Hard Light Productions Forums

Modding, Mission Design, and Coding => The Modding Workshop => Topic started by: Black Wolf on April 18, 2004, 12:50:13 pm

Title: Are ytou FREDding?
Post by: Black Wolf on April 18, 2004, 12:50:13 pm
I seem to be full of questions at the moment. Anyway, are you personally (not your campaign) presently involved in actively FREDding at all? I'm curious because it seems we've had an increase in modders lately, and a long time increase in campaigns being started, but missions (and campaigns being released) seem to be few and far between.

So, to get the ball rolling, Presently, I am actively working on two missions for 1 project and no single missions.

(NB - a half finished mission you started 6 months ago does not constitute actively :p (However, if you should start working on it again (and you should) then you'd be able to participate in this thread! How fun!)
Title: Are ytou FREDding?
Post by: kasperl on April 18, 2004, 01:10:08 pm
i was fighting with FRED, FSO, and the tables earlier, trying to get a 'roid pof from Flipside ingame.

no such luck, though, but that is probably due to me being an idiot. (read the siggy)
Title: Are ytou FREDding?
Post by: Taristin on April 18, 2004, 01:33:11 pm
I don't Fred.  It hates me, and I hate it. All I use it for is to set up test runs for various features that cannot be enabled with the cheat.

Me makes models.
Title: Are ytou FREDding?
Post by: adwight on April 18, 2004, 04:22:48 pm
I FRED, as you already know.  I can pretty much do anything with it as long as I take the time.
Title: Are ytou FREDding?
Post by: IceFire on April 18, 2004, 04:34:44 pm
BlackWater Ops

Working on Episode 3....Ace just finished Episode 2.  So we're almost done the major FREDding work.  Still lots ahead of us!
Title: Are ytou FREDding?
Post by: Lightspeed on April 18, 2004, 05:14:54 pm
*drumroll*

I FRED. :D
Title: Are ytou FREDding?
Post by: SadisticSid on April 18, 2004, 06:06:00 pm
I can FRED with the best of em. Shame I can't model. :)

*takes pride in the Paint-ified renderings of his Inferno missions*
Title: Are ytou FREDding?
Post by: Anaz on April 18, 2004, 09:48:24 pm
I can fred. I don't like to fred. I may be fredding soon. The Warcraft 3 world editor 0wnz fred.
Title: Are ytou FREDding?
Post by: Goober5000 on April 19, 2004, 04:41:32 am
I can FRED. :nod: I FRED for Fortunes of War, Silent Threat: Reborn, and Terran-Vasudan War Project.  Not actively, unfortunately.  I should be able to do a lot more after the semester is over.

You make a good point, Black Wolf... you should post an article on HLP 2.0 about it. ;) It seems that everyone who joins HLP wants to be a modeller, and barely anyone wants to FRED.  The problem is that missions, not models, are the lifeblood of the community.  We need a healthy cycle of campaigns being completed at least as fast as campaigns being started.

Remember what a commotion Blaise Russel caused by stepping onto the scene with not one but two completed campaigns?  We need more people like that. :)
Title: Are ytou FREDding?
Post by: Nico on April 19, 2004, 04:47:06 am
I JACK :p
Title: Are ytou FREDding?
Post by: Tiara on April 19, 2004, 05:06:15 am
Quote
Originally posted by Nico
I JACK :p

off?

*runs*

Anywayz, I FRED but I don't feel like reinstalling FreeSpace right now.
Title: Are ytou FREDding?
Post by: Nico on April 19, 2004, 05:12:13 am
Quote
Originally posted by Tiara

off?

That too :p
Title: Are ytou FREDding?
Post by: Xelion on April 19, 2004, 06:23:07 am
:lol:

Well I'm learning to use FRED2 again, does that count? Might have a few Freespace 2 (Not FSO) 'single missions' in a few weeks. :D
Title: Are ytou FREDding?
Post by: Setekh on April 19, 2004, 08:01:08 am
Quote
Originally posted by Goober5000
I can FRED. :nod: I FRED for Fortunes of War, Silent Threat: Reborn, and Terran-Vasudan War Project.  Not actively, unfortunately.  I should be able to do a lot more after the semester is over.

You make a good point, Black Wolf... you should post an article on HLP 2.0 about it. ;) It seems that everyone who joins HLP wants to be a modeller, and barely anyone wants to FRED.  The problem is that missions, not models, are the lifeblood of the community.  We need a healthy cycle of campaigns being completed at least as fast as campaigns being started.

Remember what a commotion Blaise Russel caused by stepping onto the scene with not one but two completed campaigns?  We need more people like that. :)


True story, Petrarch's recent effort was a pleasant surprise too. Perhaps our slogan of "bringing modders together" was too successful... ;) Or too narrow in its definition. Are Fredders modders too? :)
Title: Are ytou FREDding?
Post by: .::Tin Can::. on April 19, 2004, 09:34:45 am
I Heart FRED. It loves me, and is easy to learn... :D:yes:
Title: Are ytou FREDding?
Post by: Roy fokker on April 19, 2004, 09:40:26 am
i fred really active at the moment just first of episodes 1,2, and currently on 3 still a long more epsodes to do after this one all good most are complex need me to use my whole knowledge of fred plus using variables (i hate variables :( ) but still finding out new tricks from other fredders
Title: Are ytou FREDding?
Post by: .::Tin Can::. on April 19, 2004, 09:42:27 am
That reminds me... what are those "strings" and other such options that I never used before. I dont understand exactly... and karajorma had no idea either.
Title: Are ytou FREDding?
Post by: karajorma on April 19, 2004, 11:46:05 am
Quote
Originally posted by .::Tin Can::.
That reminds me... what are those "strings" and other such options that I never used before. I dont understand exactly... and karajorma had no idea either.


I didn't? Oh. I think I misunderstood the question at the time I probably thought you were on about the strings.tbl. :)

As far as I know there is very little use for String variables at the current time. If the SCP has fixed it up so that Strings can be output via messages or briefings I'll be very glad to hear it.

As for Fredding I'm rather inactive at the moment. Getting into modding was probably a big mistake for me because I was a very prolific FREDder before I got into it but I'm incredibly slow at modding and so as a result I tend to wait for a model before FREDding missions involving it. (If you're wondering where all those missions are they are part of my own personal campaign TMA).

When I do FRED however I really enjoy it. I completed a mission for MG about a month or so ago that I enjoyed working on a lot and I've got another one lined up that promises to be even more complex. I tend to find the more complicated a mission is the more I enjoy working on it :)

One reason why I stopped FREDding so much is probably due to the fact I rarely talk about it any more compared with modding. There is a definate corollation between my FREDding slow down and the demise of the VBB and it's excellent FREDding forum.

The other problem is that FREDding seems to be the least respected modding profession on this board. In fact Blaise is probably our only heavily respected FREDder.
 Unlike modding you can only get props from the wider comunity when you release a campaign. You can't show off a picture of your FREDding and have anyone tell you what's wrong with it. In the MG team we've noticed that almost every single member has branched out into another field of some sort, even the ones who were purely FREDders when we took them on.

Quote
Originally posted by Roy fokker
(i hate variables :( ) but still finding out new tricks from other fredders


I love them. My only problem with them is that I can't do enough with them as they are pretty limited in use.  Have a look at
this thread (http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php/topic,17130.0.html) if you want some to see some ideas for what I (and others) can do with them once they start being tied into other functions.
Title: Are ytou FREDding?
Post by: kasperl on April 19, 2004, 11:49:15 am
And all of that causes everyone to be so damn short of FREDders...
Title: Are ytou FREDding?
Post by: Shinobi on April 19, 2004, 01:21:56 pm
The problem with my FREDing is that I playtest a mission way too much. Even in changing the smallest thing I'll often absent mindedly load up freespace again, and if its a long mission that means I have to sit through all the previous stuff. I've still got alot to learn about Fred but hopefully if some *people*complete some *models* I'll be able to start again :)
Title: Are ytou FREDding?
Post by: kasperl on April 19, 2004, 01:39:22 pm
If you want something to do, come over to FSCZ, we have basic FREDding positions of the plenty,, and some more interesting stuff waiting to be done too.
Title: Are ytou FREDding?
Post by: .::Tin Can::. on April 19, 2004, 01:57:59 pm
Indeed, FREDing doesnt seem like much at first but if you want a quality mission it will at least cut a chunk out of your day due to its complexity and replaying the mission for miscoding or problems. For example, the Single Player Mission I released was about half an hour at the most, and I had to replay it through and though to check for problems. Then again, it can be an entertaining experience, being able to say "I propped all that up and it looks great". Especially tinkering with the nebulas. Then again, FREDing isnt all that hard to get into...
Title: Are ytou FREDding?
Post by: TopAce on April 19, 2004, 02:07:56 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Goober5000
...
You make a good point, Black Wolf... you should post an article on HLP 2.0 about it. ;) It seems that everyone who joins HLP wants to be a modeller, and barely anyone wants to FRED.  The problem is that missions, not models, are the lifeblood of the community.  ..
...


Not true. I love FRED, and I hate the sensitivity of models. A wrong step and your whole model ends in the recycle bin.

Quote
Originally posted by karajorma

...
The other problem is that FREDding seems to be the least respected modding profession on this board...
 


True.
You can clear your window with your 16 million poly-models if there is nobody who would place it in a mission.

Quote
Originally posted by Shinobi
The problem with my FREDing is that I playtest a mission way too much. Even in changing the smallest thing I'll often absent mindedly load up freespace again, and if its a long mission that means I have to sit through all the previous stuff. I've still got alot to learn about Fred but hopefully if some *people*complete some *models* I'll be able to start again :)


You should learn to see how things would work without running the game again and again. I learnt it. I place every ships, write all events/messages/briefings, and I only test after they are done. seeing a 'No debriefing data for mission' text would qualify me on a very negative way. Maybe background would be first thing to do after the first of the test runs.

By the way:
If the Star Wars conversion becomes rich in models, I would be able to release missions with four-five day delays, I promise. ;)
There is one thing I hate is that if I pass a mission to someone else except of me, it takes at least ten months till he says: 'I ran the mission, but I had to quit the briefing, because I was too busy.' So here is the key while projects don't go anywhere.
Title: Are ytou FREDding?
Post by: JR2000Z on April 19, 2004, 02:26:38 pm
I'm a decent FRED'er but I don't use it much anymore.
Title: Are ytou FREDding?
Post by: TopAce on April 19, 2004, 03:05:42 pm
Let me guess ... you prefer modelling instead. :)
Title: Are ytou FREDding?
Post by: SadisticSid on April 19, 2004, 04:05:53 pm
Quote
Originally posted by TopAce
You should learn to see how things would work without running the game again and again. I learnt it. I place every ships, write all events/messages/briefings, and I only test after they are done. seeing a 'No debriefing data for mission' text would qualify me on a very negative way. Maybe background would be first thing to do after the first of the test runs.


Other way around for me. I build a mission in stages and make sure the play dynamic works well instead of leaving it til later and having to make changes to the whole thing because X leads to Y and so on.

The problem I have with FREDing is that a lot of my concepts don't seem to execute in-game very well, or don't have sufficient atmosphere. After playing the BWO demo missions I've been tuning my skills to try and capture that same exquisite playability that I saw in them. Right now I throw away a lot of half-finished missions because of this, which does eat up quite a lot of time.
Title: Are ytou FREDding?
Post by: Havock on April 19, 2004, 04:17:38 pm
I occasionally bash something together to show to a friend what FS2 is good at.
they usually like the beams and flak.
Title: Are ytou FREDding?
Post by: Tiara on April 19, 2004, 04:22:38 pm
Wanna impress friends? Set a couple dozen Mjolnirs in a spherical formation and have them fire at the opposite Mjolnir. Tried it once and it came out quite... interesting :D
Title: Are ytou FREDding?
Post by: phreak on April 19, 2004, 04:27:27 pm
i did some missions for Inferno (before the plot was reworked) and a bunch for the Scroll of Atankharzim (which is on hold pending fso 3.6)
Title: Are ytou FREDding?
Post by: Knight Templar on April 19, 2004, 08:22:54 pm
KT no FRED in a while. KT be FREDing soon. You will like KT's FREDingness
Title: Are ytou FREDding?
Post by: Goober5000 on April 19, 2004, 09:29:16 pm
Does this mean we'll see the MindGames demo any time soon? ;)
Title: Are ytou FREDding?
Post by: c914 on April 20, 2004, 01:20:22 am
Quote
Originally posted by Tiara
Wanna impress friends? Set a couple dozen Mjolnirs in a spherical formation


:D
you say mission with Mjolnirs.
I've got one but here is ony 8 Mjolnir 4 Aeolus
4 corvetts about 4 wings of fighters ( in 2 waves ) and lots of shivans. ( 5 wings of bombers and  fighters in 2 waves 5 cruisers 1 Ravana 1 Demon 1 Sathanas )
This mission i've create to improve that defending with Mjolnirs suxx:D
Here are screns:
http://c914.republika.pl/ob2/screen00.GIF
http://c914.republika.pl/ob2/screen03.GIF
http://c914.republika.pl/ob2/screen07.GIF
http://c914.republika.pl/ob2/screen09.GIF
http://c914.republika.pl/ob2/screen10.GIF
http://c914.republika.pl/ob2/screen12.GIF
http://c914.republika.pl/ob2/screen14.GIF
http://c914.republika.pl/ob2/screen16.GIF
http://c914.republika.pl/ob2/screen21.GIF
http://c914.republika.pl/ob2/screen23.GIF
Title: Are ytou FREDding?
Post by: Black Wolf on April 20, 2004, 01:34:33 am
Quote
Originally posted by Goober5000
You make a good point, Black Wolf... you should post an article on HLP 2.0 about it. ;)


It's been sitting half finished on my computer for months - I may get around to posting it up one of these days.

Personally, I find my biggest problem with FRED is motivation. I think what happens is I start big, placing my scenery, setting up the main events etc. etc. - and then you spend at least several hours/days doing the little fiddly bits that don't actually change the misison as a whole all that much. Once the first few minutes of ship placing is over, the creative process is somewhat ended, and it becomes a far less artistic process, more, I dunno, industrial sort of. All you're really doing is placing enemy fighters, adjusting events, making minor changes that smooth out the mission. With the exception of maybe messages, the main points of the mission don't really change  from about half an hour in until you finish. By contrast, when you're modelling or texturing, things move fairly fast, change quickly - everything you do affects how the thing you're working on look - the entire process is a part of the artisitic process. For me personally, and I'm sure many others, that's a lot more fun.

I do, however, like writing, so I'll often spend ages making sure my pilot chatter, briefings, debrief etc. etc. are just right, though again, this is more of an artistic process than, say, setting waypoints or adding goals to various fighter wings.
Title: Are ytou FREDding?
Post by: karajorma on April 20, 2004, 04:32:13 am
Quote
Originally posted by Goober5000
Does this mean we'll see the MindGames demo any time soon? ;)


There are a couple of other missions besides the one KT is making for us in the demo but yeah. Hopefully that will mean the demo comes out soonish :)
Title: Are ytou FREDding?
Post by: TopAce on April 20, 2004, 09:55:02 am
Quote
Originally posted by Black Wolf


...
I do, however, like writing, so I'll often spend ages making sure my pilot chatter, briefings, debrief etc. etc. are just right, though again, this is more of an artistic process than, say, setting waypoints or adding goals to various fighter wings.


I also like writing messages/briefings if I have the idea to. Nothing would prevent me in writing a briefing of 6-7 stages in every mission if I were a native speaker.
Title: Are ytou FREDding?
Post by: J3Vr6 on April 20, 2004, 11:12:19 am
I like Fredding.  I was doing my own little missions and having fun with it til my old computer went sour.  Now I have my newer cmputer and want to try to continue those missions.  I'm swamped playing Deus Ex right now, though :p
Title: Are ytou FREDding?
Post by: Blaise Russel on April 20, 2004, 12:31:04 pm
*head swellage*

I, FRED.
Title: Are ytou FREDding?
Post by: Lightspeed on April 20, 2004, 01:55:49 pm
And you rock at it, too. :D
Title: Are ytou FREDding?
Post by: Gloriano on April 20, 2004, 02:13:16 pm
I been Trying fredding but I hate it But I still Try maybe in 2020 I Already know how FRED :D But I'am only beta tester and Idea helper
Title: Are ytou FREDding?
Post by: TopAce on April 21, 2004, 03:02:29 pm
FREDing is an ART!
Title: Are ytou FREDding?
Post by: Knight Templar on April 21, 2004, 08:08:03 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Blaise Russel
*head swellage*

I, FRED.


Like hell you do. :D
Title: Are ytou FREDding?
Post by: Roy fokker on April 22, 2004, 06:28:39 am
Quote
Originally posted by TopAce
FREDing is an ART!


you hit it right on the mark ace
Title: Are ytou FREDding?
Post by: karajorma on April 22, 2004, 06:41:36 am
Yeah. I agree 100% with TopAce on that one. FREDding is a skill that takes very little time to learn. In fact I learnt comparatively very little about how FRED works since about 2 months or so after I first used it.

What improves with time is not the technical know-how but the ability to make a good playable missions. That's why Battle of Endor type missions are so common amongst those new to FRED but rare from people who know it well.