Hard Light Productions Forums
Modding, Mission Design, and Coding => The Modding Workshop => Topic started by: JarC on April 22, 2004, 05:17:16 am
-
grmblaras&(*&#$(*&@$#*&#$
guys, I am this close to chucking the whole enchelada and freespace with it...
I have been tryin to get to grips with this braindead excuse of a modeler...TS 4.2 (and still looking for the 4.3 patch)
where can I find a step by step tutorial for superdummies?
not that I am one (although with regards to TS I am), but all those I found sofar, assume some basic modelling skills...and I got zilch...I have tried so many countless times to find any kind of logic in the menus...nothing...either my textures warp or turn flat gray, bu never ever can I get what I am looking for...
-
If the only problem you're having is with the texturing be warned that < TS5.0 had all kinds of problems with it's UV mapping. I frequently got warped textures with it too when applying cubic maps etc.
Your choices are to use the individual face mapping tools or to simply model in TS but use LithUnwrap to texture.
As for a super-basic tutorial, I did start one but never got around to finishing it. If you want to take a look you can find it here (http://homepage.ntlworld.com/karajorma/freespace/missilemod.html)
-
I could use a tutorial on how to use TrueSpace 3.2, because this program's method of editing is so strange I can't figure anything out. I can't figure out how to split faces, add nodes, etc... all I've managed to do was to move existing nodes around a bit (and even that was awkward) and to use those blob objects (which just plain suck anyway)
-
Try the polygon draw, add vertex and add edge tools. They should do what you want to do. :)
The tutorial I linked too is suitably basic for 3.2 but I think you already know how to do everything in it already :D
If you haven't already discovered it, Moonman's site (http://www.lunadude.com/rsrc_trueSpace.htm) is the best place I know of to find TS tutorials.
-
if you don't like it just use something else.
you don't need truespace to make fs2 models. You'll need it only for hierachy
-
I use MilkShape and can't find any free utils for making COB files
-
I am feeling bold too, gonna try some modelling.
if anyone has some Do's and Don'ts, feel free to post em.
-
hmmmm...this GMax sounds interresting...3dmax without renderer, and for free!? there's gotta be catch...probably weird fileformat that none of the others recognize...oohh..got to go to quake first...anyone experiences with this one?
-
I have had some experience playing with Gmax ( but use Max 6 for proper work ) and it isn't bad in itself. I did, however, have some problems with the Quake conversion thing. You have to go to MD3 ( or whatever it is ) for which there are a couple of plugin versions, and then convert again to get a COB that could be converted.
I haven't tried it in FS2, but I would guess there would still be a need to use TS to get the heirarchy right for conversion to a POF.
It's a good stepping stone to Max though.... the interface and working methods are just the same. You just are limited to the native Gmax format for saves, or through licensed export plugins. So, if you can crack the file conversion thing, it's worth the trouble to learn and should produce usable models.
As far as modelling goes, I would recommend:
1) Don't model in Truespace ... it makes my head hurt ;)
2) Don't texture in Truespace ... try juggling chainsaws blindfold instead...it's easier ;)
3) DO try and track down a copy of Lithunwrap. The freeware version before it went payware. It is the best mapping tool I have found. Anywhere. And that includes the one on 3D Max.
4) Lithunwrap imports a lot of formats and EXPORTS a COB file that TS will read in.
5) Only use TS for the final heirarchy with the Truview plugin.
6) Start with simple shapes, texture and import to POF. This will get you comfortable with the process steps. Then start making more complex shapes!
I have been going through just the same learning curve myself, after learning to do this stuff ages ago..and then forgetting just about everything I learnt!!! Trying to get back into the swing of things now though ;)
-
Hey ShadowPuppet, can we convince you to make a generic tutorial of the _workflow_ for making FSO models? You seem to have a reasonable idea of how to get the job done, and a workflow tutorial would be far more useful than a program specific tutorial :)
-
yeh, i already hate the TS interface, oh well.
I'm just using it to get the basics of modelling.
guess it's point, click and drag everywhere.
btw, how can i ALLIGN objects so, that they are actually straight?
-
Originally posted by ShadowPuppet
As far as modelling goes, I would recommend:
1) Don't model in Truespace ... it makes my head hurt ;)
2) Don't texture in Truespace ... try juggling chainsaws blindfold instead...it's easier ;)
3) DO try and track down a copy of Lithunwrap. The freeware version before it went payware. It is the best mapping tool I have found. Anywhere. And that includes the one on 3D Max.
I mostly agree with 2. Lith is a much better program to use for mapping. You might want to dabble with TS's texturing controls to learn the concepts of how UV mapping works though since unlike the freeware version of Lith you can see your results instantly. But for any serious work Lith is the place to go.
As for point 1 my advice is try all the freeware programs you can and see what you like. Don't slavishly follow the opinion of anyone who says TS is horrible but don't do the same for anyone who says it's great. Try it and see what you like and find easy to work with.
As for 3. Check my FAQ's modding section for a link to IPAndrews Ship Creation Guide. A copy of lithunwrap lurks within :D
-
i seriously do not see why everyone has problems with learning TS. i figured it out in no time.
-
Personally, I find TrueSpace simple. Too simple, as simple as it is unable to do flipping, which is essential sometimes. I tried GMax, but I had little patience for it. Somehow, I found motivation to return to TrueSpace. I haven't touched any other modelling programs since, which I am ashamed of. :nervous:
On a side note, I would like to learn making relatively good models, but I do not have idea how a ship I would do should look like.
-
you can flip, either with mirror tool or using the flip tool (in combination with editing axis position).
You just have problems to join different mirrored parts if you don't use ts6.x and the mirror tool, althought there are plugins that help a lot in this. And with FSO even if parts of the model aren't joined 99% it'll work flawlessy anyway
-
I have TS3.2. I haven't found such tool.
[EDIT] Haven't said anything. I found it after 30 seconds. :)
-
btw there are some things that Lith can't do, which annoy me a lot.
In lith the planar uv is fixed on x,y or z axis, which is a big limitation since the only alternative is to use face uvmap, which is useless for groups of faces if you want those faces to maintain the relative position.
In TS the planar uvmap is automatically oriented to the selected faces
Secondary, it screw the proportions with cylindric uvmaps, and you can't scale/deform the uvs (try to map smoothed pyramid with the nose cutted....)
Sometimes I find it easyer to apply some uvmaps in TS, and then organize in Lith
-
ShadowDrakken ... I can certainly try! I am having to re-learn everything I thought I knew, so righting it down as I go is no big headache! Might help me too ;)
Anyway...as far as modelling software goes, this thread has one VERY valuable nugget of information.
The best tool to use is ENTIRELY a matter of personal taste :D
Having played about with a LOT of different modelling tools in my time, I can try to add some unbiased 'opinions' ;) I have used :
Truespace 3.2, Truespace 5, Truespace 6, Lightwave 7, 3DS R4, 3DS Max 3, 3DS Max 4.2, 3DS Max 6, Multigen Creator and Nendo.
There are different styles of modelling which suit different approaches. Some tools, like...say... Lightwave ... are geared up to work in a certain way. It's interface I found messy....until I started getting to know the shortcut keys... when it becomes so easy.
Truespace ( certainly in V6 anyway ) made manipulation of faces and scaling a lot simpler with little 'gizmos' which meant you used teh menu's and odd icon structure less intrusive. In defence of TS...it's boolean functions are a lot easier to use with fewer required parameters to enter and click on!
My personal approach to building stems from building plane models for a number of years. These are all basically made up of extrusions.... so I like a modeller which has simple and easy to use extrusion features. Also...I have always been a mesh-modeller... so all the fancy 'meta-balls' and 'quad patches' don't appeal.
I learnt using AC3D ... which is around £25 for the full licensed version and offers a good, solid basic modeller.
FREE MODELLERS :
Blender .... really didn't like it. Really couldn't understand it!!
Milkshape 3D ... not bad, but mine was quite an old basic version. Shareware with 30 day limit unless you buy.
Wings 3D ... gave this one a spin, and it's really not bad. Sort of like Nendo.. you start with a simple shape, and extrude faces all over the place. Has a 'normal extrude' which I liked :)
3D Canvas .... has potential in the free version. Might explore this one a bit more
Anim8or ... interesting. Does some things quite well...but other things it just doesn't seem to do at all!!! Could not get to grips with UV mapping in this at all.
FORMAT CONVERTERS
3D Exploration. Old versions were OK, but newer versions are expiring shareware. GEt an old one if you can find it! Works well, and is proabably worth buying if you are doing a lot of this sort of thing :)
Lithunwrap .... does a good job as a file converter!
Crossroads .... good as far as it goes.... but UV mapping often doesn't survive.
-
Oooohhh....dunno if it is posted separately, dunno if it is in any download of it, but I just found a TBP-Extra's in the tbp_core_1 downloads over at 3Ddownloads.com and it has this 'idiot-proof' tutorial for TS4.2 on texturing....very nice...even explains the diff between the various UV projections...thanks to Skullar
-
Originally posted by TopAce
Personally, I find TrueSpace simple. Too simple, as simple as it is unable to do flipping
(http://img36.photobucket.com/albums/v109/Carltheshivan/pst02.jpg)
-
Originally posted by Carl
(http://img36.photobucket.com/albums/v109/Carltheshivan/pst02.jp)
shhh, he ups and changes the pic I was referring to...no point keeping my reply intact then...
-
both me and carl interpreted it like if he was asking for mirro, but now I realize that we may be wrong, and that he was asking just for a flipping faces tool
-
....and suppose i want to add a "cavern" into an object?
like the hangar of the orion (just an example)
-
Originally posted by Havock
....and suppose i want to add a "cavern" into an object?
like the hangar of the orion (just an example)
The easiest way is simply to extrude the face where you want to put the hole and then move the end of the new extrusion inside the model.
-
Originally posted by JarC
where can I find a step by step tutorial for superdummies?
Step 1 - Uninstall Truespace
Step 2 - Do not install illegal version of Max that you could probably download and crack from somewhere - instead, buy it legally, then install it... Yes. Or use GMax.
Step 3 - Read the GMax tutorials.
Voila. Step by step guide to mastering truespace.
-
bah I doubt that whoever is able to master any aspect of GMAX needed to build an fs2 isn't able to master the same in TS, and viceversa...it's just a matter of wish, time, practice, experimentation, patience
-
Blackwolf.... you can't uninstall Truespace!
The last step for ANY modelling for FS2 has to be creating a Truespace format file ( cob ) unless someone knows of a plugin for any other modeller.
A handy tip for anyone wishing to use expensive modelling tools without paying HUGE amounts of money.... Most high end modelling tools offer a reduced price 'educational' package. Believe me...it saved me a fortune getting Max. One downside... you CANNOT model for money. The licence is strictly non-profit use.
Also...older versions of modellers can be picked up on e-bay for sensible money. Be careful though...old versions of Max used a hardware copy protection 'dongle'. I saw a copy being sold without it, which would have been a complete waste of money!!! Can pick up some bargains that way!
-
Render-Lab (http://www.render-lab.com/) has some TS tutes but they're only for TS v5/6.
Since where on the topic of TS and I have such limited skills, how do u rotate a turret?
-
I cover how to create rotating turrets in my FAQ.
-
Kara I didn't ask how to create one, I'm asking how to rotate one only for renders, but I gather this tutorial will help ;) thanks
-
Originally posted by Carl
(http://img36.photobucket.com/albums/v109/Carltheshivan/pst02.jpg)
If you had read my second post, you would have known I have found that. :D
-
Originally posted by Xelion
Kara I didn't ask how to create one, I'm asking how to rotate one only for renders, but I gather this tutorial will help ;) thanks
Oh. That's simple. :D Click on the object, go down the hierarcy and select the turret (or just select it using trueview), open the object info box and play about with the rotation values :D
Good to see you're getting into the habit of rotating turrets this early in your rendering career :D
-
Thanks :D. Well I wanted to get started the right way. I just don't want to hear those same complaints I heard a long time ago, how the turret was always in the original position and wasn't rotated to a different angle. :p
-
well, i just tried to fiddle around with truespace for a bit, just for the heck of it:
first attempt after some inserting of cubes, kick em together and well.
GTRD woooo
Retina Destroyer.
http://members.lycos.nl/durandalarw/TSschip.JPG
the "nose" is suffering from bad geometry or something, i'm working on it :p
just started adding detail (like the hangar thingies to the right and stuff)
and truespace is not nice to work with, that's for sure :p
-
The basic shape is quite nice. Just needs detail. A LOT of detail :)
-
Originally posted by karajorma
The basic shape is quite nice. Just needs detail. A LOT of detail :)
busy with that.
just a few questions:
- how can i make multiple engine exhausts of the same size?
(copy & paste?)
- how can i solve the rather annoying glitch in the front.
design doesn't look really high tech to me, personally.
perhaps some far-pre-great-war-relic.or i could of course completely refit the design and make it an installation.
-
Its rather a naval anti-air ship than a spaceship. This is not a critic, it is merely my opinion.