Hard Light Productions Forums
Modding, Mission Design, and Coding => The Modding Workshop => Topic started by: Raptor on May 10, 2004, 06:34:08 am
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Remember a while back that I said I would look into merging the main maps from KARMA's/Vasudan Admiral's excellent, HTL Fenris model?
Well, here it is!
http:/ /www.angelfire.com/space2/raptorsnest/HTLFenris2.rar EDIT: link removed.
BTW, I could really do with someone else hosting this for me. I can do it for now, but I have very little space left in my webshell (Where I upload all my images). It's a fraction over 7MB.
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I can host it if you want. But has it been fully tested first?
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PICTURES! ALWAYS POST PICTURES!
:p
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Originally posted by Tiara
PICTURES! ALWAYS POST PICTURES!
:p
Unless Raptor screwed up it won't look any different from the other version :)
Still that said I wouldn't mind seeing more pics of it in action :)
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Oh yeah, Karma's Fenris had a little bug ( well, most likely, it was just a forgotten entry ): the radar would spin on main lod and lod 2 etc, but not lod1. Seeing how large the ****er is, t's pretty obvious. Just thought I'd point that out so it won't happen again.
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So what was the point of this, again? I don't remember what was wrong that it needed to do this...
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it uses one texture rather than 3, though there were so many polys covered by each of them it realy wasn't as nesicary as most other models, as long as the textures didn't lose any resolution this should be great.
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AKA it will run faster.
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gotcha... so u just download that rar and drop it in somewhere to use?
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:) yeah, like in winrar, to unpack it....no good otherwise ;) :D
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Okay, me got some explaining to do...
1) yes, LOD0 now uses 4 maps instead of 7. I didn't merge the trim mapping with the rest since their scary in Lilith:shaking:...
I merged :HTLFenris1, HTLFenris2, HTL Fenris3, HTLFenris4 and the engines into one single texture. All the HTLFenris# were resized to the nearest 'nice' size (512x512 for 1,3&4, 512x1024 for 2), before the merging. The engine texture was completely redone.;)
I also merged LOD1's maps as well.
2) the radars rotate on all LODs.
3) I used winRAR since WinZip produced a way too big file (then again this is a cut-down version, I'd better see what winZip spits out now...:doubt:...)
4) I didn't post any pics since, it looks excatly the same. But I'll see about getting some ASAP.:nod:
5) Hopefully it should run faster than before.
6) I haven't actually tested this in-game yet, but it should be fine.:nervous:. Let you know in a flash.
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*hangs head in shame* guess I should have tested first...
There are a couple of turret bugs. Two easily fixed in Modelview, but the last one needs work back at the TS level. In fact, one of the first 2 should really be fixed there anyway.
It does take my PC several seconds to load up the maps, but then again, I have a, compared to (it seems) everyone elses, pretty parthetic PC.
The 'Texture replacement' bit also failed to work in my test...
Should I put up the .scn file instead, so that someone with more experiance with converting models to .pof format can do a better job than me? *looks in Vasudan Admiral's direction*
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put up a screenie anyway, just because it looks cool
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The texture replacement thing doesn't work at all, it's not the models fault ;)
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It does work, I've used it. You need the duplicate model version ticked, and sometimes it's a little touchy, but it does work.
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the duplicate model version ticked?
That's for carrying map changes when you duplicate the ship, no? I don't see the link there :doubt:
Anyway, did you try with the latest builds? Coz it sure as hell didn't work for me.
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Not with the latest build no, but it definitely has worked in the past. I'd be able to confirm if someone with a more recent build would test my missions (*Glares menacingly at TI staff*), but seeing an Aeolus covered in asteroid textures is pretty convincing for me.
I'm not sure what the connection is with Duplicate model either, but when I left it unchecked, my changes reset themselves whenever I quit FRED. With that option checked, they didn't. I don;t ask questions.
Err, note to TI staff: I know, I know. I'll get testers soon ;)[/size]
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Originally posted by Raptor
*looks in Vasudan Admiral's direction*
lol, okay okay - i give up! :D
i gave the merging a go, and after a whole evening of fiddling, it didn't come out a lot faster, but it is a bit neater - and no detail loss whatsoever. It uses only 4 textures now - mainmap, the two trims, and the nameplate. :)
anyways, here's the final version unless anyone finds big bugs:
http://www.sectorfiles.com/ti-file-dump/VasudanAdmiral/HTL-Fenris-final.zip
and here's a couple of screenies from the instant mission i made just to test framerates, ie. no propper lighting, sun, background nebula or planet placement whatsoever. :D it was just an open, create fenris, save. :)
(http://www.sectorfiles.com/ti-file-dump/VasudanAdmiral/HTLFenris3.jpg)
you may or may not be able to see the improved shinemap in terms of the mechanical bits, which IIRC is what Karma said should be done, but that's about the only visual difference between this and the last one.
i just wish i can find time to complete the HTL triton i've been working on lately. :(
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HP Triton? Eenteresting.
What other vessels would benefit from he High Poly treatment.
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well I'm working on an HTL deimos, but I dare that people will not like she, since I'm working on the design too
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Nice work VA! Hope you don't get the turret trouble I have. Now I have to figure out why I can three Fenris's (my merged versions) on screen at once with FPS ~12, but a single upguned-Lev (same base, just completely different turrets) drops to ~8.
One question, did you use my work as a basis?
And KARMA, I trust you to really jazz up the Deimos nicely;)
PS: VA, I know people may want to kill me for this, but can I suggest a tiny change to the Trition design? All I ask is that the 'Bridge' bit (That little lump on the top forward) be shifted to the centre line.
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Originally posted by KARMA
well I'm working on an HTL deimos, but I dare that people will not like she, since I'm working on the design too
If it's good, at least I will like, in case you'd care.
Which one is the triton again?
[color=66ff00]Copied, pasted, fixed spelling and grammar and deleted last post. I am a wizard. :D [/color]
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if it's good then it should be diferent ship, ubberiseing means you make the ship look better without changeing the basic look of it.
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the problem bob is that for a good part of the capships of fs2 you can't just "remake the model using more polys and add details here and there ", for the simple reason that there aren't details to add without changing the designs, designs which were already a compromise due to their lowpolyness.
In my opinion for those ships the only way to make an HTL version is to just give completely freedom to modellers and trust their tastes...obviously the result *must* be coherent with the original model...you can't start with a colossus and finish with an enterprise D...eh:)
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Originally posted by Raa Tor'h
HP Triton? Eenteresting.
What other vessels would benefit from he High Poly treatment.
Err... all of them? :nod:
I'd personally like to see a high poly Poseidon. It's got a UV map from FS1 to work off and the design is pretty damned spiffy IMO.
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Originally posted by KARMA
the problem bob is that for a good part of the capships of fs2 you can't just "remake the model using more polys and add details here and there ", for the simple reason that there aren't details to add without changing the designs, designs which were already a compromise due to their lowpolyness.
In my opinion for those ships the only way to make an HTL version is to just give completely freedom to modellers and trust their tastes...obviously the result *must* be coherent with the original model...you can't start with a colossus and finish with an enterprise D...eh:)
I guess so long as you keep the general design the same as the original, keep the weapons and subsystems exactly where they are in the original, keep the general size of the original and keep all the table info (like the damage from weapons, speed of ship, etc) then I see no reason why you couldn't do that with some models.
Is it canon? Depends on how much you deviate from the original design...
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you just perfectly described what I don't want to do, what I think would be pointless, probably even wrong:D
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i.e. Make a Fenris about the same size as the Volition model, and with around the same number of turrets, but that's where the similarity ends? Everything else is up to the modder?
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I wasn't talking about the Fenris. He wanted to change the Deimos to something else. I was explaining that if you are and want it to be canon or unbreaking of the original campaign then you're going to have to at least stick to what I explained. Cuz then the original compaign won't play the same as you've changed the model too much.
Like the other guy said, if you're going to drastically change it then make it a new ship.
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Originally posted by Flipside
i.e. Make a Fenris about the same size as the Volition model, and with around the same number of turrets, but that's where the similarity ends? Everything else is up to the modder?
NOOOOO!!!!!!! :eek2: not unless it becomes a new entry in the table...
edit: sheesh this goes to fast...so it is clear to what I was reacting
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Deimos.
Edit: Bah! 2 posts in my time to write one...
Not an Edit: And sounds good. If you don't like it, you can always hit Shift+Delete and go back to the usual. (Which is why I wish people would stop complaining that things aren't canon.)
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eh nice example: the Fenris was probably the best capships texturing job in the game. Honestly....most of the other suck.
The Fenris is unwrapped and has custom textures.
This is exactly why I choosed that ship some months ago..
With the Fenris you could use the textures as a reference for the details, and then see what the :v: artist had in mind for that ship.
Actually I could have made more changes to the original Fenris shape (I did some, nonetheless), improoving the overall look, expecially on the middle blocky section, and I didn't just because I didn't want to draw new textures.
The other capships are usually (IIRC) more low poly considering the size, they have large flat areas mapped with same texture tiled to infinity.
What I mean is that
1-there aren't details in the textures that you can reproduce, you have to invent them by yourself
2-the models have this shape often NOT only for artistic reasons, but because of the polylimits. I bet (and you can "see" that looking at the models) that the shapes would be pretty different sometimes if the original artists had higher polylimits.
Now that we have those higher limits I think it'd be an error to stick on the same compromises.
3-those shapes are not designed to have details attached on em, I mean that if you just add some greebling here and there it'll suck. I mean that you can't just add minor details to a model with the same shape: the result will be better if you *partially* redesign the whole thing.
Also it is more...gratificating... for a modeller to throw something of his own into a model;)
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Well, what I'd do... mmh, let's take the orion:
I'd keep the original shape ( well, I'm lazy, so I'd start from the original mesh actually ), and rather than add things to it, I'd severly carve into it. The silhouette would be about the exact same, but if you have a clear view of the ship, it'd probably look quite different. But yeah, I'd keep the general proportions and subsystems the same/at the same place.
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personally, i would hate to change the look of the [v] ships, because that was one of the things i liked so much about the original game. what i'm trying to do is 'bring the ships to life', whilst keeping as close to the old design, shape colour and look as possible.
here's what i currently have on the triton to show you :)
(http://www.sectorfiles.com/ti-file-dump/VasudanAdmiral/Triton-HTL_WIP1.jpg)
(http://www.sectorfiles.com/ti-file-dump/VasudanAdmiral/Triton-HTL_WIP2.jpg)
it is 5235 polys when triangulated (can probably remove those vent things if it's too slow), and will only use 2 maps - hull and a nameplate, to keep speed up.
(completely done with blender to all you blender haters out there :D :p )
what i mainly did is guess the sorts of things that [v] might have done on their ships as Karma said, but not change anything.
and Raptor, sorry, i didn't use yours as a base. :(, i think in the end it was lucky i didn't since i had enough trouble with my own scn not converting properly-where i knew exactly what where everything was and how it was. i'd imagine it would have become crazy if i had attempted it on something else. :(
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now someone do the orion, the myrmidon, and the hecate and we'll be good
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VA, that ship is booty-full. I like it. Can't wait to see the finished product.
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Ah, the triton is that one? Yeah, I like, save for the lower arm. See, that's where I'd have made a design change, made it slimmer or something ( but keeping the engine pod beneath it the same ).
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I don't like just the details on the on the engine arms, the rest is fine. In my opinion if you want this kind of detail you should make it cave, or you may remove those structs making something else. Dunno exactly, maybe you could consider the arms like a superstructure for some pipeworks visible on the sides.
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I love it :yes:
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Try to keep minimalistic and sharp edges to a minimum, they will cause aliasing and odd lighting problems in-game.
But from what I can see so far it already looks pretty good, although the design could use a change or two as Venom suggested.
Good work so far nonetheless :yes:
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Originally posted by Vasudan Admiral
and Raptor, sorry, i didn't use yours as a base. :(, i think in the end it was lucky i didn't since i had enough trouble with my own scn not converting properly-where i knew exactly what where everything was and how it was. i'd imagine it would have become crazy if i had attempted it on something else. :(
Hey, it's no problem. Mine was the simplest merging possible.
Besides, I had to half redo the TS hiarcy(SP?), and a lot of renaming of parts, to get it to convert correctly.
And that Triton looks quite nice. Might be a little high poly, but when compared to the Fenris...
Must get that Aeolus done ASAP.
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Awesome, you've already made a lot of progress on the Triton. Well done. :)
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that triton is an exelent example of what I'm talking about
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Heck Angelfire's not working...
Guess I'll have to fall back on the 'sudo' web-page method.
Err, anyone know how to do that? I've forgotten:nervous:
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glad ppl like it :)
and Nico & Karma, you may be right about the lower arm - it does look a bit fat, but i think i'll see how it looks with textures before changing it at all- it was based on the original with the same dimensions, so i don't particularly like changing that sorta thing. i was even hesitant about the docking port, even though there should be some visual part to go with the point and path that are in the .pof :nervous:
Turambar: i basically textured Karma's fenris because i thought i could use that sort of practice, and then redid the triton because there was a.....certain...need for it in TI, which is how i will handle most of my future HTL jobs. :) and, since there is a Hecate and fair numbers of myrms appearing in TI and OR, they also may get the HTL treatment soonish. :D (but only after i've finished that....certain....object and then fix0red the multitude of bugs and problems in my really old models to enable OR's release)
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It looks very good. Can't wait to see it in-game. :nod:
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You already know what I think, so I suppose all that's left now is to...
HIT IT WITH A BIG STICK!!! IT WILL BE FUN!!!
:D
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Originally posted by Vasudan Admiral
...and, since there is a Hecate and fair numbers of myrms appearing in TI and OR, they also may get the HTL treatment soonish. :D
Ohh, your thinking about doing the Hecate... if you like, I'd be willing to do the turreting (seems the be the only thin I'm good at)
I could make it FAR better than :V: did.
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Originally posted by Black Wolf
HIT IT WITH A BIG STICK!!! IT WILL BE FUN!!!
:D
you killed it. :(
(http://www.sectorfiles.com/ti-file-dump/VasudanAdmiral/ouch.jpg)
Raptor: don't worry about it, since if you can model turrets, you can model ships. the Aleous and the Hera prove that. :p try sketching some ideas for basic ship shapes&/or outlines, and then building the ones you like most. i know from experience that it teaches you a huge ammount. :)
anyways, yeah, i think some new HTL turrets are in order for any future hecate, but i also will need some for the triton if you'd like to give it a try :D
if they could be only about ~50 polies each, with the shape fairly close to the original, they would be perfect and i'd be very grateful. :)
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While you're at it, try baking the capital ship maps and edit them to a) make them look good and b) remove V's stupid tiling problems ('specially on the hecate)
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Originally posted by Vasudan Admiral
anyways, yeah, i think some new HTL turrets are in order for any future hecate, but i also will need some for the triton if you'd like to give it a try :D
if they could be only about ~50 polies each, with the shape fairly close to the original, they would be perfect and i'd be very grateful. :)
I've been learning modelling for a few weeks now and started making a better version of Arcadia. It most likely won't be seen ingame, but at least it's a good exercise if I ever start a serious HTL model. Anyway, I've made these turrets for the station:
(http://img14.imageshack.us/img14/2927/ArcadiaWIP005.jpg)
The one on the left is the original, middle is my first version and the last one I'm using on the model.
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that is a great turret for any model with those style of turrets :)
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'love it, fodder :)
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I've been telling CF he should try modelling for a while :) Glad he finally took my advice :)
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Dont let that stop you from making cutscenes tho ;7
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Originally posted by Vasudan Admiral
Raptor: don't worry about it, since if you can model turrets, you can model ships. the Aleous and the Hera prove that. :p try sketching some ideas for basic ship shapes&/or outlines, and then building the ones you like most. i know from experience that it teaches you a huge ammount. :)
Mate, I've got an enire FOLDER of sketchs and ideas scribbled/sketched/neatly drawn on paper. Most end up being rejected, but their still there. I'm a (almost) compulsive sketcher;)
And I'm glad you remember the Hera. She's still waiting for her UVmapping I'm afraid:(. Lilith slowed right down when I worked on it last. Must try again some time soon.
anyways, yeah, i think some new HTL turrets are in order for any future hecate, but i also will need some for the triton if you'd like to give it a try :D
if they could be only about ~50 polies each, with the shape fairly close to the original, they would be perfect and i'd be very grateful. :) [/B]
I posted one type of new turrets back in my Aelous thread. Unfortunatly with Angelfire going mad, they no longer dispay:(. rather high poly (between 200-350), but I'm sure I can whip up some that are much more resonable.
Lt.Cf, that is a much nicer turret shape.:nod:
I'm not likely to be doing anything for the next couple of weeks though. I have the dreaded...
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...The evil...
...
...
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...END OF UNIV DEGREE EXAMS!!!!!!![/B]:shaking:
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ouch, well, good luck :)
hehe, same here with the #'s of sketches, only mine are more concept scribbles than anything else. ;) after your exams, pick the ones you like most and build 'em :D
and yeah - i saw the turrets in the Aleous thread, but i think they're a bit 'leaned back' and sleek to be available to civillians. whatever you come up with, as long as it looks like it fits in with the rest of the triton model, just about anything should be great :) (i'll send you the untextured model in whatever format you want to check).
While you're at it, try baking the capital ship maps and edit them to a) make them look good and b) remove V's stupid tiling problems ('specially on the hecate)
while i won't be baking them (way too much detail loss) i will be basically retexturing most of them completely, as was sorta done with the fenris and is being done with the triton. :) i'm going to try and get it so that each ship (save maybe the really big ones) can use a single big UV map or two. :) (actually, i'll be doing all future models like that, for TI and HTLing stuff.)
i like those Arcadia turrets Lt. CF. :yes: are you making the arcadia completely HTL?
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Originally posted by Lightspeed
Dont let that stop you from making cutscenes tho ;7
What cutscenes??? Where?? Who? did I miss something
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Originally posted by jdjtcagle
What cutscenes??? Where?? Who? did I miss something
CF is MindGames and now TVWP's resident animator.
If you want to see some pics of his work have a look at this (http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php/topic,18537.0.html)
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Wow that's nice stuff :)
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Glad you like my turret. It has 109 polys, so it shouldn't be too bad.
Originally posted by Vasudan Admiral
i like those Arcadia turrets Lt. CF. :yes: are you making the arcadia completely HTL?
As I said, the Arcadia is an exercise. I doubt I will get it work properly ingame, but I can try. And keep in mind I'm still a complete newbie at modelling, so it's just a big collection of boxes in different shapes :)
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Hehe. Just try it. We can always try to merge them if the result is good. ;)
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Since it cropped up in this thread...
Taking a break from revision:shudder:, I've starting UVmapping the Hera. Plus I also ran a check on restoring the other half (doing UV on one half of ship).
It's, quite frankly, alarming.
Current model LOD0, complete, Un-Trianglated: ~5381 polys
Above model, but Trianglated: 15552 polys
Reaction: :eek2::eek2::eek2:
EDIT: forgot to mention, the above is the hull only. No turrets or anything.
Combine that with the current map configuation, and this will be a fps munching monster.
Looks like I need to do some sniping...
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Originally posted by Black Wolf
Err... all of them? :nod:
I'd personally like to see a high poly Poseidon. It's got a UV map from FS1 to work off and the design is pretty damned spiffy IMO.
I would like to see a High poly Apollo, and Madusa!
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Originally posted by Starfighter
I would like to see a High poly Apollo
Seconded.
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We dont need hi-poly fighters as much as hi-poly capships, period.
What we'd REALLY need is a hi-poly Argo.
And fighter models with built-in cockpits. ;7
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Originally posted by Lightspeed
And fighter models with built-in cockpits. ;7
If I ever get it right, I'll do the rest of them. But as it is, I can't see how to do it correctly. It keeps fighting with me. :hopping:
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Originally posted by Lightspeed
We dont need hi-poly fighters as much as hi-poly capships, period.
I agree completely!
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Originally posted by Raa Tor'h
If I ever get it right, I'll do the rest of them. But as it is, I can't see how to do it correctly. It keeps fighting with me. :hopping:
Fight. Win. Victory! :D
Just keep trying, i'm sure you'll get it right one day.
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now someone make the rest of the hecate.
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Just my opinion: Go look at what the WC: SAGA guys are doing with WC fighters and capital ships. They are taken known designs, many that were created with the same or less polys than the FS2 ships and adding all sorts of details without totally violating the original design.
Make a high poly everything and add all the detail you want...at the end of the day if its supposed to be a high poly Deimos it should still be a Deimos and it should still be somewhat boxy...just with nice extra details to give it a nicer shape.