Hard Light Productions Forums
Off-Topic Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: Lonestar on July 15, 2004, 11:39:25 pm
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Ok we know the rights ar eup for grabs, and we know alot of people here are talking about helping out making FS3 a reality. Moreover we don't want to see anyone get the rights, especially some (i won't name names for obvious reasons).
Therefore, would it be a good idea to have a donation drive specifically geared to raising money to buy the license? If so, who can we trust to handle this transaction?
The way i see it is we got alot on the backburner as far as ideas go, and i want to see how far this particular idea can go personally as i myself would invest $10,000 USD a year if this came to fruition. Obviously i cant handle such a great undertaking alone so investing money in this is not the key. The key is to generate the support of the community here, and make them put their money where their mouth is.
This would be a huge deal guys. No community i know of has bought a license and developed a game for the mass audience. if they have they didnt do it well (explains why i never heard of it) and i think we all collectively could do much better.
So we need to put some things together.
Who will organize this?
Who will watch the cash and make the transactions?
Who will be responsible for coordinating the staff managers?
Who will be responsible for ensuring the quality of the game?
This is just a few questions. Again, its a HUGE undertaking. We could just buy the license collectively and sit on it until we find the right people to develope it and sell it to them for the same or higher price and divide the money amongst the parties who invested.
Many options.....
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for one, i say don't get caught up in the excitement... "who's going to organize" what? it's not as easy as going up to Interplay with a few thousand in hand and saying "I want the Freespace title rights!!!"
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There is no competition. For now, this "Derek Smart" guy, if he's up for it, has got everything necessary, he's got the cash, he's got the inside contact that can get him the rights, he's got everything but motive (as far as i'm concerned)... Perhaps rather than thinking "We can beat him!" It'd be more profitable for all of us to join him... or ASK him if we could buy the rights from him... i'm sure he'd be more than happy to make a small profit.
You're blowing this out of proportion. it's a proposed idea on his part... it might not even go through for all we know.
I say we sit it out for a little bit, and see what happens, and take matters from there...
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I'd trust Setekh with my hard earned cash.
I'd be willing to do anything I could, should I be called upon to do so.
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we've pissed him off, he is going to do anything and everything he can to piss us off
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we've pissed this Derek guy off and now because of that he's going to do everything he can to spite us?
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this guy owns a game company, doesn't he? i'd hope he'd be a little more mature than you estimate him as, and not hold a grudge because we don't agree with him.
either way, i think it's best to sit back and keep a close eye on what happens, rather than jumping to battle stations because of a few words posted on a forum
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Just because we buy the rights doesn't mean Derek Smart can't have his game. It just means he'd have to make an effective sales pitch to us, first.
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Originally posted by Bobboau
we've pissed him off, he is going to do anything and everything he can to piss us off
yeah, we pissed him off by not bowing to his greatness, which is what he expects. C'mon, you know as well as I do that the best way to pick a fight with someone like him is just to be born.
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that doesn't change the fact that he has lots of money and we don't.
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we're not going to get money by "all pitching in"... there's no amount that we as a tight-knit community can get without him beating. now don't say "where's your spirit" or "you're not a team player"... no the only difference with me is i look at things the way they are, sure it's good to be an optimist, but only to a point. we cannot pull enough money together to buy the rights to the game. and even if we can, what do we do when we have it? We all just "make" the game? of course not, there's a lot more involved. Marketing will costs thousands and thousands and thousands of dollars... money we don't have.
and you say "no, the game will just be for the community". well then why do we want the name. ask yourself that. i'm sure all of us would be more than willing to see a game that should be Freespace 3 but is entitled HLP Freespace Sim 1 or something. is all this just for the name "Freespace 3"? or is it (god forbid) on the minds of everyone to market it and make a fortune. because with the funds we have on hand, that's not going to happen.
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Bob: So we find out how many other people like FreeSpace and don't like Smart, to the extent that they're reluctantly willing to part with their pocket change in order to further said preferences. There's a (somewhat remote, but still present) possibility that that's sufficient numbers to scrape by- sure, you're not gonna see a lot of three-four figure offers anyone actually carries through on, but tenner donations can add up. Get a postive mention at Penny Arcade, and there'd be a fair shot.
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assumeing we could get the funds it would take us at least a few months to put it together, by wich time he'd already have bought the rights.
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I think other developers/publishers are going to want a piece of the action now. So, if we don't get it, at least there is the possbibilty that he won't either, and that a competent developer will.
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Bob: Not necessarily.
And, ****, what's your plan? Just sit around and hope he doesn't actually try and legislate your mods out of existence? How much more expensive would it be to fight him for those in court than to give a few bucks to a pool which, in case of failure, returns the goods?
Any plan's ****ing flawed. There never is and never has been much hope for anything good to ever happen. Still, sometimes it does. But not often to anyone who just sits by and hopes for a fairy godmother to come down and help them 'cause they're terminally idle.
Rictor: Uh, why now as opposed to "then"? Now they'd have to up the ante on an existing offer, making it more expensive, and now they've seen some fans react badly to a prospective buyer (they'll be quicker to overlook Smart's behavior). It never was much of a promising sale title.
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Originally posted by Stealth
this guy owns a game company, doesn't he? i'd hope he'd be a little more mature than you estimate him as, and not hold a grudge because we don't agree with him.
I'm sorry, but Derek Smart isn't that mature from what I've seen. Read a bit about his history (and look at his Avault signature too).
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hey, I didn't say we shouldn't try, I'm willing to put thousands into this.
I'm just realistic,
it's best to expect the worst and be suprised than the oposite.
though there is one bright side, he seems to have a FREAKING HUGE hate comunity
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Stryke, put the mod/SCP/whatever files on a server in India, pay 5 bucks a month for unlimited bandwidth and watch his lawyers look on in helplessness.
I don't think judicial problems are the real threat here. And yes, I do agree, sitting around doing nothing is not going to accomplish much. But its been like what, 6 hours? Give it a day or two.
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@stealth
I'm perfectly willing to retain a calm outlook at this but given Mr. Smart's history, I fear it may be a hopeless one.
If FS3 is indeed made by him, I do plan to check out review beforehand before getting it though. It may be that it won't have a fate like the previous games from Mr. Smart, but sicne he claims to get it out in 18 months and doesn't seem to give a hoot about anyone from this forum of fans, I can't help but feel that it will be a slim chance.
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He's not going to sue the fund, Rictor. Get the difficulties straight. The problem is that people aren't likely to trust the word of a bunch of wierdo gamers they've never met or even necessarily heard of. Setting up a legal charity or finding an independent base for the pool solves that- nobody gets worried about their money getting up and walking away rather than being used for its stated purpose, that doesn't actually end up happening, and it's tax-deductible. That means more money for the fund.
Bob: Best not to speak of the worst, though. I'm not expecting much, either. But it's not exactly the sorta thing to dwell on, if you wanna get far.
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well I was just saying that if this got started we could probly count on a bunch of "this'll show that damned Smart" people.
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I was talking about his suing the mods/SCP, not the fund. When or if a fund is established, he can't touch it. Yes, the fund has be look legit, but I don't see what that has to do with anything, I agree as I already mentioned.
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AFAIK he can sue the mods related to the expansion of FS, but not the SCP, or Kaz's FE2, or for that matter any of the TCs that just use the engine (TBP is safe, unless JMS goes mad or something)
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He can try to sue whoever he likes, and since most of us aren't wealthy and aren't planning on spending thousands in lawyer fees to fight it he could win anyway. Which is why I suggested my little shuffling trick in the other thread.
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I'd trust Steak with my money anyday. Not that I want to throw this on him or anything.
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If a random woman on the web can get total strangers to give her $4,500 for a boob job (http://www.giveboobs.com/index.html) then I wouldn't underestimate what people might be willing to donate to a fund for FS3. :D
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Somebodies been searcing for Boobs on google.
:p
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Hmm....Tiara? ;)
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Originally posted by Stryke 9
He can try to sue whoever he likes, and since most of us aren't wealthy and aren't planning on spending thousands in lawyer fees to fight it he could win anyway. Which is why I suggested my little shuffling trick in the other thread.
As of today, all of my modding work is the responsibility of a Mr Hornimo Gualgara, of Ecuador. Please direct all queries to him.
:nervous:
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Yeah, well, aldo, as stupid as that sounds, we can get a long way by doing that.
And I'd donate, but since I am both a minor, and in Holland, it is in no way practical for me to lead this. I'll set up a site and stuff, but I'd need my parents to sign everything, and half of it won't go through for me being a non-US citizen.
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I think we need a legal framework to protect our own IPR - i.e. SCP work, mods, etc - in the event of MR. Smart getting the license. Or just to clarify our own ownership rights..... what he's been posting elsewhere suggest that he'd want to try and attack any community which didn't like him or his games - and that he'd oppose any mods.
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Originally posted by Stryke 9
And, ****, what's your plan? Just sit around and hope he doesn't actually try and legislate your mods out of existence? How much more expensive would it be to fight him for those in court than to give a few bucks to a pool which, in case of failure, returns the goods?
Any plan's ****ing flawed. There never is and never has been much hope for anything good to ever happen. Still, sometimes it does. But not often to anyone who just sits by and hopes for a fairy godmother to come down and help them 'cause they're terminally idle.
and your idea was just because someone posted on a forum that he's THINKING about buying the rights, was to have everyone give as much as they can, and tehn you're somehow going to go up to Interplay (how are you going to do that again?) and propose your money for the Freespace title rights. and then once you've got the title (wow) you're going to make a game, which, i admit, could be done relatively cheap, if for any money at all, by the community, but if you want that game to actually DO something, unlike Freespace 2 which was a hopeless failure, you're going to have to put a lot (LOT) of money into marketing it...advertising, etc.
I'm not an expert either, but from how i've seen many people react i'd say not many are experienced when it comes to creating a game, buying title rights, etc. perhaps if you'd go ahead and do some research in the next few days it would help this campaign a lot.
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Originally posted by Stealth
and your idea was just because someone posted on a forum that he's THINKING about buying the rights, was to have everyone give as much as they can, and tehn you're somehow going to go up to Interplay (how are you going to do that again?) and propose your money for the Freespace title rights. and then once you've got the title (wow) you're going to make a game, which, i admit, could be done relatively cheap, if for any money at all, by the community, but if you want that game to actually DO something, unlike Freespace 2 which was a hopeless failure, you're going to have to put a lot (LOT) of money into marketing it...advertising, etc.
I'm not an expert either, but from how i've seen many people react i'd say not many are experienced when it comes to creating a game, buying title rights, etc. perhaps if you'd go ahead and do some research in the next few days it would help this campaign a lot.
It's not so much as making the game, but making sure that the license goes to the right developers. Or in this case, not to the wrong developers.
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true, it would be nice to have the title rights, but at the same time it would be heavy competition, and it might (as i mentioned) be worth it to sit back and keep watching over the next few days, rather than having everyone send their money and start a "pool" and all that.
right now it's just words, no basis to them. for all we know he's just saying that he's going to buy the title rights to show off.
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OK i did some research on "Derek Smart" and some of the games he's been involved with, and i don't like him either now.
However, has anyone considered working WITH him rather than AGAINST him? perhaps confronting him with our views and perhaps (just perhaps) if he sees all of us willing to put our work into making the game, and all he'd have to do is market it, and if he reads through our history and sees the dedication many of us have, he'll be willing to allow us to, and he'll retain the rights, and the game will be under "Freespace 3", but developed by US, marketed and coordinated by HIM. although perhaps we already blew that chance with everyone talking **** about him earlier :doubt:
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^ I guess we could try.
But I fear there is now an effective firewall between him and us due to our 'enthusiasm'.
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first responce he made so someone saying "hey come to HLP see what we have to say" was met with something to the equivelent of "I don't CARE about your STUPID opionios, becase you ARE NOTHING AND WORTHLESS!!!!"
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Originally posted by Stealth
OK i did some research on "Derek Smart" and some of the games he's been involved with, and i don't like him either now.
However, has anyone considered working WITH him rather than AGAINST him? perhaps confronting him with our views and perhaps (just perhaps) if he sees all of us willing to put our work into making the game, and all he'd have to do is market it, and if he reads through our history and sees the dedication many of us have, he'll be willing to allow us to, and he'll retain the rights, and the game will be under "Freespace 3", but developed by US, marketed and coordinated by HIM. although perhaps we already blew that chance with everyone talking **** about him earlier :doubt:
We've already established he is not willing to work with us - just look at my posts on the locked AV thread., and his responses.
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then perhaps it's time to accept destiny, and realize that you can't fight someone that's got many, many times more funding than we do.
it's not a just world. some things happen you just have to accept. be glad someone's taking the interest in making a sequel to Freespace 2 in the first place. isn't that what we've wanted all along?
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Expect the worse, but hope for the best.
And in the meanwhile, place our trust in Kazan and the Ferrium Project.
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exactly.
i think everyone's rushing into this a little too hastily, with no knowledge of what it entails.
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Stealth, i hear you. You posted it about 10 times now.
You dont think it will work out. Thanks for the opinion, now please move on and allow those who do beleive to continue posting un-impeded.
Just because you think its impossible doesnt mean you have to force feed it to us dude. No offense, but i posted this less then 14 hours ago, and most of the replies come from you.
This post was a post to see how people felt and if its at all possible. At this rate i think their is too many 'nay-sayers' to even start a fund drive of this sort, so im withdrawing this post until things cool down tremendously.
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I would be willing to stand at the head of this, for the sake of the community being able to place their funds into a trustworthy place. But I am committed to waiting this out yet a little longer.
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Originally posted by Lonestar
Stealth, i hear you. You posted it about 10 times now.
You dont think it will work out. Thanks for the opinion, now please move on and allow those who do beleive to continue posting un-impeded.
Just because you think its impossible doesnt mean you have to force feed it to us dude. No offense, but i posted this less then 14 hours ago, and most of the replies come from you.
This post was a post to see how people felt and if its at all possible. At this rate i think their is too many 'nay-sayers' to even start a fund drive of this sort, so im withdrawing this post until things cool down tremendously.
The reason i posted so many times is because people (like yourself) get excited and start thinking irrationally... someone who's thinking straight has to say "wait a minute, rather than rush into this with no knowledge of the proper proceedings, and no knowledge of what we're going to do, let's wait it out a bit..."
check out the facts, and then think to yourself what you're going to do. i don't think it's impossible. i think it's highly unlikely.
EDIT: also check your definition of "Impede". it means to slow down or obstruct something. my posting MY opinion is hardly slowing down or obstructing other people from posting.
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I didnt do it irrationally, i thought of it quite long. If you read my initial post you will notice their was alot of thought behind it. Ive organizaed MOD sites, Clans Sites, league Sites and more so i thought i could give it a shot running a free freespace drive.
Im not going to argue with you, but i will say one thing. Make your point and that it. there is no use you repeating it in the same thread over and over whether you think we are irrational or not.
I understand your concern Stealth, but your being quite pushy and now quite assuming and its not something most people appreciate including myself.
Im deadly serious about this idea and will see it through to the end if people are willing to support the idea. Just because Stealth says im being irrational does not make it true, so if you still do beleive then dont lose hope, ill bring this idea back when things have cooled down considerably.
Im not excited, anxious, disappointed, happy or anything about the Derek Smart Decision to possibly buy Freespace 2. So saying im being irrational in my decision is way off base considering my reaction to Derek Smarts decision was un-emotional.
Anyways lets not focus on buying the license at this time, although we could raise the money (anything is possible) time is a huge factor. We may be able to raise it quickly and buy it on time, however we are best to just put it off for right now and let Derek make the first move.
If you think im crazy to let this idea go then fill my email box with your desire to help out: [email protected]
I can keep things clean in email, and not as publicized which would help this situation more then posting it on the forums here. I really think we should wait for more news first though.
Stealth, no hard feeling. I just think your a little overbearing at times and sometimes you assume to much but thats ok, cause im not perfect either. I can be overbearing as well in some manners. Its all good, lets just try to keep things positive in this community, k?
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And yeah, folks, keep it all in perspective. You're on the same team here. :)
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not overbearing, just not over-exaggerating.
the only person assuming anything here is you... you say "let's try to keep things positive in the community"... well i am positive. i've been in the community longer than most people, and if anyone wants to see a FS3 it's me, but that doesn't mean we can't wait a bit.
i've said my piece. everyone go along with Lonestar and send your money in to a cause that we're not even sure exists yet.
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LOL, no ones sending anything yet. This is just a discussion. I can wait as well, this is not about rushing to making a game, or even rushing to collect money to buy the license, this is merely a post asking what we could do collectively if we were inclined to do so.
Nothing more. If something comes of this, then great. if it doesnt, oh well. Im just doing what i think is right, and if im wrong i can accept that, however ignoring the topic entirely is just not an option to me.
If ive angered you i apologize. My intentions are good....
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And it's not like this is the first time this subject is discussed either - many times in the past we've seen discussions about the rights for Freespace 3 here on HLP, with the same idea about the fund being raised. The difference now is that an external event sparked the new debate.
Let's just try to keep it friendly, even if some of us disagree with the others. :)