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Off-Topic Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: diamondgeezer on June 18, 2004, 02:16:11 pm

Title: Energize, Mr O'Brien
Post by: diamondgeezer on June 18, 2004, 02:16:11 pm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/3811785.stm
Title: Energize, Mr O'Brien
Post by: ARothers on June 18, 2004, 02:20:26 pm
Good lord, I knew it was possible! :eek2:
Title: Energize, Mr O'Brien
Post by: Styxx on June 18, 2004, 02:24:34 pm
Neato, huh?
Title: Energize, Mr O'Brien
Post by: J3Vr6 on June 18, 2004, 02:43:06 pm
Cool beans.
Title: Energize, Mr O'Brien
Post by: Taristin on June 18, 2004, 02:47:45 pm
*waits another 20 years for an ansible network to be established*
Title: Energize, Mr O'Brien
Post by: Ashrak on June 18, 2004, 02:52:46 pm
sweeeeeet
Title: Energize, Mr O'Brien
Post by: redsniper on June 18, 2004, 02:56:08 pm
what'll be cool, will be when you can order stuff from the internet and have it teleported directly to your house. No more waiting for the mail to bring it.
Title: Energize, Mr O'Brien
Post by: Jiggyhound on June 18, 2004, 03:01:41 pm
or i can make cups of tea for my messenger/irc peeps
:D
Title: Energize, Mr O'Brien
Post by: Knight Templar on June 18, 2004, 03:03:15 pm
w00t
Title: Energize, Mr O'Brien
Post by: TrashMan on June 18, 2004, 03:06:23 pm
Get your bearings together... teleportation is EONS away from any practical usage, and even then I very much doubt it will be possible to beam people and stuff like in ST.

I actually did quite a lot of resaerch into this (and other ST technologies), and I can tell you this....

I VERY, VERY much doubt it....
Title: Energize, Mr O'Brien
Post by: Rictor on June 18, 2004, 03:07:32 pm
Ay can'nea doo it ser, the quantum matrix projectrs are down! Ah'll have te turn em back on manually! Jes try to hold off de Romulans fer a while moure!
Title: Energize, Mr O'Brien
Post by: Jiggyhound on June 18, 2004, 03:08:31 pm
nanotechnology + quantum computers = teh rock

the futures bright, the futures - ruled by machines! gah!
Title: Energize, Mr O'Brien
Post by: StratComm on June 18, 2004, 03:09:30 pm
*resists*
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Gah, I can't do it.  Sorry TrashMan.

Any research into "Star Trek Science" is a complete waste of time.  You'll learn more useful information by reading an 11th grade Physics textbook, and you won't have to contend with factual stretches at all.
Title: Energize, Mr O'Brien
Post by: Liberator on June 18, 2004, 03:21:34 pm
Nifty.  I don't think we'll see quantum computers on our desktop anywhere close to within our lifetimes as most scientists I see interviewed about that kind of stuff seem to think we've hit the limit as to how small we can make technology of that sophistication.
Title: Energize, Mr O'Brien
Post by: IceFire on June 18, 2004, 03:21:39 pm
Likely not going to be teleporting Starbucks coffee to your kitchen table but as the articles coming out mention, this may provide for a very fast method of quantum computing and rediculously fast computers in the future.
Title: Energize, Mr O'Brien
Post by: Stealth on June 18, 2004, 03:46:10 pm
yeah  the application's most likely going to be more technological, and not as much noticeable.
Title: Energize, Mr O'Brien
Post by: Sandwich on June 18, 2004, 03:54:11 pm
Quote
Originally posted by StratComm

Any research into "Star Trek Science" is a complete waste of time.  You'll learn more useful information by reading an 11th grade Physics textbook, and you won't have to contend with factual stretches at all.


No offense, but that's bull. Not just ST specifically, but sci-fi in general is responsible for the original ideas that lead to numerous scientific breakthroughs. Don't diss sci-fi - it's more accurate than you may think (although the timing is generally way off :p).
Title: Energize, Mr O'Brien
Post by: TrashMan on June 18, 2004, 05:12:00 pm
Quote
Originally posted by StratComm
Any research into "Star Trek Science" is a complete waste of time.  You'll learn more useful information by reading an 11th grade Physics textbook, and you won't have to contend with factual stretches at all.


Duh... I have consulted physics books and several renowned physics professors, of whom one of them is actually leading the antimatter project at CERN...
I was researching the plausability of ST science...:ick:

And NO...people will not be a ble to teleport...sorry kiddies!:D
Title: Energize, Mr O'Brien
Post by: diamondgeezer on June 18, 2004, 05:14:53 pm
Quote
Originally posted by TrashMan
And NO...people will not be a ble to teleport...sorry kiddies!:D

Quote
Originally posted by TrashMan
Duh...
Title: Energize, Mr O'Brien
Post by: Carl on June 18, 2004, 05:55:30 pm
just as well. with quantum teleportation, you don't actually go anywhere. a copy of you is made, and the original is killed.
Title: Energize, Mr O'Brien
Post by: Martinus on June 18, 2004, 06:13:55 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Carl
just as well. with quantum teleportation, you don't actually go anywhere. a copy of you is made, and the original is killed.

[color=66ff00]That entirely depends on the nature of that little black box known as the soul.

If science is right then your soul is simply your neural connections and thus if you replicate them somewhere else then where the body is, the soul is.

Of course that's a big assumption.

Still, you make a sweeping statement about something there's no way you can be sure about Trashman, I hate to sound like Kazan here but where's your proof? There's no evidence that dictates that people cannot be transported, our bodies are built of atoms so the possibility exists.

Personally I look forward to teleportation mail ordering. :D
[/color]
Title: Energize, Mr O'Brien
Post by: Martinus on June 18, 2004, 06:20:20 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Sandwich


No offense, but that's bull. Not just ST specifically, but sci-fi in general is responsible for the original ideas that lead to numerous scientific breakthroughs. Don't diss sci-fi - it's more accurate than you may think (although the timing is generally way off :p).

[color=66ff00]It seems to me that old sci-fi had more of an effect on science than new sci-fi. With a few exceptions new sci-fi tries to blind the audience with 'clever' technobabble and overthought scientific nuances. (ST:VOY is a prime example of this).

Old sci-fi just took cool ideas like communicators and faster than light drives, didn't kill itself on the details, and let the scientists ask the question: "gee guys, do you think we can do this?".
[/color]
Title: Energize, Mr O'Brien
Post by: Liberator on June 18, 2004, 07:37:04 pm
:nod:
Title: Energize, Mr O'Brien
Post by: Corsair on June 19, 2004, 12:09:25 am
Quote
Originally posted by Raa Tor'h
*waits another 20 years for an ansible network to be established*
What do we need an ansible network for? We don't have any space colonies...

Beam me up, Scotty!
Title: Energize, Mr O'Brien
Post by: Gortef on June 19, 2004, 03:42:35 am
w00f!
Title: Energize, Mr O'Brien
Post by: Tiara on June 19, 2004, 03:50:11 am
Quote
Originally posted by StratComm
Any research into "Star Trek Science" is a complete waste of time.  You'll learn more useful information by reading an 11th grade Physics textbook, and you won't have to contend with factual stretches at all.

Bio computers? Done in ST, then done in real life.

Energy weapons? Done in ST, done in real life.

Teleportation? Done in ST, done in real life.

Etc etc.

Not that any of the technology is of practical use yet but it's all still in a very infantile stage.
Title: Energize, Mr O'Brien
Post by: TrashMan on June 19, 2004, 06:17:09 am
Quote
Originally posted by Maeglamor
That entirely depends on the nature of that little black box known as the soul.

If science is right then your soul is simply your neural connections and thus if you replicate them somewhere else then where the body is, the soul is.

Of course that's a big assumption.


Erm....wrong...they don't say that for soul, but rather for tought.
And tough is not just emp pulses or energy, but rather electrons reacting with neurons... The biological component AND energy together... (so no energy beeings...HATED that in ST)

And let's assume you actually can copy every atom in the body...thus you can replicate the brain. But can you replecate the energy pulses in the brain itself (those are NOT atoms...)

Thus, will the "other you" that appears on the other transporter pad be you, a lifless slupm of flesh, or a copy that is NOT you(has different toughts or none of you memories)?????
Title: Energize, Mr O'Brien
Post by: Tiara on June 19, 2004, 07:03:05 am
Meh, if they find a way to tranport inanimate objects in my lifetime I'm happy :p
Title: Energize, Mr O'Brien
Post by: Falcon on June 19, 2004, 12:03:24 pm
Teleportation would be good...... Replicators would be better.... *Computer give me an AK-47 and some tea earl gray hot please*
Title: Energize, Mr O'Brien
Post by: Black Wolf on June 19, 2004, 12:33:38 pm
One thing that pissed me off in Star Trek. Picard proved the Borg got their arses kicked by Projectile weapons on the holodeck. And yet, the Federation never replicated any projectile weapons for use against them. Personally, I don;t think the federation are particularly bright.
Title: Energize, Mr O'Brien
Post by: Falcon on June 19, 2004, 12:55:48 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Black Wolf
One thing that pissed me off in Star Trek. Picard proved the Borg got their arses kicked by Projectile weapons on the holodeck. And yet, the Federation never replicated any projectile weapons for use against them. Personally, I don;t think the federation are particularly bright.


Exactly..... but then it would have been all to easy..... *Worf comes out holding a minigun in his hands mowing away the countless borg that threaten the Federation* :lol:
Title: Energize, Mr O'Brien
Post by: Knight Templar on June 19, 2004, 01:37:06 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Black Wolf
One thing that pissed me off in Star Trek. Picard proved the Borg got their arses kicked by Projectile weapons on the holodeck. And yet, the Federation never replicated any projectile weapons for use against them. Personally, I don;t think the federation are particularly bright.


Yes... it's kind of odd that the Borg, in all the infinite vastness as an empire and force of nature, have never been stopped by a race that happens to use mass drivers, or particle accelerators, or plain old fire arms instead of phasers and disruptors and 'fancy guns' ... You think one of the 10,000 races in Star Trek would have tried that.
Title: Energize, Mr O'Brien
Post by: Admiral LSD on June 19, 2004, 01:56:43 pm
Actually the federation have made at least one projectile weapon it was mentioned in that DS9 episode with the Vulcan guy who was killing people and in order to find him Ezri had to draw on that psycho guy who once hosted Dax. It was designed for environments where regular phasers wouldn't work but Starfleet abandoned it in favour of regenerative phaser howevers they left replicator plans for it in the database so anyone with sufficient security clearance could replicate it (which was how both the Vulcan guy and O'Brien were able to get  it).
Title: Energize, Mr O'Brien
Post by: Knight Templar on June 19, 2004, 03:09:44 pm
So what's with them not installing them as standard issue on every Starfleet vessel for when the Borg happen to come back?
Title: Energize, Mr O'Brien
Post by: diamondgeezer on June 19, 2004, 03:28:14 pm
Starfleet must have graduated from the same school as FS' Command Dude

What they ought to do is have a Defiant-class named Alpha One and watch the cubes die in droves :nod:
Title: Energize, Mr O'Brien
Post by: Tiara on June 19, 2004, 03:43:08 pm
:wtf:

Holodeck = photons = energy = NOT KINETIC ENERGY

The Federation has projectile weapons (as seen in DS9). They really aren't stupid enough not to use them if they would be effective.

And i'm still pissed at that damned Spanish refferee :mad:
Title: Energize, Mr O'Brien
Post by: diamondgeezer on June 19, 2004, 03:57:23 pm
Ha ha. ****ing legendary game. Nice one Czechs :D
Title: Energize, Mr O'Brien
Post by: Tiara on June 19, 2004, 03:58:44 pm
Quote
Originally posted by diamondgeezer
Ha ha. ****ing legendary game. Nice one Czechs :D

***** :p
Title: Energize, Mr O'Brien
Post by: ChronoReverse on June 19, 2004, 10:15:42 pm
Erm, actually, the Holodeck includes replicators that create real object to interact with as well.  Therefore, those Tommy Guns "could" have been firing real projectiles if the holodeck program decided to do so with the safeties off.  Of course, they don't actually tell us ;)


In any case, I was of the impression that the Borg drones were killed because they were adapted for phasers and not projectiles.  That's why Picard and Co had to hightail it after killing the drones since the next wave would probably have adapted to the tommy guns.



And this isn't even teleportation.  They just replicated the state of a particle onto another particle.  If anything, it'll be a thought experiment to decide whether the copy will be "living" and "thinking".

A thought experiment since it'll never happen within our lifetimes.
Title: Energize, Mr O'Brien
Post by: Knight Templar on June 20, 2004, 12:25:36 am
How would they 'adapt' to projectile weapons? :wtf:
Title: Energize, Mr O'Brien
Post by: ChronoReverse on June 20, 2004, 01:16:52 am
Eh?  Same way you adapt to normal weapon... "modulate the shields"

On a more serious note, what makes you think that their energy shields can't also be force fields?  They have plenty of those.
Title: Energize, Mr O'Brien
Post by: Knight Templar on June 20, 2004, 01:29:49 am
Yes, but the whole point of 'modulating the shields' is that they are adding that phaser frequency or whatever into their shields or whatever, which makes them block it. Last I checked, bullets didn't have frequencies, and if they did, then you should learn to use swords/knives better. Unless you're telling me they should just modulate the shields again....
Title: Energize, Mr O'Brien
Post by: Tiara on June 20, 2004, 02:25:04 am
Quote
Originally posted by ChronoReverse
Erm, actually, the Holodeck includes replicators that create real object to interact with as well.  Therefore, those Tommy Guns "could" have been firing real projectiles if the holodeck program decided to do so with the safeties off.  Of course, they don't actually tell us ;)

Replicators are probably only for the food as you can't take the props out of the holodeck (unless you want a madman to be able to take weapons from the holodeck) :p

KT, the federation shows that they possess shielding that blocks KE. As in security forcefields, ship shields, containment forcefields etc. Borg have assimilated Feddie ships thus Borg must have KE shielding they can use to adapt to.
Title: Energize, Mr O'Brien
Post by: Knight Templar on June 20, 2004, 02:46:01 am
They've never shown to have that on drones though.
Title: Energize, Mr O'Brien
Post by: Tiara on June 20, 2004, 03:04:08 am
Quote
Originally posted by Knight Templar
They've never shown to have that on drones though.

Because they never used projectile weapons. Besides the odd fist of bladed weapon they never had to adapt. And why adapt to fists and blades? They repair that damage almost instantly. As the Borg would say; "It's inefficient use of our energy." :p
Title: Energize, Mr O'Brien
Post by: karajorma on June 20, 2004, 03:06:12 am
Never had a reason to. As Tiara says, if Picard had continued to use the tommy gun we would have seen it but as it was the borg were surprised.
Title: Energize, Mr O'Brien
Post by: Hippo on June 20, 2004, 08:55:46 am
I was under the assumption that in theory, the Holodeck made a bullet shaped force-field (along with the gun, and the people, etc) and then projected the bullet onto the frcefield, and then pretty much geo-modded itself through the scenery, and when it came to the borg, well, a fast moving force field that has the same resiliancy as  bulet would kill if the computer wasn't told not to let anything kll...
Title: Energize, Mr O'Brien
Post by: Tiara on June 20, 2004, 09:16:04 am
Quote
Originally posted by Hippo
I was under the assumption that in theory, the Holodeck made a bullet shaped force-field (along with the gun, and the people, etc) and then projected the bullet onto the frcefield, and then pretty much geo-modded itself through the scenery, and when it came to the borg, well, a fast moving force field that has the same resiliancy as  bulet would kill if the computer wasn't told not to let anything kll...

Except that it is an energy forcefield. Energy impacts do not create Kinetic Energy because it has no mass ->

KE = 1/2mv^2.
When m = 0 then KE = 0

Simple physics.
Title: Energize, Mr O'Brien
Post by: Hippo on June 20, 2004, 09:27:08 am
It doesn't need kenetic energy... It is something that for all intensive purposes can be considered solid, moving at high seed into another object... If the computer puts a force field there, and moves it into something and the safeties have been disengauged, you're going to get a hole, regardless of what its made from...
Title: Energize, Mr O'Brien
Post by: Tiara on June 20, 2004, 09:28:22 am
Quote
Originally posted by Hippo
It doesn't need kenetic energy... It is something that for all intensive purposes can be considered solid, moving at high seed into another object... If the computer puts a force field there, and moves it into something and the safeties have been disengauged, you're going to get a hole, regardless of what its made from...

Still not KE :D It might be thermal energy though. Or some form of technobabble energy.
Title: Energize, Mr O'Brien
Post by: ChronoReverse on June 20, 2004, 09:55:33 am
@Tiara

AFAIK (and assuming the TNG technical manual isn't completely wrong... and a lot of Voyager episodes seem to be based on it, ugh), the Holodeck *does* create some props dynamically using replicators as well as using forcefields for tactile feedback.
Title: Energize, Mr O'Brien
Post by: Tiara on June 20, 2004, 10:31:15 am
The incident we're talking about was onboard the Enterprise. Now, I highly doubt they'd replicate weapons so that just any person could use them. Besides, we've never seen anyone leave with any object without it disappearing. See Voyager where the Hirogen extended the holodeck. Janeway's WWII rifle couldn't get past the sections without holo-emmiters. This allows us to deduct that weapons and bullets are 100% photonic + energy forcefields. And again, energy cannot have KE because it has no mass. In essence any projectile weapon on the holodeck is an energy weapon.
Title: Energize, Mr O'Brien
Post by: Taristin on June 20, 2004, 10:59:29 am
...didn't they replicate food?  Howsat work, then?
Title: Energize, Mr O'Brien
Post by: Tiara on June 20, 2004, 11:07:02 am
Quote
Originally posted by Raa Tor'h
...didn't they replicate food?  Howsat work, then?

Energy -> matter conversion and rearranging of molecules.

But if they had applied that to holo technology for weapons Janeway would've been able to carry it out of the holodeck perimiter. Which she obviously couldn't.
Title: Energize, Mr O'Brien
Post by: Kazan on June 21, 2004, 08:28:01 am
A moving force field can apply KE to an object

A force field CANNOT be KE-neutral, otherwise it would be unable to hold something back, and therefore would not be a force field