Hard Light Productions Forums
Off-Topic Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: Martinus on April 15, 2004, 11:54:24 am
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Size matters (//theprodukkt.com)
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:eek2: :eek2:
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oh dear
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These. guys. are. gods.
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:eek:
It's actually playable as well! Sorta reminds me of Doom or Wolf3D or something like that. VERY impressive. :nod::yes:
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Wow. Now why can't more people do this?
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Well on my comp is goes all red and funky, still quite impressive though.
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doesn't work on my comp. I get an error when trying to run the exe. I downloaded twice, so its not that...
any help?
edit: I've got an onboard video card. That might be it. Its a very crappy one....
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:(
won't run because I don't have a DX8 Vidcard. :(
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Your not missing much, as a technical achievement it is outstanding, as a game it's very severely lacking.
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At 96KB who cares :) It shows what's possible with a little good knowledge. I wish the big names would give up sloppy code for something this neat... heck you could fit the entire thing on one CD again, as opposed to UT2004s 6....
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True dat. From the screenshots, it looks like it has per-pixel shading and all the goodies. If the big names start using this, maybe we'll be able to fit games in to a floppy again :D:D
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Oh.My.God. :eek2:
That is unbelievable. Not only the fact that the graphics are good and pritty much on par with everything else out there, but the fact that its under 100kb?!! THATS INSANE!!!
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Originally posted by Kalfireth
At 96KB who cares :) It shows what's possible with a little good knowledge. I wish the big names would give up sloppy code for something this neat... heck you could fit the entire thing on one CD again, as opposed to UT2004s 6....
Oh don't get me wrong, I think it's fantastic what they've done, I was just reassuring people that can't run it that they aren't missing out on any fun. :)
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wow, very impressive.
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It should be pointed out that this requires DX9.1, not 8.1. You have to have pixel shaders for this to work.
The reason they were able to pack everything into 96kb is... well, they didn't. They packed the algorithms for GENERATING the textures into 96kb. They have to be generated on the fly at runtime. If they didn't do that, the game would be far larger than 96kb.
Regardless, they do good work. :)
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It's crappy as hell :doubt:
1) the game sucks, ok, no biggy
2) It runs like ****, no 3d acceleration coupled with render effects ( I'll explain later ) is bad
3) couldn't even quit the game, I alt-F4 it, would still run tho, but not show in the task manager, had to reboot
Ok, now the magik behind the thing: very low poly models don't take much place ( and the models there are low poly, no doubt, yeah to square columns :p ). The crappy midi doesn't take much either I guess. Then you have the maps, that's what takes muchos place usually. So here they're using procedurals ( come close to a wall, you'll see, looks great, no pixelisation at all even if you stick your nose in the wall, and no tiling whatsoever, every brick looks different ). But procedurals take time to generate ( hence the 2 minutes long loading time ), and it's made for real time like trucks are mad for snowboarding.
And to top it off that's really nothing new, demomakers have done such things for DECADES ( I've seen procedurals on Amiga, for god sake ).
I'm gladly switching the 96kb for no loading time and a game that runs fine on anything else than a Cray.
Sorry to break the super enthousiastic trend there :p
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I had thought for a moment this was going to be a thread on the Windows source code....
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Incredible... a game under 100kbs needs pixel shader!! :D
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:( It crashed to BSOD in win2k.... and thats only the 5th time that's ever happened to me at all.
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Originally posted by Ghostavo
Incredible... a game under 100kbs needs pixel shader!! :D
There's none. Well, there is, but it's prerendered before the game starts.
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Any of the Geforce MX line will not work either.....
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[color=66ff00]The point (to me) is not how much fun the game is or how pretty it is but the very idea that so much can be achieved with so little code.
That very fact alone makes it something to consider with awe in this age of gigabytes of hard disk space. To me it suggests that something is amiss when you need 150 megs to install something like microsoft word.
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well, bang for buck (kilobyte in this case) this is the best game there is. except maybe pong...
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Originally posted by Kalfireth
At 96KB who cares :) It shows what's possible with a little good knowledge. I wish the big names would give up sloppy code for something this neat... heck you could fit the entire thing on one CD again, as opposed to UT2004s 6....
Thats why you get the DVD version of UT2004, which comes on one handy "play disc", come to think of it. Every game i,ve got this year has been DVD-rom.
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Originally posted by Maeglamor
[color=66ff00]The point (to me) is not how much fun the game is or how pretty it is but the very idea that so much can be achieved with so little code.
That very fact alone makes it something to consider with awe in this age of gigabytes of hard disk space. To me it suggests that something is amiss when you need 150 megs to install something like microsoft word.
[/color]
Maybe im a skeptic, but im tempted to believe that when you play it, it takes up a fair bit more room. Or not, i just thought that excessive loading time was it uncompressing itself.
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OT: UT2k4 - 6cd version is 8 quid cheaper than dvd on play.com. ;)
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Well, it's essentially a demo (in old sense, not the modern 'scaled down game' sense) more than it is a game. And in that perspective, it's very impressive.
If you find this interesting from a technological standpoint, try taking a look at any demo/intro competitions that are still around (not really been much into that since the amiga days, so no links sorry), it's damn impressive what people can fit into sometimes as little at 16kb :)
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My MX5600 runs it, though jerkily :) And yes I think it's incredible, remember not only have they fitted the game in there, they've fitted the unlit textures, the geometry etc. This is an extreme example, but the question remains, why does it take another 5.99 CD's of stuff to turn this into UT2K4?
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[q] why does it take another 5.99 CD's of stuff to turn this into UT2K4?[/q]
The aversion to massive loading times or dual processors with 6Ghz Clock speeds :lol:
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Pretty cool, but it runs really slowly on my computer, I think it needs more RAM or something. I have a Radeon 9600XT, I'd think that would be more than enough, but with only 380ish mb of RAM..
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Originally posted by Exarch
If you find this interesting from a technological standpoint, try taking a look at any demo/intro competitions that are still around (not really been much into that since the amiga days, so no links sorry),
Remember the Spaceballs series of demos? I loved those.
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Well, as they say, it is only using software rendering, for something that should be hardware rendered, but how much bigger did changing FS2 to HT&L make it? Practically none, and that wasn't even designed to be HT&L.
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Originally posted by Exarch
If you find this interesting from a technological standpoint, try taking a look at any demo/intro competitions that are still around (not really been much into that since the amiga days, so no links sorry), it's damn impressive what people can fit into sometimes as little at 16kb :)
Ah the memories, when cdroms started popping up in magazines, there was a magazine that would load theirs with demos ( and since demomaking is about making the more visual effects in the smallest file, believe me you can cram a lot of those in a CD ). Scandinavians were darn good at that. Remember equinoxe, revenge, triad...
"sheds tears of nostalgia"
Those were the days :)
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Originally posted by Maeglamor
[color=66ff00]The point (to me) is not how much fun the game is or how pretty it is but the very idea that so much can be achieved with so little code.
That very fact alone makes it something to consider with awe in this age of gigabytes of hard disk space. To me it suggests that something is amiss when you need 150 megs to install something like microsoft word.
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I think the fundamental problem is the advance of technology..... it becomes easier to do stuff quicker, without having to work as hard on efficiency. same goes for space usage, etc.......I think that the last thing to be optimised will be space usage, because the rest of technology has tighter boundaries to break....
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Originally posted by Nico
I'm gladly switching the 96kb for no loading time and a game that runs fine on anything else than a Cray.
seeing as the cray the computer club I'm a member of takes ages to do most basic stuff, I would too.
that, and it doesn't support directx at all, running a unix system and all...
but eh... I kind of agree with you, I guess.
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Heh, I remember installing the original 'After Dark' screensaver off of 5 1/2 inch floppy onto a 386 with a 2Mb Hard Drive and a 14" Greenscreen monitor, which completely ruined the effect of the After Dark btw ;)
I remember signing onto Amstrad bulletin boards, and all the board owners were your mates cos there were so few Amstrad owners with Modems :) And we sneaked into the PC World show by pretending we were a company, got the VIP treatment and all ;)
Hell, I could go on all day......
Edit : And by PC World, I don't mean the company, I mean the magazine, this was long before the company ;)
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[color=66ff00]Wow flip, I had a CPC464 back in the day. Of course I just used it to play Oh Mummy, Dizzy and other great games. ;)
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The first computer I ever used was an old Tandy 80/80, IIRC. I remember playing Star Trek on it. The Enterprise looked like this: << E >>
EDIT: Stupid HTML.
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LOL They were great, I used to have a 6128, but the drive kept conking out on me, and they cost a fortune :( I liked Oh Mummy, and Manic Miner, but my favourites were Ranarama and the somewhat good Gauntlet port :) Ah.... the simple days :D LOL
The fun really began when I started learning Z80 coding though :)
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first computer I used was a MO5 :p
(http://drake.nl/computermuseum/tomson/mo5.jpg)(http://www.classicgaming.com/miner2049er/versions/thomson/MO5.gif)
Yup, that's the whole thing, you plug it to a TV. There's a hole in the top left corner, I had some big thing looking like an electric shaver plugged there, don't know what it was, maybe the receptor for the optic pen.
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hehehe! I remember those, they were pretty hi-spec at the time iirc!
My first was this sorry piece of plastic called the Oric-1...
(http://www.aqsx85.dsl.pipex.com/Oric.jpg)
I actually started with a ZX81, but that was my brothers really. I upgraded to an Atmos later, still got it in the loft in fact :D
LOL My first baby-steps into programming was on this.
Look at that Space Bar btw, it was a bloody nightmare!
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I'll see your Oric-1 and raise you a Dragon ;)
(http://www.retro-trader.com/images/march03/DVC01742.JPG)
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I don't even rememper what was my first computer
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hahaha! I remember playing those down Dixons when it first opened :) The bummer about the Dragon32 was the fact it was like the Oric, ie. very few companies bothered to convert games for it :( At least it encouraged you to learn to write your own :)
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Alright. I'm in. I'll see your Dixons, Orics and Dragons and raise you the ALL MIGHTY VECTREX!
(http://www.roachnest.com/vectrex/images/vec_unit_gray.jpg)
:D
My earliest memories are of playing on this baby. Well, we did have an Atari before it. But this thing was the BOMB! Still is!
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All consider yourself pwn3d - I had a Sinclair ZX Specturm
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Now THAT beastie wins! :lol:
A had blisters for days from playing Asteroids on that joystick :(
I used to have the old Atari console too, Yars Revenge still pwns :)
Everyone had a ZX Spectrum ;) I had one of those posh Amstrad ones with the black 'ergonomic' keyboards and a tape deck glued to the side :)
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Originally posted by Dark_4ce
Alright. I'm in. I'll see your Dixons, Orics and Dragons and raise you the ALL MIGHTY VECTREX!
(http://www.roachnest.com/vectrex/images/vec_unit_gray.jpg)
:D
My earliest memories are of playing on this baby. Well, we did have an Atari before it. But this thing was the BOMB! Still is!
Oddly enough my earliest memory is playing Scramble on one of these and some formula one racing game on the Commodore 16+4.
I feel real ****ing old sometimes.
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The oldest OS i remember is DOS.....I remember the time when my father was skeptical of installing Windows 3.0 on the machines we sold to customers lol......
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Originally posted by Kalfireth
I'll see your Oric-1 and raise you a Dragon ;)
http://www.retro-trader.com/images/march03/DVC01742.JPG
My CAD lecturer (http://www.cis.strath.ac.uk/people/biography/dunc/) in second year worked on/for Dragon*, interestingly enough. Absolutely loathed MS and intel, as a matter of fact........
Anyway, i see your Dragon and raise you an acorn electron
(http://www.silicium.org/images/catalog/uk/acorn/electron.jpg)
Wrote the BIOS, apparently - http://www.dndata.com/dragond/History/Quotes/index.htm
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Well, I'm cheating here, cos I never owned one but...
(http://www.aqsx85.dsl.pipex.com/JupiterAce.jpg)
P43ar T3h 40RTH!!1!11! :lol:
Is it me, or is there something spookily Shivan about the Oric Atmos??? :nervous:
(http://www.aqsx85.dsl.pipex.com/Atmos.jpg)
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Hmm.... I underestimated the power of my grandfather's old computer. It didn't use and 8086 processor. 80186 :)
Here's a pic of the Tandy TRS-80 Model 2000:
(http://members.verizon.net/mlaferriere/images/2000front.jpg)
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LOL Looked and pretty much worked like room heaters :)
Good stuff :D
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Originally posted by Flipside
Everyone had a ZX Spectrum ;) I had one of those posh Amstrad ones with the black 'ergonomic' keyboards and a tape deck glued to the side :)
I still have mine. Ahhh the Spectrum +2. I occassionally boot up an emulator to play Ranarama to this day :D
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Cool! I thought no-one else had heard of that game! :)
I used to love the 'duels' with the necromancer, a clever idea for an 8-Bit game :)