Hard Light Productions Forums
General FreeSpace => FreeSpace Discussion => Topic started by: icespeed on July 17, 2001, 07:00:00 pm
-
i was just reading about the species on the main page, and there's a part which says there's a theory that shivans evolved in zero-g, which is why they are so strong, and can run around on the roof.
now, i'm no xenobiologist, so someone tell me if i've got some detail totally wrong, but shivans can't have evolved in zero-g.
Here's why:
shivans supposedly have some sort of support system, the equivalent of a skeleton. In order to evolve strength, gravity is needed, because strength comes from the ability to resist falling down. The support system provides most of the resisting interstructure, and strength. In zero-g, nothing needs to resist; there's just the old 'action and reaction' thing.
instead, perhaps shivans evolved on a low mass, high density body... moons, or maybe a comet cloud... or an oort cloud.
anyway, someone tell me if i'm totally on the wrong track...
-
Sounds right to me...
(BTW; I am not new, I changed my name... me = no longer Snipes (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/wink.gif))
-
You are wrong because they can live in space, dont you rameber the FS1 cutceen when the Lusffer jumped in the Shivans did not have space soots, and that means that they can live in space. Did you read the the info in the tech room, they said that the Shivans have only been seen in 0-G environments, you are right about their stragth.
------------------
The Ancients a old and proud reace, one that is not all alone, and I am not one of them, but I am Nouben.
[This message has been edited by StarGunner (edited 07-17-2001).]
-
I was agreeing with the strength aspect. The 'Living in space' one, is a totally different ballgame.
-
They're cyborgs. Chances are, they've undergone significant genetic alteration as well.
-
Originally posted by StarGunner:
You are wrong because they can live in space, dont you rameber the FS1 cutceen when the Lusffer jumped in the Shivans did not have space soots, and that means that they can live in space. Did you read the the info in the tech room, they said that the Shivans have only been seen in 0-G environments, you are right about their stragth.
Dude, she hasn't got FreeSpace. (She's just very l33t with the information she gets.)
As for Shivans not wearing space suits, who says that the exoskeleton itself isn't a space suit? If we were aliens and all we saw of humans was these moving plastic-kinda things with a shiny bubble on top (that's a NASA space suit, btw), how would they know that we were wearing space suits?
-
well, then, they would think we're larves lol; shivan doesn't look weak and dumb in what you would call a space suit. Plus you can see their eyes and so on. What are the shivans, it's so hard to say that if you want to know, you'll have to torture a volition god (I dunno, trap him in an empty room, and make him hear only Britney Spear music?)
I do think that they grown in a zero G environment. Shivan never comes on a planet, their corridor are round with no floor, and so on. They're strong not because of gravity, but because they must, I dunno, work hard? Alwys doing stuff in their ships, reparing stuff and so on (imagine an ant-hill). And maybe they ARE weak, and so that could explain the exoskeleton stuff.
-
Originally posted by Raa Tor'h:
(BTW; I am not new, I changed my name... me = no longer Snipes (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/wink.gif))
I know why you did that.... you were tyred of your title (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/biggrin.gif) Am I right or am I wrong?? (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/biggrin.gif) (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/biggrin.gif) (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/biggrin.gif)
-
Oh, no! I just caused a derailment!!!! (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/frown.gif)
I'm becoming you Snipes, noooooooooooooo!!!!!!!! (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/smile.gif) (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/biggrin.gif)
btw, venom may be right... and about that thing of interrogating a V god, trap hi with a bomb in the V HQ WC (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/wink.gif)... It worked once here in Port!
-
I've always though the Shivans were like the Gaim ("http://www.b5tech.com/league/leagueraces/gaimrace/gaimrace.html") from Babylon 5, capable of genetically altering... well, themselves to breed different kinds of Shivans. The Shivans we know, the ones in the spaceships, are zero-g -altered space Shivans. That would explain them not going down to any planets. So it's possible that there are different kinds of Shivans that live on the ground.
I originally thought the Sathani were colony ships, holding the planet-dwelling Shivans. But that makes no sense, since they wasted half of them with the Capella sun, and they never showed any interest in planets anyway.
-
Originally posted by venom2506:
shivan doesn't look weak and dumb in what you would call a space suit
If you think about it, And if you read the FS1 tech descriptions of Terrans, The Terran race is a relatively weak species. Certainly not the strogest cretures physically, but mentally, dominant. That is why us Terrans are running around destroying Earth, and not the red-assed baboons.
As for the suits, Watch the Hallfight mve. Those were self contained space suits, And they were very low profile. There was no air in the Shivan vessel, atleast as far as we knew. So a breathing aparatus would have been needed. And if you look at the girls face, the one who screams DIE DIE DIE!, you can see her eyes. She looks right at the Shivan before... *POP*
And also, think about how many millenia ahead of us Shivans are. They may have been built with this "Suit" inbedded into their bodies...
-
Originally posted by Jabu:
I originally thought the Sathani were colony ships, holding the planet-dwelling Shivans. But that makes no sense, since they wasted half of them with the Capella sun, and they never showed any interest in planets anyway.
What makes you think that about 20 sathani was half of them? I'm willing to bet there were about 1,000,000,000 more on the other side of those Knossoses that you and Snipes found, with Xinny and Zero... (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/wink.gif)
-
Originally posted by Raa Tor'h:
If you think about it, And if you read the FS1 tech descriptions of Terrans, The Terran race is a relatively weak species. Certainly not the strogest cretures physically, but mentally, dominant. That is why us Terrans are running around destroying Earth, and not the red-assed baboons.
As for the suits, Watch the Hallfight mve. Those were self contained space suits, And they were very low profile. There was no air in the Shivan vessel, atleast as far as we knew. So a breathing aparatus would have been needed. And if you look at the girls face, the one who screams DIE DIE DIE!, you can see her eyes. She looks right at the Shivan before... *POP*
And also, think about how many millenia ahead of us Shivans are. They may have been built with this "Suit" inbedded into their bodies...
Of course, you're assuming that the Shivans actually need space suits to survive in deep space. Possibly they breathe nebular gas, and are able to store it (like a camel) over a very long time. Possibly that's why they blew up capella - to create a more viable living space.
Maybe they can metabolise minute particles in space, or can live from sunlight. Also, their exoskeleton, or whatever it is, may be able to withstand the pressures of vacumn.
-
Yep. Assuming all, that is right. Maybe they don't need anything... maybe they don't exist, and are merely holograms, created by Petrarch to serve his every whim, and to bring on a war that he needs, to stay in control of the Aquitaine...
-
Originally posted by Raa Tor'h:
What makes you think that about 20 sathani was half of them? I'm willing to bet there were about 1,000,000,000 more on the other side of those Knossoses that you and Snipes found, with Xinny and Zero... (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/wink.gif)
I meant half of the force I like to call the "GTVA Systems Colonisation Force" (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/biggrin.gif)
-
Originally posted by Raa Tor'h:
Yep. Assuming all, that is right. Maybe they don't need anything... maybe they don't exist, and are merely holograms, created by Petrarch to serve his every whim, and to bring on a war that he needs, to stay in control of the Aquitaine...
Oh no... you've stumbled onto the Secret Plan!!!! you must be sdestroyed.
Summon the Daleks!!!
-
Isn't the entire argument pointless because there's no possible way we could figure out the truth?
Of course, that isn't going to stop people.. (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/spineyes.gif)
-
Originally posted by Alikchi:
Isn't the entire argument pointless because there's no possible way we could figure out the truth?
Of course, that isn't going to stop people.. (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/spineyes.gif)
Blasphomer! You are not allowed to say such things! (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/hammer.gif)
Back on topic! Anyone!
-
Originally posted by Alikchi:
Isn't the entire argument pointless because there's no possible way we could figure out the truth?
And what is the meaning of life?
The Shivans seem to move around their ships by clinging to ridges in the tunnels with their claws. We don't know the crew sizes for the ships, so perhaps there may be a relatively small number of Shivans with the responsibility of piloting very large ships, so they might build up their stregnth by travelling great distances along these tunnnels to get to variuos areas of their ships.
Although in appearence they don't seem that different from the ships they fly(beams and bug like characteristics). Perhaps the Shivan ships are a different spicies of shivan.
[This message has been edited by Top Gun (edited 07-18-2001).]
-
Harg... no, shivan ships are definitively not organic...Damn derelict lol (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/biggrin.gif)
Have you ever seen an organic creature with sensors and turrets, with beams?
Ok, more seriously, an organic creature wouldn't be affected by disruption weaponary, it would bleed when hit, something like that,and the shivan would have the same kind of weapons, olny smaller, not those plasma launchers.
Plus look at the ships... do they look organic? That's metal, for sure.
Volition did thought about the shivan ships as organic ships (look at the apocalypse concept pic, it's obvious), but it's also clear they trashed the idea. Vasudian ships are probably more close of the organic ship (look at the strange green "veins" on the anubis, if you don't believe me...)
For the vacuum stuff in the shivan ship (hall fight cutscene)... That's not vacuum. Put a terran in space vacuum without spacesuit to see what happens ( summary: it freezes in half a secon).
For the shivans breathing nebulaes... Damn, don't you think they have enough nebulaes in the universe not to blow Capella to have one more? lol
Well, after all, you know what I think (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/smile.gif) (look above if not )
-
Originally posted by venom2506:
Harg... no, shivan ships are definitively not organic...Damn derelict lol (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/biggrin.gif)
Have you ever seen an organic creature with sensors and turrets, with beams?
Ok, more seriously, an organic creature wouldn't be affected by disruption weaponary, it would bleed when hit, something like that,and the shivan would have the same kind of weapons, olny smaller, not those plasma launchers.
Plus look at the ships... do they look organic? That's metal, for sure.
Volition did thought about the shivan ships as organic ships (look at the apocalypse concept pic, it's obvious), but it's also clear they trashed the idea. Vasudian ships are probably more close of the organic ship (look at the strange green "veins" on the anubis, if you don't believe me...)
For the vacuum stuff in the shivan ship (hall fight cutscene)... That's not vacuum. Put a terran in space vacuum without spacesuit to see what happens ( summary: it freezes in half a secon).
For the shivans breathing nebulaes... Damn, don't you think they have enough nebulaes in the universe not to blow Capella to have one more? lol
Well, after all, you know what I think (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/smile.gif) (look above if not )
You are wrong with those ships! Shivan ships must be kind of organic origin.
in the ending cutscene of fs2 as the sathanas fleet is producing the subspace field to destroy the star the arms of Sathanases comming together to make space annomaly. And the metal isn't capable of bending so well.
-
Originally posted by venom2506:
For the shivans breathing nebulaes... Damn, don't you think they have enough nebulaes in the universe not to blow Capella to have one more? lol
Well, after all, you know what I think (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/smile.gif) (look above if not )
Well, i wasn't entirely serious. It was just a possibility.
-
Originally posted by c-lock:
You are wrong with those ships! Shivan ships must be kind of organic origin.
in the ending cutscene of fs2 as the sathanas fleet is producing the subspace field to destroy the star the arms of Sathanases comming together to make space annomaly. And the metal isn't capable of bending so well.
So how do i open my room door then? metal it self cant bend enough to get into the position when they created the subspace field.So thats why we HUMANS use joints to open en close doors,and maby the shivan have something similar like that to bend those arms.
------------------
(http://forums.civfanatics.com/smilies/beerchug.gif)
------------------
[email protected] Staff member of
SOC Inferno,can you defeat the shivans?
Soc Inferno
iqc 102628858
-
Originally posted by c-lock:
You are wrong with those ships! Shivan ships must be kind of organic origin.
in the ending cutscene of fs2 as the sathanas fleet is producing the subspace field to destroy the star the arms of Sathanases comming together to make space annomaly. And the metal isn't capable of bending so well.
Plus that's wrong. Have you never heard about metals with "memory"? Have you never seen a spring?!?
And have you ever heard about sci-fie? Damn, the T1000 is in liquid metal, you should scream to unrealism dude lol
-
Originally posted by darkage:
So how do i open my room door then?
Well, I just slide mine open (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/biggrin.gif)
-
Metal is simply a liquid that flows extremely slowly at room temperature.... indeed, the high temperature of the Capella sun could actually heat the Sath 'arms' enough that they are literally melting as the beams charge.
------------------
Team Member of The Ghost and the Darkness ("http://uk.geocities.com/gunnery_control/index.html")
[email protected]
ICQ: 119819902
"Well I believe ther's someone watching over you. They're watching every word you say. And when you die they'll take you down and take you through. You'll realise one day that the grass is always greener on the other side, the neighbours got a car that you wanna drive, and when time is running out you wanna stay alive. There is no wrong, there is no right, and the circle only has one side...."
(c)2001 Travis
-
Well, for my part I just think those are mechanized claws, nothing else.
-
Originally posted by StarGunner:
You are wrong because they can live in space, dont you rameber the FS1 cutceen when the Lusffer jumped in the Shivans did not have space soots, and that means that they can live in space. Did you read the the info in the tech room, they said that the Shivans have only been seen in 0-G environments, you are right about their stragth.
Setekh's right, i don't have freespace anyway. Even so, i reckon shivans evolved in a high gravity environment and then genetically modified themselves to live in zero-g space.
or they might just be extremely advanced robots that are controlled from far far away... after all, if humans can be intellectually better than they are physically, who says shivans can't be?
er... i didn't put that very well, did I?
-
(http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/v.gif) has stated Shivans are cyborgs. The assumption is that they have also been genetically modified, perhaps very heavily.
-
Originally posted by venom2506:
Have you ever seen an organic creature with sensors and turrets, with beams?
[/B]
ever heard of downloading personalities?AI?
ship doesn't have to be organic to think...
all relates back to shivan 'superior' mentality...
-
Where are your manners, guys? Welcome to HLP, c-lock. (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/smile.gif)
As for cyborgs, here's another topic? What exactly are cyborgs?
-
A living organism with inorgamic implants, such as replacement organs, limbs, etc. So technically someone with an artificial heart is a cyborg, although really you shouldn't use the term until a significant portion of the 'meat' has been replaced by 'metal'.
-
Originally posted by icespeed:
ever heard of downloading personalities?AI?
ship doesn't have to be organic to think...
all relates back to shivan 'superior' mentality...
Yep, you're right. Then it's not an organic creature dude, it's a robot, a computer... And you're confirming what I say.
-
A good example of a cyborg is the borg from star trek, the man cannot survive without the machine and the machine cannot survive without the man.
------------------
"For 10,000 years we have thought the
long war and our hatred still knows no
succour. Those who have defied us shall
feel the full wrath of Chaos..."
-Abaddon the Despoiler.
-
Originally posted by Top Gun:
And what is the meaning of life?
42
Personally, I beleive the ships are metal, and I also think Cyborg is a term for a organic entity either completly controlled by the machine, or where the machine has a certain amount of control over the whole entities operation.
Also, on a final note...
Originally posted by Icespeed:
Setekh's right, i don't have freespace anyway
Buy it! That's a direct order pilot (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/tongue.gif)
-
Originally posted by The Claw:
Personally, I beleive the ships are metal, and I also think Cyborg is a term for a organic entity either completly controlled by the machine, or where the machine has a certain amount of control over the whole entities operation.
Well, then according to that, a person with a pace maker is a cyborg, because the machine aspect controls whether the organic aspect survives.
-
Originally posted by venom2506:
Yep, you're right. Then it's not an organic creature dude, it's a robot, a computer... And you're confirming what I say.
did i say i disagreed?
do cyborgs have to have metal parts? couldn't they be... i don't know, plastic? there has to be some sort of material which is better than metal and isn't dangerous at the same time...
-
You could have a Carbon Fibre derivative instead of metal - it's used in bikes etc and is a hell of a lot stronger than metal (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/wink.gif)
------------------
The Modder with many names -
*Shadowman
*Shade
I have returned from the pit of darkness, just about =)
-
Originally posted by The Claw:
Buy it! That's a direct order pilot (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/tongue.gif)
Pilotesse. (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/smile.gif)
And if she wants a copy, she can borrow mine. (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/smile.gif)
-
Originally posted by Raa Tor'h:
those Knossoses that you and Snipes found,
Heheheheh... it just sounds funny to hear you say "you and snipes"
Nevermind... (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/smile.gif)
------------------
Staff Member, Hard Light Productions ("http://www.3dap.com/hlp")
Creator / Project Coordinator: The Perfect Storm ("http://www.3dap.com/hlp/tps/")
TPS Forums Page - Click Here ("http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/forumdisplay.cgi?action=topics&forum=The+Perfect+Storm&number=15")
Think you've got killer vocal cords? Voice actors needed! Email me @ [email protected]
These detonators were a piece of junk! I even followed the directions... - Lt. Commander Snipes - Special Operations Command
-
One reason I changed the nick... (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/wink.gif)
-
The Shivans are evil space elves... they live inside the Sathani and nobody ever sees them, the evil 5-legged buglike guys everyone sees are just the result of combined indigestion and spacecrack.
------------------
Left Behind:
www.wpierce.com/wlp/FS2/lbmain.html
-
But now that my 75+% spams record has been made:
Your whole assumption is that for the Shivans to have modified themselves, they had to put in metal plates and stuff. Not so. The idea of the description is that the Shivans have reached a tech level beyond the welding-steel-onto-crap stage, and have learned how to augment themselves with parts they grow (reason the ships are so ugly). It doesn't have to be alive to grow, the ships copuld be like an advanced fingernail or something (even if it was alive, who says it would bleed? Who here is an expert on Shivan physiology?). They probably at some point learned to genetically enhance themselves, making the ugly dude you see in the techroom. Odds are the Shivans looked nothing like that originally, and there is a chance that the real Shivans don't even in the time the game is set in, and those are a sort of specially-bred fighter drone who goes out and kills, while another kind of Shivan stays home and does the building and thinking. This would explain how they manage to be so tough AND smart...
------------------
Left Behind:
www.wpierce.com/wlp/FS2/lbmain.html
-
Originally posted by Stryke 9:
...welding-steel-onto-crap...
Do you mind? The mental pictures this conjures... ugghhhh... *shudders* (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/lol.gif)
------------------
"He who laughs last thinks slowest."
"Just becase you're paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get you."
"To err is human; to really screw up you need a computer."
Creator of the Sandvich Bar ("http://michael.randelman.com"), the CapShip Turret Upgrade, the Complete FS2 Ship List and the System Backgrounds List (all available from the site)
-
you need a big garden to grow 80 sathanas (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/lol.gif)
-
Originally posted by Setekh:
As for Shivans not wearing space suits, who says that the exoskeleton itself isn't a space suit? If we were aliens and all we saw of humans was these moving plastic-kinda things with a shiny bubble on top (that's a NASA space suit, btw), how would they know that we were wearing space suits?
Adam Pletcher says that they are not exoskeletons, but creatures with cybernetic implants.
-
What? Didn't you see the repair ship/space turd in the FS modding topic?
I dunno about a Sathanas garden... The thing that lives in my fridge looks like a Sathanas pupa sort of...
------------------
Left Behind: www.wpierce.com/wlp/FS2/lbmain.html ("http://www.wpierce.com/wlp/FS2/lbmain.html")
[This message has been edited by Stryke 9 (edited 07-23-2001).]