Hard Light Productions Forums
Off-Topic Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: Knight Templar on June 30, 2004, 10:57:51 pm
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Well?
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Lesee.. Chakotay is an arse, Spock is too.. Vulcan, Riker is too cheesey, T'pol.. Vulcan....
Kira. She's very... angry. Reminds me of a girl I used to know.
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Riker is a pansy. Spock is my kind of man, take that how you will.
Though I do consider the entire Trek universe to be one over-mutilated series of contradictions.
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er.. I like DS9 so I voted for Kira. She used to be rebel and as we all know from star wars, rebels are cool.
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I say Teal'c... :nervous:
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Heh, tell that to KillMeNow; he'll kill you. We all know Darth Vader is far cooler than all the Rebels' collective jockstraps put together.
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well yes, of course, but this isn't a villain poll
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then someone do a favorite villian thread...
I'd have to go for Kira she was a rebel.
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Kira. Spock is cool too. :p
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I say Spock
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kira was a rebel, but think about it, now she's second in comand of that damned imperialiseingfederation, she just traided one oppressive ruler for another,
Kira == total sellout
spock, I never liked the old show
voyager sucked
and Riker was just a dick head.
so I'd think T'pol she's the only comander that seemed to be more than just a comander. plus she seems to like banging subordenates, and she doesn't even need to be under the effects of some odd spacal anomoly or paracite.
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Federation dun torture or strip mine the Bajorans though.
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You're just giving into Federation propaganda, KT. All Romulans know about the Federation death camps! ;)
For me it's a tie between Spock, Riker (yes his hot-headedness and cheesyness is refreshing compared to capn' politically-correct), and T'Pol. But Spock wins due to being first.
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wel that's a crappy reason for anything.
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Fine, he also wins because he seduces women for the good of the feddies, unlike T'Pol or Kirk who are just horny :p
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well ok, he's oldest
and KT honestly were do you get your information on the way the federation works, I mean it's well established that it's simply a terrocracy set up only to enrich the humans at the expence of all the rest of the galixy, selfishly going to world by world, imposeing there values on alien worlds that had done quite well on there own, I mean just look at the ferengi, there on the verge of socal colapse all becase they posed an ecconomic threat to the federation. and you want to talk about environmental damage, look at the Hekaras Corridor, on stardate 47310.2 it was turned into a waist land due to the calous use of high warp through the reagin despite knowledge that it was causeing problems, the federation promptly spun the situation claiming that the good Doctors Rabal and Serova who had discovered the problem and were trying to corect it caused the rift, with distortions and outright lies, this is just yet another of an endless stream of examples of the Federations laack of giveing a damn about the rest of the universe so long as it doesn't have to bother it's self.
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........
They still don't have Bajoran death camps and/or strip mining....
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Anyway, I think Kira is hot, at least, when she has some hair. Which is odd, because normally I would select T'pol for hotness, but she just seems.. I don't know... dirtier. Which isn't a bad thing... but I'm sidetracking myself.
Chakotay had a cool premise, but all he did was ***** at Janeway each episode, everytime she did something morally ambiguous.
Riker I always liked, despite his cliche' second-in-commandness. He just made it work really, and he got all the ladies.
So really, it comes down to Riker's suaveness, or Kira's actualy character/hotness...
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T'Pol ... shes just THAT hot! :)
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yeah T'pol all the way, horniest first officer in the history of trek.
and remember a vote for Kira is a vote for a person who's mirror world counter part likes tortureing people and haveing hot girl on gir... can I change my vote?
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Originally posted by Knight Templar
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They still don't have Bajoran death camps and/or strip mining....
oh they don't do they, well just how long do you think the Bajoran way of life can survive with the consumerist herd mentality that is being pumped into there quiet peace loveing world, the federation wasn't there for oe year when they got Bajor nearly anihalated a number of times, started a major war with the enimy bodelneck right there, whatdoes the future hold? at least with the cardasians they knew they were oppressed. and even there the "ocupation" is knowen to exadurated by the federation to justify there land gram in the DMZ and other places
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Riker...dunno' why exactly...maybe all the others suck even more.
Although T'Pol IS hot, but she's an annoying second-in-command
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thing I don't like about T'pol is the woman who plays her's idea of acting dramaticly involves stareing intently and crazely ant things that arn't realy there, usualy about 30 degrees off of the nearest person, and then kind of rolling her head about slightly while keeping her eyes fixed.
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Originally posted by Knight Templar
Riker I always liked, despite his cliche' second-in-commandness. He just made it work really, and he got all the ladies.
The funny thing was that Riker tried hard to act charming in order to pull the ladies. He told jokes, flirted outrageously and occasionally outright embarrassed himeslf trying to get some.
Picard didn't put on an act and still got just as much interest from the ladies. He was practically beating them off with a stick on Risa :lol:
Anyway I voted for Spock cause anyone who can raise one eyebrow that high independantly of the other one deserves to win :D
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Originally posted by Bobboau
thing I don't like about T'pol is the woman who plays her's idea of acting dramaticly involves stareing intently and crazely ant things that arn't realy there, usualy about 30 degrees off of the nearest person, and then kind of rolling her head about slightly while keeping her eyes fixed.
Yup, now that you mention it I remember seeing that in several episodes.
It's like she tries to stare down her imaginary friend, that only she can see....
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Originally posted by redsniper
er.. I like DS9 so I voted for Kira. She used to be rebel and as we all know from star wars, rebels are cool.
DS9 is bad. Kira is one of the worst charachters out there...
She blows up whole houses with women and children in it and then attacks a old Cardassian(who loves her like his own daughter) coause he was part of a 400 man unit that burned down some monastery!
She thinks of herself as a pinncale of virtue and goes around judging all others, where as she should rot in jail.
She attacks Quark for selling weapons, yet when she was in the ressitance, she bought such weapons and it didn't bother her. Actually, the ressitance wouldn't have survived without arms dealers.
She stelas shultes, attacks Strfleet personell and goes out shooting people out of vengance. She breakes avery rule and acts as a complete tard! No one would EVER make her a commander.
I say Spock or Riker...Maby allso T'Pol....
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trshman, ther are a hole bunch of speling erors in that post :p
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Originally posted by TrashMan
DS9 is bad. Kira is one of the worst charachters out there...
She blows up whole houses with women and childer in it and then attacks a old Cardassian coause he was art of a 400 man unit that burnt some monastery! She thinks of herself as a pinncale of virtue and goes around judging all others, where as she should rot in jail.
She attacks Quark for selling weapoins, yet when she was in the ressitance, she bought such weapons and it didn't bother her. Actually, the ressitance wouldn't have survived without arms dealers.
She stelas shultes, attacks Strfleet personell and goes out shooting people out of vengance. She breakes avery rule and acts as a complete tard! No one would EVER make her a commander.
I say Spock or Riker...Maby allso T'Pol....
I just spellchecked it... my brain crashed. :p
Anyway, DS9 is by far the best Trek series out there (Enterprise, season 3 isgood though). Unlike almost every other series it ian't a bunch of loose episodes.
Also, if you think she's nasty, look at Sisko. He poisoned the atmosphere of an inhabited planet to get his revenge. (Granted, they were already evacuating but he probably still killed thousands)
Also, you can't blame her for the atrocities she commited during her time in the resistance. You'd do the same if some enemy would barge into your home, rape you women, kill children, make every survivor p[erform hard labour, kill for pleasure, didn't give a rats ass about your entire population, etc etc. There's a good reason why she's so bitter. And I don't blame her.
You judge way too harshly. Sure, she's a tard. But she's got a reason to be one. :p
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She kicks Dukat's ass on numerous occasions too.. thats gotta be worth something.
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Originally posted by Carl
trshman, ther are a hole bunch of speling erors in that post :p
The world's most intentionally ironic post.
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Col T.C. McQueen, USS Saratoga.
Not Trek, but the question doesn't state Trek-only, so STFU.
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Bob: *tries to make sense of Bob's post* Imperialism is still different than forced labour/death camps and strip mining... I'm not disputing anything else, so I don't know why you're so worked up.
Trashman: *tries to make sense of Trash's post* DS9 is hardly bad, and we'll Kira might be a 'morally questionable character' that makes her a lot more interesting than say, Chakotay, who was a pretty big pussy for being a rebel/terrorist most his life. That aside, she's part of a government during DS9, which is the sweet irony of her character. Just because she used to deal with arms dealers in her previous lifestyle doesn't mean she should shrug any responsibility of dealing with them now...
And she's hot. ;7
Kara: Right, but this isn't about Picard (we all know it's because of his voice anyway.) ;)
Originally posted by an0n
Col T.C. McQueen, USS Saratoga.
Not Trek, but the question doesn't state Trek-only, so STFU.
Title: Favorite Trek Commander
:p
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I actually prefer the Mirror Universe version of Spock, myself.
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Originally posted by Grey Wolf 2009
I actually prefer the Mirror Universe version of Spock, myself.
Could he do the eyebrow thing too? If so can I change my vote? :D
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Originally posted by Knight Templar
Title: Favorite Trek Commander
:p
I was employing my selective dyslexia.
Fine, I'll pick a favourite Trek 2nd: KURN! He was second in command of the House of Mogh.
And if you're going to be picky: Thot Gor. After the Founder, he was the Supreme Commander of the Breen fleet.
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Speaking of Kurn, I just saw the DS9 episode where yesterday where they screwed over his character and erased his memory. What the ****? He was supposed to be the warrior who kicks people's asses in a pinch, not become a wallowing drunkard. Since when did the House of Mogh become anymore dishonored than it already was anyway?
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Worf sided with the Federation when Gowron kicked the **** outta the Cardassians. So he was most certainly guilty of high-treason. The only reason he wasn't executed by Gowron later was because he had Martok's protection.
That kinda took the sheen off the family name.
And at that point there were only 3 members of the House of Mogh. One was Kurn, the disgraced former-commander of a squadron of K'vort; One was 1/4 Human and living on Earth; And the other basically told the leader of the Empire to go **** himself in the ass with a Bat'leth.
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I think I like the way Riker handles his post. A good leader.
Spock always was more like an ambassador. But a good commander
Kira is cool, too.
Chakotey is too coward for my taste.
And T'Pol.. Well.. I don't know. I don't like "Enterprise" much.
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Originally posted by mrduckman
I think I like the way Riker handles his post. A good leader.
He got the E-D shot to pieces by an outdated BoP :doubt:
Chakotey is too coward for my taste.
In other words: Janeway's *****.
And T'Pol.. Well.. I don't know. I don't like "Enterprise" much.
Watch season three and you might change your mind ;)
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Originally posted by Tiara
I just spellchecked it... my brain crashed. :p
Fixed. Was in a hellova hurry when I wrote that post.
Originally posted by Tiara
Anyway, DS9 is by far the best Trek series out there (Enterprise, season 3 isgood though). Unlike almost every other series it ian't a bunch of loose episodes.
Also, if you think she's nasty, look at Sisko. He poisoned the atmosphere of an inhabited planet to get his revenge. (Granted, they were already evacuating but he probably still killed thousands)
HAHAHAHA.. DS9 and Voyager are the worst by-produts of TV Series mutalatin I ever seen!
They have an astounding amount of logical flaws, plot holes and time-travel. I can't beleive people criteria has gone down taht much....
And Sisko is a complete tard too. He's not fit to command a garbage dumpster!
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Originally posted by TrashMan
HAHAHAHA.. DS9 and Voyager are the worst by-produts of TV Series mutalatin I ever seen!
They have an astounding amount of logical flaws, plot holes and time-travel. I can't beleive people criteria has gone down taht much....
And Sisko is a complete tard too. He's not fit to command a garbage dumpster!
Ok, your opinion then differs from 99% of all Trekkies, Warsies and Fivers alike. Not that I care... Anyone is entitled to their own likes and dislikes.
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Spock!
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Tiara, from where do you come up with the 99% figure?
I belive 40% max....
I do visit Trek related forums, so I should know...
Andweather you like it or not, there is something called subjective oppinion, and there is something called fact-based truth.
And this:
They have an astounding amount of logical flaws, plot holes and time-travel. I can't beleive people criteria has gone down taht much....
And Sisko is a complete tard too. He's not fit to command a garbage dumpster!
is the truth....
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And this:
They have an astounding amount of logical flaws, plot holes and time-travel. I can't beleive people criteria has gone down taht much....
Arguable.
And Sisko is a complete tard too. He's not fit to command a garbage dumpster!
is the truth.... [/B]
Opinion.
TrashMan, you should just stop now, before you make yourself look like even more of an ass.
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No no, let him have his voice. He's entitled to an opinion at least. No matter how stupid, retarded and/or utterly wrong it is.
VOY: No ****. --- DS9: :wtf:
And T: The BoP had the Enterprises shield frequency, remember?
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Yeah, they probably also had the Ent-D's phaser/torp frequencies I imagine too, since the Ent-D's phasers did jack when they returned fire. Not much you can do in a situation like that except maybe take advantage of the only Klingon in Starfleet that you have on your bridge that might know a weakness in that BoP. Oh wait, that's what Riker did! He gets my vote. Besides, he plays the trombone and musical talent is cool. :) Meh, TNG was always may favorite anyway.. I grew up on it. *sigh* memories...
[edit]spelling[/edit]
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I'm gay for Riker. Grraur!
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Well he does have that big burly man-chest going on... ;7
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Eh, they might've had the shield frequency but even then they would've had the power to obliterate the BoP 5 times over with a single alpha strike. It was an outdated piece of junk. But Riker just went 'HUH!? ABANDON SHIP! ABANDON SHIP! ME FIRST THEN THE WOMEN AND THE REST STAYS BEHIND!'. Seriously, any capable commander would've ****ed those Klingons over even if they had access to Geordi's visor.
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You know, there is a commander missing off of this list:
Commander Charles Tucker III.
Technically the XO, and engineer. Afterall, you can't let the second biggest space-pimp in the universe out of this poll. (Kirk being the biggest space-pimp) :p
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Originally posted by Thorn
Arguable.
There's nothing argualbe about that.
I did write a whole LONG list of logical holes and plot holes in a nother thread.
They all stand and you can't dismiss them without provind me wrog (which you can't).
And I'm not talking about "this is not possible, so it's a logical hole" kind of mistakes, I'm talking about plot holes that go against ST physics and races.
Opinion.
TrashMan, you should just stop now, before you make yourself look like even more of an ass. [/B]
Well, the second thing was more a oppinion than a fact....
Alltough I still say that he's not fit to be a capitain...
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Originally posted by Ace
Technically the XO, and engineer. Afterall, you can't let the second biggest space-pimp in the universe out of this poll. (Kirk being the biggest space-pimp) :p
Nah, Picard is the second biggest space-pimp. He doesn't do **** and they still come running to him...
And Tucker got T'Pol just because she's all high on Trellium-D. :p
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Originally posted by TrashMan
There's nothing argualbe about that.
I did write a whole LONG list of logical holes and plot holes in a nother thread.
They all stand and you can't dismiss them without provind me wrog (which you can't).
And I'm not talking about "this is not possible, so it's a logical hole" kind of mistakes, I'm talking about plot holes that go against ST physics and races.
Seriously, you must be joking right? In any sci-fi that isn't hard science fiction you'll find plot holes. So, unless you take on Honor Harrington or something don't bother.
Let's see:
B5:
- 2MT nukes destroy a Sharlin. Yet they manage to hold off a shadow slicer for a few seconds on the fin no less.
- They have no viable evidence of Inertial Dampeners, yet a shuttle can pull 24,000 G in the scene that it goes from Mars to Orbit in 10 seconds flat.
- Sheridan flies in a damned space suit holding a nuclear device to destroy the Third Space artefact. If scanners are as good as they are said to be, they'd detect the nuke and blow Sheridan up before he arms the device.
- etc etc etc
SW:
- A small little craft manages to destroy a DeathStar. He can fly all the way to the core and fire a missile. Now even a half finished construction would have some sort of protective layer around the core. Shielding or otherwise.
- T3h Farce. Well, that's just fantasy alltogether. The B5 Psi corps are far more believable in contrast to the Jedi knights of the Round f-ing table.
- Multi gigaton blasts make a 2 meter hole in the ground where it'd normally blow away entire cities.
- etc etc etc
These things are called PLOT DEVICES[/u].
Well, the second thing was more a oppinion than a fact....
Alltough I still say that he's not fit to be a capitain...
So, your opinion of a captain is someone who blindly follows orders, doesn't take initiative and just sits there? Instead of a good captain who questions his orders if they are just outright stupid? Who questions his entire government when things go haywire and it's the right thing to do?
In other words, you like boring ass captains with the will of a reprogrammed Cylon.
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Originally posted by Tiara
- Sheridan flies in a damned space suit holding a nuclear device to destroy the Third Space artefact. If scanners are as good as they are said to be, they'd detect the nuke and blow Sheridan up before he arms the device.
To be fair all the ThirdSpace aliens were a little busy at the time shooting the perfectly visible enemy ships to bother scanning Sheridan :)
Besides they may have believed that the aliens on board could handle him.
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And it's been established that the nukes used in B5 are hard to detect, as are people floating free in space.
In The Beginning showed Minbari sensors couldn't detect the nukes and Into The Fire implied Vorlon and Shadow tech couldn't pick them up unless they were real close or were actively looking for them.
And let's not forget that there was a battle going on at the Thirdspace device. They probably thought Sheridan was just a chunk of debris.
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And still.. it's moronic :p
Well, I guess their scanners just plain suck unbelievably compared to Trek... or any other sci-fi serie. :p
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Originally posted by Tiara
And still.. it's moronic :p
Well, I guess their scanners just plain suck unbelievably compared to Trek... or any other sci-fi serie. :p
And trek sensors which can distinguish between individual people on a planet of several billion aren't moronic?
B5 sensors are mearly closer to reality. Besides unless the sensor rings a huge alarm bell a sensor is only as good as the person manning it.
Besides I've already stated that they could have seen Sheridan and simply let him in so they could steal his nuke :D
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Originally posted by karajorma
And trek sensors which can distinguish between individual people on a planet of several billion aren't moronic?
B5 sensors are mearly closer to reality. Besides unless the sensor rings a huge alarm bell a sensor is only as good as the person manning it.
Why do people make such a big deal out of this? :doubt: It's pretty simple. Each individual/species has a heat signature, unique compound in their blood or other distinguishable features. Even today we have simple scanners that can detect individuals from a great distance. A few hundred years from now this wouldn't be special AT ALL.
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The problem is:
How are you going seperate the heat from other sources from those of that individual?
How are you going to analise their blood? :wtf:
How are you going to apply that on a planetary scale?
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Originally posted by Ghostavo
The problem is:
How are you going seperate the heat from other sources from those of that individual?
Look for the source of the heat. Scanners with such ranges should be able to do that from orbit.
How are you going to analise their blood? :wtf:
Not their blood, the compound in their blood. Like we have iron in our blood. Vulcans have green blood. Which could mean that instead of having Iron in their blood, they have nickel in their blood.
The metals is what color our blood ;)
How are you going to apply that on a planetary scale?
They can scan at light years range (thx to subspace). i doubt a planet wide survey would be that hard in comparison.
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There still remains a problem with all that... atmosphere? :wtf:
They made the Hubble for a reason...
And how are they going to analise their blood... they can't see what color is their blood from afar!
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Originally posted by Ghostavo
There still remains a problem with all that... atmosphere? :wtf:
Wtf is your point with this :p
They made the Hubble for a reason...
Scanners employing subspace >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hubble
And how are they going to analise their blood... they can't see what color is their blood from afar!
Ok, one more time:
They AREN'T analyzing their blood. They are analyzing the METALS in their blood.
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Ow, and it's called science FICTION for a reason ;) But it's mostly explainable using common sense.
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Originally posted by Tiara
Why do people make such a big deal out of this? :doubt: It's pretty simple. Each individual/species has a heat signature, unique compound in their blood or other distinguishable features. Even today we have simple scanners that can detect individuals from a great distance. A few hundred years from now this wouldn't be special AT ALL.
Cause some of us understand science :)
Sure you can design sensors that can find a heat source from hundreds of meters away but that is a case of trying to pick up one heat source when the surrounding area is cold. They won't work in a crowd of people for the simple reason that the heat from everyone else will swamp out the heat of the person you're looking for.
The human body puts out IR and very weak EM effects from the electrical impulses the nerves use. That's it. The idea that a sensor on board a ship in orbit around a planet could pick those up is ludicrous.
Lets take a look at what these sensors would have to be able to do.
Passive Sensors
Right these are the ones that will detect the signals given off by the person on the ground. What would these sensors have to be able to do?
1. The sensor must recieve all the IR signals from planet. I think we can rule out the electrical signals from the human's body. While a very sensitive detector might pick them up in close proximity there's no amount of refinement you can do to pick up such a weak EM field from orbit. So we're talking about IR only.
2. The sensor must somehow match this IR signal to one on record. The Sensor must be able to compensate for any effects caused by the subject's status at the time. The sensor must somehow be able to compensate for variations in heat due to the subject being in a cold or hot enviroment, due to him exercising or standing still/sleeping and due to him being injured or even in a coma.
3. It's no good simply detecting the signal. The sensor must be able to pinpoint the source of the signal even when in orbit around a planet. That means that once the signal is detected the sensor must be able to work out the exact angle at which the IR signal entered the detector. There can be no margin of error on this as a very tiny variation on this will mean that you miss the Captain and end up beaming up something kilometers away from his loacation.
4. The sensor must somehow overcome the fact that it's about to be flooded with an almost infinitely large amount of data. Think that the transporters have a hard job trying to deal with all the data required to stick someone back together? This is harder. There is a lot more data to be sifted through here because unlike the transported we're doing a search not just reading back from a pattern buffer.
Okay. How feisable is all that? I'm a chemist not a physicist but to me it's looking pretty unlikely.
How on Earth are you going to identify an IR pattern from all the other patterns? IR is simply photons af a certain wavelegth. They don't carry information telling you where they came from. So how are you going to be able to tell which signals came from where? We're also ignoring the problems caused by interferance and absorbtion of the IR signal. Diffferent atmospheres and surroundings result in different values for all of these. The captain in a cave is going to put out less IR than the captain on top of a mountain due to the distance and material the IR is going to have to travel through to get to the ship.
There is no way that you're going to be able to tell that the IR signal from any location belongs to any particular race let alone scan a planet looking for someone belonging to that race.
Active Sensors
Now we're on more fantastical grounds. Its harder to tell what we'll be able to detect using active sensors in the future but we can still take a guess.
1. Any active sensor has to send a signal that blankets the entire planet and picks up the reflections.
2. The form of radiation used must be completely harmless or else the Enterprise will find iteself attacked all over the place for using it.
3. The form of radiation must return a different signal depending on what it hits.
4. The sensor must be able to deal with the huge amount of data it's going to get back from pinging every single molecule on the planet below them. (I suspect this is actually even more data than the IR sensor had to deal with).
Quite frankly this is looking just as silly as monitoring IR.
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Originally posted by Tiara
Ok, one more time:
They AREN'T analyzing their blood. They are analyzing the METALS in their blood.
Can't be done.
I can name several analytical techniques you could use to identify an unknown metal. They all require a sample of the mixture containing the metal.
Admittedly most of my analytical training consisted of work on organic molecules rather than inorganic metals but even if there is a method of detecting metals that isn't invasive that I'm missing it would require stimulating the metal with some form of radiation and listening to the echos.
The problem is that every single atom of the metal on the planet would respond in the same way. So how do you tell that someone was human or mearly a vulcan standing with an iron containing mineral behind him?
Tiara you simply aren't grasping the level of difficulty involved in this.
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You're all/both wrong.
It's stupid to assume they could do it as easily as they do, but they could still do it.
So STFU or I'm gonna get some stamps, boxes and lumps of tricycloacetone peroxide putty and blow you both into itty-bitty pieces.
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Originally posted by an0n
It's stupid to assume they could do it as easily as they do, but they could still do it.
Either back up that assertion or I'll assume you're talking out of your arse about a subject you couldn't hope to understand.
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You can assume whatever the **** you please. You're still wrong and I don't need to justify my assertions to you.
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No I'm not. You're wrong and haven't got the balls to risk me proving it.
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You realise there's an entire field of science that completely blows your protestations outta the water, right?
Spectrometry (methinks, you know what I mean anyway).
And they're already working on **** to filter out atmospheric noise from images.
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Kara, before you sprout your so called 'knowledge' around, do some research. :p
I didn't say they did it like that I just gave a few options on how they COULD be doing it.
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Well, I don't know much about science as such, but if NASA can identify new molecules in Nebulae in the centre of the galaxy now, I wouldn't be surprised to find out that not only is it technologically possible to identify and locate individuals through some kind of radiative 'signiature', such as blood metal charge etc, but that Governments are pouring every penny they can spare into reseraching it ;)
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Originally posted by Flipside
Well, I don't know much about science as such, but if NASA can identify new molecules in Nebulae in the centre of the galaxy now, I wouldn't be surprised to find out that not only is it technologically possible to identify and locate individuals through some kind of radiative 'signiature', such as blood metal charge etc, but that Governments are pouring every penny they can spare into reseraching it ;)
That's done by spectroscopy. The atoms and molecules in those nebulae absorb different wavelegths of light. By seeing which particular bands are missing it's easy to tell what compounds are present in the nebula.
Spectroscopy works because
1. Nebulae are pretty simple consisting of mostly simple gases.
2. The light from nebula is relatively strong (so nice strong bands can be observed).
3. The astronomer focuses his equipment on just the nebula.
Believe me I thought of spectroscopy when I was saying why Star Trek scanners wouldn't work. It and related techniques wouldn't be able to cope with a complicated mixture of different elements. Whenever we had to do some form of spectroscopy in the lab we had to make sure our compounds were pure because a mixture would simply result in a completely black spectrum as all the light would be absorbed by all the different chemicals present.
The biggest problem I have with sensors is not detecting the signal from light years away. It's seperating the signal from every other signal that is being generated near it.
An attempt at spectroscopy on Earth would pick up the chemicals that make up Earth because they'd simply swamp out any other chemical.
Originally posted by Tiara
Kara, before you sprout your so called 'knowledge' around, do some research. :p
I did a degree in analytical chemistry. I've written essays on detection methods and their flaws. How much more research do you need before you're happy? :p
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Originally posted by karajorma
I did a degree in analytical chemistry. I've written essays on detection methods and their flaws. How much more research do you need before you're happy? :p
You are making one fatal mistake. You assume that only modern science applies to these scanners.
You totally forget about subspace scanning. You totally forget about the centennia of advancement these scanners have been through. You are forgetting that also alien technology has been included.
Take all these things into account (or even only that there have been about 300-400 years of advancement) and it really isn't that hard to see scanners that can pick up individual biosigns.
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Originally posted by Tiara
You are making one fatal mistake. You assume that only modern science applies to these scanners.
You totally forget about subspace scanning. You totally forget about the centennia of advancement these scanners have been through. You are forgetting that also alien technology has been included.
Take all these things into account (or even only that there have been about 300-400 years of advancement) and it really isn't that hard to see scanners that can pick up individual biosigns.
I'm not forgetting about any of those things at all. If anyone is forgetting them it's you since you originally claimed they did it through heat sources and analysing the blood.
Subspace scanning isn't magic you know. Reread everything I said about active sensors it's almost all equally applicable to subspace scanning.
You must have some way of picking out an individual out of all of the other signals a subspace scan would produce. Doing that would require more computing power than the transporters ever use but I don't remember ever hearing that sensors do. You're going to get a signal back from every single atom in the entire planet you're scanning. That's just too much data.
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I think this whole argument is silly. :p
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No. It's vitally important and must be preserved for all time :p
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Oh dear god tell me this isn't happening.
I remember when I started working at Intuit, I went outside for a cigarette and listened to two overweight trek-geeks nearly come to blows over an argument of "Who Would Win In A Fight - The Empire or the Federation".
The answer of course is......
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I'm a Trekkie but the Empire would win with it's thousands of SDs and the spunk soaked ICS.
I'm not forgetting about any of those things at all. If anyone is forgetting them it's you since you originally claimed they did it through heat sources and analysing the blood.
Subspace scanning isn't magic you know. Reread everything I said about active sensors it's almost all equally applicable to subspace scanning.
You must have some way of picking out an individual out of all of the other signals a subspace scan would produce. Doing that would require more computing power than the transporters ever use but I don't remember ever hearing that sensors do. You're going to get a signal back from every single atom in the entire planet you're scanning. That's just too much data.
First of all, those were just a FEW example (note the 'etc etc' part).
And now you claim to know everything about subspace. Subspace is a totally different layer of space. Normal physics do not apply. We know exactly **** about subspace besides the fact that its used for precise and long distance scanning, communication and transport. Don't go and claim to know about subspace and saying its almost the same as active scanning because you don't know.
Too much data? Eh, must I remind you that the computer is capable of scanning, analyzing, etc etc of entire solar systems and telling what particle goes where. What atam goes where, etc etc?
Again, it;s science fiction. But in Trek obviously it IS most definately possible.
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Originally posted by Tiara
And now you claim to know everything about subspace. Subspace is a totally different layer of space. Normal physics do not apply. We know exactly **** about subspace besides the fact that its used for precise and long distance scanning, communication and transport. Don't go and claim to know about subspace and saying its almost the same as active scanning because you don't know.
Too much data? Eh, must I remind you that the computer is capable of scanning, analyzing, etc etc of entire solar systems and telling what particle goes where. What atam goes where, etc etc?
Again, it;s science fiction. But in Trek obviously it IS most definately possible.
Oh come on.
I never said that I know everything about subspace but you obviously are if you're saying that everything in Trek is possible. The whole way they use subspace is hypothetical so how you can claim it's all real is beyond me. Quite often it contradicts current scientific thinking.
And as for the data thing it's not just a case of storing the data. The computer has to be able to then search and compare that against the record and tell what species the data it's scanning is.
And you're telling me that all this makes more sense than the way B5 handles its sensors? :lol:
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I'm not talking about physics flaws (Since it's science-fiction, they can have any laws of physics they want.)
I'm talking about pure logical flaws.
For instance, in your B5 example, you don't know just how good the sensors are. I don't recall that they ever said that they can detect nukes.
In ST however, Klingons are far stronger than humans (Worf can lift a typical human with one hand). And then we have Klingons fighting humans and beeing unable to overpower them... Klingons can't even overpower a Ferengi in mele combat!
Like I said, I have tons of examples...
And if that doesn't bother you, how about the fact that TNG had only a few such flaws, while DS9 and VOY had over 2 pages each!
And I haven't even watched all the episodes!
And Sisko is not fit to be a capitain. Anyone who poisions a whole planet just like that and does other similar stupidities is only fit for a zoo.....
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Kara; Let's just drop it. We can argue about this all day but it wouldn't make a difference :p
Originally posted by TrashMan
I'm not talking about physics flaws (Since it's science-fiction, they can have any laws of physics they want.)
I'm talking about pure logical flaws.
For instance, in your B5 example, you don't know just how good the sensors are. I don't recall that they ever said that they can detect nukes.
Exactly, and in ST they at least make an attempt to explain it (using Trek physics ofcourse :p)
In ST however, Klingons are far stronger than humans (Worf can lift a typical human with one hand). And then we have Klingons fighting humans and beeing unable to overpower them... Klingons can't even overpower a Ferengi in mele combat!
If a small skinny guy has skills he can overpower a powerlifter. Raw power has little to do with a fight unless both sides only have just that.
And Klingons typically only have raw power. Unless they have had special training like Worf. Worf is a very dedicated fighter.
And besides, the Ferengi you're talking about has been kicked around by Klingons on more then one occaision. You're probably talking about Quark. Remember how he needed Worf's help to defeat that guy in a Bat'Leth battle?
Like I said, I have tons of examples...
Of which many can be easily explained.
And if that doesn't bother you, how about the fact that TNG had only a few such flaws, while DS9 and VOY had over 2 pages each!
And I haven't even watched all the episodes!
About VOY, I totally agree. that was a piece of crap with so many flaws I can't even count them.
TNG had such flaws as well. But there, as in DS9, they could be explained.
You just don't like DS9 so you won't even try to see past the obvious. Then it's only natural that you only see the flaws and not the explainations for those flaws.
And Sisko is not fit to be a capitain. Anyone who poisions a whole planet just like that and does other similar stupidities is only fit for a zoo.....
Sisko was one of the few captains in Starfleet that actually had some balls. He didn't hesitate when he had to take action. Sure, his actions weren't always the best. But its not like Picard of Kirk ever made some stupid mistakes.
Sisko was in the middle of a war. He was on the front lines He made the tough decisions. And he did it well. Without him Terok Nor maight never have been recaptured. Hell, the war might never have been won. It was his tactical planning for that crucial sector that gave the Federation back control there.
The fact that he had flaws made him believable. And not an uptight Starfleet ***** that does whatever they say he should do. But I guess that's what you want to see in a tv series. Boring ass lapdogs.
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A pretty big battle was going on, so would they be able to identify Sheridan wth all that radiation flying around?
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I don't even WATCH 'trek.
because it's stupid, technobabble-oriented, pacifist treehuggin' crap.
or soemthing like that.
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Originally posted by TrashMan
I'm not talking about physics flaws (Since it's science-fiction, they can have any laws of physics they want.)
Of course they can. I'm quite happy to let any sci-fi universe completely flout the laws of physics. The problem is that they have to be consistant with it.
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Originally posted by Havock
I don't even WATCH 'trek.
because it's stupid, technobabble-oriented, pacifist treehuggin' crap.
or soemthing like that.
******slaps Havock*
If you don't watch it, don't judge it.
:ick:
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All science fiction is based on a solid layer of utter bollocks, supported by 'future advances' or 'alien technology', anyways.
Personally, I think ST is in the large a bunch of preachy, self important and vapid crap. And that's after I used to watch it - a lot - at primary school.
But, each to their own.
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Its gotta be spock for me, because spock is the man, with the eyebrow thing and the logicality, and the fact that all he needed for distinction between spock and parallel-universe spock was a goatee
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Originally posted by Turambar
Its gotta be spock for me, because spock is the man, with the eyebrow thing and the logicality, and the fact that all he needed for distinction between spock and parallel-universe spock was a goatee
Like Flexo and Bender?
(http://www.futurama.firstream.net/rsrc/persos/flexo.jpg)
Flexo
(http://collectorama.murderhorn.com/pictures/voices/bender.gif)
Bender
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Tiara, when I talked about the atmosphere, I was talking about its effect on any kinds of reading you do, especially heat readings. Then I refered to the Hubble as an example to why atmosphere would probably f*ck any sensors precision.
As for the blood, one last f*cking time...
ARE YOU GOING TO ANALISE THEIR F*CKING BLOOD?!?!? :mad:
Yes, you are analising the metals in their blood, but to find those metals, you need to analise their blood! You can't just point something at a person and say they got titatium on their blood. How are you going to detect those metals on a person, especially from orbit?
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Analising blood... mmm... kinky... ;7
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Originally posted by Tiara
Kara; Let's just drop it. We can argue about this all day but it wouldn't make a difference :p
Exactly, and in ST they at least make an attempt to explain it (using Trek physics ofcourse :p)
If a small skinny guy has skills he can overpower a powerlifter. Raw power has little to do with a fight unless both sides only have just that.
And Klingons typically only have raw power. Unless they have had special training like Worf. Worf is a very dedicated fighter.
And besides, the Ferengi you're talking about has been kicked around by Klingons on more then one occaision. You're probably talking about Quark. Remember how he needed Worf's help to defeat that guy in a Bat'Leth battle?
Klingons are trained warriors. They live only for battle. They have the raw power, the training, the skills - yet the suck big time in DS9...
About VOY, I totally agree. that was a piece of crap with so many flaws I can't even count them.
TNG had such flaws as well. But there, as in DS9, they could be explained.
You just don't like DS9 so you won't even try to see past the obvious. Then it's only natural that you only see the flaws and not the explainations for those flaws.
When DS9 started I prayed for it to be good. I WANTED another great ST series. After the several few eposiodes I tought it was good. But then they started with the stupidities.
So tell me, who is the blind one here?
Not me.. I'm trying to keep an open mind and I'm analyzing this from the logical stanpoint, as objective as I can.
I spent weeks analyzing every TOS/TNG/DS9/VOY/ENt series I watched, and writing down what I observed.
i did'nt just write it coause I'm bored and coause I hate DS9 (whaich is what you seem to tink)
Sisko was one of the few captains in Starfleet that actually had some balls. He didn't hesitate when he had to take action. Sure, his actions weren't always the best. But its not like Picard of Kirk ever made some stupid mistakes.
Sisko was in the middle of a war. He was on the front lines He made the tough decisions. And he did it well. Without him Terok Nor maight never have been recaptured. Hell, the war might never have been won. It was his tactical planning for that crucial sector that gave the Federation back control there.
The fact that he had flaws made him believable. And not an uptight Starfleet ***** that does whatever they say he should do. But I guess that's what you want to see in a tv series. Boring ass lapdogs.
The guy is a bad actor. - That is a fact.
Sisko is a bad charachter. - That is my oppinion.
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To be fair to Trashman when I first started watching DS9 it really did bore me. I stopped watching halfway through season 1. When I came back to it around season 3 though the show had improved a lot.
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So, Trashman, did you actually WATCH the entire series or just season 1 or something? Cuz season 1 and 2 were... well a bit crappy. :p
Season 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 were great!
Now, it's just a matter of taste so let's drop it, ok?
Tiara, when I talked about the atmosphere, I was talking about its effect on any kinds of reading you do, especially heat readings. Then I refered to the Hubble as an example to why atmosphere would probably f*ck any sensors precision.
As for the blood, one last f*cking time...
ARE YOU GOING TO ANALISE THEIR F*CKING BLOOD?!?!?
Yes, you are analising the metals in their blood, but to find those metals, you need to analise their blood! You can't just point something at a person and say they got titatium on their blood. How are you going to detect those metals on a person, especially from orbit?
*sigh*
Atmosphere interference is being eliminated with modern day technology AS WE SPEAK! So, 300-400 years from now it won't be a problem.
YOU DON'T NEED TO ANALYSE THEIR BLOOD!
You just set the scanners to look for material X in conjucntion with feature X and viola. Seeing as the Enterprise has massive computing capability it can mix and match all features to determine wether it's one species or another.
And they can scan FOR LIGHTYEARS WORTH OF DISTANCE. From orbit is the like taking a panorama picture for us.
Can't you get it through your thick skull or something?
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I watched allmost the whole show.. skipped only a few episodes now and then...
And I see that my first statement was right..
Namely:
"Sadly, people's criteria have really gone down.."
Oh, well... not my problem...
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Originally posted by TrashMan
And I see that my first statement was right..
Namely:
"Sadly, people's criteria have really gone down.."
Oh, well... not my problem...
You are truly sprouting bull****. I happen to like it. If I don't, I'll say it.
Your generelization really id pile of **** that reeks so much people in China can small it.
As I said, it's a matter of taste, not criteria.
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No Tiara, you are the one with the thick skull, you are the one evading the question, how are you going to detect the presence of metal in an individual? Yes, you turn on the scanners and blah blah blah (technobabble). But HOW?!??
EDIT:
Seing that you seem not to get the question, as you keep answering WHAT you are going to analise in the blood instead of HOW, let me rephrase the question.
How is a scanner going to be able to pass through your skin, and into the blood to analise its contents... not to mention possible buildings in the way to the person, or even entire planets if the person in on the other side of it?
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Originally posted by Ghostavo
No Tiara, you are the one with the thick skull, you are the one evading the question, how are you going to detect the presence of metal in an individual? Yes, you turn on the scanners and blah blah blah (technobabble). But HOW?!??
By setting the scanners to search for iron, nickel, individual heat sources, etc etc... And ignore everything else.
I'm not pretending to know HOW the scanners work exactly because nobody does. I'm just saying how it COULD be done.
EDIT:
Seing that you seem not to get the question, as you keep answering WHAT you are going to analise in the blood instead of HOW, let me rephrase the question.
How is a scanner going to be able to pass through your skin, and into the blood to analise its contents... not to mention possible buildings in the way to the person, or even entire planets if the person in on the other side of it?
You haven't seen much Trek have you? If you dod you'd know that skin etc etc is nothing for scanners. Hell, they can scan a planet from mantle to core and back and say where what atom, particle, etc goes.
I'm not saying they can scan an entire planet's population at once. That's why they ORBIT planets. So that they can see on the surface on the other side. (Even though that shouldn't be too hard seeing as they can scan entire solar systems in a few seconds :p)
As for obstacles; even modern scanners can penetrate building and other materials.
Again, you are sseing it from a modern day perspective.
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Anyway from THOSE chioces I had to pick Riker. Because though he may suck up to his captain more than any XO in the HISTORY of Starfleet, he proves now again he can rise above being "the captain's Biatch". Like when he rescued Picard from the borg, and a few other tidbits. Especially since he got almost as much alien nookie as Kirk (but has the sense to "wrap that rascal" and hence has a much less EXTENSIVE medical profile then a said legendary captain :D (what was it 4 STD's Kirk contracted?) On top of that he STILL gets to do Deanna in between "layovers" ;7 and she still marries him later thus making him MINOR royalty on Betazed. Plus getting Picard with that Horgun joke was priceless...
Now from another set of picks It is a tie between Thomas Riker (his Transporter Double - you can't say clone cause they are BOTH the same person till the split) but he is kicks butt, takes names, and says the prime directive can kiss his freak ass! BTW HE is the one that made Kira his XO remember? That just shows you he is plain INSANE! he he...
Now the other person is even MORE freaky. Lady Kira The Intendant (mirror version of Major Kira). This girl is friggen twisted. Loves to torture/kill people. And then gets so worked up she needs to go "play" with the nearest accomadating male OR her favorite toy a certain submissive trill named DAX! WOOT! Plus being in that shiny black leather outfit while holding some type of whipping rod really turns me on! (I just wonder if she likes to recieve just as much?)
Now for this nonsence you people are arguing about... ST HAS readings they call bio-signitures. It's not so farfetched, the only LIMITING factor would be RANGE... I've seen scans that show blood flowing in the body as well as brain activity so how f*cking great a leap is it that they would be able to tell blood TYPES or races if they tie in medical databanks to the scanners or transporters!!!
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Originally posted by Star Dragon
Now for this nonsence you people are arguing about... ST HAS readings they call bio-signitures. It's not so farfetched, the only LIMITING factor would be RANGE... I've seen scans that show blood flowing in the body as well as brain activity so how f*cking great a leap is it that they would be able to tell blood TYPES or races if they tie in medical databanks to the scanners or transporters!!!
Thank you very much. :):p
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Ok, I think I see your position.
You haven't seen much Trek have you? If you dod you'd know that skin etc etc is nothing for scanners. Hell, they can scan a planet from mantle to core and back and say where what atom, particle, etc goes.
Actually, I've watched a lot of Trek, what do you think got me interested in English and Science? :p But because I like it, doesn't mean I agree or understand what they do, it is mearly entertainment. If there is a scientific explanation to what they are doing (not technobabble) even better. If skin is nothing to a scanner, what is the iron in the blood then to it? :p You are not seing exactly what I am asking (maybe it's my fault). In Trek they can do whatever they want, they are not limited by science (except on the most basic principles) when they get to more advanced "stuff" there is no limits to what they can do. So just by saying, they did that so that must be possible, is not a valid explanation.
How can a scanner use a frequency "powerful" enough to pass through those things, and yet stop when it reaches iron in the blood? And yet be harmless to be used over and over and over again? You see? That's my problem.
And they can scan FOR LIGHTYEARS WORTH OF DISTANCE
That's why they ORBIT planets.
Yet, you are the one who doesn't seem to watch enough Trek :D
Go see the Star Trek movie where they go into Earth's past to stop that Borg invasion. Just before they go, they scan the planet WITHOUT ORBITING IT!
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Originally posted by Tiara
Thank you very much. :):p
You couldn't let it lie could you? Okay. I'm back in. :D
Originally posted by Star Dragon
Now for this nonsence you people are arguing about... ST HAS readings they call bio-signitures. It's not so farfetched, the only LIMITING factor would be RANGE... I've seen scans that show blood flowing in the body as well as brain activity so how f*cking great a leap is it that they would be able to tell blood TYPES or races if they tie in medical databanks to the scanners or transporters!!!
I've said time and time again that I have no problem with short range scanners. Of course they work. If you beamed someone up you could tell instantly what species they were. The problem is not getting signals. The problem is figuring out which one is the one you want.
Take on of those MRI/PET scan machines and get a scan of all 6 billion people on Earth. Jumble them up. Now tell me how you'd figure out which one belongs to your next door neighbour? Given enough time I'm sure you could compare them until you found a couple that looked similar but how would you know you didn't accidently throw out the correct scan earlier?
And that's a fairly simple problem. When they scan a planet they don't actually know what is down there so the computer has to compare every single trace against every single one it has in memory.
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Wee... seriously, I don't give a rats ass :D
They work. Period. Don't care how, don't care why.
*wonders why she wasted time debating this pointless issue*
:D
*goes off to do more 'productive' stuff*
I'm currently writing a Trek fanfic about a real Borg war :D
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Originally posted by Tiara
They work. Period. Don't care how, don't care why.
And yet B5 was stupid for not accepting that as an explaination for why their sensors should be better? :lol:
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Originally posted by karajorma
And yet B5 was stupid for not accepting that as an explaination for why their sensors should be better? :lol:
Did I say they were stupid? If I did, sorry :p I just meant that they didn't even bother giving an explaination... whatsoever. That's what I thought was stupid.
That's what I meant :p
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Originally posted by Tiara
You are truly sprouting bull****. I happen to like it. If I don't, I'll say it.
Your generelization really id pile of **** that reeks so much people in China can small it.
As I said, it's a matter of taste, not criteria.
Matter of facts, which I provided after rigorus study...
Not a matter of tounge-lashing after thinking over it 1.5 seconds.
I have provided examples and facts. You haven't.
...
And no offense, but peoples criteria HAVE gone down IN GENERAL. That's what happens when beeing exposed ot so much bull**** on the TV (so many crap series in the last 10 years....)
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Originally posted by TrashMan
Matter of facts, which I provided after rigorus study...
Not a matter of tounge-lashing after thinking over it 1.5 seconds.
I have provided examples and facts. You haven't.
Each and every argument you've brought up were refutable.
And rigorus study? ROFLMAO! :lol: You provided some lose argument that no other basis then your own opinion.
You don't like him. Fine. You don't like how he plays his role. Fine. That's all your choice. But you seem to think that everyone has to agree with you. Which nobody has to. In any way. Sorry, but your pretentious attitude like this really ticks me off.
...
And no offense, but peoples criteria HAVE gone down IN GENERAL. That's what happens when beeing exposed ot so much bull**** on the TV (so many crap series in the last 10 years....)
Exactly, 'in general'. Hence why I called your statement a generalization. And generalizations are bull****. :doubt:
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I'm more concerned about this statement made by Tiara,
"I'm currently writing a Trek fanfic about a real Borg war"
Huh?
Do you mean assuming the Borg were acutally REAL (tryign to be scientific about it) OR do you mean a more in depth and tragic war? (as if the Borg 8472 war wasn't bad enough!)
Cause let me tell ya Sister (getting his Mr T voice ready)
"I pity the FOO cause it don't any more realer than that!"
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Originally posted by Star Dragon
I'm more concerned about this statement made by Tiara,
"I'm currently writing a Trek fanfic about a real Borg war"
Huh?
Do you mean assuming the Borg were acutally REAL (tryign to be scientific about it) OR do you mean a more in depth and tragic war? (as if the Borg 8472 war wasn't bad enough!)
Cause let me tell ya Sister (getting his Mr T voice ready)
"I pity the FOO cause it don't any more realer than that!"
:lol:
No I mean an actual Borg war instead of just sending one cube at a time. To try and show why Q said that Picacrd was arrogant to say that he 'could handle anything'. And why Q introduced him to them. (In 'Q Who')
Ofcourse, Q himself will be involved because you can't go wrong with an omnipotent arrogant prick :D
Personally, I'm not a fan of the Borg. But I'm going to try and elaborate some and show the Borg how I think they should've been presented in ST.
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Sounds interesting, I always find that Star Trek aliens tend to catch Humanity as you get to know them, which has always seemed a bit off :)
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To elaborate;
I think that in the Episode 'Q Who?' the Borg were initially presented pretty well. As a REAL threat. Not some pussified lego brick like in VOY. The way they handled the whole 'Locutus of Borg' was pretty ingenious as well. The Borg were actually bad ass in those days. They were feared. For good reason.
I want to build on that. And show the bad ass side of the Borg instead of the pussified Lego contruction sites.
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The introduction of the Borg Queen was stupid imo, they were a collective, not an insect hive :(
The whole thing that made the Borg untouchable was the fact that they had no single weak spot, they didn't stand around to tell the crew their diabolical scheme, they weren't humans in funny suits if you can bring that feeling back, it will certainly be worth a read! :)
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I'm going to ignore the existence of the queen outright. She just doesn't fit in the profile of the Borg. Period.
She won't make an appearance in my story most likely. And if she happens to get a role due to unforseen plot twists I'm downgrading her status within the collective by a lot. I'll probably make her 'just a different kind of drone with a different function'.
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Originally posted by Tiara
Did I say they were stupid? If I did, sorry :p I just meant that they didn't even bother giving an explaination... whatsoever. That's what I thought was stupid.
That's what I meant :p
They kind of expected you to figure it out. It wasn't really a hard concept. Everyone keeps them busy round the front while Sheridan sneaks in round the back.
As for the Borg. First Contact was a great film but it was like planting dynamite in a blocked toilet. Looks impressive but it will be followed by it raining **** all over you.
Voyage took the bad idea of a borg queen and turned it into an absolute travesty.
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Originally posted by Tiara
Each and every argument you've brought up were refutable.
And rigorus study? ROFLMAO! :lol: You provided some lose argument that no other basis then your own opinion.
You don't like him. Fine. You don't like how he plays his role. Fine. That's all your choice. But you seem to think that everyone has to agree with you. Which nobody has to. In any way. Sorry, but your pretentious attitude like this really ticks me off.
Exactly, 'in general'. Hence why I called your statement a generalization. And generalizations are bull****. :doubt:
Nothing was refutable.
No one has to agree with me, but they should agree with plain facts.
Klingons ARE stronger MUCH then humans and 90% of other ST races in general. - DS9 ignores this
Time travel is bull**** (especially the way it was done in DS9 and VOY).
Now I would love to stay and chat, but I have no time to write several pages worth of detailed examples right now.
And I can't help it if my oppinion and facts sometimes say the same, now can I?:D
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Originally posted by TrashMan
Nothing was refutable.
No one has to agree with me, but they should agree with plain facts.
Arrogance to the max :doubt:
Klingons ARE stronger MUCH then humans and 90% of other ST races in general. - DS9 ignores this
Ok, so we've seen a few instances where they were beaten? Those were either plot devices or in fights with aliens of which we don't know the strength.
You've been repeating this same bull**** argument time and time again but not once have you proven that this was common. i on the other hand have given you an example how they DID handle it correctly.
- The instance where Quark needed help from Worf to fight.
- Quark went on his knees before the Klingon High Council knowing he couldn't win the fight.
- Quark got beaten up by a female klingon in the same episode as the above statement.
- Worf's 'bachelor party'. Sisko, O'Brien and Bashir had difficulty coping with the heat and pain while Martok and Worf were all happy and singing and enjoying the experience.
- [insert a number of other instances here]
Any fight against Federation key characters just proves they indeed do have adequate hand-to-hand combat training at the acadamy.
Hence, a bull**** argument.
Time travel is bull**** (especially the way it was done in DS9 and VOY).
Well, on this we agree at least :p Most time travel in ST. Barring a select few instances and the ENT temporal (which is quite ingenious... besides the Nazi thing :p) war were just... ugh.
Now I would love to stay and chat, but I have no time to write several pages worth of detailed examples right now.
Aw, it's that it's been midnight over here but I would've loved and stay to refute you arguments like the one above. :doubt:
And I can't help it if my oppinion and facts sometimes say the same, now can I?:D
Your arrogance is only parralelled by Q. But at least he has an excuse to be arrogant :doubt:
your opinion != facts
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The klingons strenght was just one example (of many, many)...
And I said SOMETIMES....(Actually, most times)
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Well, I'm seem to recall the Klingons being described as a Warrior race, with high Physical prowess, they are bound by honour, and they are bound to their families.
I must admit, in all honesty, I never heard an official description of them being the physcially one of the strongest races in the Alpha quadrant (The Gorn?). They are probably stronger than Humans, but Mr Wolf never actually committed acts of superhuman strength, indeed, it has been suggested by scriptwriting that Vulcans are quite possibly stronger.
Anyway, it's a sci-fi series..... :nervous:
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Wow, I'm gone for a day and a half and you guys totally **** up the thread. Thanks. :p
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We try :p
Spock is the Man, every time, he created a stereotype for something that doesn't exist, how's that for an achievement! :D
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Originally posted by TrashMan
The klingons strenght was just one example (of many, many)...
And I said SOMETIMES....(Actually, most times)
And those would be...? Seeing as I already disproved your Klingon strength theorie I wanna know what else you think is 'wrong' with DS9.
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You didn't disproved nothing..
Klingons are warriors trained from birth. They live for battle, and melee weapons are their trademark. Not to mention they are stonger and physicly more durable.
Feds don't train in melee.
Chances that a fed officer(or ferengi) would win in melee is 1/1000 at best...
Bah.. I don't even know why I waste my precious time.
If some people want to remain blind to the truth, then so be it..
DS9 is way inferior to TNG....
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Jesus...
I think Kazan has met his match.
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In order of nautral strength:
[list=1]- Changeling
- Reman
- Jem Hadar
- Vulcan
- Klingon
- Nausican
In order of max strength:
[list=1]- Reman
- Changeling
- Klingon
- Jem Hadar
- Nausican
- Vulcan
In order of average strength:
[list=1]- Reman
- Changeling
- Klingon
- Jem Hadar
- Nausican
- Vulcan
Happy?
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Originally posted by TrashMan
You didn't disproved nothing..
Klingons are warriors trained from birth. They live for battle, and melee weapons are their trademark. Not to mention they are stonger and physicly more durable.
[/b]
*BUZZ*
So ****ing wrong. As seen in ENT, there is this attorney that is charged with Archer's defense. he SPECIFICALLY states that not all klingons are warriors. In fact, most aren't.
Again, you are just bull****ting yourself with your so-called facts and quasi-knowledge od ST.
Feds don't train in melee.
Chances that a fed officer(or ferengi) would win in melee is 1/1000 at best...
Oe, then why did the Bajoran ensign that trained under Worf in Klingon martial arts claim that she has had level three hand-to-hand combat training at the acadamy?
Again, you're bull****ting yourself.
Bah.. I don't even know why I waste my precious time.
If some people want to remain blind to the truth, then so be it..
DS9 is way inferior to TNG.... [/B]
ROFL! You are the one whos blind. You don't even look at the facts. You have your opinion and present it as fact. Your really naive you know. This so-called 'extensive research' you did is a joke. You have displayed no arguments supported by actual facts. Each any of your arguments can and have been refuted.
Also; 'DS9 is way inferior to TNG' IS A ****ING OPINION!. It just goes to show that your debating skills are without a doubt the worst ever.
You just ignore my arguments. Continue to throw around baseless arguments and insisting that your opinion is fact. :ick:
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Klingons ARE warriors (mostly) and you know that when you refer to proffesion it never applies ti the whole race (but as a general rule).
You and I oth know that VOY is the worst of all series.
Yet there are tons of VOY fans who would devour you alive if you tried to explain that to them.
The problem is in that "this series is soo good, I have to defend it to the death!" mantality.
I have no wish to write ALL of the examples again (wish I could find that txt file and copy paste, but I forgot to make a backup before I formatted! *stupid!*)
There were some in one of the thread around here..
But anyway, according to you everything is subjective and there is no way to actually rate a show (this way you actually say it's immpossible to give it a bad rating).
there has to be *something* according to which you can rate it.
Alas, you don't care about facts at all....
Bah...
If I find my old file I'll post it here, if not, I don't care...I lost too much time on this unsignificant debate allready....
I have dozens of forums yet to visit and it's allready late....
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Originally posted by TrashMan
Klingons ARE warriors (mostly) and you know that when you refer to proffesion it never applies ti the whole race (but as a general rule).
And yet we have a quote from a Klingon saying most aren't even true warriors. Sure, they are a proud race and most likely very strong by nature. But not by a long shot are they all trained warriors.
You and I oth know that VOY is the worst of all series.
Yet there are tons of VOY fans who would devour you alive if you tried to explain that to them.
Well, if they come here and want to debate it, I'll be more then happy to explain to them WHY it's crappy (supported with actual facts).
Though, to the casual 'tv-watcher' and the non-initiated sci-fi freaks it's a decent show with action and stuff.
The problem is in that "this series is soo good, I have to defend it to the death!" mantality.
Ow, I won't defend it to the death, I'll defend DS9 against bogus arguments like the ones you posted in this thread.
I'm not saying you have to like it, I'm just saying you shouldn't give flase arguments ans pass them off as fact to prove your point. If you don't like the show, that's fine. To each his own.
I have no wish to write ALL of the examples again (wish I could find that txt file and copy paste, but I forgot to make a backup before I formatted! *stupid!*)
There were some in one of the thread around here..
Too bad, I'd love to see what you have to say about it. :) (seriously)
But anyway, according to you everything is subjective and there is no way to actually rate a show (this way you actually say it's immpossible to give it a bad rating).
there has to be *something* according to which you can rate it.
Alas, you don't care about facts at all....
:lol: You are the one saying your opinion is fact. You are the one giving arguments but fail to support them with actual facts. Any arguments you put up in this thread I disproved.
And I'm NOT saying everything is subjective. If anything, you're the one doing that by failing to provide actual facts. I've supplied facts from the show to support my arguments, you haven't.
Bah...
If I find my old file I'll post it here, if not, I don't care...I lost too much time on this unsignificant debate allready....
I have dozens of forums yet to visit and it's allready late....
Be sure you do (in a new thread). I like debating this.
Though before you post any6thing, try to support your arguments with actual facts from the show and not just your opinion.
On a side note: I consider TNG on the same level as DS9. the best damned shows trek ever had. (Besides the TOS movies anyway :p)
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TNG is 10 times better...
And you haven't disproved anything I said yet....
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there are episodes of voyager i like....like the Year of hell parts 1 and 2, the Equinox parts 1 and 2..plus which ever epsiodes had species 8472 in it....oh ...i can't forget about Endgame man i loved those episodes....there have been alot of episodes solved by a simple move by the deflector...and there has been an aweful lot of timetravel....but it was explained in one episode by the peeps in the 29th century that they are tired of the voyager screwing with the time frame....now i'm goin to stop...
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Originally posted by TrashMan
TNG is 10 times better...
And you haven't disproved anything I said yet....
Ok, now you're just being a moron. :doubt:
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Isn't that why Braxton went insane and tried to destroy Voyager? He was the one who had to clean up all the temporal #### ups and eventually got stuck in the latter 20th century for 23-30 years.
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Originally posted by Liberator
Isn't that why Braxton went insane and tried to destroy Voyager? He was the one who had to clean up all the temporal #### ups and eventually got stuck in the latter 20th century for 23-30 years.
Yes, he was arrested for crimes he had yet to commit. They also had 4 Braxtons in custody :p They were to be integrated into one according to the second in command of the USS Relativity.
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Begs the question though, how can you justify arresting someone for crimes they have yet to commit? Their knowledge that they "will" commit the crime gives them the ability to prevent it. You just have to go far enough back to prevent it.
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Maybe he's so adamant in his convictions that knowing that he'll commit a crime wouldn't change anything, as he's wanted to do it all along.
If you, in the future, Killed Trashman... but I knew, and told you now, that wouldn't necesarily make you change your mind about killing Trashman, or hell, the future that I know could actually be the future where I already told you you were going to kill Trashman (based on what Sci-Fi universe you prefer). Either way, the will to kill Trashman would be there either way... unless you want to be a real detective, going back in time to figure out why you want to kill Trashman (because he slept with your girlfriend), so you prevent Trashman from banging your girl. But what's to stop your girl from hobbing knobs with some other guy, if it's in her nature to be a little slut? Maybe you'll just end up killing someone else...
I'm not really going anywhere with this anymore, am I?
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Why would I kill Trashman? I don't think I could work my way around to killing anybody personally, except maybe OBL. Him I'd torture and make him feel the pain of all the people that have died because of him and those like him.
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>You see? Such stupid dillemas and plot holes are why I hate time travel in ST.
As far as I'm concerened anything that was done after Gene died was not official.
And yes Tiara, you haven't disputed anything.
Firstly, what you said about all klingons not beeing warriors - that is correct, but has no influence on the strength/skill dispute since all klingons we saw fighting WERE warriors.
And I clearly must have skipped the episode where melee combat in Starfleet was mentioned. If it is so tan was in error, but still..
Do you really think that starfleet trains better melee fighters that the klingon empire?
Allso, if that doesn't bug you, how about that time-travel episode where they went in Kirk's time? You remember that scene with a brawl with klingons? I HATE THOSE WRITTERS!
Klingons in TOS looked like mogols becouse then they didn't have a big budget, nor good masks/special effects. We all know what Klingons look like from ST movies nad TNG. And even in DS9 episod we saw ancient klingon statues showing normal klingons.
But noooo... those writters HAD to put in that brawl scene(which was completely unimportant for the main plot - they could have gone without it!), and then invent some stupid reason why klingons looked different there..like some secret klingons never talk about...BAH!
Or the fact that Sisko and several of his officers go to infiltrate the most heavyily guarded instalation in the Klingon Empire!
Just like that - they send in Sisko! No training, no experience! Geez, they don't have special spies and commandos, they send in people with no knowledge oh Klingon culture (and they learn that on the way)! They infiltrate that installation wiht ease, I mean c'mon! If Klingon security was that bad even a ten year old baby could kill the chancelor!
You want more..I have tons more...but not now....
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Originally posted by TrashMan
Allso, if that doesn't bug you, how about that time-travel episode where they went in Kirk's time? You remember that scene with a brawl with klingons? I HATE THOSE WRITTERS!
Klingons in TOS looked like mogols becouse then they didn't have a big budget, nor good masks/special effects. We all know what Klingons look like from ST movies nad TNG. And even in DS9 episod we saw ancient klingon statues showing normal klingons.
But noooo... those writters HAD to put in that brawl scene(which was completely unimportant for the main plot - they could have gone without it!), and then invent some stupid reason why klingons looked different there..like some secret klingons never talk about...BAH!
You can't blame the writers of Trials And Tribulations for that one. People have been wondering why Klingons looked different in TOS since Worf was first seen in TNG. Most likely explaination is that some klingons did the same as the Kdapt priests from Ringworld and deliberately made themselves look human. It's pretty understandable why Worf wouldn't want to talk about something like that.
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Originally posted by TrashMan
>You see? Such stupid dillemas and plot holes are why I hate time travel in ST.
Well, as I said before. I don't like ST time travel either. So we agree on that :p
As far as I'm concerened anything that was done after Gene died was not official.
Gene was a special writer's breed. Instead of focussingn on war he didn't. He actually didn't like spacebattles at all. He wanted political intrigues and that sort of stuff. I agree with you that it was an superb writer and the TOS series also superb. But that doesn't discount the official status of TNG and DS9. Or VOY for that matter.
The fact that you don't count it as official is purely based on your own opinion. :)
And yes Tiara, you haven't disputed anything.
Firstly, what you said about all klingons not beeing warriors - that is correct, but has no influence on the strength/skill dispute since all klingons we saw fighting WERE warriors.
Yes, and we've also seen about a dozen more instances where Klingons kicked everyones ass. The Quark example was just pure luck as he was almost killed about 6 times after that incident. The one time that he won was because the Klingon was drunk and fell on his own knife. :doubt:
And I clearly must have skipped the episode where melee combat in Starfleet was mentioned. If it is so tan was in error, but still..
Was in TNG, dunno which particular episode from the top of my head though.
Do you really think that starfleet trains better melee fighters that the klingon empire?
I believe Starfleet trains it's officers more skillfully. After all, they have all the knowledge of the MACOs and all other combat units before them. They base their training on skill rather then strength. Like a Shoalin monk can kick the Ultimate Fighting Champion in the world in a few seconds.
The Klingons rely more on strength then skill. We've seen them charge their enemies without any precautions more then once. A lot of times even. That doesn't make them any less of a warrior race though. But it does put things in perspective.
They are still a fearsome warrior race. I agree. But you are acting like they are the pinnacle of skilled warriors.
For example, they aren't the smartest race out there. Or at least VERY temperamental. That obscures your fighting skills. (The first thing they teach you when you take up any form of fighting) Piss them off by insulting them and they charge you like a blind bear that smells blood. It isn't that difficult to beat someone like that if you have at least some skills.
Allso, if that doesn't bug you, how about that time-travel episode where they went in Kirk's time? You remember that scene with a brawl with klingons? I HATE THOSE WRITTERS!
Klingons in TOS looked like mogols becouse then they didn't have a big budget, nor good masks/special effects. We all know what Klingons look like from ST movies nad TNG. And even in DS9 episod we saw ancient klingon statues showing normal klingons.
But noooo... those writters HAD to put in that brawl scene(which was completely unimportant for the main plot - they could have gone without it!), and then invent some stupid reason why klingons looked different there..like some secret klingons never talk about...BAH!
As I said, I agree with you on the time travel issue. it's badly done in ST.
Also, the Klingon ridges were just a make-up issue :p They just 'tried' to make some sort of explaination (however stupid).
Or the fact that Sisko and several of his officers go to infiltrate the most heavyily guarded instalation in the Klingon Empire!
Just like that - they send in Sisko! No training, no experience! Geez, they don't have special spies and commandos, they send in people with no knowledge oh Klingon culture (and they learn that on the way)! They infiltrate that installation wiht ease, I mean c'mon! If Klingon security was that bad even a ten year old baby could kill the chancelor!
Klingons aren't exactly well known for their internal security. We've seen the Empire being overthrown by a single family. And we've seen the Empire strugle with it's internal business.
Their security is amongst the worst in the galaxy (amongst the major powers). With proper help it's easy.
And in that particular episode they had help from Worf. Who by that time had many friend amongst the high ranking officers. They probably used his contacts to get in.
[qoute]You want more..I have tons more...but not now.... [/quote]
And again your arguments are flawed. Your arguments have holes the size of a planet in them. You need to check the facts before implying it was badly written. You need to switch on your semi-intelliugent mode instead of the 'Set IQ to zero and watch'-mode. That's what Reality TV is for. :p
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Originally posted by Tiara
Well, as I said before. I don't like ST time travel either. So we agree on that :p
Gene was a special writer's breed. Instead of focussingn on war he didn't. He actually didn't like spacebattles at all. He wanted political intrigues and that sort of stuff. I agree with you that it was an superb writer and the TOS series also superb. But that doesn't discount the official status of TNG and DS9. Or VOY for that matter.
The fact that you don't count it as official is purely based on your own opinion. :)[/i]
HELLO! TNG was Gene's baby! Why did you list it under that other garbage.
And yes, while Paramount has the legal right to the ST license that still doesn't give them the right to turn everything upside down.
I believe Starfleet trains it's officers more skillfully. After all, they have all the knowledge of the MACOs and all other combat units before them. They base their training on skill rather then strength. Like a Shoalin monk can kick the Ultimate Fighting Champion in the world in a few seconds.
The Klingons rely more on strength then skill. We've seen them charge their enemies without any precautions more then once. A lot of times even. That doesn't make them any less of a warrior race though. But it does put things in perspective.
They are still a fearsome warrior race. I agree. But you are acting like they are the pinnacle of skilled warriors. ]/i]
In any description thy are mentioned as the most skilled and feared warrioirs in the quadrant. They don't rely on skill? Where do you get that?
TNG portraid Klingons far better than DS9 did.
The writers turned them into incompetebt fools whenever they were fighting the Fed's
For example, they aren't the smartest race out there. Or at least VERY temperamental. That obscures your fighting skills. (The first thing they teach you when you take up any form of fighting) Piss them off by insulting them and they charge you like a blind bear that smells blood. It isn't that difficult to beat someone like that if you have at least some skills.
Ahh..but how many times have the Fed's actually insult them when they fought? 1-2 times tops....
As I said, I agree with you on the time travel issue. it's badly done in ST.
Also, the Klingon ridges were just a make-up issue :p They just 'tried' to make some sort of explaination (however stupid).
But that's my point!
They DIDN'T HAVE to make ANY explanation, since the "old klingons" apperance was not necessary! It's a total screw-up!
Klingons aren't exactly well known for their internal security. We've seen the Empire being overthrown by a single family. And we've seen the Empire strugle with it's internal business.
Their security is amongst the worst in the galaxy (amongst the major powers). With proper help it's easy.
And in that particular episode they had help from Worf. Who by that time had many friend amongst the high ranking officers. They probably used his contacts to get in.
I suppose that would be tru for normal Klingon installations and such, but this was their comman base! The Chancelor was there!
No scan for DNA, no weapon scans and such..
I mean, please.. I know they have low security, but this is redicolous!
And that still doesn't explain why Starfleet would send that bunch in, rather then trained commandos/spies.
And again your arguments are flawed. Your arguments have holes the size of a planet in them. You need to check the facts before implying it was badly written. You need to switch on your semi-intelliugent mode instead of the 'Set IQ to zero and watch'-mode. That's what Reality TV is for. :p
Ahh...I love the smell of victory....
Switching to insluts becouse of depletion of serious argumenst...
I love it even more when they can't accept defeat:D
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Originally posted by TrashMan
But that's my point!
They DIDN'T HAVE to make ANY explanation, since the "old klingons" apperance was not necessary! It's a total screw-up!
Since neither of you appear to have read Ringworld you won't have got my point about the Kdapt priests.
In Larry Niven's Known Space universe the warlike Kzin have found several wars against humans. Even though they were much more advanced than them at first and physically stronger the Kzin have lost every single war.
After a while the Kdapt priests began to believe that the reason the humans kept winning was because the gods favoured the humans. The priests began a heretical religion which skinned human captives and wore the skins in an attempt to fool the gods for long enough to grant them victory.
Apply that to the klingons and you'd have a situation that explains pretty much everything :) By the time of TNG no klingon would ever want to mention what was going on.
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I don't think Klingons would do such a thing.
I belive it would be dishonorable....
And the point is that there was no explanation needed in the first place, for the Klingons were allways supposed to have looked like Klingons. Only when they made TOS they didn't have neither the budget or the good masks.
Having stupid witters doing the scenario is a bad idea...
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Originally posted by TrashMan
HELLO! TNG was Gene's baby! Why did you list it under that other garbage.
And yes, while Paramount has the legal right to the ST license that still doesn't give them the right to turn everything upside down.
*COUGH* TNG was his creation yes, but he didn't write most of it.
And it gives paramount EVERY right. That's why they call it a liscence.
TNG portraid Klingons far better than DS9 did.
The writers turned them into incompetebt fools whenever they were fighting the Fed's
*cough*
In TNG they were the incompetent fools. They charged enemies that had ranged weapons with blades for ****'s sake. And 99% of the time at least half got killed before even reaching the enemy.
Ahh..but how many times have the Fed's actually insult them when they fought? 1-2 times tops....
Every time they fought they were pissed. I don't think you've watched DS9 closely enough.
But that's my point!
They DIDN'T HAVE to make ANY explanation, since the "old klingons" apperance was not necessary! It's a total screw-up!
Agreed. But I was just explainin why. i wasn't arguing your point.
I suppose that would be tru for normal Klingon installations and such, but this was their comman base! The Chancelor was there!
No scan for DNA, no weapon scans and such..
I mean, please.. I know they have low security, but this is redicolous!
Did you not get that Bashir altered them that scans wouldn't detect them being Human? And Klingons don't scan for weapons because every friggin' Klingon carries a variety of them.
And that still doesn't explain why Starfleet would send that bunch in, rather then trained commandos/spies.
Because they 1). knew the situation, 2). Were closest, 3). Had already worked with many Klingons before (read: experience), 4). Worf trusted them
But this is story issue. Not a flaw in the continuity. I'd much rather have the main character in a story them a bunch of unknown peeps that disappear the next episode never to be heard from again.
Ahh...I love the smell of victory....
Switching to insluts becouse of depletion of serious argumenst...
I love it even more when they can't accept defeat:D
Ok, it's now official!
YOU ARE A ****ING MORON! You're a waste of time, space, air, flesh, and the rectum you were born from, retard. Maybe you wouldn't read like such a pathetic loser if that pimple on your ass hadn't turned out to be a brain tumor.
This is where I started to insult you btw. Before I did nothing of the sort
Seriously, you are the pinnacle of stupidity. If you think you are any good at debating, try going to Spacebattles.com and try your luck at the Vs. battles. You'll be curb stomped faster then you can '****, I'm loser!'.
Debating with the klikes of you is highly ****ing annoying. Claiming victory on the basis of a moronic opinion is truly something for you. You don't even seem to comprehend the 'quote' function in your posts. Let alone the world around you or the topiuc you are trying to discuss. And I'm emphasizing 'trying' because you seem to be missing the entire point of the word 'debate'. I'll help you:
de·bate Audio pronunciation of "debate" ( P ) Pronunciation Key (d-bt)
v. de·bat·ed, de·bat·ing, de·bates
v. intr.
1. To consider something; deliberate.
2. To engage in argument by discussing opposing points.
3. To engage in a formal discussion or argument. See Synonyms at discuss.
4. Obsolete. To fight or quarrel.
You only seem to understand the obsolete form of debate.
Instead of arguing your points like a normal point you claim your opinion as fact and claim 'victory'. If you still need to known; victory is not an issue in a debate. Get that through your thick skull. The point is to debate eachothers arguments yet in EVERY SINGLE ****ING post you decide to ignore the points I made and again claim your so-called victory. Again, I reiterate; IN EVERY ****ING POST!
You and your so-called 'extensive research' must've been done by a chiuaua with it's head blown off by a sawn off shotgun after it was railroaded into oblivion by my grandma's car.
You are truly the worst debater ever to exist and I will no longer waste my time on you. Learn to debate without your morinic stunts and I may consider giving you some time.
To any mods who read this: My apologies but such displays of moronism and ignorance tick me off. If you call this flame uncalled for, I really couldn't care less. People who refuse to take part in a civil debate without displaying any form of intelligence and keep on claiming they are right are nothing better then... Ok I'll just not finish this sentence before things get to harsh :p
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I say we ban the next person to flame in this thread.
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what is up with the klingon's nose ridge thing...did they get geneticly altered so that they didn't have to look like humans anymore? or was there some genetics scientist smokin the doobie while drunk on the job? and i'm not expecting an anwser....
*chants to himself...then knocks himself out with a big bat*
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I'm gonna take a stab in the dark and say it all had something to do with those damn Tribbles.
I mean, the Klingon Empire wouldn't waste time and energy wiping out an entire species just because they ate too much and hated Klingons.
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When did the Klingons exterminate all the Tribbles?
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Coming in quite late here, so excuse me if this has been covered already ...
Back the original ST days, Klingons didnt have ridges because they couldnt make/afford them in the budget at the time.
TNG, DS9, VOY and E all had the ridge things, because blatently they could afford it, only in the time travel episode where they went back to that tribble mess type jobbie did it ever become an issue because they were using film from the Original ST and the new.
So there for, it couldnt be helped, so in other words ... who cares?
Oh and Trash ... stop being an idiot, re-stating the same thing over and over again, no matter how many different ways your idiot brain can reiterate it, doesnt make it right.
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Originally posted by Tiara
Ok, it's now official!
YOU ARE A ****ING MORON! You're a waste of time, space, air, flesh, and the rectum you were born from, retard. Maybe you wouldn't read like such a pathetic loser if that pimple on your ass hadn't turned out to be a brain tumor.
This is where I started to insult you btw. Before I did nothing of the sort
Seriously, you are the pinnacle of stupidity. If you think you are any good at debating, try going to Spacebattles.com and try your luck at the Vs. battles. You'll be curb stomped faster then you can '****, I'm loser!'.
Debating with the klikes of you is highly ****ing annoying. Claiming victory on the basis of a moronic opinion is truly something for you. You don't even seem to comprehend the 'quote' function in your posts. Let alone the world around you or the topiuc you are trying to discuss. And I'm emphasizing 'trying' because you seem to be missing the entire point of the word 'debate'. I'll help you:
You only seem to understand the obsolete form of debate.
Instead of arguing your points like a normal point you claim your opinion as fact and claim 'victory'. If you still need to known; victory is not an issue in a debate. Get that through your thick skull. The point is to debate eachothers arguments yet in EVERY SINGLE ****ING post you decide to ignore the points I made and again claim your so-called victory. Again, I reiterate; IN EVERY ****ING POST!
You and your so-called 'extensive research' must've been done by a chiuaua with it's head blown off by a sawn off shotgun after it was railroaded into oblivion by my grandma's car.
You are truly the worst debater ever to exist and I will no longer waste my time on you. Learn to debate without your morinic stunts and I may consider giving you some time.
To any mods who read this: My apologies but such displays of moronism and ignorance tick me off. If you call this flame uncalled for, I really couldn't care less. People who refuse to take part in a civil debate without displaying any form of intelligence and keep on claiming they are right are nothing better then... Ok I'll just not finish this sentence before things get to harsh :p
I tought you understand by know..I LIKE TO BUG YOU.... And repeating posts is as good as way as any to achive that goal...
I don't ever claim my oppinion is a fact.. I only claim that when I do present some facts (and I did research mind you) that i stand by them (and that you seem to try to twis them till they loose their meaning).
Oh..and belive it or not I am a great debater...never lost one... not even against my profesors from Logic and Philosophy:D
The worst result was a stailmate...
I really wish I culd find that friggin list, so I don't have to go over the same points (tat you haven't desputed by the way...you just softned them)
anyway, I have found something very usefull I want to show you..---------------
You have been selected to recieved this
Official Forum Flame:
=========== ============ ============= ==========
Dear:
[ ] Clueless Newbie
[ x] Loser
[ ] 12 year old
[ ] Troll
[ ] Pervert
[ ] Geek
[ ] Spammer
[x ] Wannabe
[ ] Asskisser
[ ] Lamer
[ ] AOL user / Freeserver
[ ] kEwL wArEz d00d
[ ] Web TV user
[ ] Fanboy
[ ] Me too er
[ ] B!LLYNOSE
[ ] Silly~Sod, Willy~Wod, or Zilly~Zod
[X] Fool
[ ] l33t h4x0r
[x ] Guy from Mental Institution
[ ] All of the above
[ ] Warlock the (un)Wise
[ ] Whiplash 2020
[ ] Other:
You Are Being Flamed Because
[ ] You posted "Whiplash out!" in your post.
[ ] You posted your opinons in the third person
[ ] You posted "Wow I read the whole thread!" or equivelant in your post
[ ] You posted a .999_ = 1 thread
[ ] You posted a Release Date thread
[ ] You posted a Patch thread
[ ] You posted an PC vs X-Box thread
[ ] You posted a System Specifications thread
[ ] You posted a (InsertRandomRPG) vs DiabloII thread
[ ] You committed crimes against pork biproducts
[ ] You posted a "YOU ALL SUCK" message
[ ] You haven't read the FAQ
[ ] You don't know which forum to post in
[ ] You just plain suck
[ ] You posted false information
[ ] You posted something totally uninteresting
[ ] You doubleposted
[ ] You posted a message all written in CAPS
[ ] You posted racist crap
[x ] I don't like your tone of voice
[ ] You posted a binary in a non-binary group.
[ ] You asked for a f***ing CD Key
[ ] You posted a HTML-message in a non-HTML environment.
[ ] You insulted a respected regular of this group
[x ] Do I need a reason? Your a freakin' loser
[ ] You posted a test message in a newsgroup other than alt.test.
[ ] You posted the stupidest question I have ever heard
[ ] You quoted an ENTIRE thread in your reply
[ x] You continued a long, stupid thread
[X] You are in violation of basic netiquette.
[ ] You asked a question that is covered in the FAQ.
[ ] You posted a "get rich quick" message. and/or pyramid scheme
[ ] Your are using pirated software.
[ ] You brag about things that never happened
[ ] You asked for cheats
[ x] Just because
[ ] All of the above
[X] Other: You didn't read the thread before posting - not even the first post
In Punishment, You Must:
[x ] STOP IT!!! STOP IT NOW!!!
[ ] ALWAYS read ALL of the thread and NEVER tell ANYBODY!
[X] S.T.F.U. & G.T.F.O.
[ ] Read the f****** FAQ
[x ] Be Pat Buchanan's love slave
[ ] Go to your room with no supper
[ ] Apologize to everybody on this forum
[X] Go stand in the middle of a Highway
[ ] Learn about the Internet ( ).
[X] Using your real name/adress, post repeated anti-feminist messages in
[ ] Lurk for at least 2 weeks before you post again.
[ ] Go to ( ) and brush up on your netiquette.
[ ] Take a soothing bath with an electrical appliance.
[ ] Limit yourself to 2 hours of My Little Pony per day.
[ ] Kick a pitbull in the balls.
[X] Ask Microsoft Support for advice on how to use a pirated MS product.
[ ] Refrain from posting until you have a vague idea what you're doing
[X] Stop masturbating for a: [ ] week [ ] month [ ] year [X] hour
[ ] Get yourself sprayed/neutered
[ ] Turn yourself in to the cops.
[ ] Ask the nurse to increase your medication.
[ ] Give up your AOL / Freeserve account
[X] Bust up your modem with a hammer and eat it
[X] Actually post something relevant
[X] Wipe your *** on the way out, you've left a terrible smell around here.
[ ] Change your alias from "Player" to something which accurately describes how completely godawful your MaD sKiLLz at gaming are. "I blow" is deemed to be appropriate.
[X] Ensure you're further forward in the queue when God next hands out brains.
[ ] All of the above
[ ] Other:
In Closing, I'd Like to Say:
[ ] How! Good! Is! This! Exclamation marks! Yey! *BANG*
[ ] Warlock the (un)Wise is a tool...
[X] Blow me
[ ] Get a life
[X] Never post again
[X] I pity your dog
[ ] Go to hell
[X] I think your IQ must be 7
[ ] Take your **** somewhere else
[ ] S.T.F.U. & G.T.F.O.
[ ] Learn to post or **** off
[ ] Go jump into some industrial equipment
[ ] *PLONK*
[X] Screw yourself with a 2x4
[ ] Seek professional help.
[ ] Lick a wall socket.
[ ] All of the above
[ ] Other:
=========== ============ ============= ==========
The preceding Forum Form Flame was constructed for use on people
not worthy of actual thought or effort in being flamed. People so
STOOPID that a simple copy/paste and a few check marks is all
that's necessary to properly relay the flamer's contempt for the
flamee.
-
Wow, you are an idiot.
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I think you should take your own advice and stfu.
n00b...
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We will see a new breed of yob soon, they'll leap out on people and ask them the frequency of a standard Federation Phaser, and if they don't answer right, they'll kick the sh*t out of them ;)
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Did I anger you with that post above Tiara?
Don't sweat it...it's only joke, I don't really mean it...
But I guess, that just like you, I get very frustrated when other people can't see what I percive to be common sense (and what in 99% cases is common sense)
Anyway, it is completely clear that no ammount of facts of oppinions ig gonna change anything from either side. We're both stuck with our oppinions and that's it..
I'll be a better man here and quit wasting my time and energy right now... have exams tomorrow and have to travel away..
But if that column I wrote pops up, I just my open another thread for it..maby...
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... when did you become more queer than Stealth? I feel like I missed something big...
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...Hey dude...I don't yell on women I don't know....
If that makes me queer in your eyes, fine...
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You might not've meant anything you said but I did. You ****ing n00b troll. You've surpassed the boundries of trollness. Your motto is probably:
"To seek out the n00b in me and explore the voids in my cranium. To bodly troll where no man has trolled before."
Maybe later in life, after you have learned to read, write, spell, and count, you will have more success.
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O.k....now I mean what I said...
"Thou demon wench!":D
I really ought to edit that previous post and check ALL boxes...
As a matter of fact, I will....
You know...it really worries me just how easy is to start to hate someone for allmost nothing... Oh well..
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Rather not know how big it was... or not...
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Originally posted by TrashMan
You know...it really worries me just how easy is to start to hate someone for allmost nothing... Oh well..
Quite. :wtf:
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Originally posted by TrashMan
...Hey dude...I don't yell on women I don't know....
If that makes me queer in your eyes, fine...
No, acting like a complete moron does.
Originally posted by TrashMan
You know...it really worries me just how easy is to start to hate someone for allmost nothing... Oh well..
Yet you make it so easy, don't you?
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To each it's own...
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could someone drill this nail diped in the river of styxx, made outta spare parts from Zeus's chariot, and created by Vulcan....into my skull....i'll give you this cookie made from the finest cow's milk, and with the finest choclate chips....
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Trashman, you loathesome bugger, how DARE you talk to a lady like that? Do you kiss your mother with that mouth?
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Originally posted by Tiara
*BUZZ*
So ****ing wrong. As seen in ENT, there is this attorney that is charged with Archer's defense. he SPECIFICALLY states that not all klingons are warriors. In fact, most aren't.
[/B]
He also said the society was rapidly becoming more and more militaristic... :nervous:
On an unrealted note - this thread is hilarious :D
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You know you're being a loser when Liberator can make fun of you too.
*runs*
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[Better not to post this]
Consider I said nothing. If anyone has read it already. :nervous:
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Originally posted by Knight Templar
You know you're being a loser when Liberator can make fun of you too.
*runs*
Now that's funny :D
-
Let's set a few things straight!
1.)
I don't care if you think I'm a idiot. You don't know me..
I don't care if everyone on this forum thinks I'm an idiot. In fact, I don't care if 6,999,999,000 on the planet thing I'm an idiot.
The only people who's judgmen I care about is the ones that really know me..
2.)
Yes, I have repeated some things nedleesly... An some I should have repeted more, since I see some people still don't get the point . Doesn't relly matter now...
3.)
I can see why some of you are pissed. You like Tiara. Heck, I like her too.
But I'm not the one who started with the insults. And I didn't reply with insults (unill later)
4.)
I had the most strange dream yesterday. I can't even begen to explain it. Suffice to say it opened my eyes!
All TV series are crap. All gamnes are crap. They are all EVIIIILLLL.
I'm seeling my PC and starting to spend my time more productivly.
So, you probably won't be seeing me again...cu guys.
Loved each and everyone of you...
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Originally posted by TrashMan
Let's set a few things straight!
1.)In fact, I don't care if 6,999,999,000 on the planet thing I'm an idiot.
The only people who's judgmen I care about is the ones that really know me..
So you have no friends?
4.)
I had the most strange dream yesterday. I can't even begen to explain it. Suffice to say it opened my eyes!
All TV series are crap. All gamnes are crap. They are all EVIIIILLLL.
I'm seeling my PC and starting to spend my time more productivly.
So, you probably won't be seeing me again...cu guys.
Loved each and everyone of you...
err.... riight...
Victory! :D
-
You know, I think I'm going to print this thread and keep it :D
-
This place needs a thread archive like Warpstorm's "Hamunaptra"
-
I would like to agree with the first point of Trashman's post. I also wanted to follow it when I received my very first insult(I think it was by ZylonBane with his "foreigners are cheap and reliable sort of entertainment"), but somehow I couldn't follow it, because I was thinking into what the others who visit the thread will be thinking about me(the insultee, if such word exists).
If Trashman is serious about selling his computer and leaving, I will be very depressed. If somebody, I can understand his feelings.
Trashman: If you keep visiting this thread(and HLP), please take my advice: Unsubscribe this thread, and leave the forum life go on. With time, everybody but a very few people will forget the events in this thread. And even those few people who will remember this thread WON'T be going to mention it.
And in addition, there is something else Trashman and I have in common. but I do not intend to write it down. Everyone who knows me at HLP may have a guess what it is.
-
You're both closet foot fetish freaks?
:p
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Incorrect.
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Meh. Shows how much I know...
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I came, I saw.... and I don't believe my eyes!
- Julius Ceaser, Asterix in Britain :D
-
IF he stops work on SDF-1 I can actually imagine hunting all of you down (MUAHAHAHA)
REPENT!
Trash, let it go.. You know you can't resist FS2 !!!
-
Nah...I'm not going to leave... It was a joke (or a test if you want it).
I just wanted to know how you would react.
The best way to judge someone's charachter is to see how they treat someone who can't defend himself (or someone who is leaveing, somone who is ill, somone who opens his soul..anyway, you get the picture..)
@KT - What? Dude, brush up on your math. I do belive there ae more than 7 billion people on earth at this time.
@Everyone who I've been helping - don't worry gusy. I'm here to stay.
B.t.w. - StarDragon, the SDF-1 is more or less done(not turreted, but otherwis o.k.)... just the Prometheus sucks..
-
Originally posted by TrashMan
@KT - What? Dude, brush up on your math. I do belive there ae more than 7 billion people on earth at this time.
Nope (http://www.census.gov/cgi-bin/ipc/popclockw)
So you've basically said that even a fair percentage of dead people hate you :D
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That's 'only' 6 milliard and 378 million.
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The word you were looking for is billion TopAce :)
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Now, I absolutely do not understand the situation.
1 Milliard = 1000 million, right?
1 Billion = 1000 Milliard, not?
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It's funny to see how Trash is trying to cover his ass with stuff like 'it was only a joke', 'didn't mean it', etc etc.
:p
-
Could someone explain to me - what the hell is going on here?
Oh, and 1 billion = 1000 million (US) OR 1 million million (British / European)
IIRC 1 trillion = 1000 billion, and a quintillion = 1000 trillion (UK / Europe values)
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Originally posted by aldo_14
Could someone explain to me - what the hell is going on here?
Oh, and 1 billion = 1000 million (US) OR 1 million million (British / European)
IIRC 1 trillion = 1000 billion, and a quintillion = 1000 trillion (UK / Europe values)
10^6 = 1 Million
10^9 = 1 Billion (in english language) = 1 Milliard (at least in German language and probably other languages)
Above that it gets more complicated, since there are several systems and country-bound standards, and it gets confusing with Billiards, Trillions, Trilliards, etc....
Google for "Pelletier" and "Chuquet" if you're interested.
Better use 10^x notation to be on the safe side.
EDIT: I just spent about 1 hour reading this thread and laughing my ass off.
-
TopAce is actually correct with his values for the milliard but even most British people don't use that word any more as it gets too confusing.
I think we should just drop the British billion once and for all. No one I know uses milliard any more.
Originally posted by Col. Fishguts
Google for "Pelletier" and "Chuquet" if you're interested.
Google for googol while you're at it :D The name of the search engine is derived for the term for 10^100 :D
As for language I suggest dropping millions completely and just using the scientific terms kilo, mega and giga from now on.
"The US national debt has now reached 100 GigaDollars" just sounds so much cooler :D
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Originally posted by TrashMan
@KT - What? Dude, brush up on your math. I do belive there ae more than 7 billion people on earth at this time.
Dude, brush your teeth. Your mouth reeks of dead people.
Originally posted by Kara
"The US national debt has now reached 100 GigaDollars" just sounds so much cooler :D
:D STFU :p
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I'm serious. It sounds like something from a sci-fi movie like Running Man or Total Recall.
I for one am rather annoyed that it's after the year 2000 and we're still not using credits :D
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Originally posted by karajorma
I'm serious. It sounds like something from a sci-fi movie like Running Man or Total Recall.
I for one am rather annoyed that it's after the year 2000 and we're still not using credits :D
Yeah, they missed an opportunity for naming the euro there.....
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Kilocredits, megacredits, gigacredits... FUN! :p
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[q]Could someone explain to me - what the hell is going on here?[/q]
TrashMan was arguing a viewpoint and declaring he had proof of his correct-ness without any real backing.
Tiara, clearly suffering from a female hormone imbalance decided to respond by guting him like so many cod fish we usually batter and eat on a saturday night at 3am.
Lib started talking about someone kissing thier mother, and I think that was avoided since incest is probably against GS's terms of hosting.
Then the rest of them found something new to argue about involving metric and imperial measures.
k? :D
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On a side note, I voted Riker - he seemed the most youthful yet confident. Chakotay came a close second because he had a level of agression trek needed more of for a reality touch.
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Originally posted by vyper
Lib started talking about someone kissing thier mother...
When did I do that?:confused:
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He's at it again!
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Mom! KT's babbling again! What should I do?
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Originally posted by Tiara
It's funny to see how Trash is trying to cover his ass with stuff like 'it was only a joke', 'didn't mean it', etc etc.
:p
Erm...couse it is the truth?
@KT - I don't trust those numbers. ANd I don't care..There are apprx 1000 people who know me and their oppinion about me is the only one I'm interested in....
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Originally posted by Liberator
Mom! KT's babbling again! What should I do?
Kiss her?
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Originally posted by Liberator
Trashman, you loathesome bugger, how DARE you talk to a lady like that? Do you kiss your mother with that mouth?
Incapable of even remembering what he says :rolleyes:
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That post was a bit aggressive, Lib, you know.
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Did this really start off about Star Trek commanders?
Everyone knows that Star Wars and Babylon 5 had all the good commanders anyway :)
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Originally posted by Flipside
Everyone knows that Star Wars and Babylon 5 had all the good commanders anyway :)
Vader dropped the shields of an ISD in the middle of asteroid to hold a holo conference or something? The destruction of the ISD followed. :p
First Contact with the Minbari also went VERY well indeed thanks to that commander. :p He almost got humankind detsroyed weren't it for devine plot intervention :p
SW ground commander: Jar-Jar. :lol: :p
EA commanders carrying out illigal orders to kill thousands of innocents.
Heh, i know it was a sarcastic comment but I just couldn't resist :p :D
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ROFL! Point taken, still, they failed with style well....except jarjar, whose simply failed. ;)
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You have a strange sense of style :p If getting one of the most powerfull warships in sci-fi destroyed by an asteroid just because Darth ****-for-brains had to phone home is 'failing in style'... :p
Or murdering thousands of innocents 'because the boss said so'...
Or firing on ships with gunports open BUT WEAPONS UNCHARGED and in the process almost dooming your civilization...
Or wel... Jar-Jar... well you know :p
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Originally posted by Tiara
Or firing on ships with gunports open BUT WEAPONS UNCHARGED and in the process almost dooming your civilization...
The scanners were down. They had no way of telling that the weapons were uncharged remember? :p
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Well, if you are going to screw up, you may as well screw up in a way that's going to be remembered for years ;)
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the current terran population is around 6,339,233,639...brought to by a some guy in the pizza parlor...
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Originally posted by neo_hermes
the current terran population is around 6,339,233,639...brought to by a some guy in the pizza parlor...
Wow, he must get a lot of ladies.
Tiara: Vader is too cool to care about an insignificant star destroyer. :p
Trashman: Right... so you find any fact that doesn't support what you're saying and disagree with it... and that somehow makes you think you 'win' arguements.
Just a hint buddy, those blokes you 'won' all those arguments against were laughing at you when they walked away, not with you.
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Originally posted by Knight Templar
Trashman: Right... so you find any fact that doesn't support what you're saying and disagree with it... and that somehow makes you think you 'win' arguements.
Nope.. I didn't say that.
I just said that on the net you can find lot's of conflicting information, and planet population is one of them. SO I wouldn't trust that info too much. It might be the truth, but then again, it might be not.
As for the ST, look all the TNG, DS9 and VOY episoded and write down all logical mistakes and plot holes, and you wil see that DS9 and VOY have LOT'S more of them than TNG. That is a fact.
Just a hint buddy, those blokes you 'won' all those arguments against were laughing at you when they walked away, not with you.
Wow... not only do you read minds, but apparently you can be at several places at once. I didn't even see you there!:D
You weren't there, now were you? So you're not in any position to comment the result of those arguments.
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Originally posted by TrashMan
I just said that on the net you can find lot's of conflicting information, and planet population is one of them. SO I wouldn't trust that info too much. It might be the truth, but then again, it might be not.
Feel free to find a reputable source that puts the number at over 7 Billion then.
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Also feel free to do your own plothole counting. You're the one that beleives it, not me. Usually you find evidence to prove yourself correct in an argument, not ask the otherside to do it for you.
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I have made my own plot holes countings...
If I posted the result here you wouldn't belive me anyway.
So there is no point in posting, but if you do count, you'll see that TNG has FAR less of such holes.
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Originally posted by TrashMan
I have made my own plot holes countings...
If I posted the result here you wouldn't belive me anyway.
:rolleyes:
Keep saying that to yourself.
Come back once you've grown up or actually decided to back something up.
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Count it yoursef and you'll see I'm right.
And seriously, anything anyone can find has to be verified.
There is no absolute proof in things like this.
On the other hand, you prove to me that DS9 is better than TNG.
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I like Star Trek...........too
and you guys have argument because of series geez
It's that needed? I mean everyone has his own opions
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In several cases, opinions differ. But the population of Earth does not depend on your personal opinion, it is a fact. Just to mention what was(or has been?) going on in this thread for a while.
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Tribbles were Puppets! Dammit! Puppets!
It's a TV series set in the future with an original cast that has one member dead of old age and another one with Alzheimers. Why don't people just enjoy the show and stop looking for faults, if someone did that to you whilst you were working, it would be classed as confidence assasination ;)
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Originally posted by Flipside
Tribbles were Puppets! Dammit! Puppets!
They were also the greatest enemy the Klingon Empire ever fought :D
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T: you should write your fanfic on how the Tribles were really a bio-egineered super weapon made by the Romulans to destroy the Klingon Empire!
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:wtf:
Riiiiight :p