Hard Light Productions Forums
Off-Topic Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: Ace on July 03, 2004, 10:29:11 pm
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To start it off:
(http://photojournal.jpl.nasa.gov/jpeg/PIA06407.jpg)
First real image showing off the surface. Post more pics here as they come folks.
Green is ice, yellow hydrocarbons, white areas are methane clouds.
(http://photojournal.jpl.nasa.gov/figures/PIA06405_fig1.jpg)
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I maintain a sense of childlike awe / glee / wonder
And here's the NASA webpage for Cassini, BTW - http://saturn.jpl.nasa.gov/home/index.cfm
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I demand better resolution images.!
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you know it's gona be funny if that lander they've got touches down on there and finds huge forests of bizar life forms that live in an ecology based not on water but liquid methane.
does anyone here know enough about chemistry to tell me the feasabilities of this? does liquid methane alow chemical reactions to ocur redaly within it like water does?
that would be almost as cool as finding life flying around in the atmosphere of one of the gas giants.
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maybe im not thinking hard enough, but what exactly is this thread about?
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Originally posted by Jetmech Jr.
maybe im not thinking hard enough, but what exactly is this thread about?
Titan.
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Titan, a moon of Saturn that may or may not have organic material on it (or is it life?)
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nm
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Originally posted by Bobboau
does anyone here know enough about chemistry to tell me the feasabilities of this? does liquid methane alow chemical reactions to ocur redaly within it like water does?
I wouldn't say it's impossible but it's certainly harder for life to evolve in liquid methane since only hydrocarbons and other non-polar chemicals will dissolve in it.
Water has much nicer properties for life to evolve in it since metal compounds can dissolve in it so it's easier for complex chemistry to occur in it.
The other problem is the speed of reactions. Cooling something slows down the reaction rate (which is why you put food in the fridge to stop it going bad). Reactions in liquid methane are going to be very slow.
That said 30 years ago no one would have predicted that life could exist in the hydrothermal vents at the bottom of the sea cause there is no sunlight there and they were too hot for the liquid crystals that form the cell walls to work. Turned out they were completely wrong. :)
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Apparently, living organisms survivein those vents which are hot enough to melt the probes sent down to examine them.
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They have also recently found bacteria that thrives at the radioactive core of nuclear reactors as well as other types that live in molten magma.
We may not be talking advanced civilizations or even basic animals but I suspect there may be more life in our solar system than we know about yet. Titan is a prime candidate much like Europa in terms of speculation.
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[Readies Self for Warhead Drop]
God intended the Earth to be the sole planet for life (Read: Genesis 1), for He created it first before the Sun, the Moon, and the Stars. Don't you see? All other astronomical objects are merely sycophants of Earth.
God be praised! :nervous:
[Readies Self for Public Lynching]
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No need to be scared Rampage, no-one is about to attack your religious believes unless you ask for it. Mind, posting this stuff in a thread about life on Titan isn't the smartest act ever, and if you did this IRL it would be asking for natural selection, err, devine intervention :p .
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I'll just confine it to asking you if you'll therefore renounce your faith if they do find life on Titan?
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Suppose for the sake of discussion that we find some methane sucking worm-like bacteria on Titan. Whopdedo. Its not intelligent, it doesnt have Tachyon beam weaponry or hovercraft or warp speed. It cant melt your brain, posses your body or speak through telepathy. It doesnt have any cities of glory, motherships, city destroyers or vast space stations. They probably come is peace and are partial to human excrement. Other than that, to me its the same old **** of finding new bacteria on the bottom of the ocean, just different backdrop. :ha:
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Well, we would have more of a chance of finding intelligent life somewhere else if live existed at all.
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Originally posted by Angel Warlord
Suppose for the sake of discussion that we find some methane sucking worm-like bacteria on Titan. Whopdedo. Its not intelligent, it doesnt have Tachyon beam weaponry or hovercraft or warp speed. It cant melt your brain, posses your body or speak through telepathy. It doesnt have any cities of glory, motherships, city destroyers or vast space stations. They probably come is peace and are partial to human excrement. Other than that, to me its the same old **** of finding new bacteria on the bottom of the ocean, just different backdrop. :ha:
Of course, that depends on your definition of intelligence. And seeing as there's not a single unified definition of what intelligence actually is, it'd be a bit unfair to judge the intelligence of a completely alien lifeform in a new environment (the only way we can judge other animals is because we share the same environment and perceptions as them, and thus can anlayse their actions from a point which is relatively close to their 'mindset').
Life is, actually, incredibly unlikely - the odds on life occuring on a planet are gigantic. Fortunately, the universe is somewhat larger than gigantic, so it's likely millions of lifeforms exist.
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Originally posted by Rampage
[Readies Self for Warhead Drop]
God intended the Earth to be the sole planet for life (Read: Genesis 1), for He created it first before the Sun, the Moon, and the Stars. Don't you see? All other astronomical objects are merely sycophants of Earth.
God be praised! :nervous:
[Readies Self for Public Lynching]
People used to think the Earth was flat, the centre of the universe and everything revolved around it too.
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(http://upload.illuminise.org/files/cfcd208495d565ef66e7dff9f98764da.jpg)
Imperator-class Titan. A true classic, isn't it?:cool:
:D
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whatever happened to the probe did it survive goin through saturns' ring? or am i speaking of a different probe?
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Originally posted by Angel Warlord
Suppose for the sake of discussion that we find some methane sucking worm-like bacteria on Titan. Whopdedo. Its not intelligent, it doesnt have Tachyon beam weaponry or hovercraft or warp speed. It cant melt your brain, posses your body or speak through telepathy. It doesnt have any cities of glory, motherships, city destroyers or vast space stations. They probably come is peace and are partial to human excrement. Other than that, to me its the same old **** of finding new bacteria on the bottom of the ocean, just different backdrop. :ha:
Nope. It's not the same. The point is that if life can evolve independantly twice in the same solar system then there is very little chance of it only existing in the Sol system.
The question would no longer be "Do Aliens Exist?" it would now be "Where Are They?"
All of a sudden all the planets around other star systems would suddenly have a very good chance of having more interesting aliens.
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i kinda hope there's life on europa...i'm a bit tired of the human race...it''s gotten old and i'd like to see somthing new...till that gets old, too....
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Originally posted by karajorma
Nope. It's not the same. The point is that if life can evolve independantly twice in the same solar system then there is very little chance of it only existing in the Sol system.
The question would no longer be "Do Aliens Exist?" it would now be "Where Are They?"
All of a sudden all the planets around other star systems would suddenly have a very good chance of having more interesting aliens.
We know one limiting factor is from Gamma Ray Bursts.
While we know there are early stars with enough metal content to form planets (plus we've detected some *very old* planets) it's very possible that most early life kept on being sterilized by GRBs.
GRBs in the present time are much more rare, so there's a good chance we're in the first generation of planets with the capacity to have more complex life.
Originally posted by President Clarke's sycophant
[Readies Self for Warhead Drop]
God intended the Earth to be the sole planet for life (Read: Genesis 1), for He created it first before the Sun, the Moon, and the Stars. Don't you see? All other astronomical objects are merely sycophants of Earth.
God be praised!
[Readies Self for Public Lynching]
So I guess you're going to join the Earth-first movement the second that first contact is made? Afterall all aliens are the spawn of the devil! It couldn't be possible that perhaps any sort of supreme being might decide on making a whole universe full of intelligent critters intended to get along with one another.
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Destroy the Xenophobes!!!
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Originally posted by Ace
We know one limiting factor is from Gamma Ray Bursts.
While we know there are early stars with enough metal content to form planets (plus we've detected some *very old* planets) it's very possible that most early life kept on being sterilized by GRBs.
GRBs in the present time are much more rare, so there's a good chance we're in the first generation of planets with the capacity to have more complex life.
Well it's fairly obvious that the population I type stars won't have any life since all their planets will have to work with is hydrogen and traces of helium and other simple elements :)
As for GRB I've heard about the idea of them causing extinctions before but GRBs aren't localised effects. They'd wipe out life in a fairly large chunk of the galaxy. All the local stars have had just as long to recover from the last GRB in this area as we have. If life has managed to evolve twice in this solar system since then there is a good chance that it can do the same in other nearby systems.
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Actually my comment about older stars and planets relates to the fact that they've found first generation stars with heavy elements as well as planets that date from that period in globular clusters. It was a very unexpected find. I think one of the current theories on this is that the elements in these stars were from early GRBs in the stellar nurseries. (heavy elements are produced in the hypernovae)
Yes, GRBs are very large events. That means that most likely all life in the galaxy and possibly the universe due to how widespread GRBs were would be in a state similar to ours.
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Clearest view (for now) of Titan's south pole region, the white speckles are clouds.
(http://photojournal.jpl.nasa.gov/jpeg/PIA06109.jpg)
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Here's a nice clear shot of the moon. :D
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Wow sandwich, if you squint at it, its almost got some sort of contorted frowning face type thing.
Intellegence indeed.
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Originally posted by Sandwich
Here's a nice clear shot of the moon. :D
Lunarcell? Bah! Begone vile one! ;)
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Originally posted by Ace
Lunarcell? Bah! Begone vile one! ;)
Yeah, as I was going to say. :)
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As the probe nears Titan for it's unprecidented close ups and landing a flash is seen from the surface and a rock slams into the probe utterly destroying it!
In the language of the methane breathing vasudans er, I mean Titans:
"Dad? Why did we had to destroy that probe with the Mass Driver?"
"Well son the Humans are a primitive and Pathetic race. If they knew there was other life in the universe we would have all sorts of problems."
"Like what?"
"Well first of all they would claim to come in friendship, but quickly try to enforce their religious views and laws upon us. Next would come the economic explitation and eventual contamination as they would try to build a dozen starbucks in every population center!"
"Oh... I understand now... F - That!"
"F - That indeed , son. Now don't let your mother hear you talking like that or she'll was your mouth out with a live chimera!"
:lol:
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Originally posted by Star Dragon
...as they would try to build a dozen starbucks in every population center!"
:lol:
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Originally posted by Ace
Lunarcell? Bah! Begone vile one! ;)
lol - I quite agree, but I wasn't about to spend more than 3 minutes making that. At least I used real clouds. :p