Hard Light Productions Forums
Off-Topic Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: Rictor on June 26, 2004, 10:21:53 pm
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Exibit A:
Senate Bill bans P2P networks (http://news.com.com/2100-1027_3-5244796.html)
"In the film 'Chitty Chitty Bang Bang,' the leering 'Child Catcher' lured children into danger with false promises of 'free lollipops,'" said Senate Judiciary Chairman Orrin Hatch, R-Utah. "Tragically, some corporations now seem to think that they can legally profit by inducing children to steal; that they can legally lure children and others with false promises of 'free music.'"
"An early version of the IICA seen by CNET News.com was called the Inducement Devolves into Unlawful Child Exploitation Act, or Induce Act. The final version appears to be identical. "
"Florida businesses and residents -- and even some officials in the Florida Department of Revenue -- agree that the wording of the law is too broad"
Exibit B:
Florida to tax home networks (http://www.wired.com/news/business/0,1367,63962,00.html?tw=wn_tophead_5)
"Jessica Litman, a professor at Wayne State University who specializes in copyright law, said the language was "worded so broadly" that it would put Web sites such as Tucows, which hosts peer-to-peer clients like the Morpheus software, at risk for "inducing" infringement. "
Exibit C:
Senate says: Film bootlegers should get jail time. (http://www.wired.com/news/digiwood/0,1412,63999,00.html?tw=wn_tophead_6)
And guess who's at the bottom of the p2p legislation? That right, Orrin "Lets Blow up Filesharer's Computers" Hatch, the ultra-conservative Republican who just so happens to be recieving tons of money from Hollywood interests. But lets not forget our friends the Democrats, without who's help this bipartisan affair could not have taken place. Not to mention the other two articles, notably the third one, which was unanimously passed.
Every piece of legislation that gets put through for the sake of corporate profits is touted as "protecting children". Seriously, its like Helen Lovejoy (Simpsons folks, she's the Revernd's wife) got elected to the Senate.
Think of the children!!
Also note the pattern of these bills being "worded too broadly", which seems to be in fashion these days, allowing the government a virtual carte blanche. I guess laws don't mean anything specific things anymore, thats outdated, they're just a dragnet wide enough to mean whatever the government decides it wants t to mean.
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WTF is this?
Has the US government officially decided that Progress is Bad, and to limit it every way they could?
The P2P stuff I can somewhat understand, but surely I'm not the only one who thinks this Florida bill is a blatant effort to grab money.
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You missed out the one saying that from now on companies have to have huge neon signs telling you they're installing spyware on your computer.
I'm all for bashing the government, but only when done in the proper context.
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p2p? I thought they were already illegal?
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The networks themselves aren't, just most of what people distribute.
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So does this mean Bit Torrent is now illegal?
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Reading the article, it looks like the bill hasn't been passed yet (The title implies it to get more view, prolly).
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Originally posted by an0n
You missed out the one saying that from now on companies have to have huge neon signs telling you they're installing spyware on your computer.
I'm all for bashing the government, but only when done in the proper context.
Doesn't mean that they won't keep trying to do it secretly...and the same goes for the other.
I'll still be running Ad-Aware on a weekly basis.
Its really unfortunate that the governments currently in power are seemingly several generations too far out of date to even understand the possibilities, technologies, and the social capabilities that the internet and other new network style technologies are producing.
Are these laws passed or are they still in the works. They sound far too draconian for even some of the more radicalists to try and encourage.
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yeah, that's right
(http://www.swooh.com/lorenzo/hlphosted/pwn3d-2.gif)
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Hey, here's an idea, read the articles. That might provide some information, but then again, maybe not. ;) ;)
Senate Bill bans p2p networks
If the IICA were to become law, "let's say that you're selling an MP3 player and it turns out that the MP3 player can be used to move copyrighted material around really easily," Godwin said. "People start buying your MP3 player. Do you want a world where courts can say, 'Hey buddy, you're liable for copyright infringement?'"
Not passed yet, but apparently it enjoys widespread support, which leads me to believe it will pass.
Florida to tax home networks
Florida state officials are considering taxing home networks that have more than one computer, under a modified 1985 state law that was intended to tax the few businesses that used internal communication networks instead of the local telephone company.
So, the law is already in existence, but they are considering using it to apply to new circumstances, which is in effect the same as a new law.
Senate to throw film bootleggers in jail:
In the House of Representatives, a similar bill was approved by a subcommittee in March. Differences between the two bills were minimal and could be easily resolved, Cornyn said in a statement.
Self explainitory.
edit: too draconian? ha! you obviously don't know who you're dealing with. Orrin Hatch actually proposed, on record, that the government should have the right (not to mention that he assumed it had the ability) to remotely blow up the computers of filesharers. He later retracted the statement after it, rightly so, made him look like a madman, but the intent is quite clear.
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Meh, Florida is full of tards' anyway. Ad rich, old people.
:p
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don't you live in Florida?
EDIT: sorry... its California... i knew that. i always confuse them because both their beaches are kickass
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Indeed.
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kthx
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update: the Let Throw Bootleggers in Prison with Murders and Rapists as their Cellmates Bill has passed. For up to 10 years. Yeah, that right, 10 years for bootlegging a movie. Great, another victory for Hollywood, another loss for everyone else.
Technologists and copyright activists were most alarmed by the Induce Act, backed by Sen. Orrin Hatch (R-Utah), who in the past five years has received $158,000 in campaign contributions from the television, movie and music industries, according to the Center for Responsive Politics.
Ooops..
and then we have another piece of legislative work, from our good friend Orrin Hatch and his Democrat sidekick Patrick Leahy.
Introduced by Hatch and Leahy, the Pirate Act (officially called the Protecting Intellectual Rights Against Theft and Expropriation Act) amends copyright law to allow the attorney general to file civil lawsuits against people accused of file trading. Currently, the government can only file criminal infringement cases, which require a higher burden of proof than civil cases.
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Goddamnit. I don't have the ****ing money to start paying for things legally. I don't have the money to pay for getting caught stealing either. ****.
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Such as this is why politics is a game for the middleaged. They have enough life-experience to weed out the junk and aren't as liable to lose their tempers and make enormous $$$$-ups that kill the world. Nor are they too old to keep up with new trends in technology which what these bills represent.
I propose a minimum age for Elected Office of 35 and a Maximum age of 65.
A maximum Service period of 2 consecutive terms for all offices with a restriction on campaigning to a period not more than 8 months prior to the Election Day.
Should an occupant reach the maximum age they should serve out their current term.
I am sick of ****ing geriatrics make key decisions in matters that they are unqualified in. Intellectual property is a joke unless you have tons of money and 2 dozen lawyers on retainer.
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How about the following test:
If you want to make policy regarding technology, you must pass the test, other wise, no go.
Connect to the Internet. Do a Google search for a word of your choice. Open any of the resulting websites in a new window. Now, copy any portion of the text on that website, create a new email message, paste the text in, and mail it to yourself.
Pass or fail, and they are not told what the test is going to be ahead of time. Just to ensure that no one leaks the test info, create several different test of similar difficulty. Its all basic stuff, its not like they're being asked to create Access Control Lists or anything.
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Originally posted by Liberator
Such as this is why politics is a game for the middleaged. They have enough life-experience to weed out the junk and aren't as liable to lose their tempers and make enormous $$$$-ups that kill the world. Nor are they too old to keep up with new trends in technology which what these bills represent.
I propose a minimum age for Elected Office of 35 and a Maximum age of 65.
A maximum Service period of 2 consecutive terms for all offices with a restriction on campaigning to a period not more than 8 months prior to the Election Day.
Should an occupant reach the maximum age they should serve out their current term.
I am sick of ****ing geriatrics make key decisions in matters that they are unqualified in. Intellectual property is a joke unless you have tons of money and 2 dozen lawyers on retainer.
Thats actually a good idea. Personally, 8 years is a bit too much for me, a lot can happen in that time. I would make it a two-term limit, but make one term last 3 years. That way, if they're not doing a good job, they get the boot. Thats actually the way the Founding Fathers originally intended it to be. They never intended to have career politcians, just normal Joes who would serve their time in office and then move on. It ensure thats no one gets power-hungry and tried to obtrain undue influence.
Oh and, 8 months is a long time to campaing. Over here in Canada, its less than two months, closer to a month. I think that a politicians's actions should speak for themselves. Campaigning is all just a facade anyway, you know, kissing hands and shaking babies, so a politician should convince the people during his time in office, not on the campaign trail.
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And the true beauty is, it'll be unenforceable outside the US. Sucks to be you lot.
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Originally posted by Rictor
... you know, kissing hands and shaking babies, so a politician should convince the people during his time in office, not on the campaign trail.
And if you do it hard enough, you can kill them. :nervous:
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I ****ing hate Orin Hatch, he is on an extreemly short list of people I would like to see dead, and would dance in utter joy at reciveing the news of such a fate,
currently I think the oly company he has on this list is Usama.
I would also like to rimind you all who think this only affects us that we have extradition treaties with most of your governments, and if you think that they wouldn't bother to extradite you remember these are the people who sued a 12 year old girl for $12,000 (iirc).
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Originally posted by Liberator
Such as this is why politics is a game for the middleaged. They have enough life-experience to weed out the junk and aren't as liable to lose their tempers and make enormous $$$$-ups that kill the world. Nor are they too old to keep up with new trends in technology which what these bills represent.
I propose a minimum age for Elected Office of 35 and a Maximum age of 65.
A maximum Service period of 2 consecutive terms for all offices with a restriction on campaigning to a period not more than 8 months prior to the Election Day.
Should an occupant reach the maximum age they should serve out their current term.
I am sick of ****ing geriatrics make key decisions in matters that they are unqualified in. Intellectual property is a joke unless you have tons of money and 2 dozen lawyers on retainer.
I so agree with this... :nod:
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I love American business. That Florida law is particularly inane and I hope a judge tosses that one out the window like they should.
Oh yes, corruption of well-intentioned laws is nothing new in this country. Remeber how much power the IRS has?
Well, think about this: they were originally granted that power in part to go after mobsters like Al Capone. Capone was not nailed for murder, they got him for tax evasion. Some IRS decisions are not subject to due process of the law, a constitutional requirement that even the military and the FBI are (supposedly) subject to.
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Since "The Idea" seems to be so popular maybe we(the Americans) in the group should try to get some popular support and try to get it passed.
I just thought of an addendum however, the Term Limits should be retroactive to the first elected office, and should a law no longer have enough votes to have passed due to the retroactivity, it will be stricken and put up to re-voted on.
You wouldn't think you'd have to legislate "common" sense. Unfortunately, between the secularization of our society(with it's weakening of Family Bonds) and the awe-inspiringly pathetic performance of most public school systems no matter how much money they get.
What was once common sense is now mostly illegal to teach to, and idiotic to expect, from a large segment of the general populace.:(
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Originally posted by Liberator
Such as this is why politics is a game for the middleaged. They have enough life-experience to weed out the junk and aren't as liable to lose their tempers and make enormous $$$$-ups that kill the world. Nor are they too old to keep up with new trends in technology which what these bills represent.
I propose a minimum age for Elected Office of 35 and a Maximum age of 65.
A maximum Service period of 2 consecutive terms for all offices with a restriction on campaigning to a period not more than 8 months prior to the Election Day.
Should an occupant reach the maximum age they should serve out their current term.
I am sick of ****ing geriatrics make key decisions in matters that they are unqualified in. Intellectual property is a joke unless you have tons of money and 2 dozen lawyers on retainer.
So you're saying that Regan should never have been President? Quite a reversal of position from you Lib.
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*watches American flock to Canada, Mexico and Europe leaving nothing but barren wasteland behind*
:p
Seriously, I am so glad to live in Holland. :D
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I just don't think it will stop anything, bootleggers in jail, aren't jails already full to bursting with REAL criminals as it is?
Banning P2P would just push it back underground onto IRC or Usenet anyway until a new sharing technology came about, to me it seems that it'd be the same as suddenly banning tobacco and expecting everyone to stop smoking immediately.
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Originally posted by Tiara
*watches American flock to Canada, Mexico and Europe leaving nothing but barren wasteland behind*
:p
Seriously, I am so glad to live in Holland. :D
Two words:
BREIN Sueing. :rolleyes:
As for the age limit on the electable thing, well, this might not be such a democratic idea, now would it? Also, let's say you have a good senator, or president, or whatever. That guy is just as limited asx the others, meaning that the actualy bad/good percentage willr emian the same, everything will just be in quicker succesion giving people less change to learn the office.
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Not to mention that P2P is not actually illegal and therefore shouldn't be banned.
If they want to use the arguement that illegal things are done with it maybe they should go after the gun manufacturers first cause try as I might I've never managed to kill anyone with my copy of Kazaa.
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Yeah, but HUMAN LIFE isn't as valuable as CORPORATE LOSS, haven't we learnt anything yet?
:)
I smile because it's true.
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Originally posted by kasperl
Two words:
BREIN Sueing. :rolleyes:
Seriously, BREIN has almost no real power over here. They're just as bad as their American brothers, but have almost no power. :p
Last 9 proposals they put up got outright rejected :p
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Granted, but when an artist wants to change somethign in his own song he still ends up paying royalties to BREIN. (True story, my mom used to work in folk music bars and stuff.)
And they are trying to sue, the ISP's are just giving them the finger, and John Doe cases here are a bit hard to make.
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Originally posted by kasperl Granted, but when an artist wants to change somethign in his own song he still ends up paying royalties to BREIN. (True story, my mom used to work in folk music bars and stuff.)
Sad, but true :( But that's about as far as they get anyway :p
And they are trying to sue, the ISP's are just giving them the finger, and John Doe cases here are a bit hard to make.
*hugs ISP*
I just love it everytime it comes on the news: "Internet Providers refuse to give personal information." Or "BREIN loses lawsuit for the release of personal information from an ISP on request."
:D
*flips BREIN the bird*
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The funniest thing is that the MPAA have learnt nothing from all this. If I were them I'd be putting a lot of money into similtainious releases all across the world.
In 2-3 years time the net will be fast enough that film downloads are as common as music downloads. Now while most people are like me and would rather see a film in the cinema than on a computer screen having to wait 2-3 months whilst all my friends in America tell me how good the film was could easily change my mind.
Instead it looks like the MPAA are going to try to emulate RIAA and fight a losing battle against piracy. Worse than the RIAA though they're going to have to fight that battle primarily in Europe where they have even less power.
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All the while I just sit and laugh, they'll never stop piracy and it's a fools errand to think they will, what they need is incentive to buy products and I don't think sueing your customers is the way.
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As I've said a WS on a similar issue:
*points and laughs from across the border*
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the way i see it i dont even consider piracy of software theft. for it to be theft they have to take it away from someone else. sence software can be copied ihnto infinity with a minimum cost, i dont see it as much of a loss. i only pirate what i cant affors, i spend all my money on computers and broadband, theres little left to pay for overpriced software, most of wich in inefficient and poorly designed bloatware. some graphic software costs in excess of $500 and for a teen hobyist it is imposible to get any other way. you can buy a good cpu for less than a copy of windows. if technology costs keep dropping why do software costs keep rising, even as the code becomes less and less efficent as technology improves. piracy doesnt cost companys any money because the people that pirate couldnt afford the software anyway.
and on to music. i remember when you could buy a record for $4.99, kids with there allowance could go to the music store and pick up a record or two. the recording technologys have changed alot sence then. cd production is a hell of alot cheaper than tape or vinal production. yet the prices of records have trippled. technology has made the job of recording and distributing music a lot cheaper, yet prices are still hi. too high for anyone to buy music on a regular bassis. and again the crap out factor, the easyer it is to produce music, the more crappy music gets to the shelfs. i knew live bar bands in phoenix which were far better than anything i ever heard on the radio. when i compare european metal to american metal, i see europe's music scene evolving while the usa is still stuck making stuff they can sell to kids. there is something wrong when they produce music that targets children, then charge outrageous prices for it. buisnessmen at record companies know that music doesnt have to be good to sell it.
as for movies id still rather spend $7 and go see it at the theater. save the purposfull overpricing of snak food, the movies have managed to remain cheap enough to send the kids too. my isp gives me a transfer quota of about 5 gigs, and ive neither had the time or patience to download movies. dvds on the other hand, now those are overpriced to hell. but sence i dont like to watch movies over and over again i dont buy them.
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That's an effective question about the price of software.
By way of rebuttal, software development is much more labor intensive. Very little of the process can be automated to a point where it actually makes the final product cheaper to produce. While I agree that most software is overpriced there are usually lower-priced alternatives to theft of the expensive one.
It begs the question though, how many more copies per year of Photoshop would Adobe sell if the price came down?
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i'd buy one if they lowered their prices....
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I for one have tons of software pirated, and I know its wrong in theory, but I just don't feel guilty about it. Stealing from Adobe or Microsoft is different than stealing from a Mom and Pop store or a small software company. Call it moral relativism if you want, but I make those decisions on a case-by-case basis. Now if I was actually running a company that was profiting from the use of that software, I would maybe be more inclinced to pay for it, since Adobe's work (or whoever's) would actually be making me money, but as it stands, its only for my own entertainment.
But in any case, I think paying $700 for Photoshop or $200 for Windows is outrageous. Even the price of games is too high, at around $70-80 with tax. Knowing that the majority of that money is NOT going to the hard working, 16-hours-a-day developers, but is instead being used to buy some lazy executive a new car, thats certainly a factor as well. Game developers are very hard working people, and yet they suffer in virtual obscurity, get payed very little fr their efforts, and constantly have some know-nothing publisher breathing down their necks to dumb down their games for the mass market.
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Originally posted by Tiara
*watches American flock to Canada, Mexico and Europe leaving nothing but barren wasteland behind*
:p
Seriously, I am so glad to live in Holland. :D
If Harper gets elected here, nobody will be flocking to Canada.
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Originally posted by IceFire
If Harper gets elected here, nobody will be flocking to Canada.
Harper? More like Hitler......
I'm trying to figure out how his cronies got my email addy.. I've been getting anti-Liberal spam for weeks now...
[edit] roofle... we have a Marxist-Leninist party...
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Give it another decade, and its NDP all the way baby. They're polling at 17%, while both the Liberals and Conservatives are around 30%. God, I hope Harper doens't win it. Sure, lots of people don't like the Liberals, but look at the alternative *shudder*
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Originally posted by Rictor
Give it another decade, and its NDP all the way baby. They're polling at 17%, while both the Liberals and Conservatives are around 30%. God, I hope Harper doens't win it. Sure, lots of people don't like the Liberals, but look at the alternative *shudder*
You see...I'd rather see the Liberals in with a minority government and the official opposition formed by the NDP. That would work out fantastically...the NDP and the Liberals are currently the only two parties that are moderate enough to represent a wide national appeal. The Conservatives are getting the usual radical right vote and all the people who are pissed with the Liberals and don't see that what they are voting for is much worse than what we've ever seen in the last 10 years.
If the "Conservatives" (who are really still the reform party and have nothing in common with the PC party) win then we're going to see Bush style politics in Canada.
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Just looking at former PMs. Since Diefenbaker was voted in, it has either been Liberal or PC. Nothing else. Liberals 5 times, PC 4 times. Although, I suppose Turner doesn't count, since he was only in for two months. So Liberal 4, PC 4.
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Bush style politics in Canada... That'll be hillarious.
NEWSFLASH! Canada has begun a pre-emptive attack on Kuala Lampor, in response to what it calls 'weapons of mass disorder' that may or may not be produced and or shipped to Canada in the next 40 years.
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It's never a pre-emptive attack while on a Moose.
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Yeah, so it looks like we have a Liberal gov't again. A minority gov't this time at least.
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I only watched up to like halfway, so I don't know the final count. I'm kind of disapointed that the NDP didn't get more seats, the Conservatives had them beat lik 4:1.
Liberal minority mean right smack dab in the middle. Nothing extreme, and hopefully the Liberals will work with the NDP and Bloc rather than with Harper.
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http://enr.elections.ca/National_e.aspx
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Not passed yet, but apparently it enjoys widespread support, which leads me to believe it will pass.
Gee, I wonder who's paying them to "support" it. :rolleyes:
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wow! you got alot of parties overthere in moose land. i wish we had a marxist party.