
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Let's see.....
Bleeding Edge: 6800U: 16x, 400/1100 (current specs)
Performance: 6800: 12x, probably 375/1000 (personal estimate for clock speeds here on down)
Performance Mainstream: 6800 XT: 8x, probably 350/900
Mainstream: probably 6500 (guesses on everything from here down): 8x, 300/700
Budget: 6200, 4x, 250/600
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More likely they'll have a different core for the mainstream and budget cards.
That's what ATi's going to do and I don't see why nvidia will be any different. It's also what both companies did in the past.
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The cores are different, but they're just dumbed down derivatives. Did you miss that in the earlier generations?
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You obvious didn't see the GF4mx and the Radeon 9200.
Both of those actually were based on an earlier core (9200 was based on the 8500 core and the GF4mx was based on the GF2 core).
The point is, sometimes they take an earlier core and sometimes they use a dumbed down core.
It's rumoured that the low end X500 Radeons might be using the R360 core instead of a r4xx core.
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Forgot about the RV380, didn't I? That's going to be the midrange core. Think it's still 8 pipelines, might be 4.
Midrange is usually a dumbed down version though. 5600 was a dumbed down 5900, 9500 was a partially gelded 9700, etc.