Hard Light Productions Forums
Off-Topic Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: Rictor on July 02, 2004, 11:11:59 pm
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Two birds with one stone, so here goes. First the funny one.
This in an official recruitment video for the Japanese Navy. Its actually on their official website. But they seem to be a few years behind, the Village People haven't been popular for decades:
Video here: http://www.jda.go.jp/JMSDF/event/cm_p/index.html
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And next, we have a report published that outlines John Kerry's polcity towards Israel. The report, issued by Kerry's campaign, can be found here (http://electronicintifada.net/v2/article2864.shtml)
Some choice quotes:
John Kerry understands that America must guarantee Israel's military superiority.
It comes from a personal belief that Israel's cause must be America's cause.
John Kerry understands that anti-Semitism masked in anti-Israel rhetoric is a dangerous trend threatening both Israel and Jewish communities around the world.
The security fence is a legitimate act of self defense erected in response to the wave of terror attacks against Israeli citizens. He believes the security fence is not a matter for the International Court of Justice.
He recognizes the UN must establish more credibility on Arab-Israeli matters and would never hesitate to wield a US veto on the Security Council in the face of anti-Israel/anti-Zionist resolutions.
John Kerry has always fought against anti-Semitism and as president, he will take governments around the world to task for failing to address this escalating threat.
So, more of the same, despite him being a Democrat. The first and last quotes are particularly troubling. The first for obvious reasons, and the last becuase it shows that he is more than willing to advance America's self-appointed job as the world's police, and this time he's going after an idea.
Senator Kerry, shall be bomb every last ****ing country that does not respond favourably to Israel's illegal occupation and oppression? Boy howdy, I think we shall.
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So basically, Kerry might be as bad as Bush? Is that what you're saying?
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IMHO, worse...
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yeah but your a right wing fundy, you would think he's worse than Bush.
Kerry is just recogniseing the US population's general like of Israel.
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What this means is he's going to keep doing what the US has been doing.
Continue to give weapons, money, etc. to Israel. Tell everyone to play nice, and then veto or turn a blind eye to all actions trying to investigate into Israeli human rights abuses/warcrimes.
At the same time he's going to pay lip service to the peace process. That's part of the telling everyone to play nice bit.
Edit- At least now you can't say that he doesn't have any opinions :p
John Kerry: Return to the status quo!
The Japanese video is great, we need some Seaman Ships dammit!
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Son in other words they're both ****s. Got it.
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What bothers me is that, in their hatred of Bush, "the world" and also the America left is completely willing to ignore this, and many, many other unsavoury facts regarding Kerry, and elect the bastard anyway. If it was one or two things, I could understand, but I'm seeing more and more that Kerry is almost exactly parallell to Bush on most issues, well foreign issues anyway.
Bob: given that 99% of the American people have never actually set foot in Israel, where do you think those pro-Israeli, anti-Palestinian sentiments are coming from? Could it possibly be the media and their utterly biased coverage of the situation? ...yeah, damn that liberal media.
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The thing is that someone has to win the elction Rictor. Kerry is no better than Bush, just as the Labour were no better than Conservatives. The rot is set in completely now.
As for this 'World full of anti-semitism', you know, we have Jewish kids working alongside Muslim kids where I work, I travel once a week into Stamford Hill, a very Jewish area that is literally 10 minutes down the Road from Stoke Newington Mosque, and apart from extremely rare cases, usually involving ignorant teenagers, the two societies tend to leave each other alone. I have seen no evidence of anti-semitism in the UK whatsoever so what the hell is Kerry talking about?
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Keep in mind, in the world or Bush, Blair and Sharon, an opposition of any sort to Israeli policies makes you an anti-Semite. Opposition to Zionism makes you and anti-Semite. Opposition to their dominance over Palestinians makes you an anti-Semite. Balanced media coverage makes you an anti-Semite. Any belief, other than "Israel good, Palestinians bad" makes a terrorist appeaser and a reincartnation of Hitler. Aside from a few MIddle-Eastern countries, I don't think anti-Semetism exists in any meaningful measure anymore.
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I know, it's like saying that any white person who doesn't agree with Colin Powell's opinions must therefore be racist :(
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Originally posted by Rictor
Aside from a few MIddle-Eastern countries, I don't think anti-Semetism exists in any meaningful measure anymore.
I think it still exists, just not in the same form we've grown used to perceiving. As always, it's more difficult when it's in your face - sadly I think it persists just as much as before, just more transparently.
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Well, I think it's more along the lines of 'I don't agree with Israel's actions' rather than 'I don't agree with Israel's religion.'
That was one of the good things about my RE teacher, he taught us the basic tenets of Christianity, Islam, Sikh, and (because he was Welsh) Rugby :)
I don't see much evidence at all of it here, though admittedly, I can't speak for other countries. But I think most peoples view of Israel is what they see of it, just like any other country, possibly we are getting an anti-semetic view of Israel, but I think there is no way of reporting the Helicopter attack or the flattening of civilian houses that wouldn't make most people think :wtf:
Israel are far closer to the problem than I, that I can respect, but killing and bombing Palestinians, in my opinion, does no more to forward the cause of Judism than suicide bombers do for forwarding the cause of Islam :( (Or Bush saying God told him to bomb Iraq does for Christianity) Neither of these things have anything to do with the religions, but the instigators often hide behind the religion to avoid having to say they are murderers :(
It's that which concerns me, not the religion itself, but because crossing the religious line is one of the 'great taboos' people use it like a Theocratical shield :(
Religion can be a great thing, it's people that screw it over :(
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Originally posted by Setekh
I think it still exists, just not in the same form we've grown used to perceiving. As always, it's more difficult when it's in your face - sadly I think it persists just as much as before, just more transparently.
There will always be people who hate other people simply because they're different, likewise there will always be people who will use that hatred to deflect critisism of their actions. Anti-Semitism against judaism is nowhere near the level it was pre-ww2, when jews were slaughter regularly by european christians. Anti-Semitism against arabs though is a much more commonplace since sept 11th, as has been shown repeatedly on these boards.
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Setekh: I mean on a national level. Before WW2, it was actually most of Europe that despised Jews. For example in Canada (yes, I realize Canada is not Europe), boatloads of Jewish refugees were turned back and sent into amost certain death. Even AFTER the war, Canadians still said they would prefer to have a German emigrate to Canada rather than a Jew. Our PM at the time was giving the Hitler salute at the '38 Olypmics, well after Hitler's persecution of Jews became apparent.
In that regard, anti-Semetism in anywhere but the Middle-East is almost non existant. Sure, there are groups like the Aryan Brotherhood and so forth, but they're small, fringe groups. They'll never get the support of a large number of people, and will never, ever get elected into office. If you did a poll, I would venture to guess than 99.5% of people will say they have nothing at all against Jews.
I just think thats its a smokescreen. Sharon is using the suffering of Jews 60 years ago, and more broadly their suffering throughout human history, to excuse actions which are plainly criminal. No other country has that advantage, they're all open to criticism. But anyone who criticizes Israel for things which it would be quite normal to expect criticism for, were they any other country, get labbeled an anti-Semite.
Flipside: nah, Powell is OK with white people. Its black people who are criticising him, for being what they percieve to be an Uncle Tom figure.
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Originally posted by Rictor
Two birds with one stone, so here goes. First the funny one.
This in an official recruitment video for the Japanese Navy. Its actually on their official website. But they seem to be a few years behind, the Village People haven't been popular for decades:
Video here: http://www.jda.go.jp/JMSDF/event/cm_p/index.html
-------------------------------------------------------
And next, we have a report published that outlines John Kerry's polcity towards Israel. The report, issued by Kerry's campaign, can be found here (http://electronicintifada.net/v2/article2864.shtml)
Some choice quotes:
So, more of the same, despite him being a Democrat. The first and last quotes are particularly troubling. The first for obvious reasons, and the last becuase it shows that he is more than willing to advance America's self-appointed job as the world's police, and this time he's going after an idea.
Senator Kerry, shall be bomb every last ****ing country that does not respond favourably to Israel's illegal occupation and oppression? Boy howdy, I think we shall.
He is Illuminati, Democrat or Republican means nothing. He is doing what he beleives his anti-christ is telling him to do, and i doubt anyone will stop him. Crazy religious factions.....
Doesnt matter who you "vote" in, it always ends up bein an illuminati in Office. Kerry is going to carry Bushes traditions, and if he doesnt get in then bush will continue on his warpath but with more a vengeance before as he will think he is being approved for the past four years if re-elected.
My opinion is the US leadership is FUBARED and no one can fix it any longer as its been like this since after JFK. Since then its been nothing but Illuminati members as president. kinda ironic isnt it? Nah, it was set up that way by them. Its just too bad the US population is blind to all this.
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Originally posted by Rictor
Keep in mind, in the world or Bush, Blair and Sharon, an opposition of any sort to Israeli policies makes you an anti-Semite. Opposition to Zionism makes you and anti-Semite. Opposition to their dominance over Palestinians makes you an anti-Semite. Balanced media coverage makes you an anti-Semite. Any belief, other than "Israel good, Palestinians bad" makes a terrorist appeaser and a reincartnation of Hitler. Aside from a few MIddle-Eastern countries, I don't think anti-Semetism exists in any meaningful measure anymore.
Bull****. I'm all for balanced media and knowing exactly what Israel is up to in the West Bank and Gaza. But, then, I guess that would make me one of those self-hating Jews, wouldn't I? ;)
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Lonestar: I think you mean the Skull and Bones. Unlike the Illuminati, their existense in not in dispute. Every US President for over 50 years has been A Bonesman, and also most have been members of the Trilateral Commision which is also a inreal organization.
Corasair: I'm with ya buddy. I'm going to shave of my Jewfro in protest. Now if only I could get at other thing back, my renunciation would be complete.
...nah, just kidding. I don't have a Jewfro, and I am pleased to say that thanks to my parents being pretty secular, I am intact.
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You know, I think the US govt system could learn from the UK. In Scotland, we have numerous political parties with substantial relative control of the Scottish Parliament. In the UK parliament, the Lib Dems, Greens, UKIP, and even BNP bring a very representative and at least a starting point for third options instead of Labour or Conservative.
I'm not saying our system is working right now, but the potential is there and it would be very helpful for the US situation.
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It's the funding thing that kills it though, as mentioned somewhere else here, American elections work in such a way that only those with massive reserves of money can realistically compete. Anyone with that much money usually has either dodgy friends or even dodgier debtors :(
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Meh. Kerry Sucks. Bush Sucks. End of Story. I'll waste my vote on Nader, just for the hell of it. He's a shmuck too, but so far I know too little about him to hate him.
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Meh, lucky I can't vote yet.
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Vote for the Reverand Al!
Legalized Crack!
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w00t w00t
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You know, if everyone wasted their votes on Nader, it wouldn't be wasted ;) But no, Nader himself has been a part of the political machine for too long as well, and isn't 100% Kosher either. He may be a good start, but he will never be seriously considered, even the other parties consider him a joke :( Beside, I seriously doubt he's up to the job.
It seems to me that the American election is going to be a 'Logical Donkey' syndrome (ie, if you put a perfectly logical donkey exactly the same distance from two troughs of food, it would starve to death). I suppose if Nader got a respectable vote, it might at least shake things up at the Whitehouse.
We have a duty to do the same at our own elections, it would be nice to see the Liberal Party being taken seriously again, it might shake the other two main parties up.
Problem is, I can see large gains for the BNP, there's been a lot of anti-BNP work by the government, which, in it's usual efficient fashion, has only served to spread word of the party. :(
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I wouldn't vote for Nadar. Besides being green... his face is worse than Kerry's.
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He's the Hulk? Cool! Vote for him! ;)
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Flipside, I think you underestimate Nader a bit, that or you're too jaded which is understandable. From what I know, if by some miracle, Nader was elected President tommorow, there would significant changes for the better, way beyond what the Democrats have on their agenda. The trouble is, the Left is pissed off because they think that Nader put Bush into the White House in 2000, despite the fact that Bush, well, stole the election. I don't think its a case of Logical Donkey, but more of a case of isolation which leads to conservativism. Becuase of their isolation from the realities of the world, most Americans (and Canadians, Western Europeans etc) think that things are fine as is, and require only minor adjustments here and there, which is why the vote for the conservative Democratic candidiate. Far too few people realize just hot corrupt and unjust the surrent system of American power is, because certain people are working very, very hard to keep it way.
Yeah, he has been in politics for a long time, but I don't think that an automatic disqualifier or even a detrement. He's well known, which is good, and his stance is pretty clear to everyone. Which, one could argue, is working to his disadvatange, since he can sit on the fence and cater to everyone, like Kerry. While he has lost popularity with the left, and seems likely to continue doing so, he has actually gained significant respect from the right. And by that, I don't mean what is these days being passed of a conservativism, I mean the real right; small government, non-interventionist foreign policy etc. I actually read an interview with Nader in...*drumroll*...The American Conservative, Pat Buchanan's magazine.
I dunno, maybe I just being idealistic, but it seems to me that Ralph is the best chance for some real change being implemented in America, though needless to say, its a hell of a longshot.
edit: oh and, he's of Arab decent, but I don't think he's particularly religious, so not much chance of catering to the Muslim crowd. And yes, I realize that I implied that most Muslim's are Arabs, but AFAIK in America that is the case.