Hard Light Productions Forums
Off-Topic Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: Rampage on May 23, 2004, 08:19:46 pm
-
Hey guys,
I just want to take a poll of HLP's denizens. Do you consider yourself to be liberal, moderate, or conservative?
I vote conservative myself, and I wait for you bleeding hearts to vote.
I bet that this thread will be closed by the admins pretty soon and me given a ban for some reason like that past of an0n.
Cheers,
Rampage
-
Liberal, though thats a pretty narrow descrpition. I don't necesarilly agree with Liberals on eveything, or disagree with Conservatives on eveything, but more or less Left.
-
apathetic moderate
-
Originally posted by Rictor
Liberal, though thats a pretty narrow descrpition. I don't necesarilly agree with Liberals on eveything, or disagree with Conservatives on eveything, but more or less Left.
Kinda the same here. But not really a political person.
-
Oh, wait, I've got a good idea. Instead of just waiting for the first opportunity to start the flamewar, how about people actually explain why and they hold such and such a belief. You know, in the interest of understanding and all that.
I'll start.
I agree with the general position held by the Left, becuase it seems to best serve the interests of freedom, peace, self-determination and so forth. It tries to better the situation of people, instead of advancing the causes of greed or idealogy or only personal gain.
When I look down through history, all the people who were supporters of monarchy, slavery, colonialism, religious intolerance, class inequality, wars of conquest and other such thing, they all seem to have a specific mindset throughout. And this mindset more closely corresponds with the modern "conservative" minset than with the "liberal" one. In a nutshell, the way I see it, all of history's bstards were the "conservatives" of their day. Note that I said "of their day", which means that from several possible mindsets, their was always towards the Right, not that their beliefs are identical to modern day conservatives.
I might post some more later, but right now I'm off to watch Paycheck with Ben Affleck which will, I suspect, be a bad flick. Ah well, nothing better is out. The Statement sucked, it looked so good before I actually saw it.
-
Liberal. My school is rather conservative though, they call me a music-loving peace-worshiping hippy there.
-
HLP is riddled with hippies.
-
I refuse to participate in this seriously due to the flame potential that will soon become apparent.
In the mean time: Moo.
-
I have a somewhat unique political ideology.
I believe there should be three tiers of government. The first elected by the people, but with enough power to be able to ignore the will of the people. The second comprised of a single person whose word is law and can only be over-ruled by a 90% consensus of the first level or by a 75% vote from the people.
The third would be completely autonomous. Answering to no-one and with total power to do as they pleased. If anyone was deemed to be rocking the boat, this branch of the government would 'disappear' them and destroy their ideas publicly.
-
I choose D: none of the above. Political debates are evil.
-
You built the US govt. system didn't you? How old are you an0n? :lol:
-
If I believed in reincarnation, I'd say about 5000 years old. But I don't. So: 18.
-
nah, in the end, the people will do whats best for them or die off. Either way, it all works out.
the only reason someone would want dictatorial powers would be to further their own ends. Anyone who has the interests of the people at mind would not interefere. Intereference in human affairs has a very bad track record. Freedom is more important than stability, which is getting well into the realm of Brave New World and the like.
but hey, thanks for no one participating in my little idea. I really appreciate it.
-
I guess Liberal fits best. Really, I'm an Idealist, which means that there's a certain way that things should be and if things are like that, then the world wil be better, and right now the closest thing on the list to that is liberal
-
anon: don't flatter yourself, there's nothing unique about your idea. Its been the dream of every dictator in human history. Thankfully, most failed. But those who successded ruled over the worst chapters in history. But, of course, we are to believe you would be different. A philosopher-king, wise and restrained, with the ability to safekeep the "bewildered herd" from itself.
-
Hooray for socialism over here. :)
-
I'm... moderate right wing and sometimes moderate left wing, depending n the subject. But I'm never moderate-and-that's-it, leads nowhere.
Oh, and I vote for a new forum, where Rictor and An0n would be locked, together, on their own.
-
Socialist - In other words, a reformed Communist.
-
I dont bother with politics.....
As long as I can bribe a politician running a particular segment of the city that concerns me, that party aint getting my vote (if I ever get the chance to that is).
In Singapore though, it doesnt matter. It especially doesnt matter since im stuck with the Government here whether or not I like them (being in the army does that to ya).....*sigh*........
-
For the wuv of fishes and all that is still good in the world why are we having yet another political topic?
You know, I know, and they know that these always get into a flame feast centered around some conservative thinker (such as me or Lib).
So lets drop it.
-
I am a conservative with liberal ideas :nervous: so moderate it is...
-
Liberal social views, and conservative fiscal views.
-
I'm for the people who want to ban McDonald's and make Jared fat again so Subway will fire his ass. Are they a political group yet?
-
Originally posted by Rictor
anon: don't flatter yourself, there's nothing unique about your idea. Its been the dream of every dictator in human history. Thankfully, most failed. But those who successded ruled over the worst chapters in history. But, of course, we are to believe you would be different. A philosopher-king, wise and restrained, with the ability to safekeep the "bewildered herd" from itself.
The unique aspect of my idea would be that the entire 'shadow government' would be built on killing those above you if they started getting power-hungry.
And my idea is, in theory, nothing like a dictatorship. Infact it's pretty much a democracy, but with elected officials being firmly entrenched enough that they don't have to listen to whiney-ass liberal groups like Greenpeace and all those anti-smoking queers.
All in all, the best analogy would be the Greek/Roman afterlife. You play it straight, be nice to everyone, live a good life and you get to live in the wonders of the Elysian Fields. You start rocking the boat, go looking for some Golden Fleece and try to bribe Charon: I have Cerberus maul yo' ass to death.
-
actually, your system sounds like tyranny.
-
It would be, but the shadow government has no actual power.
It's just immune from all laws.
So it could kill the Prime Minister, but it couldn't fine people for letting their dogs **** on government property.
-
couldn't they commit genocide then? in theory?
-
Indeed they could. But so could any moron with a tank and a few troops.
-
Any moron with a tank and a few troops has. Many times.
Something about absolute power corrupting absolutely. Or Absolute Vodka, it was one of those two, I can't exactly remember which one.
-
Originally posted by HotSnoJ
For the wuv of fishes and all that is still good in the world why are we having yet another political topic?
You know, I know, and they know that these always get into a flame feast centered around some conservative thinker (such as me or Lib).
Very well then, if you're a conservative thinker then what would your ideal society for conservatives be?
No, I'm not trying to be insulting or anything. an0n has stated his ideas for his own utopia, what are yours?
I'm honestly curious, because I hear lots of banging trash cans about "evil secular consumerism, christian nations, returning to old values" etc. etc. but I'm never given any solid examples of what is wanted.
-
Originally posted by Rictor
Something about absolute power corrupting absolutely. Or Absolute Vodka, it was one of those two, I can't exactly remember which one.
Abosolute power is fine as long as the person wielding it is an apathetic nihilist. Basically someone of the mindset "Why bother?".
It's when someone has power that is less than absolute and temporary that problems arise, as they become accustomed to that power and fight tooth and nail to keep or increase it.
Monarchies are a good example. There've been ones all over the world that had absolute power over their subjects and they've worked fine, except for the problem of the King/Queen losing touch with what's best for the people.....and mother****ers rocking the boat purely for the purpose of rocking it then screaming about "We want a democratic society" because they've been misinformed that it's somehow better.
-
A true good example of conservative thinking would be the US between the end of World War 1 and Pearl Harbor. Not dipping too heavily in foreign policy, mostly working with domestics. Thanks to Reagan, conservative has changed to "LET'S BLOW THE F'ING PLANET UP AND NAME OUR IDEAS AFTER OLD MOVIES" (Star Wars defense system... next thing he was gonna announce was "Terminator" the anti gun-registration commission)
-
Liberals are moderates....Socialists are Left wing.
At present...Canada has only one real national party and thats the Liberals who sit teetering on the edge between right and left wings. Its the only party with a broad national outlook and representative of the vast numbers of moderate Canadians.
The old Conservative party used to be the same thing reallly. It had a broad nationalist appeal with enough moderation to be worthwhile to vote for. The new Conservative party is the Reform/Alliance party with new clothing...no broad nationalist appeal, will drop taxes and national healthcare, screw up education, and get us into the kinds of wars and situations like President Bush has in the U.S.
Bring back the old school conservatives who actually meant something...not these neo-conservatives who are way too far off the deep end to represent anything moderately Canadian.
-
The "old school conservatives" support Martin :D:D
anon: so, essentially, you subscribe to Plato's world view. But see, he had a reason to hate democracy. It was stupid beaurocrats acting under the guise of democracy that got his mentor and close friend, Socrates, killed. What reason to do you?
just look at all the failed utopias of the 20th century. Communism, faschism.
as I said, freedom is more important than stability.
-
see, whats your goal. In advocating democracy or dictatorship or supreme rule by Bob the Almighty, whats the goal you're after? Please say something as stupid as stability or order so I can laugh at you.
-
If you're citing the fall of Communism as a reason why a utopian society is impossible, I may just have to kill you.
-
and that in ancient Greece, almost everyone was uneducated. That's another major difficulty. I mean, try casting a ballot when you can't read it.
-
Americans seem to do just fine.
-
communism should have done just fine, in theory. if the people behind the revolution hadn't been opportunistic bastards and instituted a dictatorship. and this has happened every time. China, Russia, Cuba, North Korea. the only functioning example of communism that I know of would be the kibutz (sp) in Israel. Not taking into account small, tribal societies.
Communism isn't impossible, its just impossible by humans. I take it that your ideal society would be not unlike 1984 or a Brave New
-
My ideal society would have a thousand cameras in every home and trustworthy people manning them.
So, realistically, no cameras in anyone's home.
-
people need instant gratification. that doesn't happen in communism, so people, like the economy and life, stagnate. I mean, if you farm 400 beans a week cuz you work hard, and your neighbour only farms about 100 cuz he wanks off too much, would you be willing to share your beans in a pool and split them fifty fifty?
-
No.
You get as much as you deserve. Simple.
-
Originally posted by Carl
HLP is riddled with hippies.
You should see where I live. 50 hippies die everytime you drive down the street. :lol:
-
Originally posted by an0n
Abosolute power is fine as long as the person wielding it is an apathetic nihilist. Basically someone of the mindset "Why bother?".
It's when someone has power that is less than absolute and temporary that problems arise, as they become accustomed to that power and fight tooth and nail to keep or increase it.
Monarchies are a good example. There've been ones all over the world that had absolute power over their subjects and they've worked fine, except for the problem of the King/Queen losing touch with what's best for the people.....and mother****ers rocking the boat purely for the purpose of rocking it then screaming about "We want a democratic society" because they've been misinformed that it's somehow better.
You forget....after a good ruler is gone, then who's left to take the throne? unless you plan on immortality, I wouldn't bother either way.
btw, any form of government is totally useless is the person leading it is an idiot, while even the wildest types work best with the right person. This has worked VERY well before. I can name off hte top of my heads many rulers that have done well in india, and I'm sure some of you can name some as well (President Kennedy is an example). But too many good people have been followed by bad people that investing too much power into the ruling power has resulted in too much trouble.....(and the world you see today). The solution suggested simply returns to that cycle, or at least it seems that way, so correct me if I'm wrong.
an0n, there is a letter on communism that is quite interesting. you may want to read it, i'll PM you the thing once I find it.
-
That's where the cloning comes in :nervous:
-
Originally posted by Ace
Very well then, if you're a conservative thinker then what would your ideal society for conservatives be?
No, I'm not trying to be insulting or anything. an0n has stated his ideas for his own utopia, what are yours?
I'm honestly curious, because I hear lots of banging trash cans about "evil secular consumerism, christian nations, returning to old values" etc. etc. but I'm never given any solid examples of what is wanted.
Here's the GOP platform (http://www.rnc.org/About/PartyPlatform/Default.aspx), I haven't read though the whole thing but I'm assume I agree on most points.
Now before you go off saying I'm a religious nut case who wants to take over the government and ban all others. You're quite wrong, I could care less what you believe from a political standpoint. I would love to see you become a Christian, but I will not support laws/policy that would restrict you. Also I must point out that it is the Christians and Christian nations (e.g. what the US somewhat is) that have allow the greatest religious freedom. Don't believe me? Just look at history. Examples are the USSR, who imprisoned thousands for not conforming to the Communist ideal. Also that is China (can't remember it's official name ATM), do I even need to remind you of Tiananmen Square?
Also of note, have you ever seen a conservative/Chrisitian thinker ever stop anyone of any faith from praying in a public place (such as school)? Probably not. Now how about a liberal/socialist? Infact sometime since 9/11/2001 my local schooldistrict set aside places for muslims to meet and pray. However they have restricted or banned Christians from doing this.
Well I gtg and deliever my papers. I'll be back later.
-
In sweden, liberal is right-wing...
-
I hate to do that, but I'll have to support An0n on one point, there:
Tyrany can work better, depending on where you leave.
Take, ouch, Yougoslavia. Under Tito's rulling, everything was going fine. Tito was no funny guy. Then they got bloody useless idiots, and all went pouf, people started killing each other.
Alelujha for freedom.
-
I agree with the Tito example, I'll give you that much. Just my luck, I'm born just as the golden era is winding down and the **** starts hitting the fan.
But it is *because* of Tito's style of rule that you saw the wars of Yugoslav succesion in the 90s. See, his idea was unity at any cost. The fact that the Serbs didn't get along with the Croats, the Croats didn't get along with the Bosnians and the Bosnians didn't get along with the Serbs, that didn't concern him much. There was lots of bad blood between the Serbs and the Croats, because the Croats had beem Nazi colaboraters, while the Serbs had fought in the resistance, the largest group being the Communists who eventually took power after the war.
Its the same story in Africa, in India/Pakistan and many other places. Groups who have certain quarells are forced to live with each other for the sake of unity. And when the force that is holding them together against their will is gone, well then they have to work their **** out. In Africa, this mostly happened after de-colonization, and in Yugoslavia it happened with the death of Tito (though there was stability for abour 10 moer years after his death).
Tyranny may work, but its only achieving something not worth the cost.
See, if I have to pay 5,000 dollars for a chocolate bar, screw it, I don't want te chocolate bar. ANd if people have to pay for order with their freedom, than they would rather have freedom any day.
edit: My English teacher must be spining in her...chair. I R A Terible spellar.
-
Yeah I agree with you, but, as you said, the whole deal started BEFORE Tito. There was no way to prevent a bloodshed w/o a guy like him, coz you guys live on the same soil. As weird as it may sound, he actually cooled things down.
See, things would have kept this way for one more generation, all that croat/serb thing would have probably vanished with the death of the older ones.
And I'd rather have order at a price than freedom in death, to be honest.
arh, edited for typos too :p
-
<---- Fascist Republicrat.
i.e.: Both sides have a more complete picture when they work together, but my say should be the only say.
Makes it a ***** to vote in the primaries though, so I'm more of a conservative democrat.
-
Originally posted by HotSnoJ
Here's the GOP platform (http://www.rnc.org/About/PartyPlatform/Default.aspx), I haven't read though the whole thing but I'm assume I agree on most points.
.
So you dont know what they're saying but you're sure you agree with it? People like you let hitler into power. His unemployment and self sufficiency policies sounded quite good if you hadnt heard about the killing all the jews, gays, retards and other people he considered subhuman.
http://www.rnc.org/About/PartyPlatform/default.aspx?Section=8
I'm not surprised you havent read through it. How can these people claim to be their leadership is best for the world when they cant even grasp the concept of a paragraph.
-
Originally posted by HotSnoJ
Here's the GOP platform (http://www.rnc.org/About/PartyPlatform/Default.aspx), I haven't read though the whole thing but I'm assume I agree on most points.
Now before you go off saying I'm a religious nut case who wants to take over the government and ban all others. You're quite wrong, I could care less what you believe from a political standpoint. I would love to see you become a Christian, but I will not support laws/policy that would restrict you. Also I must point out that it is the Christians and Christian nations (e.g. what the US somewhat is) that have allow the greatest religious freedom. Don't believe me? Just look at history. Examples are the USSR, who imprisoned thousands for not conforming to the Communist ideal. Also that is China (can't remember it's official name ATM), do I even need to remind you of Tiananmen Square?
Also of note, have you ever seen a conservative/Chrisitian thinker ever stop anyone of any faith from praying in a public place (such as school)? Probably not. Now how about a liberal/socialist? Infact sometime since 9/11/2001 my local schooldistrict set aside places for muslims to meet and pray. However they have restricted or banned Christians from doing this.
Well I gtg and deliever my papers. I'll be back later.
I was more interested in your ideas of the ideal government, similarly I'm also interested in Liberator's ideal government and society.
Linking to another website with similar ideas I don't think is as conductive to a discussion as stating what you think yourself.
Anyways, I'm sort of hoping to get everyone involved in this sort of discussion. Later on I'll post on ideas for what I think would be the ideal setup.
Also, for the time being, let's also keep from pointing fingers at each other and calling people who don't agree with you facists. :)
-
and then there is the very real chance of them saying one thing and doing another. I wouldn't trust either the Dems or the Reps as far as I could throw them, they have a long and proud history of lieing through their teeth.
-
Originally posted by Rictor
and then there is the very real chance of them saying one thing and doing another. I wouldn't trust either the Dems or the Reps as far as I could throw them, they have a long and proud history of lieing through their teeth.
Well, they are politicians.
Oh, and my political leaning is of the 'be jolly nice to people and they won;t act rotten' variety. Well, except for the quasi-nutcase 'kill all neds' bit, but I'll keep that hush-hush for the time being :nervous:
-
Don't be silly, Neds would eat you alive if they got the chance you know!
-
Originally posted by vyper
Don't be silly, Neds would eat you alive if they got the chance you know!
Yes - which is why I have to make my buckfast & anthrax plan covert.
ALthough the buckfast is actually more lethal than the anthrax, so I'm not sure whether it's worth bothering.
-
Originally posted by kode
In sweden, liberal is right-wing...
that's cuz Sweden is the country of government ownership and blonde hookers. It works well!
-
Originally posted by Gank
So you dont know what they're saying but you're sure you agree with it? People like you let hitler into power. His unemployment and self sufficiency policies sounded quite good if you hadnt heard about the killing all the jews, gays, retards and other people he considered subhuman.
http://www.rnc.org/About/PartyPlatform/default.aspx?Section=8
I'm not surprised you havent read through it. How can these people claim to be their leadership is best for the world when they cant even grasp the concept of a paragraph.
No, I said I hadn't read the whole thing and that I assumed that I agree on most points. And now that I've had a chance to read it, I do disagree with the health care part. And I seriously doubt that part about people like me and Hitler. 1) because he was a facist. 2) America isn't killing "jews, gays, retards and other people considered subhuman" (your words not mine) to further political gain or personal hatered.
And yes, they could use some <p> </p>'s.
Originally posted by Ace
I was more interested in your ideas of the ideal government, similarly I'm also interested in Liberator's ideal government and society.
Linking to another website with similar ideas I don't think is as conductive to a discussion as stating what you think yourself.
Anyways, I'm sort of hoping to get everyone involved in this sort of discussion. Later on I'll post on ideas for what I think would be the ideal setup.
Also, for the time being, let's also keep from pointing fingers at each other and calling people who don't agree with you facists. :)
Well, they (the RNC) for the most part agree with my views of government. That is why I linked to them, cuz they can say it better then me.
My views; That government is suppose to be limited and small. That social programs such as the Medicare and SS are not what they're suppose to be doing with taxes. That featus' are actually humans and should have the right to life. That there should be execution of crimials that commit hainous acts such as murder
(1st degree) and the like. Also less taxes and less regulation of business.
Those is my view of what government should be, there's probably more, but I'm not in the mood to write it right now. So I hope this post has been more informative for you on my views.
-
Originally posted by HotSnoJ
No, I said I hadn't read the whole thing and that I assumed that I agree on most points. And now that I've had a chance to read it, I do disagree with the health care part. And I seriously doubt that part about people like me and Hitler. 1) because he was a facist. 2) America isn't killing "jews, gays, retards and other people considered subhuman" (your words not mine) to further political gain or personal hatered.
And yes, they could use some <p> </p>'s.
Well, they (the RNC) for the most part agree with my views of government. That is why I linked to them, cuz they can say it better then me.
My views; That government is suppose to be limited and small. That social programs such as the Medicare and SS are not what they're suppose to be doing with taxes. That featus' are actually humans and should have the right to life. That there should be execution of crimials that commit hainous acts such as murder
(1st degree) and the like. Also less taxes and less regulation of business.
Those is my view of what government should be, there's probably more, but I'm not in the mood to write it right now. So I hope this post has been more informative for you on my views.
No offense, but you're still toting party lines. My question is if you had a clean slate to work with what would be your ideal society.
Pretend you were given complete control to reform the United States completely in any way you wish. What would be your government system? If a democracy what type, the Greek style or a republic? How many divisions and checks and balances do you want? What would you have in place to ensure the Bible is law? How are you going to ensure that the media is morally straight? How are you going to ensure the size of the government is limited? What is going to be done education wise to protect Christianity?
Sure the US works, but what about secularism, "liberal activists" and other threats to Christendom that the US system allows for? You also mentioned religious tolerance. That's good and fine, but that opens the door towards agnosticism, atheism, etc. How are you going to make sure that Christianity stays the majority in your society and that it doesn't drift from that?
Seriously, these are the questions I want to see answers for. If you had complete control to create the nation and world you wanted, what would you do in the name of God?
I'd also like to hear Sandwich's ideas for an ideal Israel too, if he's lurking around here. Anyways, I'll post up my own wacko ideas shortly.
-
Originally posted by HotSnoJ
No, I said I hadn't read the whole thing and that I assumed that I agree on most points. And now that I've had a chance to read it, I do disagree with the health care part. And I seriously doubt that part about people like me and Hitler. 1) because he was a facist. 2) America isn't killing "jews, gays, retards and other people considered subhuman" (your words not mine) to further political gain or personal hatered.
I wasnt comparing you directly to Hitler or calling you a fascist, I was comparing your assumption of agreement with everything the site said with 1930's germanys acceptance of hitler because he wasnt all that bad in the start. Hitler got into power because he told the people exactly what they wanted to hear, its an extreme example but you should always read the small print, never assume that because you like one bit you'll like the rest.
-
Power to the people, so long as they don't talk.
;):p
-
or sneeze too loudly :P
-
Originally posted by Ace
Sure the US works, but what about secularism, "liberal activists" and other threats to Christendom that the US system allows for? You also mentioned religious tolerance. That's good and fine, but that opens the door towards agnosticism, atheism, etc. How are you going to make sure that Christianity stays the majority in your society and that it doesn't drift from that?
And why would I want just Christianity to be the majority in my society? ;) ;P
-
Originally posted by Knight Templar
Power to the people, so long as they don't talk.
The people are morons. They should be tested before being allowed any power.
-
Originally posted by Reez
that's cuz Sweden is the country of government ownership and blonde hookers. It works well!
yeah... we're slowly going more and more to the right, tho.
-
to the right, eh? so like, you no longer get a fat cheque from the government each month "just in case you need it comrade"? Stuff like that? :D:D Sweden, the most leftward leaning democracy on Earth. I think you would need about 50 years of right-ward sliding government to catch up to the where the world is, which you should be thankful for. Hopefully, it goes the other way around, and the world soon catches up to you..
-
Originally posted by karajorma
The people are morons. They should be tested before being allowed any power.
Starship troopers? :D
-
Exactly.
-
Originally posted by Rictor
to the right, eh? so like, you no longer get a fat cheque from the government each month "just in case you need it comrade"? Stuff like that? :D:D Sweden, the most leftward leaning democracy on Earth. I think you would need about 50 years of right-ward sliding government to catch up to the where the world is, which you should be thankful for. Hopefully, it goes the other way around, and the world soon catches up to you..
On the other hand, your furniture stores need to start giving what they promise. Ikea needs an assembly line that doesn't involve the consumer.
-
I saw this on the O' Reily Factor last night...
-
saw what?
-
Originally posted by ubermetroid
Starship troopers? :D
I actually meant more in terms of a test to see if they know the policies of the parties. There's too much of "I won't vote for party A cause they'll raise income tax" So they vote for party B who simply raise every other tax except income tax and end up paying more.
In addition to this an informed electorate is the biggest danger politicians like Blair or Bush face.
Plus when people see that voting is an earned right they'll use it more.
-
Originally posted by karajorma
Plus when people see that voting is an earned right they'll use it more.
and that their vote DOES have value.
-
With a more informed population who'd vote for the idiots we currently have in charge? The problem is too many people vote for the lesser of two evils.
-
thats true. informed voters would dethrone Bush and Blair is an instant. But with the corporate media playing yes-man to the politicians, whats the likelyhood of that happening?
-
That's why you need a test. It would be up to the voters to educate themselves. If they can't be arse except to listen to the claptrap the media puts out then they'll fail and won't get to vote.
-
Originally posted by karajorma
With a more informed population who'd vote for the idiots we currently have in charge? The problem is too many people vote for the lesser of two evils.
If course, the problem is that in the UK there isn;t really a lesser of 2 evils..... maybe the Lib Dems, but everyone knows they're not going to win. So you have labour (bush-pandering, PR-spinning, donation influenced murdoch worshippers), vs the tories (asylum seeker scapegoating, public spending cutting, isolationist opportunistic chancers). and they both supported the war, so you can't even split them on that.
And thats excluding not one but 2 fringe parties - the racist BNP, and the quasi racist, Kilroy-Silk (*hack* *spit*) UK independence party.
-
Actually most people consider Blair to be the lesser of two evils. I don't think many actually wanted Blair the last two elections. They just definately didn't want the tories back.
Even now the only reason why Blair gets any votes is cause people don't want to let the tories in.
-
Originally posted by karajorma
With a more informed population who'd vote for the idiots we currently have in charge? The problem is too many people vote for the lesser of two evils.
"The Dixie Chicks stated they were ashamed that President Bush came from Texas. I'm ashamed this is the best over 100 million voters could come up with" - ME
-
to be fair, Gore was just as bad as a candidate as Bush. Although I don't think Gore's father ever put the country in major debt.... and neither did Gore as VP... unlike Bush and Bush Jr... like father, like son
-
Gore would have been another Clinton, that is to say a wolf in sheep's clothing.
And its true - Britain doesn't seem to have a decent alternative. Labour is the polar opposite of everything they should be. Progressive my ass. Its as much a two party system as the US.
-
Originally posted by Reez
to be fair, Gore was just as bad as a candidate as Bush. Although I don't think Gore's father ever put the country in major debt.... and neither did Gore as VP... unlike Bush and Bush Jr... like father, like son
Then he wasn't as bad was he? :)
Yeah he was definately the lesser of two evils but even then he'd be better than Bush.
Originally posted by Rictor
Gore would have been another Clinton, that is to say a wolf in sheep's clothing.
And its true - Britain doesn't seem to have a decent alternative. Labour is the polar opposite of everything they should be. Progressive my ass. Its as much a two party system as the US.
Not quite Rictor. The Lib Dems do actually hold a modicum of power. It's just that they've been too stupid to weild it.
I'll agree with you on Labour though. If the founders of the party ever met Blair they'd knife him through the heart. Unfortunately the general public were far too stupid to ever see that the country would have been better off under old Labour.
-
I am.... extropian. :cool:
-
I still believe in pure undilated Communism... But that isn't gonna happen in any country with more then 5 citizens. :p
*runs*
-
Leftist, but not entirely liberal either. Does leftist automatically mean 'liberal' in any case?
-
no, only in countries that are traditionally right-winged. Liberal is considered radically right-winged in Sweden.
-
Originally posted by Reez
no, only in countries that are traditionally right-winged. Liberal is considered radically right-winged in Sweden.
But in Sweden it's legal to marry your own brother or sister :p
(And I'm not kidding)
-
Originally posted by Tiara
But in Sweden it's legal to marry your own brother or sister :p
(And I'm not kidding)
so that means you're just lying. cousins are okay, last I heard, but I've to say I haven't heard of such a case. ****ing animals are all legal tho.
-
Sweeet. :cool:
-
that speaks volumes bout them, the Swedes that is. They've discovered something more to the left of Liberalism, but not quite Communism.
good for them :D:D
and with those bestiality and incest laws, they're sure to be the greatest country like, ever.
but then they get really depressed with their perfect, shiny lives and kill themselves. karma's on the prowl, so watch your ass.
-
hey, what can you do when your closest neighbour lives 15km away?
-
so that would explain why the Swedes are so caring for animals of all types.
-
edit: wtf, I must have posted in the wrong place. my bad...
-
They do eat them, too. Is it the Swedes or the Norwegians who export all the reindeer meat?
-
You know what really tastes good? Elk, that's what.
-
Apparently, reindeer/caribou makes a very good replacement for beef.
-
Originally posted by Grey Wolf 2009
They do eat them, too. Is it the Swedes or the Norwegians who export all the reindeer meat?
didn't know it was such an industry. but then again, I don't talk to that many sami people either. they're kinda scarce in this part of the country.
-
There was an article a year or two ago in the paper about how many people in Britain were giving up beef because of the entire Mad Cow epidemic, and were turning to reindeer meat.
-
mmmmmmmm.... donnerblitzen...
-
Originally posted by Grey Wolf 2009
There was an article a year or two ago in the paper about how many people in Britain were giving up beef because of the entire Mad Cow epidemic, and were turning to reindeer meat.
Many as in none, seriously, I've never met anyone that's even seen reindeer meat let alone tried it let alone eat it over beef.
-
Originally posted by Grey Wolf 2009
There was an article a year or two ago in the paper about how many people in Britain were giving up beef because of the entire Mad Cow epidemic, and were turning to reindeer meat.
Many as in none, seriously, I've never met anyone that's even seen reindeer meat let alone tried it, let alone eat it over beef.
-
Originally posted by 01010
Many as in none, seriously, I've never met anyone that's even seen reindeer meat let alone tried it, let alone eat it over beef.
They sell venison in Sainsbury's. No idea if it came from reindeers though. Quite tasty actually. Not something I'd give up steak for but definately something I'd eat occasionally as a change :D