Hard Light Productions Forums

Modding, Mission Design, and Coding => The Modding Workshop => Topic started by: Col. Fishguts on April 26, 2004, 04:13:15 pm

Title: Bomber concept (piccie inside)
Post by: Col. Fishguts on April 26, 2004, 04:13:15 pm
Hi folks. I finally found some time to model some concept art I made a while ago...and well, here's the result.
This is just a 3 hour job for testing how it looks. It's rather low poly, but I intend to do a high-poly version of this. However, before starting the high-poly version I'd like some feedback from you guys, since I think it's still missing something.

(http://n.ethz.ch/student/ebuerli/download/GTB_concept.jpg)

Some backgound info: This is supposed to be a fast, 2 seated strike bomber with big afterburner capacity.
Something that goes in fast, punches a hole trough the defending fighter screen, delivers its payload and gets out quick enough to survive. Actually how the Athena was intended to be....but this time with real bombs.
It's basically a big honking bomb bay with a rather small fighter built around it. The big missile bank can carry only 2 Cyclops torps. There is a second very small missile bank on top of the main hull, which can carry a few Harpoons, in addition to the 3 primaries on the left flank.

So, watcha thinkin' ?
Title: Bomber concept (piccie inside)
Post by: karajorma on April 26, 2004, 04:17:07 pm
Nice. The cockpit is a little bland though. Maybe it just needs textures but it's a little blah at the moment. Over all though :yes:
Title: Bomber concept (piccie inside)
Post by: mikhael on April 26, 2004, 04:30:35 pm
Someone crossed a Dragon with a Harrier! ;)

It looks pretty good, but I can't help but think you're throwing away polygons on the gun rounding that could be used better smoothing out the wings, secondary pod, or fuselage.
Title: Bomber concept (piccie inside)
Post by: Flipside on April 26, 2004, 04:34:56 pm
I like the model, but through no fault of Col. Fishguts, I'm inclined to think of 'Foghorn' when I look at that underwing pod for some reason ;)
Title: Bomber concept (piccie inside)
Post by: Taristin on April 26, 2004, 04:40:00 pm
I have a few little problems with the mesh, but overall it's an interesting design. :yes:

I do, however, think that the 'foghorn' goes in way to deep. It shouldn't be that deep. It's probably why Flipside thinks it's a horn.
Title: Bomber concept (piccie inside)
Post by: Nico on April 26, 2004, 04:42:41 pm
Quote
Originally posted by mikhael
Someone crossed a Dragon with a Harrier! ;)

It looks pretty good, but I can't help but think you're throwing away polygons on the gun rounding that could be used better smoothing out the wings, secondary pod, or fuselage.


I agree.

Don't dig much the assymetrical weapon setup, but that's just me.
Title: Bomber concept (piccie inside)
Post by: Col. Fishguts on April 26, 2004, 04:54:48 pm
Quote
Originally posted by mikhael
Someone crossed a Dragon with a Harrier! ;)

It looks pretty good, but I can't help but think you're throwing away polygons on the gun rounding that could be used better smoothing out the wings, secondary pod, or fuselage.


I know, I know.....bit as I said in my first post, this is just  "concept art" to show the basic shapes. I plan to make a proper high-poly version of it, with smooth hull and wings, and reasonable facecount on the guns:D .
As for the asymmetrical weapons...well that was pretty much the innitial idea, which made the do the whole thing at all....so it will stay that way
:p

btw...can someone point me to a FAQ with the FS2 guidelines for modeling, since I read somewhere that models not intentionally built for FS2 will cause huge problems when converting.

EDIT: Oh, and the foghorn...haven't looked at it that way..hehe. But in the final version, it will look more like the bomb bay on the medusa.
Title: Bomber concept (piccie inside)
Post by: JarC on April 26, 2004, 04:59:33 pm
Nice! that looks similar to what I am wanting to do with the Ulysses. If I ever acquire enough skill that is...;)
Title: Bomber concept (piccie inside)
Post by: Nico on April 26, 2004, 05:24:01 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Col. Fishguts
As for the asymmetrical weapons...well that was pretty much the innitial idea, which made the do the whole thing at all....so it will stay that way


I just think it would be better with a central torpedo launcher and two primary pods, coz now to me it just looks unbalanced, but I didn't ask you to change it or anything.
Title: Bomber concept (piccie inside)
Post by: karajorma on April 27, 2004, 02:50:28 am
Quote
Originally posted by Col. Fishguts
btw...can someone point me to a FAQ with the FS2 guidelines for modeling, since I read somewhere that models not intentionally built for FS2 will cause huge problems when converting.


If you're building for HTL a lot of those problems go away because the game triangulates the model after loading it.  IIRC the only major ones you have to worry about are having a polygon with more than 20 sides or a vertex which is part of 20 polygons.

If you want more modelling help my own FAQ has links to several other tutorials and the [Wiki][/Wiki] also has a lot of modelling stuff on it.

As for the asymetrical nature of the ship I like it :) Might make it a bit of a ***** to aim properly though.
Title: Bomber concept (piccie inside)
Post by: Col. Fishguts on April 27, 2004, 05:56:11 am
Ah...thanks, your FAQ is pretty damn neat. The Wiki is not very informative when it comes to moedling questions, maybe you should put some stuff from your FAQ in the Wiki....or post a big fat link to your site.
Title: Bomber concept (piccie inside)
Post by: Taristin on April 27, 2004, 07:34:00 am
Almost scary how much this, and Nico's comments describe a concept drawing I have stored away somewhere...
Title: Bomber concept (piccie inside)
Post by: Black Wolf on April 27, 2004, 09:29:56 am
That is awesome - I love it :) It looks very freespacey, but at the same time unique and interesting. I love how a few extra details - the various connectors and things around the ship - make it appear built rather than modelled. When you've finished it, are you going to need a texturer?
Title: Bomber concept (piccie inside)
Post by: Beowulf on April 27, 2004, 05:55:26 pm
I like it! Looks good. Some wrinkles need to be worked out but overall... :yes:
Title: Bomber concept (piccie inside)
Post by: Corsair on April 27, 2004, 08:03:28 pm
I like the asymmetrical design...although the bomb bay bugs me. In all of the pictures except for the front and back views, it screams "jet engine!" at me.
Title: Bomber concept (piccie inside)
Post by: Jetmech Jr. on April 27, 2004, 08:44:33 pm
looks good, but ive always hated asymmetrical fighter designs. on smallcraft it just looks ungainly.
Title: Bomber concept (piccie inside)
Post by: Col. Fishguts on April 28, 2004, 05:12:59 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Black Wolf
.... When you've finished it, are you going to need a texturer?


I'll try to texture it myself...but if I should fail miserably (might happen), I'll come back to you, thanks.
Title: Bomber concept (piccie inside)
Post by: ShadowDrakken on April 28, 2004, 06:09:39 pm
pretty nice, I agree that the asymetry is a bit awkward on it though.  I can visualize it symetrical and it still looks great ;)
Title: Bomber concept (piccie inside)
Post by: Setekh on April 29, 2004, 10:27:52 am
It's a great thing that you're playing around with atypical designs. I'm not too keen on this implementation of asymmetry either, but I think it's important that you give it a go. Keep modelling! :yes:
Title: Bomber concept (piccie inside)
Post by: Col. Fishguts on April 29, 2004, 04:27:21 pm
Thanks for the feedback guys. The asymmetrical setup will stay, it is supposed to look a bit clumsy, as a price for the bombing capacity in a small fighter.
I tried some symmetrical weapon layouts and didn't like them very much. Maybe I'll do a heavier version later with two bomb bays and symmetric primaries...

And for the viewing pleasure, here's a pic from MAX.
I started with the high-polyfication, ignore the colors and the jpg artefacts.

(http://n.ethz.ch/student/ebuerli/download/GTB_wip01.jpg)
Title: Bomber concept (piccie inside)
Post by: ShadowDrakken on April 29, 2004, 05:00:46 pm
I see a lot of wasted polygons there... a flat surface need only have 2 triangles, not 3 polys like that.  If they were curved then it would make more sense

My idea for a symetrical one would be to put 1 laser each side tucked in the armpit of the wing and the 3rd under the nose, but linked as a single weapon in the weapon loadout screen.  Then take the bombbay and break it into 2 smaller ones (one each side).  Looks good in my mind's eye anyway ;)
Title: Bomber concept (piccie inside)
Post by: Col. Fishguts on April 29, 2004, 05:11:13 pm
Ok, ignore the wasted polys on the top too, at least for the moment.
The dorsal/ventral lines aren't cleaned out yet, since I don't know yet how many faces I need there.
I want to pluck Nico's awesome cockpit in there (2 of them actually)
Title: Bomber concept (piccie inside)
Post by: Corsair on April 29, 2004, 08:03:11 pm
What's the big red thing really close to the camera in that new picture?
Title: Bomber concept (piccie inside)
Post by: mikhael on April 29, 2004, 10:22:44 pm
That would be the "real" version of the model, I think, Corsair.

The first version was a draft, now he's working on the final version.
Title: Bomber concept (piccie inside)
Post by: Bobboau on April 29, 2004, 10:27:27 pm
for the record, 'waisted' polys can signifigantly improve the lighting quality on models
Title: Bomber concept (piccie inside)
Post by: WMCoolmon on April 29, 2004, 10:57:24 pm
Nif-tay. It doesn't look too pretty but it's nice to see an assymetrical design once in awhile. It might make a good pirate ship - an "ugly". ;)
Title: Bomber concept (piccie inside)
Post by: Trivial Psychic on April 30, 2004, 12:49:14 am
I'm guessing by the supporting strut on the 3 barrel cannon, that it won't be a gattling gun style with a rotating sub-model.
Title: Bomber concept (piccie inside)
Post by: Col. Fishguts on April 30, 2004, 03:53:54 am
Quote
Originally posted by mikhael
That would be the "real" version of the model, I think, Corsair.

The first version was a draft, now he's working on the final version.


Yes indeed, somebody give a cookie to this man.

@Trivial Psychic: No rotating gun barrels, I think. Although the exact details of the weapons aren't layed out yet.

@Bob: I'll keep that in mind, and maybe some of the wasted polygons will stay.
Title: Bomber concept (piccie inside)
Post by: Col. Fishguts on May 06, 2004, 08:46:40 am
Update:

(http://n.ethz.ch/student/ebuerli/download/GTB_WIP03.jpg)

1036 polys so far
At the moment I'm trying to figure out how to use LithUnwrap, so I can slap some textures on it.
Title: Bomber concept (piccie inside)
Post by: Unknown Target on May 06, 2004, 11:01:42 am
The bottom version looks very good.
The three main problems with your design, however, are as follows:

1) Too many open spaces. An asymetric design should look solid. Those spindly machine guns and huge missile pod balanced by those itty bitty arms are just too flimsy.

2) Unbalanced. Yes, to make a good asymetric design, you have to balance it. A (relatively) thin, long object should be accompanied by some sort of short, fat object on the other side.

3) That top fin just throws it off. Make two of them, and place them on the top of those engine pod thingies. If you want to keep the third one, go ahead, but make it smaller.
Title: Bomber concept (piccie inside)
Post by: ionia23 on May 06, 2004, 11:10:11 am
Actually, I like the first design the best.  That huge bay on the right side of the bomber, perfect for a Harbinger.

*thinks*

That's it!  Ursas were the only thing that would carry them, but they were completely unmanoeverable, lame top speed, blah blah.

A strike bomber with the speed of, say, an Erinyes that can carry one harbinger, a few harpoons, and only one firing system with limited manoeverabiility.  You get firepower and speed, but not much else.  Good for suicide runs.
Title: Bomber concept (piccie inside)
Post by: Unknown Target on May 06, 2004, 11:12:25 am
This thing looks too sleek to be such a fat and unmaneuverable bomber. If you're following standard FS designs, that should either be a light bomber (like he said), or a heavy fighter. Think something like the Artemis.

Also, craft designed specifically for suicide runs ALSO aren't part of GTVA design docs, even though they may be put into suicidal situations.
Title: Bomber concept (piccie inside)
Post by: Black Wolf on May 06, 2004, 11:12:45 am
Definitely. Without the Massive bay and the three barelled gun, it's lost what made it unique, and a bomber, really.
Title: Bomber concept (piccie inside)
Post by: Unknown Target on May 06, 2004, 11:14:09 am
You can still have a massive bay, but not something that's seems so...out of place with the rest of the design. And the minigun should stay, just add more barrels and have less open space between each of the bits.
Title: Bomber concept (piccie inside)
Post by: karajorma on May 06, 2004, 11:23:08 am
Bring back the pod. I loved it :)
Title: Bomber concept (piccie inside)
Post by: Col. Fishguts on May 06, 2004, 12:20:18 pm
No ned to worry guys...this is just WIP with lots of stuff missing. The final version will look pretty much like the one in the first pic.
The huge bomb bay and side mounted guns will be there, and I'll try to make the bomb bay fit in there and fill the opne spaces.

@UT: I thought the same about the balance, and I think I'll add something on the left wing besides the guns....maybe a small sensor array/antenna-thingy, so it will be more balanced.
Title: Bomber concept (piccie inside)
Post by: Unknown Target on May 06, 2004, 12:58:21 pm
Try and mold the bomb bay more into the fuselage or wing, if you can. That also might help :)
Title: Bomber concept (piccie inside)
Post by: Martinus on May 08, 2004, 07:31:45 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Col. Fishguts
1036 polys so far
At the moment I'm trying to figure out how to use LithUnwrap, so I can slap some textures on it.

[color=66ff00]Google 'chilliskinner', it's a plugin for max that allows you to make rather good layouts for mapping models. :nod:
[/color]
Title: Bomber concept (piccie inside)
Post by: ChronoReverse on May 12, 2004, 10:16:58 pm
Hmmm, I like the new version more.  I'm wondering about that large bomb bay thing though.  It's attached with a rather thin pylon.

I hope it'll have its own engine attached to it.
Title: Bomber concept (piccie inside)
Post by: Nico on May 13, 2004, 01:43:22 am
Quote
Originally posted by Maeglamor

[color=66ff00]Google 'chilliskinner', it's a plugin for max that allows you to make rather good layouts for mapping models. :nod:
[/color]


chilliskinner? Didn't know that one, I use texporter. Gotta have to take a look at it someday.