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Off-Topic Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: jdjtcagle on June 27, 2004, 03:27:33 pm

Title: Ok, I'm arguing with my dad on something
Post by: jdjtcagle on June 27, 2004, 03:27:33 pm
What do you think about Modern Defense and Offense?
My Dad says that we rely on technology WAY too much, In America soldiers have it easier now in bootcamp than 40 years ago.  He doesn't like the ideas of Modern tanks, he says there not that reliable.  He thinks that soldiers would not be able to survive if something was to go wrong. I don't know what he's arguing for?  He acts like he WANTS it to go back to WWII style combat.

I say that the death tolls have gone down A WHOLE LOT, also.
I think my dad is just scared of change, I don't know.  I say that with modern weapons there not relying on technology that much and will be strong enough soldiers because now modern weapons do alot more damage.  But, my father says that they could easily be stoped and the soldiers would be doomed.

Does my Father have any point at all? What do you think about it??
Should the army be focused more on soldiers abilitys or machines?
Title: Ok, I'm arguing with my dad on something
Post by: WMCoolmon on June 27, 2004, 03:36:41 pm
Relying on anything too much is a bad idea. But usually it's not the modernity of the equipment that matters as much as the reliability of weapons.
Title: Ok, I'm arguing with my dad on something
Post by: IceFire on June 27, 2004, 03:37:41 pm
Well your father has a point.  Its worrysome if soliders are being trained exclusively on high technology when they may need to use low tech methods to fight or survive.  There are things, some that are hundreds or thousands of years old, that are just as important to learn in terms of survival training as is modern technology.

As for the usage of actual weapons of war.  The new HK M4 Carbine is a bazillion times more reliable than the old M1 Rifle or the BAR.  The M1 Abrams is a power hungry hog but there are a couple of other tanks in the world that are much more efficient and far more reliable than any of the WWII tanks.  

In terms of jet aircraft, the reliability has gone way up and the numbers have come down.  Fly by wire seems to work just fine and there aren't too many disadvantages of computer controlled designs...the F-16 is in use by a multitude of countries and is plenty unstable and yet there haven't been any serious drawbacks.

The next generation of warship will probably once again be much more successful and reliable than previous designs and its not all computers and electronics there either.  Its just good design.

Now what worries me is if someone detonates a EMP style weapon and wipes out alot of electronics, communications, and messes up the GPS systems.  You better hope that your jets weren't affected because they don't fly without a computer system (i.e. a F/A-22 with EMP damage is going to be next to useless).

I'm all for the use of technology...but we need to have the ability to integrate the throwbacks just incase something goes seriously wrong.  Lessons in sci-fi series sometimes teach us these things.  The new Battlestar Galactica mini-series highlights how theoretically vulnerable a computer network may be.
Title: Ok, I'm arguing with my dad on something
Post by: Ghostavo on June 27, 2004, 03:38:13 pm
The army should focus on the weakest link... in the USA that role is taken by the soldier, so your dad has a point.
Title: Ok, I'm arguing with my dad on something
Post by: jdjtcagle on June 27, 2004, 03:50:26 pm
EMP never even cross my mind...
I would like to hear more comments :)
Title: Ok, I'm arguing with my dad on something
Post by: Ghostavo on June 27, 2004, 03:56:34 pm
Well if someone could design a EMP beam that would be really really bad wouldn't it?
Title: Re: Ok, I'm arguing with my dad on something
Post by: Nico on June 27, 2004, 04:21:19 pm
Quote
Originally posted by jdjtcagle
What do you think about Modern Defense and Offense?
My Dad says that we rely on technology WAY too much, In America soldiers have it easier now in bootcamp than 40 years ago.  He doesn't like the ideas of Modern tanks, he says there not that reliable.  He thinks that soldiers would not be able to survive if something was to go wrong. I don't know what he's arguing for?  He acts like he WANTS it to go back to WWII style combat.

I say that the death tolls have gone down A WHOLE LOT, also.
I think my dad is just scared of change, I don't know.  I say that with modern weapons there not relying on technology that much and will be strong enough soldiers because now modern weapons do alot more damage.  But, my father says that they could easily be stoped and the soldiers would be doomed.

Does my Father have any point at all? What do you think about it??
Should the army be focused more on soldiers abilitys or machines?


Your father is right. Armies should use stones and clubs. No, wait, stones can be dull and clubs can break.
Nails should be good enough.

I don't know about the US army, but when I listen to Jean ( my best buddy, who's a soldier ), seems they learn funny tricks like in the old movies, so I suppose they don't rely only on their trusty FAMAS, for exemple :). The spirit here seems to be that modern stuff is to improve on soldiers ability, so both should be good to take.
Title: Re: Ok, I'm arguing with my dad on something
Post by: Stealth on June 27, 2004, 05:12:27 pm
Quote
Originally posted by jdjtcagle
He acts like he WANTS it to go back to WWII style combat.

I say that the death tolls have gone down A WHOLE LOT, also.


Remember that America hasn't been involved in any war as big as WWII, since WWII.  I guarantee you that if there was a WWIII, you'd see the numbers shoot right up again.
Title: Re: Re: Ok, I'm arguing with my dad on something
Post by: 01010 on June 27, 2004, 05:33:50 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Stealth


Remember that America hasn't been involved in any war as big as WWII, since WWII.  I guarantee you that if there was a WWIII, you'd see the numbers shoot right up again.


Due to the nature of modern warfare I don't think a WWIII would actually be anything like previous world wars.
Title: Re: Re: Re: Ok, I'm arguing with my dad on something
Post by: Darkage on June 27, 2004, 05:41:37 pm
Quote
Originally posted by 01010


Due to the nature of modern warfare I don't think a WWIII would actually be anything like previous world wars.



They wil just nuke each other to death and the rest of the world with the fallout.
Title: Re: Re: Re: Ok, I'm arguing with my dad on something
Post by: Stealth on June 27, 2004, 05:57:03 pm
Quote
Originally posted by 01010


Due to the nature of modern warfare I don't think a WWIII would actually be anything like previous world wars.


in terms of the death toll?  yeah you're right... the numbers would be a hell of a lot higher than any previous wars... but that's the point i'm trying to make.
Title: Ok, I'm arguing with my dad on something
Post by: aldo_14 on June 27, 2004, 05:58:21 pm
"I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones."

(Albert Einstein)
Title: Ok, I'm arguing with my dad on something
Post by: Hippo on June 27, 2004, 06:06:26 pm
Wasn't that in someones sig here for a while?
Title: Ok, I'm arguing with my dad on something
Post by: Falcon on June 27, 2004, 06:13:03 pm
Quote
Originally posted by aldo_14
"I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones."

(Albert Einstein)


yeah but Ill be using boulders......
Title: Ok, I'm arguing with my dad on something
Post by: neo_hermes on June 27, 2004, 06:14:30 pm
If world war III ever occurs i suggest that we use weaponry from the middle ages with modern improvements.....at least then we will survive for another decade at least...
:nervous:
Title: Ok, I'm arguing with my dad on something
Post by: Falcon on June 27, 2004, 06:18:10 pm
oh you mean swords turn into light sabers? Ahh thats how Star Wars was born.....
Title: Ok, I'm arguing with my dad on something
Post by: neo_hermes on June 27, 2004, 06:22:50 pm
....i doubt Light sabers will ever be real anytime soon, falcon. check back in 3000-10000yrs.
Title: Ok, I'm arguing with my dad on something
Post by: Solatar on June 27, 2004, 06:25:12 pm
We could go back to shooting grapeshot at each other.

Though the modern soldier would shoot...then duck while he reloaded.
Title: Ok, I'm arguing with my dad on something
Post by: Falcon on June 27, 2004, 06:25:46 pm
Then Ill preserve my body aka cryo-genic freezing... do i feel a draft in here?
Title: Ok, I'm arguing with my dad on something
Post by: neo_hermes on June 27, 2004, 06:28:03 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Solatar
We could go back to shooting grapeshot at each other.

Though the modern soldier would shoot...then duck while he reloaded.


I'd rather have that than have a thousand bullets rip me apart as soon as i peek around a corner...
Title: Ok, I'm arguing with my dad on something
Post by: jdjtcagle on June 27, 2004, 07:19:56 pm
I agree...
WWIII is going to be Nuclear madness. Especially on the U.S. were so damn cocky and snootie.
Title: Ok, I'm arguing with my dad on something
Post by: neo_hermes on June 27, 2004, 07:31:03 pm
i doubt anyone would nuke america....*sigh*
Title: Ok, I'm arguing with my dad on something
Post by: vyper on June 27, 2004, 07:31:23 pm
I'd rather run the risk of dying instantaneously in a nuclear blast than having a war in which millions of ppl suffer slow, agonizing deaths.

Beyond all that there won't be a world war any time soon.
Title: Ok, I'm arguing with my dad on something
Post by: jdjtcagle on June 27, 2004, 07:34:26 pm
Quote
Originally posted by neo_hermes
i doubt anyone would nuke america....*sigh*


Hahahahahah....
Mwahahahahahah.... *points finger*
many years ago I doubted that anywone would ram a plane into major buildings.
Title: Ok, I'm arguing with my dad on something
Post by: Rictor on June 27, 2004, 07:34:43 pm
edit: damn, aldo beat me to it.
Title: Ok, I'm arguing with my dad on something
Post by: Flipside on June 27, 2004, 07:39:26 pm
The fact of the matter is that to a large part it makes no difference, because if American soldiers went back to old style equipment and techniques, it would simply make them all the more vulnerable to other countries' newer stuff.

America got a wake up call regarding it's airforce recently during some trials against the kind of planes they would be facing in several world conflict situations. It seems the American planes aren't nearly as far ahead on technology as the Military thought. In particular, French Mirages and Russian Migs (I think) both performed far far better than it was thought they would.

That's why these soldiers MUST learn the newest technology, because everyone elses are.....

However, if they are not teaching that soldier how to survive when that equipment is not available, then they are sending them out to war without the single most important tool they can have.
Title: Ok, I'm arguing with my dad on something
Post by: jdjtcagle on June 27, 2004, 07:41:31 pm
I like that... :yes:
I'll let my dad read it :)
Title: Ok, I'm arguing with my dad on something
Post by: neo_hermes on June 27, 2004, 07:41:46 pm
Quote
Originally posted by jdjtcagle


Hahahahahah....
Mwahahahahahah.... *points finger*
many years ago I doubted that anywone would ram a plane into major buildings.


*Sigh* i knew someone was goin to say that.... I knew i should have put the sarcastic smiely in their.... whatever the damage has been done.
Title: Ok, I'm arguing with my dad on something
Post by: jdjtcagle on June 27, 2004, 07:44:09 pm
:p will do fine
Title: Ok, I'm arguing with my dad on something
Post by: Knight Templar on June 27, 2004, 07:56:31 pm
Me thinks your dad is just remeniscing a bit. My dad does the same time.
Title: Ok, I'm arguing with my dad on something
Post by: ChronoReverse on June 27, 2004, 08:03:49 pm
Interestingly enough, if prepared for, EMP attacks are really mostly effective against civilian targets.  Even nuclear level emp's can be survived by hardened military circuits.

And there's alway faraday cages...



In any case, I'm sure the modern soldier is still being trained for direct contact so it's nothing really to worry about.  If the U.S. is at the point where its soldiers have to fight without the benefit of high-tech equipment, it would mean it would have been some kind of world war (minus the nukes).
Title: Ok, I'm arguing with my dad on something
Post by: Nico on June 28, 2004, 01:59:32 am
Ah, yeah, btw, EMP is way overated...
We're not in Matrix there, the poor B2 that just dropped its nuke wouldn't fall because of its own bomb :rolleyes: