Hard Light Productions Forums

Modding, Mission Design, and Coding => The Modding Workshop => Topic started by: jdjtcagle on May 25, 2004, 06:31:30 pm

Title: Finally... Upgraded Orion Maps
Post by: jdjtcagle on May 25, 2004, 06:31:30 pm
Most Recent Version - FPS around 20 - 30-Link!!! (http://swooh.com/peon/jdjtcagle/orion_maps.rar)
Finally something I'm proud of something I made, UPGRADED ORION MAPS.  They look better, way better in my opinion :D
Now post screens somebody

EDIT: these pics do not have shinemaps and will look bright. so, somebody else take better pics of my maps

My Maps - Most Recent Version

(http://img15.imageshack.us/img15/7592/screen13.jpg)
Title: Finally... Upgraded Orion Maps
Post by: Bri_Dog on May 25, 2004, 06:51:15 pm
Very nice!

But something looks wrong in the second pic, and it's a tad too shiny.
Title: Finally... Upgraded Orion Maps
Post by: Lightspeed on May 25, 2004, 06:54:41 pm
I dont like it. The boosted contrast and the odd 'cloud map' look odd.

As for the shine.... "Look!!! its the GTD Mirror!"
Title: Finally... Upgraded Orion Maps
Post by: Jetmech Jr. on May 25, 2004, 06:56:30 pm
Im sorry to say, I agree with LS on this.

Its a good start though
Title: Finally... Upgraded Orion Maps
Post by: jdjtcagle on May 25, 2004, 07:00:07 pm
Edit: it's probally the Ambient Lighting

I'll post new pics in a moment

(http://img11.imageshack.us/img11/8913/screen00.jpg)
(http://img11.imageshack.us/img11/9374/screen01.jpg)

Ya, it's way!!! to shiny
Title: Finally... Upgraded Orion Maps
Post by: Lightspeed on May 25, 2004, 07:08:16 pm
I get it, you're not using any custom shinemaps. Thats why.

Either that, or the sun intensity is set to something odd.

@ jetmech: Start on what? they're the same size and colour depth as the stock ones, so...
Title: Finally... Upgraded Orion Maps
Post by: jdjtcagle on May 25, 2004, 07:11:40 pm
Oh and I wanted to know how to make them High Resolution??

Like DaBrain was doing
Title: Finally... Upgraded Orion Maps
Post by: Jetmech Jr. on May 25, 2004, 07:17:55 pm
Quote
Originally posted by jdjtcagle
UPGRADED ORION MAPS.
Title: Finally... Upgraded Orion Maps
Post by: jdjtcagle on May 25, 2004, 07:24:48 pm
Ok, slight change that I think fixed the lighting
Updated the link
Title: Finally... Upgraded Orion Maps
Post by: jdjtcagle on May 25, 2004, 07:29:46 pm
Oh crap, I don't currently have shinemaps. Can somebody else please take some pics
Title: Finally... Upgraded Orion Maps
Post by: Turambar on May 25, 2004, 07:48:16 pm
desaturate.

whoopdee doo.

now go in with a tiny brus and touch up every detail ! ;)
Title: Finally... Upgraded Orion Maps
Post by: jdjtcagle on May 25, 2004, 07:53:56 pm
Yes, but it does a LOT of justice. Plus I did add detail.
Title: Finally... Upgraded Orion Maps
Post by: Rictor on May 26, 2004, 02:20:25 am
I like it. The later pics more than the original ones you posted (bit of a shine there, eh :D:D), but all in all its a worth improvement. I like how you desaturated the Orion maps a bit, I always faulted it for being a tiny bit too blue.
Title: Finally... Upgraded Orion Maps
Post by: DaBrain on May 26, 2004, 06:55:50 am
Quote
Originally posted by jdjtcagle
Oh and I wanted to know how to make them High Resolution??

Like DaBrain was doing



You can't do high res maps, as long as you use the same size ;)

(256*256)

(At least use 512*512, but you should aim for 1024*1024)

I like the blue of the orion... perhaps a little bit blue won't be bad for your maps...


Perhaps I should write a guide of what I am doing with the maps.

But this week I will not get the time for this. I hope I'll have enough time to finish the Perseus this week...
But I'm not at home from Friday to Wednesday.

Edit: at home, not hat home ;)

My keyboard is broken, or something :p
Title: Finally... Upgraded Orion Maps
Post by: jdjtcagle on May 26, 2004, 07:39:03 am
Ok, dabrain ;)

I currently have a problem with freespace_open and my shining, but I don't have time to fix this. So, please tell me what they look like on your system
Title: Finally... Upgraded Orion Maps
Post by: Lightspeed on May 26, 2004, 08:06:42 am
If you use 1024² for capship tiling maps you'll need to make a close range texture LOD, or it's gonna kill everyone. We need someone to do proper texture LODs anyway, and as my modelling skills approach "0" I can't do it :rolleyes:


DaB, check your PMs :p
Title: Finally... Upgraded Orion Maps
Post by: karajorma on May 26, 2004, 08:08:16 am
Just turn off the shinemap when you take pics. :) We're supposed to be comparing the base texture anyway :)
Title: Finally... Upgraded Orion Maps
Post by: DaBrain on May 26, 2004, 08:49:59 am
Quote
Originally posted by Lightspeed
If you use 1024² for capship tiling maps you'll need to make a close range texture LOD, or it's gonna kill everyone. We need someone to do proper texture LODs anyway, and as my modelling skills approach "0" I can't do it :rolleyes:


DaB, check your PMs :p



Nah, some 3 or 4 MB maps won't kill anyone. (Super-duper 128 Mb VGA cards)


Checked my PMs, texture uploaded. :)
Title: Finally... Upgraded Orion Maps
Post by: Flaser on May 26, 2004, 08:55:30 am
Maybe its time someone does an UV for the Orion and a 2^n non-tiling texture - especially since HTL doesn't like using too many maps on a single model.
Title: Finally... Upgraded Orion Maps
Post by: TopAce on May 26, 2004, 09:00:34 am
It's nice! I quite like the 'greyish Orion'.
Title: Finally... Upgraded Orion Maps
Post by: J3Vr6 on May 26, 2004, 09:32:28 am
Quote
Originally posted by Flaser
Maybe its time someone does an UV for the Orion and a 2^n non-tiling texture - especially since HTL doesn't like using too many maps on a single model.



Fo sheezee
Title: Finally... Upgraded Orion Maps
Post by: Taristin on May 26, 2004, 10:00:35 am
Shut up.

Anyway, it's possible, but I've had bad experiences baking capships... the maps always come out funny... (shards really, even on really high degree settings)
Title: Finally... Upgraded Orion Maps
Post by: TopAce on May 26, 2004, 10:10:54 am
All we need are sharper textures. Especially for the turrets. I had my own stupid attempt in sharpening the textures of the Orion, but it became quite 'blocky'.
Title: Finally... Upgraded Orion Maps
Post by: Lightspeed on May 26, 2004, 11:10:12 am
Quote
Originally posted by DaBrain



Nah, some 3 or 4 MB maps won't kill anyone. (Super-duper 128 Mb VGA cards)


Checked my PMs, texture uploaded. :)


hehe... bad calculation:

3 MB main texture
4 MB shine map
~1 MB glow map
= 8 MB

now, a capship has about 6 different maps - so you have 48 MB per capship. Say, 4 capships in a mission, that'd be 192 MB, *only* for the capship textures. Then, thered be weapons, backgrounds, suns, etc... etc...
Title: Finally... Upgraded Orion Maps
Post by: StratComm on May 26, 2004, 12:09:00 pm
Never mind the fact that some of us are still trying to run on 32Mb cards.  Being a little conservative is a good thing here.
Title: Finally... Upgraded Orion Maps
Post by: jdjtcagle on May 26, 2004, 12:10:09 pm
Ok, with shinemaps turned off :)

(http://img15.imageshack.us/img15/8913/screen00.jpg)

(http://img15.imageshack.us/img15/9374/screen01.jpg)
Title: Finally... Upgraded Orion Maps
Post by: kasperl on May 26, 2004, 01:02:54 pm
Too grey.

Does anyone remember the blue&black maps someone did a long time ago? They had those little glowmapped windows, and made the ships look huge. They existed for the Coillusus, the Hecate, and the Orion IIRC. It was Deep_Eyes, Llivinlarge, or someone else ( :nervous: ) who made them.
Title: Finally... Upgraded Orion Maps
Post by: jdjtcagle on May 26, 2004, 01:07:43 pm
I think deep_eyes and they were way not freespace IIRC
Title: Finally... Upgraded Orion Maps
Post by: DaBrain on May 26, 2004, 01:09:38 pm
Looks like you have to start again.
Your maps are not tile-able anymore. That's what causes the visible lines between the texture-tiles.

But don't give up, create something better :)
Title: Finally... Upgraded Orion Maps
Post by: jdjtcagle on May 26, 2004, 01:17:35 pm
Wait what?? I'm not understanding?? :confused:
Title: Finally... Upgraded Orion Maps
Post by: Carl on May 26, 2004, 01:19:57 pm
he's saying your maps have seems.
Title: Finally... Upgraded Orion Maps
Post by: jdjtcagle on May 26, 2004, 01:23:00 pm
What did I do wrong??
Title: Finally... Upgraded Orion Maps
Post by: DaBrain on May 26, 2004, 03:35:57 pm
(http://www.ystart.net/upload/20040526/1085603525.jpg)


The boarder-areas of a tile-map have to look identical.
Title: Finally... Upgraded Orion Maps
Post by: Gregster2k on May 26, 2004, 03:40:52 pm
he means that the texture edges dont flow smoothly when tiled next to each other, they are disjointed.

as far as the actual map goes, despite my usual praise for upgraded maps I must say this is one thing I can't say is good. It looks like you simply added some tiled texture shading over the existing map and desaturated it. I don't see much in the way of "detail". This looks really, really bad. unless you can convince me otherwise with some *great* shinemaps that make up for these textures, I'll be preferring stock FS1/FS2 textures for the GTD Orion. It's a good attempt, but it is only an attempt, and not a success. =|
Title: Finally... Upgraded Orion Maps
Post by: jdjtcagle on May 26, 2004, 03:41:00 pm
Ohh... Gotcha ;)
Title: Finally... Upgraded Orion Maps
Post by: DaBrain on May 26, 2004, 03:53:43 pm
Looks like I need to work on my english :wtf: ...
Title: Finally... Upgraded Orion Maps
Post by: jdjtcagle on May 26, 2004, 04:15:32 pm
I was talking to you DaBrain, I wasn't talking to Gregster, we posted at the same time and I didn't noticed until now

EDIT: Oh and DaBrain, what you said about the colors. I realized that I kept my resolution in freespace on 1024*768*16
Title: Finally... Upgraded Orion Maps
Post by: Gregster2k on May 26, 2004, 05:13:15 pm
16 bit? Well...THAT would kinda screw some things up...somewhat. I DID notice some banding...
Title: Finally... Upgraded Orion Maps
Post by: jdjtcagle on May 26, 2004, 05:16:44 pm
Why don't people try these things in game??
just put them in your maps folder, play the game and THEN tell me what you think.
Title: Finally... Upgraded Orion Maps
Post by: DaBrain on May 26, 2004, 05:29:17 pm
Quote
Originally posted by jdjtcagle
I realized that I kept my resolution in freespace on 1024*768*16



That is not what causes the color problem.
It's in the textures as well.

Might be caused by the way you reduce the colors... or stuff :)
Title: Finally... Upgraded Orion Maps
Post by: jdjtcagle on May 26, 2004, 05:31:34 pm
uhh... that's a very big excuse, here I'll show you

Hmm... wierd, It has to be when I downed my color to 256
Title: Finally... Upgraded Orion Maps
Post by: jdjtcagle on May 26, 2004, 06:09:24 pm
its probally because I used Infranveiw to covert the images to 256 colors

Update:  Ok, redid all textures they are all Hi-Res and I promise they have new features.  I carefully did everything but now I'm stuck I don't know how to save the image in 256 colors in photoshop??? Can anybody help me???
Title: Finally... Upgraded Orion Maps
Post by: jdjtcagle on May 26, 2004, 07:38:35 pm
(http://img15.imageshack.us/img15/7592/screen13.jpg)

Link updated:  Most recent maps, everything should be fixed and better, especially the lighting I went through.  They are resized and yes they are also detailed, I just wanted to make that clear ;)

What do you think about this batch??
Later on I'm going to bring back some blue in it :)
Title: Finally... Upgraded Orion Maps
Post by: redsniper on May 26, 2004, 10:29:34 pm
it looks kinda blurry up close
Title: Finally... Upgraded Orion Maps
Post by: Turambar on May 26, 2004, 10:31:29 pm
yeah, the blurry and the fact that i can see that you just bluued over the pixellyness, but thats all ok, i do that ;)

the curvy thingies look better but need more work
Title: Finally... Upgraded Orion Maps
Post by: adwight on May 26, 2004, 10:36:10 pm
I love it, looks way better than the original.
Title: Finally... Upgraded Orion Maps
Post by: Turambar on May 27, 2004, 12:16:47 am
ok, i had a shot at redetailing one of the maps, heres how it turned out

(http://img16.imageshack.us/img16/685/2544.jpg)
Title: Finally... Upgraded Orion Maps
Post by: Raptor on May 27, 2004, 07:27:08 am
Quote
Originally posted by Turambar
http://img16.imageshack.us/img16/685/2544.jpg


Glad to see that some one is using the version of the Orion (with better turret models) I created.;)  Creates a warm feeling when you know your work is apreciated.
Title: Finally... Upgraded Orion Maps
Post by: jdjtcagle on May 27, 2004, 07:37:02 am
Tumrambar - yours looks excactly like the original except not so blurry. And your telling me to use a brush :wtf:  Lightspeed gave me some tips and I'l fix it later (the blurry and make it way smoother :))
Title: Finally... Upgraded Orion Maps
Post by: karajorma on May 27, 2004, 08:33:08 am
Quote
Originally posted by Raptor


Glad to see that some one is using the version of the Orion (with better turret models) I created.;)  Creates a warm feeling when you know your work is apreciated.


Might help if the link in your sig worked. :D

Angelfire doesn't allow remote linking etc...
Title: Finally... Upgraded Orion Maps
Post by: kasperl on May 27, 2004, 09:13:37 am
Quote
Originally posted by Raptor


Glad to see that some one is using the version of the Orion (with better turret models) I created.;)  Creates a warm feeling when you know your work is apreciated.


Is this just high poly'd? If so, be sure to add it to the wiki page about upgraded art.
Title: Finally... Upgraded Orion Maps
Post by: J3Vr6 on May 27, 2004, 09:26:19 am
There was an HTL Orion?!
Title: Finally... Upgraded Orion Maps
Post by: Lightspeed on May 27, 2004, 11:10:29 am
no.

There's an orion with turrets that aren't just a box.
Title: Finally... Upgraded Orion Maps
Post by: Turambar on May 27, 2004, 11:13:33 am
OK, i think i might take a liscence with the Orion maps and make the modern while trying to keep the same idea.  Right now it remainds me of a 70s era scifi Asimov book cover (second foundation i think) and i want to see what i can do with windows and less colorful lights and things.  Well see what happens...
Title: Finally... Upgraded Orion Maps
Post by: jdjtcagle on May 27, 2004, 11:17:54 am
the colorful lights is what inspired me to do this. I hate the orange and yellow crap :ick:
Title: Finally... Upgraded Orion Maps
Post by: jdjtcagle on May 27, 2004, 12:48:45 pm
Is this any better, lightspeed??

(http://img19.imageshack.us/img19/1822/capital01-01a.jpg)

(http://img11.imageshack.us/img11/1747/capital01-02a.jpg)
Title: Finally... Upgraded Orion Maps
Post by: Turambar on May 27, 2004, 02:00:49 pm
PIXELS!!!!! at least get rid of the pixels!  IF ITS ROUND THEN IT SHOULD BE SMOOTH

oh, sorry, caps lock ;)
Title: Finally... Upgraded Orion Maps
Post by: jdjtcagle on May 27, 2004, 02:10:09 pm
HOW?!? oops caps lock :D
Title: Finally... Upgraded Orion Maps
Post by: DaBrain on May 27, 2004, 02:19:00 pm
(http://img19.imageshack.us/img19/1822/capital01-01a.jpg)

These lights are way to bright.
I know, it's fun, but it's newbie-ish. Remember it will be flat in the game. That will make it look weird...
Also, you lowest lightsource will be cut-off again.(Tile problem)



BTW which tool do you use for this ?
Title: Finally... Upgraded Orion Maps
Post by: jdjtcagle on May 27, 2004, 02:20:31 pm
Yes, I look at it in-game horribly bright indeed. :nod:

What do you mean, tools??? I used photoshop
Title: Finally... Upgraded Orion Maps
Post by: DaBrain on May 27, 2004, 02:25:08 pm
That's what I ment. ;)
Title: Finally... Upgraded Orion Maps
Post by: jdjtcagle on May 27, 2004, 02:26:54 pm
so How do I get rid of pixles, Tubby???
Title: Finally... Upgraded Orion Maps
Post by: DaBrain on May 27, 2004, 02:35:54 pm
Check your PMs ;)
Title: Finally... Upgraded Orion Maps
Post by: TopAce on May 27, 2004, 02:54:59 pm
Quote
Originally posted by jdjtcagle
so How do I get rid of pixles, Tubby???


You can't. Images consist of pixels, such as models consist of polygons.
Title: Finally... Upgraded Orion Maps
Post by: jdjtcagle on May 27, 2004, 02:58:42 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Turambar
PIXELS!!!!! at least get rid of the pixels!  IF ITS ROUND THEN IT SHOULD BE SMOOTH

oh, sorry, caps lock ;)


Then what the hell is he talking about?? :confused:
Title: Finally... Upgraded Orion Maps
Post by: Turambar on May 27, 2004, 02:58:45 pm
Quote
Originally posted by TopAce


You can't. Images consist of pixels, such as models consist of polygons.


Allow me to clarify.

On higher resolutions, you are not limited as :V: was as far as sharpness and quality of textures.  When you look at an original :V: map and see a circle, there are edges on that circle where the smooth curve of the circle could not be accurately represented.  With higher resolutions and color depths, you can create a smooth, curved circle where the pixelated one was before, using the airbrush and normal brush tool, as well as dodge and burn.

Clarified?
Title: Finally... Upgraded Orion Maps
Post by: TopAce on May 27, 2004, 03:02:49 pm
No. :)
Title: Finally... Upgraded Orion Maps
Post by: Turambar on May 27, 2004, 03:18:34 pm
Open photoshop
open file
set to RBG mode (took me an hour to fgure that one out)
select brush with blurry edges
click the airbrush button at the top
set the opacity and flow to about 50%
find any curved area
alt-click the area
left click on the curve, drag over curve until aliased edges dissapear
save
repeat

better?
Title: Finally... Upgraded Orion Maps
Post by: TopAce on May 27, 2004, 03:21:47 pm
Sounds a bit better. I will need to try that.
Title: Finally... Upgraded Orion Maps
Post by: Turambar on May 27, 2004, 03:26:01 pm
and remember, the blur tool is your friend :D
Title: Finally... Upgraded Orion Maps
Post by: Raptor on May 27, 2004, 03:40:57 pm
Quote
Originally posted by karajorma


Might help if the link in your sig worked. :D

Angelfire doesn't allow remote linking etc...


Angelfire is no longer working the way this used to...:sigh:

Right-click, 'Save Target As...'   Works that way.

I'll edit Sig in a mo.

No, it is not an HTL Orion.  I only completely overhauled the turret models so that they were far better.  I'm most likely to do it again sometime in the future...
Title: Finally... Upgraded Orion Maps
Post by: Ulala on May 27, 2004, 05:28:46 pm
Need a high poly Orion. ;) Make the lights stick out, blink and crazy crap...
Title: Finally... Upgraded Orion Maps
Post by: Gregster2k on May 28, 2004, 03:29:01 pm
^----One thing at a time ;)
Title: Finally... Upgraded Orion Maps
Post by: Turambar on May 29, 2004, 06:37:52 am
ill post some screenshots of this idea i had.
So i put the lights from the Colossus/Diemos/most FS2 Era ships into the dark areas between the blue plates, which i darkened to blackness.  Now the Orion is really a city in the sky!  I added them to the glowmap.  With a little refinement, this one can be really impressive.
Title: Finally... Upgraded Orion Maps
Post by: jdjtcagle on May 29, 2004, 10:21:35 am
Whatever, sounds cool, I think I'm going to give up mine for the time being.  I' m just not getting the look I'm looking for. And please get rid of the yellow, prurple, and red looking crap. But leave the red lights.  Like I was doing, basically
Title: Finally... Upgraded Orion Maps
Post by: Turambar on May 31, 2004, 04:01:21 pm
(http://img17.imageshack.us/img17/9720/1469.jpg)
(http://img17.imageshack.us/img17/7596/1470.jpg)

ok, still rough, but hows it look?
Title: Finally... Upgraded Orion Maps
Post by: ShadowDrakken on May 31, 2004, 05:31:00 pm
looks alright, but WAY too bright
Title: Finally... Upgraded Orion Maps
Post by: Ace on May 31, 2004, 05:43:11 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Turambar
ok, i had a shot at redetailing one of the maps, heres how it turned out

(http://img16.imageshack.us/img16/685/2544.jpg)


Great work. It looks like the originals, but less blurry.

I'm not so much of a fan of the other one you posted later
Title: Finally... Upgraded Orion Maps
Post by: Taristin on May 31, 2004, 06:18:46 pm
Wow that ship looks like a box...
Title: Finally... Upgraded Orion Maps
Post by: Turambar on May 31, 2004, 07:50:27 pm
the second shot has the hull catching the sun at a bad angle, sorry
Title: Finally... Upgraded Orion Maps
Post by: jdjtcagle on May 31, 2004, 08:07:04 pm
Needs alot more detail, try to do what I was doing...
Title: Finally... Upgraded Orion Maps
Post by: Lightspeed on May 31, 2004, 08:12:11 pm
resizing with nearest neighbor? :rolleyes:
Title: Finally... Upgraded Orion Maps
Post by: jdjtcagle on May 31, 2004, 09:48:30 pm
No, the look of them... not the resizing problem deal.
Title: Finally... Upgraded Orion Maps
Post by: Lightspeed on June 01, 2004, 05:42:34 am
I didnt like that cloud overlay.
Title: Finally... Upgraded Orion Maps
Post by: TopAce on June 01, 2004, 03:17:39 pm
I fail to see any change. It may be more apparent if you included a reference picture of the original Orion.
Title: Finally... Upgraded Orion Maps
Post by: Flipside on June 01, 2004, 04:04:38 pm
That ship will always look halfway between a pinball machine and a level from the old arcade game 'Nemesis' to me :( It needs HT&Ling but I really wouldn't envy the poor bugger who has to try and model it :(
Title: Finally... Upgraded Orion Maps
Post by: Turambar on June 01, 2004, 04:14:39 pm
has nobody noticed the inclusion of the little, uniformly colored lights (top screenshots) where the large randomly-colored lights used to be (middle screenshot)

i havent touched the armored plate texture yet (no lights)
Title: Finally... Upgraded Orion Maps
Post by: jdjtcagle on June 01, 2004, 04:34:26 pm
Take bigger pictures, I barely noticed it.
Title: Finally... Upgraded Orion Maps
Post by: DaBrain on June 01, 2004, 05:05:23 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Turambar
has nobody noticed the inclusion of the little, uniformly colored lights (top screenshots) where the large randomly-colored lights used to be (middle screenshot)

i havent touched the armored plate texture yet (no lights)


Yes, I get what you want to create. I like the idea, but your realization is not good enough. (Well, that's for the so-far progress :) )
Title: Finally... Upgraded Orion Maps
Post by: Gregster2k on June 01, 2004, 05:58:22 pm
The ship IS a box, because thats how the GTA liked to design their ships. It's FS canon (I'm strongly against heavy modifications of any ship featured in a FreeSpace 2 ingame movie). Ever since Terrans and Vasudans became friends, ships in the FS universe underwent the equivalent of the change in automobile design from the 1970's and 80's to 2004 - they went from being extremely boxy and hard-edged to being super-cucumber-smoothed.

With the exception of the Colossus.

If someone ever HTL smooths the Orion please shoot me. Only a few details would be needed to spruce up that beautiful destroyer, by the way. And Turambar's interpretation of the textures is absolutely wonderful.

P.S. this thread has inspired me to do the OPPOSITE of what someone else said -- taking Deimos textures and putting them on an Orion? Nah, I plan to put Orion textures on a Deimos...grin*
Title: Finally... Upgraded Orion Maps
Post by: jdjtcagle on June 01, 2004, 06:20:49 pm
I have to disagree on many parts of that post... but that is just me
Title: Finally... Upgraded Orion Maps
Post by: Turambar on June 01, 2004, 06:30:47 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Gregster2k

If someone ever HTL smooths the Orion please shoot me. Only a few details would be needed to spruce up that beautiful destroyer, by the way. And Turambar's interpretation of the textures is absolutely wonderful.

...

P.S. this thread has inspired me to do the OPPOSITE of what someone else said -- taking Deimos textures and putting them on an Orion? Nah, I plan to put Orion textures on a Deimos...grin*[/SIZE]


you know what i like to hear

Edit: lol
Title: Finally... Upgraded Orion Maps
Post by: Flipside on June 01, 2004, 06:50:24 pm
No-one mentioned HT&L smoothing ;)
Title: Finally... Upgraded Orion Maps
Post by: Turambar on June 01, 2004, 06:55:11 pm
lol, a box with round edges
Title: Finally... Upgraded Orion Maps
Post by: Gregster2k on June 01, 2004, 06:55:54 pm
What i mean by smoothing is when people go downright overboard with HTL "improvements" to a ship and start rounding off every possible edge and making it look streamlined or overly detailed even when the original sported little detail and was not streamlined (and never was supposed to be).
Title: Finally... Upgraded Orion Maps
Post by: Taristin on June 01, 2004, 10:27:25 pm
Eew. Those maps make a UV Problem really obvious... :ick:
Title: Finally... Upgraded Orion Maps
Post by: jdjtcagle on June 01, 2004, 10:57:24 pm
yes... they need more detail, try and darken things around corners and around lights. Not everything has to be shown, the less the better :D

(http://img19.imageshack.us/img19/1822/capital01-01a.jpg)

Look at this, the lights are WAY to bright and it's alittle low resolution.  But, I think its a major improvement
Title: Finally... Upgraded Orion Maps
Post by: DaBrain on June 02, 2004, 08:33:41 am
Well, I gave it a shot too.

(15 min)

(http://www.ystart.net/upload/20040602/1086183053.jpg)
Title: Finally... Upgraded Orion Maps
Post by: Taristin on June 02, 2004, 08:37:11 am
See that bottom-most light? It can't overlap the end of the map. Otherwise it won't tile!

DB: Looking better. Does the little details you added in there also tile?
Title: Finally... Upgraded Orion Maps
Post by: J3Vr6 on June 02, 2004, 08:42:08 am
wow that looks really clear.  U deserve a hug.
Title: Finally... Upgraded Orion Maps
Post by: jdjtcagle on June 02, 2004, 08:43:42 am
Very nice :) :yes:
Title: Finally... Upgraded Orion Maps
Post by: TopAce on June 02, 2004, 09:09:39 am
Quote
Originally posted by Gregster2k
The ship IS a box, because thats how the GTA liked to design their ships. It's FS canon (I'm strongly against heavy modifications of any ship featured in a FreeSpace 2 ingame movie). Ever since Terrans and Vasudans became friends, ships in the FS universe underwent the equivalent of the change in automobile design from the 1970's and 80's to 2004 - they went from being extremely boxy and hard-edged to being super-cucumber-smoothed.

With the exception of the Colossus.

If someone ever HTL smooths the Orion please shoot me. Only a few details would be needed to spruce up that beautiful destroyer, by the way. And Turambar's interpretation of the textures is absolutely wonderful.

P.S. this thread has inspired me to do the OPPOSITE of what someone else said -- taking Deimos textures and putting them on an Orion? Nah, I plan to put Orion textures on a Deimos...grin*


I think the Orion is the best-looking FreeSpace ship. It is because your 'the higher the polygon count the nicer the ship' mania that you don't like it.
The sentence in Italic is valid for most of the community members, especially for modellers. Exceptions deserve a monthly $500 loan without interest.
Title: Finally... Upgraded Orion Maps
Post by: DaBrain on June 02, 2004, 09:17:24 am
Quote
Originally posted by Raa Tor'h
See that bottom-most light? It can't overlap the end of the map. Otherwise it won't tile!

DB: Looking better. Does the little details you added in there also tile?


I don't think so...

That's just an example, how it should look like.

On the other hand, it's an easy task, to make it tile-able.

edit: Nope, doesn't tile.

(http://www.8ung.at/dabrain/cap1.jpg)
Title: Finally... Upgraded Orion Maps
Post by: jdjtcagle on June 02, 2004, 09:25:47 am
That looks sooo... much better, I'm glad I made this thread :)
Title: Finally... Upgraded Orion Maps
Post by: DaBrain on June 02, 2004, 09:35:12 am
Uhm, I will not release this. I only wanted to help you, because IHMO you took the wrong way.
Title: Finally... Upgraded Orion Maps
Post by: jdjtcagle on June 02, 2004, 09:37:37 am
:confused:
Title: Finally... Upgraded Orion Maps
Post by: DaBrain on June 02, 2004, 09:53:58 am
Quote
Originally posted by jdjtcagle
:confused:

Ok... if you want it, then finish it. It is not perfect yet. (~90%)

And you might want to redo the shine map and perhaps the glow map, cause they were for testing purposes only.

http://www.8ung.at/dabrain/wip.zip


Notice: It tiles perfect now. ;)

Oh, I spent too much time playing around... cYa.
Title: Finally... Upgraded Orion Maps
Post by: Turambar on June 02, 2004, 02:31:18 pm
good, I'll be adding the lights to it and well see how it looks
Title: Finally... Upgraded Orion Maps
Post by: DaBrain on June 02, 2004, 02:49:09 pm
Better try to get rid of the lights on the texture.

It's better to have them only on the glow map.
Title: Finally... Upgraded Orion Maps
Post by: Turambar on June 02, 2004, 02:51:34 pm
ill try it

im workin a bit on the Artemis, then ill brush up the herc 2 for you, then ill do the orion

and finals in the middle of all that
Title: Finally... Upgraded Orion Maps
Post by: jdjtcagle on June 02, 2004, 05:05:13 pm
Worked with it, but not a whole lot of success
Title: Finally... Upgraded Orion Maps
Post by: Lightspeed on June 02, 2004, 07:10:57 pm
For love's sake. GET RID OF THE BRICKS.

They ruin it all, DaB :)

And finish the Perseus already ;)
Title: Finally... Upgraded Orion Maps
Post by: Flaser on June 02, 2004, 09:19:52 pm
I guess the whole tiled texturing ruins it. It would be much more sensible to use huge armor plates to cover most areas since all the seams in a "brick-work" make it more volnurable.
Title: Finally... Upgraded Orion Maps
Post by: Rictor on June 02, 2004, 09:37:07 pm
LS: What bricks? I'd love to see the Orion get retextured from scratch as much as the next guy, but right now this is about as good as its going to get.

great work DaBrain. You've really improved. But, as Confuscious once said, "Wise man finish one meal, before starting next." Finish the Perseus, its really a beauty.

And whats that little thing near the back of the Orion? Around the middle of the pic (horizontally), and about 2/3 down vertically.
Title: Finally... Upgraded Orion Maps
Post by: Lightspeed on June 03, 2004, 02:25:58 am
I mean those little bricks DaB added as a texturizer filter.
Title: Finally... Upgraded Orion Maps
Post by: DaBrain on June 03, 2004, 08:14:38 am
Yeah, old pice of work....
But I like it.
I believe that only people who know the 'brickwall-effect'
will notice it.


Same thing fot the standard lensflare...
If I see it in an image, I somehow hate the whole picture, for no reason. Only because I know it's cheap to create.
Even though it doesn't look bad.
Title: Finally... Upgraded Orion Maps
Post by: JarC on June 03, 2004, 10:05:14 am
Quote
Originally posted by kasperl
Does anyone remember the blue&black maps someone did a long time ago? They had those little glowmapped windows, and made the ships look huge.
did you mean this one?
(http://freespace.kicks-ass.net/_images/fs/capital01-01a.jpg)

This is how it looks on the model (texturing was done by Psycho)
(http://freespace.kicks-ass.net/_images/fs/orion01.jpg)
(http://freespace.kicks-ass.net/_images/fs/orion02.jpg)

Honestly speaking, I think it is impossible to re-texture the Orion without redoing the UV...one problem is that the capital01-01a texture is used as a tiled and as a tiled/stretched texture (bottom and right side protrusion), which makes it look terrible
Title: Finally... Upgraded Orion Maps
Post by: Lightspeed on June 03, 2004, 11:02:00 am
This does not look huge. It looks crap. :)

But the windows are indeed nice. I doubt you could add that to the Orion skin, though.
Title: Finally... Upgraded Orion Maps
Post by: Taristin on June 03, 2004, 11:57:44 am
I wonder... if I baked an orion, and left the mapping up to one of you guys to play with, how could it be improved...? I hate the Orion. Always have. Always will.

Mmmmm... Typhon.....
Title: Finally... Upgraded Orion Maps
Post by: kasperl on June 03, 2004, 12:19:39 pm
Quote
Originally posted by JarC
did you mean this one?


No.

I meant the one with all the tiny little blue windows on the hull. It was someone with a green avatar with white letters in it.
Title: Finally... Upgraded Orion Maps
Post by: jdjtcagle on June 03, 2004, 12:25:03 pm
I don't know but I do remember them, because I saw them when I first came here and they caught my eye
Title: Finally... Upgraded Orion Maps
Post by: jdjtcagle on June 03, 2004, 12:25:03 pm
I don't know but I do remember them, because I saw them when I first came here and they caught my eye

EDIT:  How the hell did this post twice?? :wtf:
Title: Finally... Upgraded Orion Maps
Post by: DaBrain on June 03, 2004, 01:15:51 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Rictor

great work DaBrain. You've really improved.  



Well, I don't think so, it's just that I'm using more time for it...
I don't think there is "skill".

Everybody can do it, but the higher the "skill", the shorter it will take.

Even somebody who has 100% no clue can do it, but he needs very long to learn how to do it, before he can start to work.
Title: Finally... Upgraded Orion Maps
Post by: Nico on June 03, 2004, 01:32:24 pm
Quote
Originally posted by DaBrain
Uhm, I will not release this. I only wanted to help you, because IHMO you took the wrong way.


You too are taking it the wrong way. The right way is to make it again from scratch.
Title: Finally... Upgraded Orion Maps
Post by: karajorma on June 03, 2004, 02:06:17 pm
Quote
Originally posted by JarC
did you mean this one?


I suspect he means these (http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php/topic,16884.0.html)
Title: Finally... Upgraded Orion Maps
Post by: TopAce on June 03, 2004, 02:12:46 pm
Quote
Originally posted by JarC
did you mean this one?
(http://freespace.kicks-ass.net/_images/fs/capital01-01a.jpg)

This is how it looks on the model (texturing was done by Psycho)
(http://freespace.kicks-ass.net/_images/fs/orion01.jpg)
(http://freespace.kicks-ass.net/_images/fs/orion02.jpg)
...


Good for diversifying the good old Orion. :)
Title: Finally... Upgraded Orion Maps
Post by: kasperl on June 03, 2004, 02:58:30 pm
Quote
Originally posted by karajorma


I suspect he means these (http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php/topic,16884.0.html)


The images are down, but judging from the comments (and my foggy memory), yeah, those.
Title: Finally... Upgraded Orion Maps
Post by: Turambar on June 03, 2004, 09:26:23 pm
OK, so i took DaB's textures, resized them, and grafted lights on where the pipes were.  THen i put the same lights onto the other oldschool lookin' superstructure thingy, but one shot has the old one still.  well, here goes.

(http://img25.imageshack.us/img25/2362/139.jpg)
(http://img25.imageshack.us/img25/1970/143.jpg)
(http://img25.imageshack.us/img25/9789/145.jpg)
Title: Finally... Upgraded Orion Maps
Post by: Taristin on June 03, 2004, 09:32:05 pm
Still an ugly ship. :ick:
Title: Finally... Upgraded Orion Maps
Post by: jdjtcagle on June 03, 2004, 09:48:51 pm
I would like it if was desaturated a bit, just alittle
Title: Finally... Upgraded Orion Maps
Post by: redsniper on June 03, 2004, 11:11:02 pm
The textures are great but the Orion model is showing it's age, badly. We just need an HTL Orion.
Title: Finally... Upgraded Orion Maps
Post by: Singh on June 04, 2004, 12:04:44 am
Dangit.......one of these days I gotta get out Lithunwrap and figure out how to use it......
Title: Finally... Upgraded Orion Maps
Post by: DaBrain on June 04, 2004, 03:10:56 am
Quote
Originally posted by Turambar
... but one shot has the old one still.  well, here goes.

 



I guess it's this one, cause the lights are super-ugly ;)

(http://img25.imageshack.us/img25/1970/143.jpg)
Title: Finally... Upgraded Orion Maps
Post by: Lightspeed on June 04, 2004, 04:34:12 am
You could always try baking it Raa. I'd definately give it a try :)
Title: Finally... Upgraded Orion Maps
Post by: karajorma on June 04, 2004, 05:27:35 am
Quote
Originally posted by kasperl
The images are down, but judging from the comments (and my foggy memory), yeah, those.


They were up when I linked to it and just now. Probably a temporary bandwidth restriction.
Title: Finally... Upgraded Orion Maps
Post by: TopAce on June 04, 2004, 09:45:42 am
Can we ask a Beta Release?
Title: Finally... Upgraded Orion Maps
Post by: karajorma on June 04, 2004, 10:42:29 am
Quote
Originally posted by Singh
Dangit.......one of these days I gotta get out Lithunwrap and figure out how to use it......


*points singh at MG models needing unwrapping*

Feel free to play :D
Title: Finally... Upgraded Orion Maps
Post by: Turambar on June 04, 2004, 12:54:08 pm
you want a beta?  You got a beta!
but you'll have to wait 'till I get home and put them up on the Swooh, then you'll have to wait for the Swooh download to complete.

I guess ill put out my new matching-color thrusters too
Hate how theres that blue part when you hit the burners?  Well i got rid of it with the species_defs.tbl and ill upload it.  I might put up my firey interperetation of the Vasudan Thrusters (see Inferno thread: The Change has Begun) too.  

And ill need more criticism on those Orion maps too.

Oh, and i got Artemis maps and *gasp* Erinyes maps in late and early stages of completion respectively
Title: Finally... Upgraded Orion Maps
Post by: jdjtcagle on June 04, 2004, 12:58:54 pm
*gasp*:eek:  Erinyes, hell that would be a challenge...
Title: Finally... Upgraded Orion Maps
Post by: Taristin on June 04, 2004, 01:03:54 pm
Hell, I'm practising on the Bakha, and man is that hard... makes me appreciate their efforts even more.
Title: Finally... Upgraded Orion Maps
Post by: Turambar on June 04, 2004, 01:09:30 pm
the Bahka is just a bunch of annoying little details and little aliased lines to fix, along with reglowmapping it and making temporary shinemaps so it doesnt look like sh!t ingame.  Erinyes means making all those pipes look detailed, making the plates look less like a piece of poop, and making the whole thing cleaner overall.
Title: Finally... Upgraded Orion Maps
Post by: TopAce on June 04, 2004, 01:27:26 pm
Prefer the Erinyes to the Bakha, players encounter more of them than Bakhas.
Title: Finally... Upgraded Orion Maps
Post by: Taristin on June 04, 2004, 03:19:24 pm
Bakha has no glowmapping... it's the strangest looking bomber in the game. I'm only doing it to practice. So far... it still looks like poo...
Title: Finally... Upgraded Orion Maps
Post by: DaBrain on June 04, 2004, 06:25:39 pm
The Bakha is one one of the best looking vasudan ships.

Plus the map is not that bad.

But add some glowpoint on the inner-parts.
Title: Finally... Upgraded Orion Maps
Post by: Turambar on June 05, 2004, 09:49:13 am
http://swooh.com/peon/Turambar/Maps/Orion%20WIP/

heres my Orion maps

Edit: Well, technically theyre the Dabrain-Turambar Orion Maps because i used his nicely detailed maps to start with
Title: Finally... Upgraded Orion Maps
Post by: Turnsky on June 05, 2004, 11:39:32 am
Quote
Originally posted by redsniper
The textures are great but the Orion model is showing it's age, badly. We just need an HTL Orion.


seconded..
i mean, come on people, the herc and the fenris got the HTL treatment, why not the ever venerable orion?:nod:
Title: Finally... Upgraded Orion Maps
Post by: jdjtcagle on June 05, 2004, 11:47:43 am
In-Fact a HTL capship period would be good...  But I have always what an Orion would look like High-Poly :nod:
Title: Finally... Upgraded Orion Maps
Post by: Turnsky on June 05, 2004, 11:57:10 pm
Quote
Originally posted by jdjtcagle
In-Fact a HTL capship period would be good...  But I have always what an Orion would look like High-Poly :nod:


precisely, since in FS2 we spend most of our time looking at capships.. we have to make them look pretty

altho, i do i have one idea, also give the turrets the HTL treatment.
Title: Finally... Upgraded Orion Maps
Post by: Bobboau on June 06, 2004, 02:18:45 am
before anyone says anything, 100-300 poly turrets would likely have no negetive effects at all.
Title: Finally... Upgraded Orion Maps
Post by: Turnsky on June 06, 2004, 02:28:39 am
Quote
Originally posted by Bobboau
before anyone says anything, 100-300 poly turrets would likely have no negetive effects at all.


yeah, i meant that the turrets /do/ look a bit on the ugly side, actually, most of them do, some of them look too simplistic in overall look.. (box with square or triangular barrels) something to make them /look/ the part, shouldn't be too hard to make them look at least a little better than they are now, without comprimising on the original design, of course.
Title: Finally... Upgraded Orion Maps
Post by: Bri_Dog on June 06, 2004, 02:53:32 am
Put blinking runway lights on the Orion!
Title: Finally... Upgraded Orion Maps
Post by: Nico on June 06, 2004, 04:06:59 am
Quote
Originally posted by Bobboau
before anyone says anything, 100-300 poly turrets would likely have no negetive effects at all.


You gotta have a reality check, Bob. It does have an impact.
Title: Finally... Upgraded Orion Maps
Post by: Bobboau on June 06, 2004, 04:13:02 am
not as much as haveing turrets with more than one texture on it, DX8 is optomised for 1000-3000 poly batches if you use less that 1000 polys the game stalls, so haveing 300 poly turret is actualy more than a third to few to have everything running it's best.
Title: Finally... Upgraded Orion Maps
Post by: DaBrain on June 06, 2004, 06:16:05 am
Quote
Originally posted by Turambar
http://swooh.com/peon/Turambar/Maps/Orion%20WIP/

heres my Orion maps

Edit: Well, technically theyre the Dabrain-Turambar Orion Maps because i used his nicely detailed maps to start with


:yes:  Nice, but the parts you copied in look rather blocky.

And the glowmap is ... horrible. :p
But keep it up.

Edit: 512² is enough, the map is too blury for 1024².
Title: Finally... Upgraded Orion Maps
Post by: karajorma on June 06, 2004, 07:29:42 am
Quote
Originally posted by Bobboau
not as much as haveing turrets with more than one texture on it, DX8 is optomised for 1000-3000 poly batches if you use less that 1000 polys the game stalls, so haveing 300 poly turret is actualy more than a third to few to have everything running it's best.


Are you actually saying that we should make 1000 poly turrets for all our ships? :eek:
Title: Finally... Upgraded Orion Maps
Post by: Taristin on June 06, 2004, 10:16:37 am
That'd be frickin cool... But alot of unnoticed detail.
Title: Finally... Upgraded Orion Maps
Post by: Raptor on June 06, 2004, 11:24:23 am
Quote
Originally posted by Turnsky


yeah, i meant that the turrets /do/ look a bit on the ugly side, actually, most of them do, some of them look too simplistic in overall look.. (box with square or triangular barrels) something to make them /look/ the part, shouldn't be too hard to make them look at least a little better than they are now, without comprimising on the original design, of course.


Already done once, by me.  Turambar is using my fisrt release.  Check Sig.;)

Planing a Mark II version to my 'Reguned' version.