Hard Light Productions Forums

Off-Topic Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: Sandwich on April 25, 2004, 07:11:26 am

Title: BitTorrent?
Post by: Sandwich on April 25, 2004, 07:11:26 am
I've been wondering about the modus operandi of this network.

I have a 1,544/96 D/U ADSL connection, which means that at my max download speed (not through any p2p network), 200 kilobytes per second, my upload speed is almost completely occupied with supporting that download - reporting on packets received, requesting the next bit, etc. The slightest upload aside from that slows my download speed down alot.

So, back to BT. From what I understand, it's a tit-for-tat system. If you upload 100kb to someone, you also willl have downloaded 100kb from someone, no more, no less. You want to download at 150KBps? You need to upload at 150KBps.

Is this true, or did I completely misunderstand the system?
Title: BitTorrent?
Post by: Janos on April 25, 2004, 07:13:35 am
No no no.

If you download a lot and upload a little, your download rates go down. You CAN download 40 Megs and upload only 1,2, but it takes time.
Title: BitTorrent?
Post by: SadisticSid on April 25, 2004, 07:16:36 am
No, not a tit for tat system - at least for me - I've got a 1024/256 connection, and have limited the upload to 6KB/s max, and often get 120k downloads regardless. However, if there's someone uploading generously he'll be treated to a higher priority for downloading, I think.
Title: BitTorrent?
Post by: Sandwich on April 25, 2004, 07:30:11 am
Ahhhh... very good to know. So what if I allow only like 1kb upload during the daytime, but pump it up to 8-10kb at night, when the net's not being used? Will that average out into a decent download priority throughout the day and night, or is it a moment-by-moment thing?
Title: BitTorrent?
Post by: kode on April 25, 2004, 07:33:20 am
yes, it averages out over time.

but mostly it depends on how many other peers there are for the particular file/s you're downloading. the more, the better.
Title: BitTorrent?
Post by: Thorn on April 25, 2004, 10:40:19 am
Quote
Originally posted by Sandwich
Ahhhh... very good to know. So what if I allow only like 1kb upload during the daytime, but pump it up to 8-10kb at night, when the net's not being used? Will that average out into a decent download priority throughout the day and night, or is it a moment-by-moment thing?

If you're using a firewall, make sure you have the proper port mapped to your machine. Cante remember what one exactly, its on the site somewhere. If you dont, it will default to port 80 or something like that. Slow. As. Hell.
Title: BitTorrent?
Post by: kode on April 25, 2004, 10:49:06 am
ports 6881 and up, iirc.
Title: BitTorrent?
Post by: Kazan on April 25, 2004, 11:01:11 am
i hate bit torrent
Title: BitTorrent?
Post by: kode on April 25, 2004, 11:09:26 am
Quote
Originally posted by Kazan
i hate bit torrent


well, I hate potato salad, so I just don't eat it.
Title: BitTorrent?
Post by: Sandwich on April 25, 2004, 11:10:05 am
Thanks for the "information", Kaz. Care to enlighten us as to why? :p

Thorn, you mean just for BT, right?
Title: BitTorrent?
Post by: Rictor on April 25, 2004, 11:17:55 am
ports 6881-6889 I think.

I've tried and failed to open the correct ports on my router, so I'm stuck with slow downloads.

But I've been using BT for like 2 years and I love it.
Title: BitTorrent?
Post by: Kazan on April 25, 2004, 11:26:06 am
Sandwich: slow, no ability to administrate connection options, no details about progress, terrible performance
Title: BitTorrent?
Post by: Tiara on April 25, 2004, 11:38:52 am
I agree with Kaz on this one (what?). Besides, I've never found a thing I couldn't download with a P2P program orthe conventional way. You just have to know where to look ;)
Title: BitTorrent?
Post by: Rictor on April 25, 2004, 11:40:11 am
have you tried a more advanced client, like Shad0ws or Azreus (sp?). They have tons more options than the defualt. The speed shouldn't be that bad unless you're behind a firewall with unopened ports, and even then...I don't know if you're expecting like 100 kb/s, but BT is roughly the same speed as other p2p applications I've used.
Title: BitTorrent?
Post by: DragonClaw on April 25, 2004, 11:46:20 am
Quote
Originally posted by Kazan
Sandwich: slow, no ability to administrate connection options, no details about progress, terrible performance


There's a multitude of alternate bittorrent programs, that have a ton of options. I personally use ABC bittorrent, which allows you to manage multiple files at the same time, each with their own max upload/download settings, as well as max number of peers to connect to, and priority settings.
Title: BitTorrent?
Post by: Sandwich on April 25, 2004, 12:29:53 pm
Ideally....*sigh* ...I can't wait for quantum computing. All you'll have to do is click on a file, and it will be downloaded instantly via quantum tunneling and advanced prediction methods. It won't even need to use any bandwidth. :p
Title: BitTorrent?
Post by: Tiara on April 25, 2004, 01:08:41 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Rictor
have you tried a more advanced client, like Shad0ws or Azreus (sp?). They have tons more options than the defualt. The speed shouldn't be that bad unless you're behind a firewall with unopened ports, and even then...I don't know if you're expecting like 100 kb/s, but BT is roughly the same speed as other p2p applications I've used.

You should try Direct Connect. They have hunderds of hubs (from which dozens share Terabyte+ of files) and you have different types of hubs (anime and sci-fi being the largest). You can choose from who you download. You can see the connection the person you download from has.

I've downloaded the entire Enterprise series from there (at a special hub) at a 70-100 kb/s d/l rate. And this was on my laptop which has a wireless cable connection and not the T3 one.

I'm currently downloading The Life of Brian at 101 kb/s :D
Title: BitTorrent?
Post by: kasperl on April 25, 2004, 01:11:51 pm
why are you downloading TLoB? It's a great movie, but you should have it on VHS, or ripped on a DVD or something. It has been on TV quite a few times by now.
Title: BitTorrent?
Post by: Tiara on April 25, 2004, 01:18:44 pm
Quote
Originally posted by kasperl
why are you downloading TLoB? It's a great movie, but you should have it on VHS, or ripped on a DVD or something. It has been on TV quite a few times by now.

It's a DVD rip which I'm going to burn.... errm... am I even allowed to discuss this here? If not, gimme a sign and I'll delete ie. :p
Title: BitTorrent?
Post by: Martinus on April 25, 2004, 01:23:34 pm
[color=66ff00]Actually I think that bittorrent is one of the most impressive and useful ideas I've seen in a long time. I get excellent speeds, I can define how much I want to download/upload and the rate, it's got tiny memory requirements (except when verifying a file, which in itself is an excellent feature) and you can get lots of stuff that the likes of the Kazaa network just isn't good for.

Bittorrent is my friend, I invite him around to my place all the time. ;)
[/color]
Title: BitTorrent?
Post by: Rictor on April 25, 2004, 02:05:47 pm
I have DC++, but never use it for stuff that I can find on suprnova or elsewhere. I have gotten quite a few things from DC++, most notable the WoW Alpha (which took like 4 days to download and lasted as long on my computer before it got deleted) :D:D

I am currently trying my hand at EMule, becuase there are some documentaries I'de like to download from this one place, but  I'm a complete newb at it. If someone has a basic EMule FAQ or How-To guide, I'de appreciate a link.

I tried opening the ports on my router, but apparently if you choose to open ports, you must specifcy ALL ports that need to be opened (all the normal ones) in addition to the new ones. So, if you want to add any new ports to open, you have to also have a list of all the ones that are open by defualt. Otherwise, Internet no worky. This makes no sense to me. Why can't it just be assumed I want all the standard ports open, and then just specify the extra ones I need. By any chance, does anyone here have an Asante router?
Title: BitTorrent?
Post by: karajorma on April 25, 2004, 03:10:03 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Rictor
I am currently trying my hand at EMule, becuase there are some documentaries I'de like to download from this one place, but  I'm a complete newb at it. If someone has a basic EMule FAQ or How-To guide, I'de appreciate a link.


http://www.slyck.com/edonkey2k.php?page=3
Title: BitTorrent?
Post by: WMCoolmon on April 25, 2004, 04:29:14 pm
Bittorrent = ultimate dl program idea. Not much load on servers, nice dl speed (Hello, 300 k/s...what are you doing tonight?), plenty of info available if you use Azureus, and the best implementation of communism yet. Crap, did I say that out loud? :nervous:
Title: BitTorrent?
Post by: Rictor on April 25, 2004, 04:39:36 pm
300k/s? Where are you downloading from, and for that matter whats your connection? The only time I ever get 100k/s+ speeds if when I downloading a really popular demo from Filerush, and even then only rarely. I usually average 5-20k/s on normal downloads...

thanks for the link kara, much appreciated.
Title: BitTorrent?
Post by: WMCoolmon on April 25, 2004, 04:51:30 pm
It was a while back, so I'm not sure...I usually get less than that.
Title: BitTorrent?
Post by: Janos on April 25, 2004, 05:02:32 pm
I use Shad0w's Exp Build, never got the Azureus work well with XP. Yes, I am a lazy bastard, and often get quite pissed off when programs require several dozen other downloads just to install properly.

BTW, I can now hear a Little Crake into my apartment, whoa. :cool:
Title: BitTorrent?
Post by: Thorn on April 25, 2004, 05:17:30 pm
I downloaded Linspire at about 350 using BT...
Title: BitTorrent?
Post by: Setekh on April 25, 2004, 07:07:39 pm
Quote
Originally posted by WMCoolmon
and the best implementation of communism yet...


[cheka]
*ticks off Coolmon on the list for loyal-to-the-state*
[/cheka]
Title: BitTorrent?
Post by: mikhael on April 25, 2004, 11:12:32 pm
I love BitTorrent, especially using Azureus. If you have Azureus (and I think a few others now) you can 'super seed' your torrents, meaning that you preferentially allow connections from the fastest clients, and spreading the parts among those fast clients. That serves double duty: you get the torrent out faster overall and your number of sources for each individual chunk goes up faster.

For the record, its not a 'tit for tat' system. You can turn off file uploads entirely and just leech and it doesn't change your ability to download--unless the tracker admin happens to notice your ratio is low and bans you. Edonkey, I believe, is the one that throttles you to a slow speed at the beginning of a download and speeds up as you share more of the file back out. I dislike forced egalatarianism, myself. I consider it rather rank hypocrisy.

Most of Kaz's complaints are directly related, I think to useing the 'reference' client, not a fully featured client.

My pipe is ~3000/64, according to the speed tests (go cable :/). I have no problems pulling anywhere from 25k/s to 150k/s on any single download, and with a Azureus, I usually have a load around 250 down, 25 up (anything over 25 seems to choke web browsing).
Title: BitTorrent?
Post by: Bobboau on April 25, 2004, 11:29:14 pm
well I'm getting 24 and 4 getting the latest P&T Bull**** currently, I guess I should try these other clients.
Title: BitTorrent?
Post by: WMCoolmon on April 26, 2004, 01:00:04 am
Hmm, well, I'm getting about 340 k/s downloading from the Animatrix site with Firefox...maybe my connection is just really, really good. :drevil:

"Neo...use the Source, Neo"
Title: BitTorrent?
Post by: Thorn on April 26, 2004, 11:34:56 am
Quote
Originally posted by mikhael
For the record, its not a 'tit for tat' system. You can turn off file uploads entirely and just leech and it doesn't change your ability to download--unless the tracker admin happens to notice your ratio is low and bans you. Edonkey, I believe, is the one that throttles you to a slow speed at the beginning of a download and speeds up as you share more of the file back out. I dislike forced egalatarianism, myself. I consider it rather rank hypocrisy.


I've been trying out that Direct Connect thing too... same deal. A lot of channels will kick you if you arent sharing anything. One hub I tried to join wont let you in if your share is under 20 gigs. ****ing bull****. I dont have 20 gigs of stuff to share.
Title: BitTorrent?
Post by: Martinus on April 26, 2004, 11:46:36 am
[color=66ff00]Indeed Thorn, some channels do have a remarkably unrealistic share requirement.

I use Shad0w's BT client for great justice as they say. ;) Works great for me and I often have to make sure it's not maxing my DL rate so that I can surf and the like.

Good to know that so many here at HLP are using P2P software totally legally.
Ahem. :lol:
[/color]
Title: BitTorrent?
Post by: kasperl on April 26, 2004, 11:49:42 am
and oddly enough, setting up a DC Hub didn't work.....
Title: BitTorrent?
Post by: Bobboau on April 26, 2004, 11:51:17 am
you could just make a few 5 gig files of junk
Title: BitTorrent?
Post by: Martinus on April 26, 2004, 11:51:41 am
[color=66ff00]Yeah kas, forgot about that little idea. All the phat pipe ppl were the ones who thought it wasn't a great idea ironically.

Anywho, there's always IRC and DCC. :)
[/color]
Title: BitTorrent?
Post by: Bobboau on April 26, 2004, 11:56:51 am
just did some math, with a 8 bit bmp you'd need about 32768x32768 to get a 1 gig file
Title: BitTorrent?
Post by: Thorn on April 26, 2004, 12:20:16 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Bobboau
you could just make a few 5 gig files of junk

I shared my 2 gig page file....
Title: BitTorrent?
Post by: Bobboau on April 26, 2004, 12:35:49 pm
I wonder if that's such a good idea
Title: BitTorrent?
Post by: Rictor on April 26, 2004, 12:39:17 pm
I shared my installed Games folder, my Program Files folder. Also, by downloaded files folder, basically anything to up my share size. Just about the only useful thing I have shared is like 7 gigs of music.
Title: BitTorrent?
Post by: Janos on April 26, 2004, 01:06:28 pm
I usually share my ~20 Gig music folder, my mixed movies/porn folder and some really stupid pics ("a donkey.. with oat!").

No one downloads anything from me, ever.
Title: BitTorrent?
Post by: kode on April 26, 2004, 01:32:19 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Rictor
I shared my installed Games folder, my Program Files folder. Also, by downloaded files folder, basically anything to up my share size. Just about the only useful thing I have shared is like 7 gigs of music.


which is why direct connect is utter crap.
Title: BitTorrent?
Post by: mikhael on April 26, 2004, 01:44:00 pm
That's another thing I like about Bit torrent. I don't have to share anything on my machine but the torrents I have currently active.