Hard Light Productions Forums
Off-Topic Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: vyper on July 14, 2004, 05:32:58 pm
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http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/3892527.stm
We cannae be doing with this nonsense. When is Blair going to hear that the British people don't want to be part of this? :sigh: :blah:
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When they vote no to the Referendum he's giving us?
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I'm voting yes, BTW.
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It's already been stated they'll just go back and renegotiate the treaty - i reckon enough times to sicken the majority of voters into not voting in the 5th or so attempt and thus it'll get through, or it will be forced through anyway.
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[q]I'm voting yes, BTW.[/q]
Traitor.
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YES! Let's suck 'm dry and then dump 'm in the US's lap :D
:p
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Me too if its after September 7th.
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Originally posted by vyper
[q]I'm voting yes, BTW.[/q]
Traitor.
Xenophobe
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There's a difference between being xenophobic and fearing the destruction of one's country and culture at the hands of a corrupt, ever more centralized system of Government.
You may have overlooked the latter.
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Originally posted by Tiara
YES! Let's suck 'm dry and then dump 'm in the US's lap :D
:p
You jest, but Chriac would love to.
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Meh, people are just afraid of the future. it's gonna happen anyway. One way or the other. Sooner or later.
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Originally posted by vyper
There's a difference between being xenophobic and fearing the destruction of one's country and culture at the hands of a corrupt, ever more centralized system of Government.
You may have overlooked the latter.
I just want the euro, actually. Don't see a major difference in being run from Brussels rather than Westminister, and I'd rather be european than British.
'sides which, my country and culture survived the act of Union as much as it could have, despite the likes of Culloden (in particular). I see no reason to fear the EU any more than I do the current government.
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[q] it's gonna happen anyway. One way or the other. Sooner or later.[/q]
And if you want to be part of it, fine go be part of it but don't force or expect other countries to.
[q]I just want the euro, actually. Don't see a major difference in being run from Brussels rather than Westminister, and I'd rather be european than British.
'sides which, my country and culture survived the act of Union as much as it could have, despite the likes of Culloden (in particular). I see no reason to fear the EU any more than I do the current government.[/q]
aldo Scottish culture is barely existent. We're a tourist attraction ffs. Our own native Gaelic speakers are in a minority. There's probably more people speaking Urdu and Punjabi than Gaelic.
Do you want whatever is left of our history of being British (which we have at least some link left of) to be rolled over by mainland Europe? Controlled from people who are not Scottish, English, Welsh, any small group you could comically name?
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Originally posted by vyper
[q] it's gonna happen anyway. One way or the other. Sooner or later.[/q]
And if you want to be part of it, fine go be part of it but don't force or expect other countries to.
We're already part of it and our culture hasn't changed a bit. Your fears are completely unsubstantiated. Any degradation of your culture is to blame on yourself, not others. And we're not 'forcing' you into anything. That's just something you hold in your head as an excuse to bash the EU.
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[q]We're already part of it and our culture hasn't changed a bit.[/q]
[q]That's just something you hold in your head as an excuse to bash the EU.[/q]
Then why can EU courts over-rule mine?
Why do we have european directives on working weeks we didn't even hear of until they passed?
Why does certain EU members take out exactly the amount of money the UK puts in?
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Originally posted by vyper
aldo Scottish culture is barely existent. We're a tourist attraction ffs. Our own native Gaelic speakers are in a minority. There's probably more people speaking Urdu and Punjabi than Gaelic.
Do you want whatever is left of our history of being British (which we have at least some link left of) to be rolled over by mainland Europe? Controlled from people who are not Scottish, English, Welsh, any small group you could comically name?
Culture isn't controlled by governments, though. It's controlled by the people - look at how, for example, the Catalan and Basque identity survived Franco. Scottish culture is different from before, but it's there.
And yes, I'd rather be considered part of a european wide community than being part of a British community - because I feel more european than British. Anyone asks me, I'm Scottish, not British, so why should I care about the latter? What is history but ashes & dust, anyway?
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[q]so why should I care about the latter? [/q]
Because it's historical global dominance has provided you with freedom?
[q]What is history but ashes & dust, anyway?[/q]
Tell the jews that.
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Originally posted by vyper
Because it's historical global dominance has provided you with freedom?
You're joking right? :rolleyes:
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No, want to provide me with information on what great historical contribution your country has made to freedom and the progress of civilisation? Compared to Britain and when we had the Empire?
I guess it'll be propaganda from your own nation's history anyway - so don't bother. Men died to keep my country free, both Scotland as Britain, so I sure as hell won't bend over and let a new bunch of European imperialists act like they're better than us.
<< goes to bed
edit: fixed a typo with country, must've been subconcious ;)
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p.s. any other brit patriots feel free to jump in at any time while i'm gone
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Originally posted by vyper
aldo Scottish culture is barely existent. We're a tourist attraction ffs. Our own native Gaelic speakers are in a minority. There's probably more people speaking Urdu and Punjabi than Gaelic.
Well no tourist come to visit me. :sigh:
Plus, would you rather be speaking Gaelic? Scotland definatly still retains its individuality from the rest of the Uk in terms of language. Nobody from anywhere other than scotland could understand the Dorric (North east) tongue.
Originally posted by vyper
Do you want whatever is left of our history of being British (which we have at least some link left of) to be rolled over by mainland Europe?
Do you think 'Europeans' will ever be stereotyped under one banner? Look at Britain itself, most foriengers think of 'British' stereotypes as being the queen, Beefeaters etc. Scotland, and wales and NI to a lesser extent, are kept seperate.
Edit: I'd like to state that i was writing this before i knew you were going to bed :p
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Originally posted by vyper
[q]What is history but ashes & dust, anyway?[/q]
Tell the jews that.
I hope you're not bringing WW2 into this. Point is, you don't 'lose' your history by changing your country very slightly. Look at the USSR / Russia for an example.
What do we have to fear from being in the EU? We're already subject to the laws laid down in the UN, etc, we're pretty much beholden to the Americans interests, what difference does it make if we sit in another voting chamber?
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and we'll be remembered as the nation that used to rule an empire but are now just a little low-power member of the European superstate.
Thanks, but no thanks.
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and damnit i'm late for ma bed now
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Originally posted by vyper
No, want to provide me with information on what great historical contribution your ****ry has made to freedom and the progress of civilisation? Compared to Britain and when we had the Empire?
First of all, that must be the funniest typo ever! :lol:
Second of all, when you 'had' the Empire as you so elegantly stated, you subjegated other, poorer nations just like anyone else at the time. The historical global dominance has caused famine in half the world, the breach between the rich and the poor and a dozen other effects.
I guess it'll be propaganda from your own nation's history anyway - so don't bother. Men died to keep my country free, both Scotland as Britain, so I sure as hell won't bend over and let a new bunch of European imperialists act like they're better than us.
And nobody died to keep Holland free? May i remind you of the Spanish occupation that the Dutch shrugged off and died for just so that we could be independant.
Also, the French declared war on Brittain AND holland in 1793. The other way around on 1702 against Spain and France.
Don't sit their and be all innocent. Every country which has had as much power has blood on their hands and you know it.
Also, our nation did it's part when the Golden Century was there for the Dutch. We did the same when you 'had' your Empire. We subjegated entire countries and made the slaves work. It's not like I'm proud of that but it's part of our history. Something you refuse to acknowledge.
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Originally posted by vyper
and we'll be remembered as the nation that used to rule an empire but are now just a little low-power member of the European superstate.
Thanks, but no thanks.
We already are the nation that used to rule an empire and is now just George W. Bush*'s *****es, ready to provide a handy UN ally.
*or any US president
Oh, and IIRc the Dutch have a long history of exploration and were a significant naval power in the 1600s. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Netherlands)
I'm not scared of the EU. I welcome becoming part of our little subsection of the global village. I'm already in a country within a country - why should I be scared of being a country within a country within a group of countries?
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Originally posted by aldo_14
Oh, and IIRc the Dutch have a long history of exploration and were a significant naval power in the 1600s. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Netherlands)
*COUGH*
THE naval power
*COUGH*
:D
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The Netherlands is [..] famous for its [..] perceived social tolerance.
And i'm damned proud of it too! :D
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I'm getting to know quite a few funny facts i didn't yet know :D
The Dutch rank third worldwide in value of agricultural exports, behind the US and France.
Pretty good for a small as country compared to giants as the US and france. :D
The Netherlands is one of the most densely populated countries in the world, with more than 400 inhabitants per square km.
the hell... :wtf: Didn't know that :p
About 63% of the Dutch don't consider themselves to be members of a church.
Oh, HELL YEAH! I just LOVE my contry :D
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vyper, no is trying to steal your culture away.. If it has diminished, its due to the people who belong to it, not anyone else. This is excluding the Americanization, via McDonalds (oh the irony) et al, because the whole world has that..
The EU is a political and economic body, and to some degree, a judicial one. Scotland is no more a tourist attraction than any other European country. People travel from country to country, exploring different culutres and peoples. Thats a good thing, it allows people to understand the world around them, and that helps to comabt ignorance.
Do you have such an identity crisis that you would cling to whatever national identity you can scrap together, even if its taking pride in the Empire. Subjugation, murder, exploitation, you know all that. Oh and, if it'll make you happy, the British government is trying to reform schools to teach kids more about the Empire, so there you go.
If you're so worried about perserving your culutre, I suggest you pick up a claymore and get started :D:D Do something about it. Hell, Scotland has tons more culuture than Serbia does, but I still don't feel threatened. You guys have thousands of years of history, Robert the Bruce, kilts, bagpipes and so on. We (Serbs) mostly have food and a few funny dances. But no one can make me be less of a Serb. I've been living in Canada for most of my life, even more so if you consder that for 5 of the 8 years I spent in Yugo, I don't even remember.
Perservin your culture is, I would say, a worthy effort, but it has nothing to do with the EU..
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Originally posted by Tiara
*COUGH*
THE naval power
*COUGH*
:D
Forgetting Spain?
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Originally posted by aldo_14
Forgetting Spain?
In the Golden Age we had a bigger navy for some time. Mostly thanks to the colonies in the far east and South Africa. We had the perfect pit stop and ship yards there.
But even when our navy was smaller we still had a better one. The Dutch had smaller ships that almost couldn't be hit by the big ass ships the Spanish deployed. ;)
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Originally posted by Tiara
In the Golden Age we had a bigger navy for some time. Mostly thanks to the colonies in the far east and South Africa. We had the perfect pit stop and ship yards there.
But even when our navy was smaller we still had a better one. The Dutch had smaller ships that almost couldn't be hit by the big ass ships the Spanish deployed. ;)
Well....meh. I dunno, don't really care either.
Me->bed.
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G'night.
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Oh, and the Dutch were the best cartographers throughout most of modern (1500-1900) history. Basically, anyone who was anyone in cartography was either Dutch or was based in Holland.
...don't ask me how I know this.