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Off-Topic Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: an0n on May 03, 2004, 11:41:24 pm
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When Daniels was listing some of the races of the Federation, anyone else notice him just rattle off 'Klingon'?
And the insides of the Enterprise-J looked suspiciously Cardassian, with all that raised-quad panelling.
Thoughts?
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Notice he didn't say Romulans. It's a tie between them and the Andorians for my favorite ST race.
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Bah, the best race by far is the Breen.
While the Tzenkathi, Karemma and all those other races you hear about but never see were clamouring to ally themselves with the Dominion to ensure their own survival, the Breen signed up with the Dominion to get themselves into the war.
Unlike every other race, with the exception of the Founders and their lackeys, the Breen wanted to fight. Everyone else just got sucked in, but the Breen made a concious decision to go kick some Federation ass and grab some territory.
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I thought the federation was supposed to have a war with the romulans after or during Enterprise. If the romulans did end up in the federation would daniels have said so and risk changing the war with the romulans? that stupid archer captain might some how negotiate some lame peace treaty with the romulans if he throws more of that temporal cold war crap around.
I dunno... star trek kinda sucks.
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as you recal at the end of the dominion war the Klingons and the federation were nearly joined at the hip allies, everything (leading up to the end of DS9 especaly) sudgests that they were going to get absorbed eventualy, and Daniels is hundreds and hundreds of years ahead of that time, talking to someone hundreds and hundreds of years before.
the archatexture of the j does seem somewhat cardasian, but that could just be becase everyone liked DS9 so much there makeing everything look like it
and I just realised that Daniels probly tipped of the Xindi that Archer was makeing that suicide run. how convenient that medal he gave him turned out to be.
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I think I remember seeing Archer walk up to a computer panel the size of a wall with a big ol' schematic of the ship... looked pretty standard, like a ub3r huge Constellation or something, just futurified. But, I figure we probably won't be seeing the Ent-J for a long time anyway...
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Well the episode wednesday has the enterprise fighting a future self, so that should be... interesting.
I really like enterprise, but I'm really fustrated with all this time travel temporal crap. You don't have to pull things out of your butt to make a good story.
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Originally posted by J3Vr6
Well the episode wednesday has the enterprise fighting a future self, so that should be... interesting.
Heh, yes. I downloaded the trailer for the next ep and it looked quite fun :p Two NX-01 ships *****slapping eachother :D
I really like enterprise, but I'm really fustrated with all this time travel temporal crap. You don't have to pull things out of your butt to make a good story.
Unlike the Voyager time travel (as a note, I don't consider Voyager Star Trek), The Temporal Cold War is quite interesting.
As for the next ep I think it will tie in with the temporal cold war somehow. Or else they would never have been able to time travel. Even if they are their children (you see T'Pol & Tucker's son in the preview).
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Can you guys explain what this temporal cold war is? I mean, give me the whole background on it because I'm still a little lost. Who are fighting in this temporal cold war? What are the stakes? How long has this been going on? When did it start, blah blah balh.
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federation and the other guys ;) are fighting hehe
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Originally posted by J3Vr6
Can you guys explain what this temporal cold war is? I mean, give me the whole background on it because I'm still a little lost. Who are fighting in this temporal cold war? What are the stakes?
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It's a war between several different factions from the future. However, each faction if from a different time in the future. The two main factions are the Federation and the interdimensional Sphere-builders. In the actual future the sphere builders are beaten by the Federation when they want to convert space to suit their needs (make it habitable for them).
However, the Sphere Builders want to prevent that event and travel back in time to do so. They want to eliminate Archer because somehow he is an integral part in the road that leads to the foudation of the Federation itself. Without him, no Federation and the road is clear for the Spere builders.
How long has this been going on? When did it start, blah blah balh.
It's a temporal war. There is no set ending and/or beginning. Thats temporal mechanics for ya :p
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The Sphere Builders didn't travel back in time, they can see into the future.
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Originally posted by an0n
The Sphere Builders didn't travel back in time, they can see into the future.
True. My bad. They do have some sort of advanced holographic communication through time though.
That, however, suggests that the Suliban are being influenced by a different faction as they seem to posses only limited holo-communication technology. That makes a total of 4 factions at my count.
- The ones influencing the Suliban.
- The ones that influenced the Tholians to go after that timeship Enterprise found. Obviously not the Suliban faction as they attacked Suliban vessels. Also not the Starfleet faction as they attacked the Enterprise. they could be influenced by the sphere builders but somehow I doubt that.
- The Federation faction
- Sphere builders.
I think that after the Xindi plot (or even during) things will get a whole lot more interesting then they already are.
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i don't think the guys from the future that are talking to the suliban are in any way related to the sphere builders. they told archer to stop the xindi from destroying earth, while the sphere builders started the whole thing.
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Did anyone else think those Tholian ships rocked?
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Originally posted by Carl
i don't think the guys from the future that are talking to the suliban are in any way related to the sphere builders. they told archer to stop the xindi from destroying earth, while the sphere builders started the whole thing.
:nod: You got a good point there.
And Lib: Hell yeah :D
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I have a gut feeling the Tholians are their own faction entirely, and they're not taking direction from anyone else. It would fit with their being insular and territorial. (only meddling with time when it protects their own interests)
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Oh, so this whole temporal cold war is something that's only been going on in Enterprise. I gotcha. I thought this thing was spanning several shows, like it was somesort of theme or dealt with a broad timeline in Star Trek.
I kept wondering if there was something I was missing in the story since I really didn't watch the other ST shows.
But, with all this happening on the first show (Enterprise, first being that it's the first Enterprise to ship out and before all the other shows in terms of timeline) doesn't it kinda skew what will eventually happen in the next shows (Kirk, Next Generation, DS9, Voyager)... shows that have already happened (since they were already aired)?
I love Enterprise but this whole time travel thing is weak.
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The Tholians have always been one of the stranger races of the Trek universe. It's entire possible they're working on their own.
The Federation is obviously another faction.
The Sphere Builders are another.
And then there's the Suliban and the Shadowy guy. It'd make most sense for him to be Romulan or Cardassian. They both took one hell of a pounding during the Dominion War and weakening the Federation would mean the Romulans would never enter the war and the Cardassians would be alot better off, but having the Federation still around to fight would also mean the Dominion still needed them as allies. And weakening the Federation would also cripple the Klingon Empire after Praxis exploded. He also wanted Archer alive, and we know that a dead Archer means a victory for the Sphere Builders.
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And the plot thickens :drevil:
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I think The Shadowy Guy is a Vulcan.
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My head hurts.
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Actually, the shadowy guy is just a drunk guy from the 27th century or something who's punching random dates on a time communications machine and spewing some bull****.
:p
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I still think it'd be cool if it was Braxton.
He starts out as an idiot with faulty information that leads to the destruction of Sol. Then he goes nuts after decades in the 20th century. Then he goes nuts again and tries to blow up Voyager, screwing up the timeline about 20 times in the process. Then he spends frickin ages in prison for it.
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It's Archer. Come on. You know that's what they're gonna do.
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Braxton? Who's that?
I still think it would be funny if it was Al from Quantum Leap :p
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Already made an appearance as an official of some alien race or another that threw Archer in prison.(there's about 6 of 'em)
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Ugh... now my head really hurts.
Hey, who's that special agent guy that was in... in... Voyager or DS9 (or damn, Next Generation)? The one that had an alterior motive and was from some Section. Could it be him?
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Originally posted by J3Vr6
Ugh... now my head really hurts.
Hey, who's that special agent guy that was in... in... Voyager or DS9 (or damn, Next Generation)? The one that had an alterior motive and was from some Section. Could it be him?
Section 31? Nah, that guy is dead :p He litterally self destructed his brain :D He won't be making an appearance :p
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Personally, I like the Klingons. But anyway.....
There have been quite a few characters and races in Star Trek that could be capable of interfering with any/all of the factions.
1. Q.
2. Trelane, who may or may not be part of the Q Continuum.
3. Flint, assuming McCoy was wrong, even though it doesn't quite seem to mesh.
4. Kirk.
5. That alien from "Year of Hell" on Voyager.
6. Borg, even though they were ruined by the end of Voyager.
7. The aliens from "Captain's Holiday" on The Next Generation.
And that's just a small fraction of the people who could have beend oing it.
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Originally posted by J3Vr6
Ugh... now my head really hurts.
Hey, who's that special agent guy that was in... in... Voyager or DS9 (or damn, Next Generation)? The one that had an alterior motive and was from some Section. Could it be him?
Agent Sloan of Section 31.
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Originally posted by Grey Wolf 2009
2. Trelane, who may or may not be part of the Q Continuum.
no, he can't be. remember he was using technology to create his illusions, while a Q would just snap his fingers.
8. Gary 7.
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The entire "Trelane as Q" concept is from a book (Q Squared, IIRC) that suggests that Trelane is a juvenille Q, still in development.
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juvenile Q? you know they don't reproduce, right? the first time there had ever been a juvenile Q was when Q and his wife made that there baby at the end of the Q civil war during voyager. though i suppose he could have traveled back in time as trelane, he still wouldn't have needed a computer do do his powers for him.
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Forgot that. The book was written before the entire Q Civil War on Voyager, which explains teh disparity.
Also, IIRC, it was more or less a way for him to focus his powers, as oppsoed to the source of his powers.
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there was an adolecent Q in TNG
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Q-Squared is one of teh best ST books evar!
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I think it's safe to assume it's not the/a Q.
TNG Q would probably stop them anyway, seen as he's a big player in the Continuum and he'd not want them screwing with the Federation timeline.
Trelane is kinda non-canon.
Flint doesn't have the power or technology.
Kirk......No.
Annorax was 'reverted' and his technology didn't allow him to travel through time, just erase things from it. Though the Krenim could be another faction in the cold war.
It's too sneaky to be a Borg plot. But I suppose they could have allied with the Romulans, as they have in tons of books and Trek games and done it as a team.
And the Vorgons were too 'brute force' and their technology was too advanced. If they wanted to screw with the timeline they'd have just gone back in time and killed some people.
It has to be someone whose advanced enough to have the technology before the Federation have a means to detect it, but not so advanced as to be able to crush the Federation with brute force; And someone who's not part of a powerful empire, most likely a smaller race or a mercinary. If it is someone from a big empire they'd be using multiple agents in the past as opposed to just the one with the Suliban. Though if it's the Romulans or Cardassians, there's enough internal bickering for it to be the pet project of some nutter.
The best possible people/person for it to be would be the Ferengi, starting a temporal cold war just to make a quick buck.
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the shadowy guy doen't exactly have the physique of a ferengi. no big ears or anything.
i think it's worth it to mention that the writers have said during an interview that they don't know who he is either, that they made him up without anyone in particular in mind.
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Speaking of the Dominion War: Cool, ****ing beans! (http://www.sff.net/people/krad/domwar.htm)
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I am not a Trek fan by any means, but I watched DS9 and Voyager for a while when I was younger. Over the years and due to the wonders of crappy Sunday afternoon TV programming, I've seen I would guess maybe 80% of all Trek exlcuding Enterprise. DS9 was by far my fave.
and why is it that every sci-fi/fantasy writer has the initials R.A before their name? There's like a dozen R.A.Somethingorothers out there, all writing fiction novels...what gives?
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Dude, you guys know waaaaaaaay too much Start trek.
I have no idea who it is, or why their doing it. But I think Enterprise is digging their hole a little deeper if they keep up with the time stuff.
But, thinking about that a moment, what else can they really do?
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nothing, it's what the entier show is about.
that's like saying DS9 was digging their hole deeper by keeping up all that stupid wormhole and Dominion stuff, or voyager was digging there hole by keeping up with that whole 'lost in the Delta quadrant' thing.
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I think they should go for a real heroic ending to Enterprise. Have some apocalyptic battle against the Sphere Builders that'll make retaking Chin'toka look like a skirmish with the Ferengi, then purposely piss off every anti-trekkie by hitting the temporal reset button.
Have Archer and all kinds of races that'd **** up the entire Trek timeline marching into the Expanse and annihilating the Sphere Builders and their ****. Then some kind of uber-heroic end where Archer gets erased from history along with the Sphere Builders to save the universe.
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That would rock, actually... I'm kinda hoping that at the end of the season that cooshie presses the reset button (now lets see who catches that reference).
Bobbou, one thing is to have a story about a worm hole or getting lost in space (wow, that's never been done before), but it's another where you base everything on time travel, especially when the future has already been written in other shows...
I see what you're saying, and I'm a fan of Enterprise... hell, it's the only ST show I've actually watched. But it's just getting so whacky...
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I don't know, it's been kinda grim lately. I mean Enterprise is underpowered and way overworked.
What has happened is Science Fiction TV shows now suffer from the "Babylon 5 Syndrome", whereby if the show doesn't have some kind of perceivable long term plotline it is immeadiately considered crap and must be eliminated.
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And something is wrong with that? This isn't Seinfeld where they can have a show based on nothing... Sci Fi fans seem to be more rooted intellectually that they expect more than just flashy lights and things that go zooooom.
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What I'm saying is as long as the quality of writing and filmmaking stay up I'm fine with an episodic story architecture.
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Originally posted by Liberator
I don't know, it's been kinda grim lately. I mean Enterprise is underpowered and way overworked.
What has happened is Science Fiction TV shows now suffer from the "Babylon 5 Syndrome", whereby if the show doesn't have some kind of perceivable long term plotline it is immeadiately considered crap and must be eliminated.
Thats not necessarily bad....with B5 it was done so well in terms of story that we knew it was going several places all at the same time and it was fun to guess what it was. JMS also took plenty of universe style risks by having Narn invaded/bombed, various Centauri conflicts with the non-aligned races, the Shadow war...everything we took for granted as stable in the universe in Season 1 was thrown out the window by the end of the series.
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At the same time, you have to admit that The Next Generation was fairly good, and while it did have some references to earlier episodes, it didn't have a massive, set storyline. Few episodes did space things out over a good distance. The parasites that took over peoples brains, for instance.
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"The parasites that took over peoples brains, for instance."
what happened with that, I only remember the one eppisode were they found the one guy with them then hunted them back the federation HQ, and killed the queen in the one guy, then found a signal from some were else, and went after it, then I don't remember seeing an end to that
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Far as I know there was one ep with that Admiral quizzing the Enterprise-D crew to see if they were trustworthy, then another where they destroyed the queen.
Don't remember anything about them trying to track down a signal.
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I was like 8 at the time so maybe I remember it totaly wrong
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The two I remember are the ones that an0n mentioned.
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an0n knows everything about Star Trek.
Phear my wasted life!
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Well on another topic, the episode that was on tonight wasn't too bad. They definately tried to do a good job with the characters and such and they finally used the transporter as a weapon. yays! :)
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All this temporal-single-time-line crap!!!!!
I hate Star Trek becoase of that!
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Originally posted by TrashMan
All this temporal-single-time-line crap!!!!!
I hate Star Trek becoase of that!
:wtf: Have you even given Enterprise a chance? It's really different from your average ST temporal episodes in the previous series.
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This episdoe was great, I think. The acting was only terrible in one of them, and it was that asian alien that's the daughter of Archer. I thought she sucked.
Hey, wasn't like every law on time broken in that episode? They were informed of future events, including who they were going to marry and who's kids they'll have? Doesn't knowing the future also disrupt what the future can be? I'm thinking of what happened in Back to the Future. Then again, it can be argued that since their present was different than the old-people enterprise that then there's a possibility they won't hook up, but they found out before it even could be changed.
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like Daniels said, time travle is more complicated than your average HG Wells novel would have you belive.
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Originally posted by Tiara
:wtf: Have you even given Enterprise a chance? It's really different from your average ST temporal episodes in the previous series.
No offense, but Single-timeline-time-travel allways sucks...
By the very definition.
I wish Gene had more knowledge over phsysics and a greater scope for reality. The whole ST could have been far better (even tough it's great now...well..mainly TOS and TNG...other series suck big time)
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Originally posted by TrashMan
I wish Gene had more knowledge over phsysics and a greater scope for reality. The whole ST could have been far better (even tough it's great now...well..mainly TOS and TNG...other series suck big time)
Wowowowow WOW!. You will not, in any way, blame Gene Roddenberry for the f*ckups Berman & Braga made. :hopping:
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I'm blaming him for the energy beeings, shapechangers and ....well...nothing else.
The crap of DS9 and VOY are not his fault and I'm sure his spinnign in his grave like crazy beacouse of them now...
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DS9 rocked, WTF are you on?