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General FreeSpace => FreeSpace Discussion => Topic started by: Kie99 on July 11, 2004, 11:56:47 am

Title: Helios Vs. Harbinger
Post by: Kie99 on July 11, 2004, 11:56:47 am
In FS1 the Harbinger is a pretty powerful weapon, but it can't fry a bomber with the blast, but in FS2 the Unknown MegaBomb is described as "The Harbinger but Shivan," but when i used unknown megabomb in High Noon the blast fried my Bahka, obviously much more powerful than a Helios, so what is more powerful, Helios or Harbinger???
Title: Helios Vs. Harbinger
Post by: Taristin on July 11, 2004, 12:11:56 pm
Helios.  The shockwave thingy is just... err... tabling...
Title: Helios Vs. Harbinger
Post by: vyper on July 11, 2004, 12:12:20 pm
fs2 does tend to make things bigger, not always better (ahem, colossus), but certainly bigger.
Title: Helios Vs. Harbinger
Post by: Knight Templar on July 11, 2004, 11:12:11 pm
Uh.. the Helios is specifically stated as being stronger. The Harbinger's a nuke IIRC. The Helios is an anti-matter bomb.
Title: Helios Vs. Harbinger
Post by: IceFire on July 11, 2004, 11:32:23 pm
Helios is more poweful.

Unknown Mega Bomb has a different shield modifier.  Its 0.1 instead of 0.01 on the Harbinger.  Makes a big difference with that amount of firepower going off.  Also the Shivan one has more damage points taken off as I recall.
Title: Helios Vs. Harbinger
Post by: Night Hammer on July 13, 2004, 09:36:01 am
Can 2 Harbingers take out a Fenris? cuz I know for a fact that two Helios can
Title: Helios Vs. Harbinger
Post by: TopAce on July 13, 2004, 09:43:23 am
I would prefer the Helios. I think it is obvious.
Title: Helios Vs. Harbinger
Post by: Hippo on July 14, 2004, 02:00:18 pm
So, who voted Harbinger with me? I don't know why, but somehow I like it a lot more the the Helios... :nervous:
Title: Helios Vs. Harbinger
Post by: Mongoose on July 14, 2004, 02:31:51 pm
I voted for Harbinger as well.  I always liked using it better than the Helios, mostly because of the Helios's ridiculously long lock times.  Speaking of that, why does a bomb's loading time have to be any slower than a missile's?  There's no fundamental difference in the targeting system, is there?  Anyway, while the Helios may be physically more powerful, the Harbinger has that old-school appeal.  After all, it killed the Lucifer :).
Title: Helios Vs. Harbinger
Post by: TopAce on July 14, 2004, 05:08:57 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Mongoose
I voted for Harbinger as well.  I always liked using it better than the Helios, mostly because of the Helios's ridiculously long lock times.  Speaking of that, why does a bomb's loading time have to be any slower than a missile's?  There's no fundamental difference in the targeting system, is there?  Anyway, while the Helios may be physically more powerful, the Harbinger has that old-school appeal.  After all, it killed the Lucifer :).


Gameplay balance, gameplay balance ....
Title: Helios Vs. Harbinger
Post by: aldo_14 on July 14, 2004, 05:16:26 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Mongoose
I voted for Harbinger as well.  I always liked using it better than the Helios, mostly because of the Helios's ridiculously long lock times.  Speaking of that, why does a bomb's loading time have to be any slower than a missile's?  There's no fundamental difference in the targeting system, is there?  Anyway, while the Helios may be physically more powerful, the Harbinger has that old-school appeal.  After all, it killed the Lucifer :).


Well, the GTVA uses a mark 2 HBRS (Hamster based re-loading system) in missile bays.  Unfortunately, hamsters struggle under heav weights, so it takes them longer to heave up the Helios into place.
Title: Helios Vs. Harbinger
Post by: Hippo on July 14, 2004, 06:11:30 pm
I guess its because the Harb seemed to hit harder when it went off... Like when it hit, it would blow out everything nearby on the target ship, subsystems, turrets, etc. The Helios always seemed to simply hit and do damage, and never seemed defastating...
Title: Helios Vs. Harbinger
Post by: Gloriano on July 15, 2004, 05:40:47 am
Well I like Harbinger and Helios
of course Helios is stronger but there something about Harp
Title: Helios Vs. Harbinger
Post by: Setekh on July 15, 2004, 05:41:35 am
Yeah, I liked that about the Harbinger too. Helios for the business end of things, Harbinger to demoralise the enemy. :drevil:
Title: Helios Vs. Harbinger
Post by: TopAce on July 15, 2004, 06:58:43 am
The status of the Poll is now 21:3, so it means that there is one vote for the Harbringer while 7 votes arrive to the Helios. I would be able to predict what the final results will be. :D
Title: Helios Vs. Harbinger
Post by: Hippo on July 15, 2004, 07:34:14 am
Ah, but it is now 21:4... So, the Harbinger votes are growing at a much steadier pace...
Title: Helios Vs. Harbinger
Post by: Andreas on July 15, 2004, 03:54:37 pm
The good old Harbringer, for sentimental reasons. And it kicks ass. :D
Title: Helios Vs. Harbinger
Post by: Axel Wers on July 18, 2004, 09:42:49 am
Here is table for compare of a bombs


Harbinger

$Damage:   3200
$Blast Force:   2000.0
$Inner Radius:   100.0
$Outer Radius:   250.0
$Shockwave Speed:   75
$Armor Factor:   1.0
$Shield Factor:   0.01
$Subsystem Factor:   16.0
$Lifetime:   30.0


Unknown Mega Bomb

$Damage:   3200
$Blast Force:   2000.0
$Inner Radius:   100.0
$Outer Radius:   450.0
$Shockwave Speed:   75
$Armor Factor:   1.0
$Shield Factor:   0.0
$Subsystem Factor:   1.0
$Lifetime:   30.0


Helios

$Damage:   6800
$Blast Force:   1000.0
$Inner Radius:   100.0
$Outer Radius:   270.0
$Shockwave Speed:   75
$Armor Factor:   1.0
$Shield Factor:   0.02
$Subsystem Factor:   0.85
$Lifetime:   30.0


Helios is best bomb, but Harbinger most damage subsystems.
Unknown Mega Bomb has biggest shockwave, but without damage ($Shield Factor: 0.0).
Title: Helios Vs. Harbinger
Post by: TopAce on July 18, 2004, 09:46:06 am
The Helios is twice as powerful.
Title: Helios Vs. Harbinger
Post by: aldo_14 on July 18, 2004, 10:58:14 am
Helios.  Cos it hurt a Sathanas.
Title: Helios Vs. Harbinger
Post by: Jetmech Jr. on July 18, 2004, 11:48:40 am
bah, helios owns the harbinger in every single way :D
Title: Helios Vs. Harbinger
Post by: Eishtmo on July 18, 2004, 12:16:11 pm
The Helios is more powerful, and does kick the Harbinger's ass in many catagories, except one:

The name.  Helios isn't as scary as cool as Harbinger.  Harbinger wins.
Title: Helios Vs. Harbinger
Post by: Hippo on July 18, 2004, 01:16:33 pm
Exactly
Title: Helios Vs. Harbinger
Post by: Nuclear1 on July 19, 2004, 07:41:40 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Hippo
So, who voted Harbinger with me? I don't know why, but somehow I like it a lot more the the Helios... :nervous:


Said the man making AHTW :p

Seriously though, Harbinger. It brings back some memories[/oldfart].
Title: Helios Vs. Harbinger
Post by: Rampage on July 19, 2004, 07:44:55 pm
Let's put it this way: They're all meant to be megabombs.  It's just the Helios is 30-some years later.
Title: Helios Vs. Harbinger
Post by: .::Tin Can::. on July 19, 2004, 07:47:42 pm
The Harbringiner just didnt FEEL like it had much "Umph" to it, but when the Helios went off it had lots of "YES" to it... ;7
Title: Helios Vs. Harbinger
Post by: Hippo on July 19, 2004, 08:00:34 pm
nuclear1: of course :p

TinCan: I'd actually say it was the other way around... Only because, when a Harb hit, it'd truly cripple the ship with the subsystem damage, whereas the Helios is simply Hull damage...
Title: Helios Vs. Harbinger
Post by: .::Tin Can::. on July 19, 2004, 08:24:34 pm
Gah, I just didnt FEEL the power of the Hardbringer when I unloaded it.
Title: Helios Vs. Harbinger
Post by: TopAce on July 20, 2004, 05:16:29 am
Quote
Originally posted by .::Tin Can::.
Gah, I just didnt FEEL the power of the Hardbringer when I unloaded it.


But that was the strongest weapon in FS1. How is that you did not FEEL its power? It rocked in the era of FS1.
Title: Helios Vs. Harbinger
Post by: SuperCoolAl on July 20, 2004, 02:21:21 pm
I voted Harbinger, but I like the Helios model better- that thing looks like it means BUSINESS

EDIT- Ooops sorry double-post- i hit back to change the msg
Title: Helios Vs. Harbinger
Post by: SuperCoolAl on July 20, 2004, 02:24:39 pm
I voted Harbinger, but I like the Helios model better- that thing looks like it means BUSINESS

so in conclusion

Harbinger is       =====D
Helios is        ==============D

But I like Harbinger best cos it could actually do damage to the Lucifer, whereas the Helios only does <1% to the Sath
Title: Helios Vs. Harbinger
Post by: Kosh on July 21, 2004, 09:02:35 am
A Helios could do more damage to the Lucifer.....
Title: Helios Vs. Harbinger
Post by: FireCrack on July 24, 2004, 08:29:06 pm
I dont get it, the helios is an antimatter bomb that mnakes it more powerfull then the harbinger, but the tsunami is also antimatter and it's weaker... :(
Title: Helios Vs. Harbinger
Post by: Liberator on July 24, 2004, 10:39:47 pm
It's the amount of AP(AM) in the warhead.  The Tsunami was a first generation AP bomb and thus had a much smaller warhead due to AP production limitation.  The Helios doesn't suffer from those limitations, although I remember seeing somewhere that it was in limited distribution to wings tasked with attacking hardened targets or somesuch.
Title: Helios Vs. Harbinger
Post by: DragonClaw on July 24, 2004, 11:07:14 pm
I think Tin Can suffers from thought dyslexia. :drevil:

Harbinger, simply because more things go boom when it hits. Eye candy :)
Title: Helios Vs. Harbinger
Post by: FireCrack on July 25, 2004, 03:11:44 am
Would be funny (though unbalancing) if you could hit somthing with a harbinger and the radiation would kill all the crew, watch it crash into the nearest sathanas :D
Title: Helios Vs. Harbinger
Post by: Forinec on July 25, 2004, 04:16:48 pm
Harbinger, because it's more fun to use. ;)
Title: Helios Vs. Harbinger
Post by: jdjtcagle on July 25, 2004, 04:57:04 pm
Basically, if the harbringer can penetrate hull, it's over for that ship
Title: Helios Vs. Harbinger
Post by: TopAce on July 26, 2004, 03:54:50 am
Even the ML-16 can penetrate the hull, just not powerfully and it doesn't make a big hole. :)
Title: Helios Vs. Harbinger
Post by: Kie99 on July 27, 2004, 01:15:36 pm
if the ML-16 penetrated the hull then all the crew near the hole would be seen coming out
Funny :D but not practical :(
Title: Helios Vs. Harbinger
Post by: Tiara on July 27, 2004, 01:20:32 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Mongoose
I voted for Harbinger as well.  I always liked using it better than the Helios, mostly because of the Helios's ridiculously long lock times.  Speaking of that, why does a bomb's loading time have to be any slower than a missile's?  There's no fundamental difference in the targeting system, is there?  Anyway, while the Helios may be physically more powerful, the Harbinger has that old-school appeal.  After all, it killed the Lucifer :).

Heh, shooting helios bombs as fast as harpoons? :p Now, that would be one nasty battle. ;7
Title: Helios Vs. Harbinger
Post by: Ford Prefect on July 27, 2004, 01:28:40 pm
I'm gonna have to go with the Helios. When that thing goes off, I can just hear it say "*****!"

What pisses me off about bombing is that the targeting computer absolutely insists on locking onto some turret on the very edge of the hull. What the hell?
Title: Helios Vs. Harbinger
Post by: TopAce on July 27, 2004, 01:34:27 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Ford Prefect
I'm gonna have to go with the Helios. When that thing goes off, I can just hear it say "*****!"
...


I added this to my quotes list. :yes: