Hard Light Productions Forums
Off-Topic Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: IceFire on July 11, 2004, 10:03:35 pm
-
Interesting article: http://www.pcworld.com/news/article/0,aid,116848,00.asp
They say that Mozilla Firefox and Netscape are gaining on Internet Explorer. Its a paltry 1% or so...but thats evidently a huge shift in comparison to whats gone on for the last few years. Thats good...if it goes a little further it'll give Microsoft a nice kick in the pants to get things going again. They can do some good if they are forced to innovate.
If you haven't switched...consider it. Firefox is working for me very nicely. Its not perfect, but nothing is...
-
well they don't have much any were else to go :)
-
Which is the one that's like IE with tabs?
-
I guess you mean Firefox, I use it exclusively. Never been a big fan of Netscape, probably because my only exposure to it was as a 3.0 version on a College comp. I only remember it being slow, clunky and being unable to do things with it that I could with IE 2 machines down the row.
-
Yeah sure, Firefox. Tabs look cool, though... despite whatever I told Thorn the other day.
-
DOWN WITH IE! STANDARDS-COMPLIANT BROWSERS FOR3V4R!@!!!@!@11
-
I wanted to like FireFox but I just find alt-tabbing between IE windows to be much more simple. That and I really don't have any issues with it... it works fine, fast and generally problem free for me.
-
But doesn't the tabbing save resources? THINK OF THE SYSTEM RESOURCES!!!1
-
Call me weird but I prefer seperated windows over tabs any day. :)
I still use Firefox though, there just is no better browser at the moment.
-
<- still using Opera 7.21 and happy with it.
And yes....tab browsing pwns joo
-
I like the tabs...having them there is a lot easier than alt-tabbing through ALL the system windows or searching for the right one on the taskbar.
-
Opera 7.23 here :)
-
Originally posted by Kalfireth
I wanted to like FireFox but I just find alt-tabbing between IE windows to be much more simple. That and I really don't have any issues with it... it works fine, fast and generally problem free for me.
Ctrl + tab to cycle tabs. ;)
At least in Moz. Not sure about Firefox.
-
Originally posted by Ryx
Ctrl + tab to cycle tabs. ;)
At least in Moz. Not sure about Firefox.
Same in FireFox :D
-
Tabs kick arse. In my humble opinion.
:)
-
Ctrl/tab works eh? Nice to know - maybe I'll take a second look.
-
Originally posted by Kalfireth
Ctrl/tab works eh? Nice to know - maybe I'll take a second look.
Ah... another potential follower! :D
-
Maybe ;) At the moment though I'm thinking about buying ObjectDock Plus which seems to be my every answer to a GUI in one handy little £20 application. Firefox can wait.
-
i really dont care ... as long as it works :)
-
You know, you can still open new windows in Firefox (well in v0.9 atleast) if you refuse to drop your alt-tabbing ways.
Use tabs and windows for teh ultimate internet experience!!!!1
-
Forum (favorites folder) -> right click -> open in tabs -> pwnz all
'nother way I do it.
Go to a forum -> ctrl+left click -> tabbed browsing -> pwnz more
-
hm. I have to click the third button on my mouse to get tabbed browsing with FF, otherwise it opens a new window...
But I prefer it to MS, which would die on me, or screw up 90% of my files somehow...
-
And you can select tables in Firefox. Excellent for ripping off other websites :D:p:drevil:
-
I never saw the reasoning behind downloading yet another browser to surf with when XP comes with its very own browser, which is stable.
I dont have to download anything extra
never need a plugin
never looking for a faq on how to turn something on or off
I simply hit the E and surf the net without a problem.
So again, why go to another browser and install it with a browser you already have, just to prefer the browser you installed over the default one?
Seems like a waste of time to me considering IE is supported, and the others are not as supported. Why waste your time and energy on something that doesnt work quite as well?
Sometimes i think people just want to be different just to be different, like they are cool or something.
Tried mozilla and tried netscape and other horrid browser, none of them were as easy to use, or as hassle free as IE was. So if it aint broke, why fix it?
-
"Make something so even a fool can use it, and only a fool will use it." ~ Unknown
-
IE is stable... to a point. Until the back button stops working, or programs automatically download and execute themselves, or IE starts reaming the net on it's own... or...
-
Originally posted by Lonestar
Seems like a waste of time to me considering IE is supported, and the others are not as supported. Why waste your time and energy on something that doesnt work quite as well?
Fine but if you accidently visit a dodgy website and suddenly find your computer has been exploited will you still feel the same?
Originally posted by Lonestar
Tried mozilla and tried netscape and other horrid browser, none of them were as easy to use, or as hassle free as IE was. So if it aint broke, why fix it?
I installed Firebird on my mums computer last week. I told her "Favourites is now called Bookmarks" and left her to it. Haven't heard a peep out of her yet about the difference.
If you're having trouble using Mozilla then there is something wrong with you.
-
Originally posted by Lonestar
...Sometimes i think people just want to be different just to be different, like they are cool or something....
I don't know about you or anyone else, but I'm a hacker (y'know, the old-fashioned kind of hacker). That means I like tinkering with my computer (or anything else really) to get it exactly how I want. So alternatives are worthwhile for people like us.
Also, you've got to understand that these people who come out with open source projects and the like are usually doing it for fun. They just want to have fun writing a really good, neat program. If others like the program too, even better. So you're missing the point really.
-
The reasons I dislike (such a politically-correct word... I'm aghast at using it!) IE is because it sucks. :p
- As a web developer / webmaster, you should dislike IE for some of the same reasons I do. It does not support standards at any level worth mentioning - unless you're comparing it against Lynx in the "PNG Render Quality" competition (hint: Lynx is a text-only browser). Specifically, CSS2 support does not exist, CSS1 (which it supposedly fully supports) is both incomplete and very buggy), PNG support does not support anything beyond what you could get out of plain GIF or JPG formats, and it STILL has that effing lack of TD font size inheritance and the damned misguided "Show the IMG ALT attribute value as a tooltip" feature, which has deceived webmasters the world over as to the real purposes for the ALT and TITLE attributes!
- For the end-user, IE is like locking your front door and placing the key on the floor right inside the pet door. With more holes than a donut factory, IE places its users in actual risk from the increasing dangers of virii, spyware, phishing scams, and more.
-
For me, the impression of Firefox vs IE I get is that of stability and reliability vs speed and flimsiness. Yes, IE loads things faster and usually runs faster, but it's the Big Target for security exploits and isn't standards-friendly, plus it has so many features it's hard to keep track of what's on and what's off. Don't even get me started on ActiveX, the one page-virus I've run into was an ActiveX virus - fortunately my AV prog caught it.
Yes, I think I just reworded Sandwich's post. :p
"Make something so even a fool can use it, and only a fool will use it." ~ Unknown
It's only too bad so many in the software business share this sentiment. :doubt:
And no, I'm not saying they make things too easy to use.
-
Originally posted by Kalfireth
I wanted to like FireFox but I just find alt-tabbing between IE windows to be much more simple. That and I really don't have any issues with it... it works fine, fast and generally problem free for me.
Why not use windows with Firefox? I never use tabs and alt-tabbing between Firefox windows works just fine.
-
Actually...I think Firefox is faster than IE as well.
The simple answer to why to switch is becuase of security. Hands down, IE is the worst possible security hazard on your computer. The big new attacks go after Microsoft server software and then attack IE users when they browse websites. Legit and big name websites have evidently been attacked by these exploits. Microsofts answer to that was to shut down some kind of database linking system. Apparently if you own software that utilizes that linking system you're screwed right now. IE is far too close to the OS for anyones liking...its a security hazard.
Secondly, Firefox works just as well as IE does and its just as easy to use. I find it faster, more streamlined, with less bugs, it reads HTML in a truer standard (as far as I know, full W3C compliance...IE is only halfway there)....the only thing is that it loads Java more slowly. Not a big loss there.
Oh and built in tabbed browsing, google search, and pop-up blocker. Its really great...stick with IE if you must but its a worthy change.
-
The icon for IE isn't even on my desktop or start menu anymore. If I wanted to use it, I'd have to use the Run command.
If I had my way I'd completely remove it, but then Windows would be virtually useless...
-
?
useless....?
-
Windows Explorer and Internet Explorer are one and the same. It's always running. If it isn't, then you can't browse files. All you would see is your desktop BG, no icons.
-
Hmmm... didn't know that
-
Yeah... try typing in url - http and all - into WINDOWS EXPLORER. You'll have Internet Exploder on a stick. ;)
And that's also probably one of the reasons IE runs relatively fast - it's always running.
-
It starts fast. Running fast is a completely different thing.
-
Originally posted by Thorn
It starts fast. Running fast is a completely different thing.
When I start up Firefox it takes a few secs to load (2 or 3 at most) but when it loads sites its faster then IE.
IE might start up faster (in less then a second for me) but sites are loaded much slower.
i agree :)
-
Originally posted by IceFire
google search
The google search is great and I knew you could add other search engines but it was only recently that I noticed it doesn't end at search engines :D
You can make it search any site that has a plugin so in addition to google searches I can search the IMDB or Dictionary.com without first having to load up the site and find their search option.
That alone makes it worth swapping from IE for me :D
-
Kara: It's actually extremely easy to add any site. Let's say you wanted to search the wikipedia.
1) Find a URL that the search term appears in. For wikipedia.org, you can get one by typing in a search term that nothing exists on...like "mymoney"
2) Bookmark that page in Bookmarks/quick searches
3) Edit that bookmark; replace the search term with %s
4) In the keyword field, type the keyword you want to use to search with it (like "wikpedia" would let you do a search with "wikipedia animals")
You're done. :D
-
Originally posted by karajorma
Dictionary.com without first having to load up the site and find their search option.
Really cool tip of the day: In Firefox (don't know about plain Mozilla) you can type "dict foo" in the URL bar and search dictionary.com for foo :D
-
My problem is - I did a comparison and FireFox had a bigger memory footprint on startup than IE did. My computer is generally stable but I'm all for keeping overheads at a low, and IE does and has done the job for me since version 6 came out.
-
Originally posted by Kamikaze
Really cool tip of the day: In Firefox (don't know about plain Mozilla) you can type "dict foo" in the URL bar and search dictionary.com for foo :D
Hmmm. Handy. Now i just need to think of a word i dont know the meaning of....
-
Cool
Intelligent
Handsome
Sexy
The list goes on :p
(Sorry. Just couldn't resist :D )
-
Originally posted by Kalfireth
My problem is - I did a comparison and FireFox had a bigger memory footprint on startup than IE did. My computer is generally stable but I'm all for keeping overheads at a low, and IE does and has done the job for me since version 6 came out.
Actually, IE is larger. You forgot to count Explorer with IE.
Right now Firefox is using about 20 megs. IE is using 18, and Explorer is using 25. And I have 3 tabs open in Firefox.
-
[color=66ff00]I'm now running Firefox on Gentoo (linux) and it's pretty fast and pretty stable. The adblock extension alone is worth converting, you can literally block almost any advert the web can throw at you, makes loading pages faster.
The other program I've come to love in the last few days is Gaim. Tabbed chat client that supports more networks than you can throw a fish at.
Tabs rock.
[/color]
-
I never use IE except when some program opens it (like MSN checking Hotmail). Opera's slight instability is my only chagrin with using it.
-
If you use Trillian to open your MSN email it will use the default browser. Less secuity holes there too.
Reasons not to use MS apps period.
-
Originally posted by Thorn
Actually, IE is larger. You forgot to count Explorer with IE.
Right now Firefox is using about 20 megs. IE is using 18, and Explorer is using 25. And I have 3 tabs open in Firefox.
Yes but the last time I checked, Explorer was part of the windows Shell - turn that off an I lose my task bar, start menu etc. Since FireFox doesn't come with its own shell replacement - it's a larger overall memory footprint than Internet Explorer.
Or am I missing something..
-
Originally posted by Kalfireth
it's a larger overall memory footprint than Internet Explorer.
Is it really using that much more memory? I doubt a few extra MB is going to be taxing your system that much? How much memory do you have?
-
Originally posted by beatspete
Is it really using that much more memory? I doubt a few extra MB is going to be taxing your system that much? How much memory do you have?
Enough, but I don’t like to use anything that takes up to much space – when something else will do the job I need just fine anyway.
Besides, sometimes I multi-task and if I have several FireFox windows open taking up memory that slows things down. I’m already having problems with PhotoShop, which – for reasons known to itself – is taking up around 80+ MB of memory with even small files loaded. I plan to reinstall that later but it’s not exactly helpful.
-
Mmmm memory footprint is about the same. Two windows open for IE and Firefox gets me 14 on IE and 16 on Firefox. Not bad considering that part of IE's memory usage is included in Explorer.exe.
I'm all for keeping memory footprints low myself...but this isn't much different. Kind of a drop in the bucket really.
-
Originally posted by Kalfireth
Besides, sometimes I multi-task and if I have several FireFox windows open taking up memory that slows things down. I’m already having problems with PhotoShop, which – for reasons known to itself – is taking up around 80+ MB of memory with even small files loaded. I plan to reinstall that later but it’s not exactly helpful.
yeah, i'm not sure what's up with Photoshop. on a flat 800x600 jpg, mine takes up 44MB. but any type of PSD, it jumps up to 100 or more. i've got max set to 250, and i've seen it hit that twice. these days, i usually lower Photoshops priority. no performance problems at all and i can finally watch a movie while i draw.
what up, IceFire.
-
Originally posted by Kalfireth
Besides, sometimes I multi-task and if I have several FireFox windows open taking up memory that slows things down.
This is what tabs are for. Only need one Firefox window open to view multiple pages.
-
Fair enough, I still can't get on with it though - maybe in the future it'll be more attractive but not right now.
(On a side note, Photoshop seems to be acting very strangely indeed.. generally takes up about 40MB on startup but if you open a few .PSD files it can sky-rocket to over 200MB, and with that comes massive system slowdown. I've really no idea whats going on - it never used to be like this).
-
Originally posted by IceFire
Two windows open for IE and Firefox gets me 14 on IE and 16 on Firefox.
Out of interest, what's Firefox's peak usage like? And how well does it release that memory when windows/tabs are closed? I tend to have a large number of IE windows open (15-20) if I'm browsing around, and IE's peak usage can go through 90-100Mb but once it does, it usually stays high until I close the last IE window.
-
I want to continue this discussion, so ka-bump!
Thunder, if you drop IE for either Opera, FireFox, or Mozilla, I will stop calling you Thunder. :D
If you get your friends and family to convert away from IE, I will call you Kalfireth. :D
-
Originally posted by Arc
Out of interest, what's Firefox's peak usage like? And how well does it release that memory when windows/tabs are closed? I tend to have a large number of IE windows open (15-20) if I'm browsing around, and IE's peak usage can go through 90-100Mb but once it does, it usually stays high until I close the last IE window.
Well with 5 or 6 windows its about 30.
Doesn't release as much as it takes up. So like IE in that way...probably the same for most browsers.
-
I've used FIrefox ever since I had a massive spyware and adware invasion about 2 months ago. I have also shared it with my friends and they say they love it too.