Hard Light Productions Forums
General FreeSpace => FreeSpace Discussion => Topic started by: Silent Warrior on July 15, 2004, 09:57:13 am
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Now that the centering-thingy in my Wingman 3D seems to be giving out (imagine a constant wind-effect (Force Feedback) from MS Flight Sim 2004 every time I plug it in), I've bought myself this monster. I dare you to play Falcon 4 with my Wm3D. And let me quote someone from Wing Commander Prophecy: Whoa! That thing's bigger than I thought! :D
Anyway, we all know things are only as good as you make 'em. And there seems to be a whole lot of things you can do with an X-45. What I'm getting at is... is there any interest in a FS2_SCP-profile for the X-45? Or should I just make it for myself? In that case, I can go on and whip one up. Provided the controls are still what any reference-card that came with retail-FS2 (SCP-specific commands will make it in, if there are any known to me in the near future). I won't include any possible mod-specific command.
Just so you know, the stick isn't all that great for me in FS2 - too damn mighty centering-spring. :) I won't recommend people to buy this thing with the sole purpose of enjoying FS2 more, because I don't think you will. That stick'll make a proper man of me, though. ;7 If you want to buy it with the intent of maxing out your flight-simulating experience, on the other hand, I'll hurt you if you don't consider this stick.
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i had a saitek x-36 which has recently bit the dust. it was nice because id had a seprate throttle control and trim controls and more buttons and hat switches than i knew what to do with. i never used the configuration software with it. my gravis eliminator aftershock is a poor substitute. i want to find a good wireless stick with at least 6 axis controls and enough buttons to keep me busy. but it probibly dont exist.
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I'm still using my original Sidewinder 3D Pro :D
But my brother.... my brother is an insane propeller head. He bought a freakin' Cougar!
It weighs more than my computer!!!
It has almost as many button combos as my keyboard!!!!
It cost more than my video card!!!!
But damn it really lives up to it's HOTAS moniker... we mapped every single FS function to all the buttons on that monster :P
I still whipped his ass 'tho because the springs on that thing are ridiculous. You can't pull a snap-turn with spring tension like that!! Mwhahaha
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Same thing on the X45. :D 2 mm steel-spring, wound 3/4 times. Like I said, it'll make a man of me!
Well, any interest at all?
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Interest in what? Making a profile for it?
Mmm, is this just a mapping-buttons profile or some insane macro programming excercise?
For most people I reckon they'd rather assign buttons in FS2 to their own tastes so making a generic profile will be tricky. Best thing would be to just make your own and put it somewhere so people can get it if they want, but I don't think the X-45 has a big enough following to really make it wortwhile.
Then again I didn't think anyone would be mad enough to spend £300 on a Cougar, yet people have, *AND* they're paying more money for crazy mods like hall-probes to replace the pots!!!
I wanted to see if we could mod my brother's Cougar so it had IR optics (So we don't have to keep cleaning & replacing the damned pots!) and a a centralised spring, similar to my Sidewinder.
The biggest problem with the Cougar is that fine control is almost impossible - The heavy springs polarise stick movement along the 4 axis' until you get over 30% deflection, whereas my Sidewinder has perfectly uniform tension in all 360degs. Sadly since the actual stick (Not the just the base!) weighs so much these heavy springs are needed just to center the damned thing!!!
That's all-metal construction for you... I just hope I never drop this thing on my foot!
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LOL! Well, ok, a profile for myself, blab a bit about it here, see what kind of interest it rouses. Ok, natty dreads, back to sleep or something.
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I have the two hat switches on the main stick change out my weapons and energy settings, the main trigger fire guns, pinky trigger countermeasures, and the little red button on the back of the stick is the sub-space drive.
Haven't played it in ages though, so I can't remember it all...
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I want one :( :sigh: :ick:
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I use X-45 with FS2,
However, really don't recommend using their stupid drivers. took me ages to try to get the game to work with a profile.
Eventually i just decided not to use their drivers and the SST software. Instead i now use generic XP drivers, and let xp calibrate the joystick (which for some reason does a better job then Saitek Drivers) and Mapped the Keys/buttons on the keyboard in-game.
Of course the 3 extra Hats become individual buttons (2 4-way and 1 8-way). As do AUX.1 and Mode Selection switches.
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A pal of mine uses game commander (http://www.avault.com/hardware/getreview.asp?review=gcomm2) for his energy/sheild/weapons settings. All he does is say stuff like "sheilds!" and the computer diverts all the energy to sheilds.
It's really a bit too geeky for me but its cool to see him bark "Support!" and hear the command answer "Support here! We're on our way!"
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That sounds so damned cool :D
My bro programmed a crap load of macros for his Cougar for stuff like that - He has presets for different energy settings (Max shield/Gun, Max Engine etc.), most of the important comms things and we even managed to code a macro that throws makes your ship do a 180 degree flip then hits the burners to do a corkscrew maneouver (It's completely useless but it looks cool. Until you accidentally press it and crash into a Sathanas...)
You got me wondering if I can hack my old Creative Labs voice rec software to do stuff like that (Muhahaha!)
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Cyker: ROFLMAO!
Heh, I guess I better get started with that profile, huh? First bit o' intel: I'll base it on some thinking for a Falcon 4-profile - Mode 1 AA (Space-superiority, standard stuff), Mode 2 AG (Bombing things), Mode 3... Uh... Something-something that's left over. :D Ok, off to work.
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i miss the analog days. you could have a game card, that have nothing but a pair analog game ports on them. analog sticks did need to be calibrated all the time to keep em accurate but they are by far better than the sticks we got now. you didnt have to fight with the nightmare of usb drivers. when i was playing descent i used 2 cheapie sticks, one had a hat switch for my lateral thrusters. the funny thing is the whole setup cost me less that $30 and it kicked ass in mechwarrior 2 as well.
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*Nod* I've got an analogue stick for use with Ye Olde Privateer and others of that era. It's golden. Oh well, now I REALLY have to get to work on that profile. :) Said and done.
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I tried a Saitek, but it always seemed to 'lock' slightly in the centre, which meant that doing delicate manouvers was a nightmare, since if you applied enough force to get it away from the centre, once freed the stick would move far further than you wanted.
I've bought another Wingman Force 3D now, they really are nice joysticks :)
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I know what you mean, the Cougar has the same problem :(
Luckily we can tweak the dead-zone using the Foxy software, and Freespace 2's configs, but we really need to find a way of modding it for softer and more even tension because it's not very usable except in hard-core flightsims.
Good thing about my Sidewinder is that, instead of 2/4 seperate springs on up/down & left/right axis', it has one big-ass spring in the middle, which gives it uniform force all around, but it's quite soft too so you can pull of snap-roll maneouvers really easily without loosing the centre point :)
And it's analogue so I can still play X-Wing and TIE Fighter! (Well, at least I could if my 'board had a friggin' ISA slot for my beloved AWE32 *sigh*)
Well, there's always DOSBox I guess :D
I almost bought the Wingman I have to say - It is a damned good stick, although I have issues with the buttons :(
I just wish MS would make a USB/Analogue hybrid of my Sidewinder - They don't make 'em any more and the new ones (Precision-whatevers) suck (Ergonomic?! I'll give 'em ergo-bloody-nomic!!).
I can still run it in CH Flightstick Pro or Thrustmaster FCS emulation mode, but I can't use the digital-overdrive mode on any computer above a Pentium 233MMX! :(
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the x-36 i had had a single spring per axis. i found that by taking the springs ourt and replacing them with rubber bands loosented up the stick abit. what shocked me is that the thing used a pair of rehostats (microsoft sticks seem to use an optical sensor similar to the ones used in mice) that get run throu an adc and then the digital signal gets converted to a usb signal. its entirely possible to bypass the adc (analog->digital converter) and send the analog signal directly to the game port. because the game port only detects resistances of certain pins in the port. the wider the resistance range, the more sensitive the controll. anyone with some basic soldering skills and a woodshop could build their own analog stick to their personal preferances.
i personally want a long stick you place on the floor, it would have ruder pedals attached to the base. the stick would need to be able to move wide and would therefore give you much better control. you wouldnt need to springload the thing because it would be far easyer to estimate the center because the stick would be centerlined with your person. id also want to have a seprate throttle control with a 2 axis thumbstick (lateral thrusters!) and a few levers for engine control (ww2 flight simulators require you to adjust fuel mixture and prop pitch). i dont like to see to many buttons on sticks, thats why i have a keyboard.
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I use a CH fighterstick and found its soft springs with just the right tension. It's pricey though (got it for around 200 USD as a part of a stick/throttle package deal - it usually cost 150 usd when you buy them separate) but I heard these things it will last for years so I got them.
So far its been perfect for me, no fuzz or anything. :)
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I just happened upon a copy of FS2 in the local bargin bin the other day, and spent today setting up my X45.
Agreement on the useless Saitek drivers. However, I elected to head to http://saitekhelp.simhq.com/ and use the Dhauzimmer drivers plus Hazardscript. I created a new Hazardscript script that sets up all the default keys in FS2 to binds on the controls. Hat 2 is POV, the other hats cover targeting, comms, and system controls in modes 1, 2 and 3, respectively. Afterburner on fire D, countermeasures on throttle mouse button, weapon controls on the stick in all modes.
If anyone's interested in it (and already has Hazardscript installed), LMK
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Since we are all about profiles, if any of you guys need the CH joystick profile for Freespace, you can get it over here:
http://www.ch-hangar.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=261
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Well, since I may not post attachments, I'll type it all down here for you to marvel at. If anyone develops a healthy interest for it, let me know and I'll e-mail it.
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Mode 1 Mode 2 Mode 3
Trigger Right ctrl <- <-
Launch Space <- <-
Fire A H <- <-
Fire B Y K R
Fire C Q S G
Pinkie X <- <-
Fire D Tab <- <-
Mouse Fire Alt-J <- <-
Hat 1 POV ------------------------------
Hat 2 up Insert <- <-
Hat 2 right . <- <-
Hat 2 down Delete <- <-
Hat 2 left , <- <-
Hat 3 up Page Up <- <-
Hat 3 right - <- <-
Hat 3 down Page Down <- <-
Hat 3 left - <- <-
Mouse cur up Home <- <-
Mouse cur down End <- <-
Gah, formating's fudged!
[UPDATE!] Aux-buttons nixed - they didn't work like I hoped they would. Oh well.
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Originally posted by Nuke
the x-36 i had had a single spring per axis. i found that by taking the springs ourt and replacing them with rubber bands loosented up the stick abit. what shocked me is that the thing used a pair of rehostats (microsoft sticks seem to use an optical sensor similar to the ones used in mice) that get run throu an adc and then the digital signal gets converted to a usb signal. its entirely possible to bypass the adc (analog->digital converter) and send the analog signal directly to the game port. because the game port only detects resistances of certain pins in the port. the wider the resistance range, the more sensitive the controll. anyone with some basic soldering skills and a woodshop could build their own analog stick to their personal preferances.
Yah, pretty much every stick uses a bunch of pots or a variable-resistor type-thing, even my brother's beloved Cougar! :)
We used to mod our old sticks with non-linear pots for fun, and we actually made our own set of three-axis rudder pedals out of a chunk of wood, some metal rods, 3 pots and a load of Mecano :)
Needed a bit of trial and error because there *is* a limit to the resistance game ports can handle, but it's a veeery wide range ;)
I was surprised how few 'stick makers use optical tech - to my knowledge only Microsoft is the main user of them. I wish more would - not having to bugger about with calibration or worry about cleaning the carbon dust out of your pots ever 6 months is a joy!
Originally posted by Nuke
i dont like to see to many buttons on sticks, thats why i have a keyboard.
HOTAS! :D
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you wouldnt by chance know where i could dig up the specs on the game port. i think it would be really cool to design my own stick from scratch. then il go dig up my asian component catalog, you can get electrical components and circut board fabrication supplys. or hella cheap too :D
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i did find this circuit diagram
(http://www.epanorama.net/documents/joystick/FIG4.GIF)
the pots needed are usually 100k ohm. the gameport sends 5 volts throught the pots and it usually returns a current between 0.00005 amps and 5 amps. judging by this diagram making my own stick shouldnt be too hard. i could probibly pull the pots out of my dead x-36 and use the cables as well.