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General FreeSpace => FreeSpace Discussion => Topic started by: Carl on May 23, 2004, 01:52:53 am

Title: So here's a question Carl has
Post by: Carl on May 23, 2004, 01:52:53 am
This has probably been discussed here before, or i'm missing something.

When they're about to blow up the knossos device and the shivans jump in, they want you to clear them out before they can detonate the meson bomb. But wouldn't the bomb take care of them for you?
Title: So here's a question Carl has
Post by: jdjtcagle on May 23, 2004, 02:09:29 am
They want you to take out any fighters taht threaten the Sobek and then watch as the meson-bomb takes out 12 dragons. :)
Title: So here's a question Carl has
Post by: karajorma on May 23, 2004, 03:01:16 am
I think the idea is to stop the fighters from blowing up the meson bomb and thus disabling it. The problem is that when you blow up the meson bomb it does exactly the same amount of damage as if you let it explode.
Title: So here's a question Carl has
Post by: Carl on May 23, 2004, 03:27:41 am
well if they had just detonated it right away...
Title: So here's a question Carl has
Post by: an0n on May 23, 2004, 03:33:48 am
They probably didn't want the fighters jumping out as the bombs exploded and creating a 'Lucifer effect', sealing the system off and collapsing all the nodes.
Title: So here's a question Carl has
Post by: Blaise Russel on May 23, 2004, 03:44:29 am
Surely the 'Lucifer effect' only affects the one node, that node being the one in which the bomb is currently present? If it's not in subspace, how can it collapse any node at all?
Title: So here's a question Carl has
Post by: ARothers on May 23, 2004, 05:03:04 am
Perhaps the explosion of the Lucifer was so great it destroy all jump nodes leading from Earth.  And the Bastion and the Neried explosions weren't powerful enough.  The Meson warhead only destroyed the portal but didn't collapse the subspace.  But the Sathanas was already in subspace when the Knossos blew up.  So the Shivans had more advanced subspace technology so they managed to get through.
Title: So here's a question Carl has
Post by: Blaise Russel on May 23, 2004, 05:39:06 am
There was only the one node from Sol anyway. We speculate that the others were too unstable to use anyway, because FS1 is riddled with so many background holes that it's a wonder it can stand upright at all.

The Meson warhead was only intended to destroy the Knossos portal, as they reckoned that without the portal's stabilising influence, the node would collapse anyway. They were wrong; while being stabilised by the Knossos, the node had become stable in its own right, and no longer needed the portal to keep it usable.

I don't think you can collapse subspace with an explosion in real space anyway.
Title: So here's a question Carl has
Post by: Taristin on May 23, 2004, 09:43:06 am
Quote
Originally posted by an0n
They probably didn't want the fighters jumping out as the bombs exploded and creating a 'Lucifer effect', sealing the system off and collapsing all the nodes.


But... wasn't the point of that mission to seal off the node anyway?:wtf:
Title: So here's a question Carl has
Post by: Ghostavo on May 23, 2004, 01:51:28 pm
Maybe the bomb was charging up, who cares...
Title: So here's a question Carl has
Post by: Flaser on May 23, 2004, 02:06:55 pm
No. They thought that without the Knossos, the node would dissolve WITHOUT the Luciferish effect.

The idea was that it was the Knossos that kept the node in check.
Title: So here's a question Carl has
Post by: Johnmike on May 24, 2004, 05:25:00 am
Oh, boy.
Title: So here's a question Carl has
Post by: an0n on May 24, 2004, 10:19:36 pm
There could be a much simpler explaination: Command didn't want Shivan ships seeing their new super-weapon.
Title: So here's a question Carl has
Post by: WMCoolmon on May 24, 2004, 11:15:08 pm
Or Command doesn't like Alpha 1.
Title: So here's a question Carl has
Post by: Hellbender on May 25, 2004, 12:17:49 am
Heh - dunno, but myself I'd've built the meson bombs into shielded, heavily armoured, sub-space capable RPBs and used them to go Sathanas hunting instead of destroying a valuable resource like the Knossos portal.

Mission design-wise, protecting the meson bombs from fighter attack is more interesting to a player than a bombing run against an unarmed static installation.
Title: So here's a question Carl has
Post by: Blaise Russel on May 25, 2004, 12:22:46 am
Or they wanted to protect the guys who put the bomb in place.
Title: So here's a question Carl has
Post by: Lightspeed on May 25, 2004, 09:46:35 am
Nice to see you back at the forums BR :)
Title: So here's a question Carl has
Post by: Blaise Russel on May 25, 2004, 11:01:54 am
Exams are fun.
Title: So here's a question Carl has
Post by: Lightspeed on May 25, 2004, 11:13:47 am
I know, I know. :ick:
Title: two reasons
Post by: Star Dragon on May 26, 2004, 02:01:49 pm
One, perhaps the bomb needs to be put in an exact position before allowing it to detonate (which prematurely would still waste everyone in the area, but may not affect the Knossis as desired if not close enough using their calculations for placement and damage potential of the meson bomb).

  Two, it's another mission for the player.
Title: So here's a question Carl has
Post by: AqueousShadow on May 26, 2004, 06:32:53 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Blaise Russel
The Meson warhead was only intended to destroy the Knossos portal, as they reckoned that without the portal's stabilising influence, the node would collapse anyway. They were wrong; while being stabilised by the Knossos, the node had become stable in its own right, and no longer needed the portal to keep it usable.


Exactly. Command thought that without the Knossos, the Shivans wouldn't be able to get through because the subspace tunnel would become unstable again. However, either it already became stabilized on its own, or the Shivans were able to get through before it actually started to destabilize.

Clearing out the fighters would ensure that the bomb squad got back safely. Also, detonating the bomb would also kill you and anything in the immediate vicinity, not allowing Command to take that course of action. Besides, the Shivan fighters would probably be too fast and fly away before the bomb goes kaboom anyway.
Title: So here's a question Carl has
Post by: Carl on May 26, 2004, 06:55:38 pm
Quote
Originally posted by AqueousShadow


Exactly. Command thought that without the Knossos, the Shivans wouldn't be able to get through because the subspace tunnel would become unstable again. However, either it already became stabilized on its own, or the Shivans were able to get through before it actually started to destabilize.


well, technically, it didn't stablize on it's own. the knossos did it. you see, the Knossos effect works in long term, too. it's like a bobby bin. if you bend it and then let go, it'll snap right bach, but if you bend it and hold it there, it'll very slowly loose tension.
Title: So here's a question Carl has
Post by: IceFire on May 26, 2004, 08:37:55 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Carl


well, technically, it didn't stablize on it's own. the knossos did it. you see, the Knossos effect works in long term, too. it's like a bobby bin. if you bend it and then let go, it'll snap right bach, but if you bend it and hold it there, it'll very slowly loose tension.

Yeah thats a pretty good analogy.

If you read the debriefing and listen to the comments...the conclusion is that the subspace node had already stabilized on its own following the activation of the Knossos portal...the months that it had been active had been enough to move the node from an unstable/untraversable (without the help of the portal) to ones that was fairly easy to traverse.

Unaware of that fact, Command attempted to destroy the Knossos and seal the node by making it unstable again.   The bombs were directed at the Knossos and not the subspace corridor.  There obviously wasn't time to bring in a destroyer filled with Meson bombs and conventional means of attacking a spinning gate with no central point is very difficult (and no doubt a gameplay concession as well)....so...the Sathans got through and we know what happened next.
Title: So here's a question Carl has
Post by: karajorma on May 27, 2004, 05:00:43 am
Quote
Originally posted by IceFire
If you read the debriefing and listen to the comments...the conclusion is that the subspace node had already stabilized on its own following the activation of the Knossos portal...the months that it had been active had been enough to move the node from an unstable/untraversable (without the help of the portal) to ones that was fairly easy to traverse.


I always took it as not the months it was active so much as the 8000 years it was in standby mode.  If a knossos portal could stabilize a node in a few months I doubt the ancients would have built so many. They'd just build one, stabilise the node and then take it apart and move it to the next unstable node.