Hard Light Productions Forums
Off-Topic Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: Setekh on July 17, 2004, 10:20:52 am
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This thread is intended to be just what it says it is: a dialogue, on FreeSpace 3 - what shape it may take, the issues of licensing, etc. - between Derek Smart and HLP. It will be heavily moderated, moreso than normal. The condition of posting in this thread is that we are laying our weapons down - all of us - and discussing this in a civilised way. I will edit anyone's post if it contains even remotely inflammatory material. Leave your personal issues at the door. We are here to discuss the game, and the game alone. After all, that is what we at HLP are interested in.
If you have second thoughts about whether you can control yourself - then leave this thread.
Derek, my question is simple: you have revealed parts of your plans for FS3 on various threads in various forums, but what I want to hear is a brief statement of what your vision for FS3 is. Thank you.
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We never gave him what we usually give newcomers.
:welcome:
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I dare say something else:
I wasn't hostile with DSmart and I still keep saying the same: Let's see how FS3 will turn out and if we do not like it, we keep modding FS2(if it will be still alive by the time FS3 comes out.)
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Well Im hoping it comes out alright.
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I really don't know why closing that thread was vital. You should have started to strictly moderate all posts as soon as Mr. Smart responded. This is my opinion.
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TopAce, it's not an easy thing to strictly moderate all posts on a thread growing as fast as that. :)
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Mr. Smart,
What the community would like is to see some clear guidelines on your intentions and purposes in the eventuality you will acquire the Freespace licence.
Also, it would be nice if you can explain how much collaboration you can gt from Volition or even part of the old FS2 development team.
Thanks.
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Originally posted by Setekh
TopAce, it's not an easy thing to strictly moderate all posts on a thread growing as fast as that. :)
I would add this REALLY carefully:
This thread may grow as fast.
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Yes, well, it's here now ;)
Couple of points:
The PA crowd was right, this is alot like the NMA thing. The man hasn't even designed the game, let alone produced a product. He's stated an intention to pursue the license.
If you haven't played a Derek Smart game, for godssakes, go at least download a demo or pick it up on ebay and SEE if hte reviews are ****. I just made a game, reviews can be a bit misleading if all you look at is the score, and even then, if it truly is niche, the reviewer might just say "it's not Unreal, so screw this, it sucks." Form your own opinion about his ability to make games.
He won't be able to tell us much (except maybe as second hand info) about MVE or remaining inventory. He's looking to acquire the IP for the game, so he can make another game. Try and keep the other stuff in its own little box ;)
Other than that, I am interested in hearing more :)
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Originally posted by TopAce
I would add this REALLY carefully:
This thread may grow as fast.
There's a reason why that thread grew so fast; there were a lot of posts in there which did not really serve a useful purpose.
Get the hint? ;)
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Uhhh... sorry :nervous:
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I'd be very interested to hear Derek's plans for the game and whether or not Voilition will be involved or consulted, even if it's just for the storyline.
What i'm most concerned about is Freespace 3 having lots of 'planetary' missions that were mentioned by Derek, i wouldn't like to see Freespace 3 be a planetary FPS style game. I would be interested to see a few missions though where you can fly through a planet's atmosphere, bombing military installations etc. Could you clear this up Derek, by 'planetary' did you mean FPS missions or bombing installations missions?
Finally i'd just like to wish you good luck in making the game if you get the rights, and i hope that the end result is a game worthy to carry the name Freespace.
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Are the same people making it that are made your other games?
Or is someone else going to have a part in?
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Mmh, well, Derek has stated quite clearly that he won't discuss anything until he gets the license, so I doubt you'll get any answer there, sadly.
There's also the fact that you're asking questions about stuff he has already replied to: he said he's gonna try and get in touch with Volition, if he can, great, if not, never mind ( I don't feel like searching for the exact quote, burried in those hundreds of posts ).
For exemple.
Incidently, that's why I think he should set up some page where he would expose some of his plans, so he doesn't have to repeat himself over and over again :p
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Originally posted by Corhellion
Seeing as how I've been a FS follower for some time (since it was first released) I can see both sides of the fence. The people who enjoy your games, and haven't played FS, want you to continue doing what you've done with your games. However, FS and FS2, are different. The game is story driven, you can't have the game without knowing what happens, every little thing needs to be considered. And I read that you are (or have) contacted Volition to see if you can acquire the notes from the original writers and developers of FS. Which is excellent news, my only fear is that something little would be left out...and we'd be left hanging.
Now...before I go flying off the handle at some of your...recent...ideas let me make this clear as anyone can. Without using caps-lock:
1: Anti-fighter and Anti-cap ship beams are a must for FS3.
Reason: The GTVA made beams to counter the Lucifers super shield, which was invulnerable to all known conventional weapons in FS1. (Although Inferno *check the mods in the main forum index* has cap-ship torpedos...but it's a mod...therefore doesn't count as canon, but it shows that beams and torps are a deadly combination...just a heads up.)
2: It's a flight sim game. no joystick support and you're crippling the space-sim genre even more than it is so far.
3: Use help from us. The FS community. Most of us, live, eat and sleep FS1 and FS2. Not using us would be like not asking Volition for help with the main idea. (it'd also give you an idea as to what the buyers and gamers want in the next (final maybe?) installment.)
Now, I for one, am thankful that FS3 might be a reality...just...use the resources that we have...and build upon that...don't ruin one of the best games ever.
Continuing from where Corhellion left off, here are some other essential aspects of FreeSpace.- The player should not be the centre of attention. While playing an important role in-mission, the player should rarely be mentioned outside of the mission. You're just some no-name pilot who happens to be able to fly better than your wingmen.
- Most missions should include surprises so they don't unfold exactly like in the mission briefing. Good examples of this from FS2 are the Bosch capture attempt (the one where the Psamtik is lost) and the mission where you find Bosch hiding out on an asteroid.
- The Shivans' motives should be mysterious. Exterminating the Terrans and the Vasudans shouldn't be a high priority for them, because they're not really a threat. The Terrans and the Vasudans are like cockroaches which the Shivans step on when they get the opportunity. But as the Capella supernova clearly showed, the Shivans have better things to do than hunt down every last bug.
- Ignore the numskulls who complain that the loose ends from FS2 need to be tied up. We wouldn't still be discussing Admiral Bosch, the Ancients, and the Capella supernova if [V] had explained everything. When writing the story, leave some elements ambiguous and unresolved. And whatever you do, leave Bosch out of FS3.
- Powerful capital ships which should be more than capable of defending themselves. Nobody would build them if they weren't useful. A lone bomber shouldn't even be a threat to a corvette.
- Wingmen chatter. 'Nuff said.
- Sense of desperation. The Shivans should always have the upper hand with the GTVA just barely managing to stave off annihilation.
- The Shivans cannot be beaten. In both FS1 and FS2, the GTVA took far heavier casualties than the Shivans did. The best the GTVA can hope for is a marginal defeat rather than a total one.
As for my idea for the FS3 plot, here's the condensed version: the GTVA builds a subspace portal to reopen the Delta Serpentis--Earth jump node. They send a probe through and find Earth completely destroyed. The GTVA loses contact with the probe and then a Shivan destroyer passes through the subspace portal, with more Shivans on the way. The rest of the game is then spent trying to regain control of the system so the portal can be closed or destroyed.
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Wow those other threads grew fast! :eek: Too much stuff to read all of it. Anyone got one sentence on how it all went?
Now, on the subject at hand. It would be nice to know if DS would be willing to listen to us in the future (or at least not ignore us) if he did start to make FS. I would have a problem if he got FS and really did not pay any attention to HLP about the game.
Besides that, as long as the game is good and the story comes from the people who wrote FS 1 and FS 2 I'm cool with FS 3 being made.
But, if it was a perfect world HLP would be making FS3. :D
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Nico:
God help him there, I sure hope Volition's a part of it.
I can't bring myself to comprehend what's happening, FS3...
I don't know if I want to...
anyway that's all I had to say
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Oh and please, I beg of you with every part of me.
DS, leave out the SUPER WONDERFUL Capships please.
FS should be about the player making the difference, not the BFGreen beam and the Jugernaughts.
Although they would be cool tatictly,
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For what it's worth, I am whole-heartedly against this on the principle that I don't like Derek Smart as a person.
I wouldn't care if he was the sole creator of Halo, Content removed. // Sandwich
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Originally posted by an0n
For what it's worth, I am whole-heartedly against this on the principle that I don't like Derek Smart as a person.
I wouldn't care if he was the sole creator of Halo, Content removed. // Sandwich
Not an appropriate post for this thread.
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As long as they hire some of the same writers and artists FS3 should be allright.
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Y'know Sek, since it seems impossible for a lot of people to not post something without a snide comment, maybe you could do this IRC-style.
Usually when there is an IRC interview with, say Bioware, the whole channel is +m, and people have to query/msg their question/contribution to one of the + or @ people on the channel (The moderators) who then paste it into the channel.
Of course this means the mods could get pummeled to death with PM's... so on second thoughts it might not be such a hot idea...
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I wasn't being snide. I was simply stating my opinion.
And my opnions are well-founded.
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Originally posted by kv1at3485
Not an appropriate post for this thread.
So, we can't even express our opinions anymore in this thread? Sorry dude, but I wholeheartedly agree with an0n.
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Well the last bit of you post could have done with a bit more... tact :)
There is a line where stuff stops being opinion and becomes merely dissage...
But I understand... the shock of that announcement makes it tricky to stay frosty.
We should learn from the Bioware guys - They get loads of crap thrown at them whenever the change anything in NWN, but they always keep their tempers. I'm always impressed at how they keep their cool.
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Just try and leave the personal attacks out of it please.
There's more than enough going on around here without having to worry about that as well. I'm not saying you can't hold the opinion - just please keep it to yourself.
If you have second thoughts about whether you can control yourself - then leave this thread.
Setekh has already said it, please keep it in mind. None of us want to have to start having a go at people over this - but we're not above it if this can't be kept civil.
That's all, with that in mind. Please do continue on topic :)
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[edited by myself 'cause I'm better than that...]
EDIT: whoops...didn't see your post Kalfirwhatnot...
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This thread is intended to be just what it says it is: a dialogue, on FreeSpace 3 - what shape it may take, the issues of licensing, etc
That's what this thread is about.
I wouldn't care if he was the sole creator of Halo, he's still a dick (IMO).
That is not an issue about what shape Freespace 3 takes, its not an issue of licensing, its not even about the game. Its just abuse, and thats not appropriate.
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I think it's a legitimate concern for people who buy his game in what form he'll offer support it. From what I see from his posts and behavior (both on and off HLP) I'm not too enthusiastic on that issue. Tiara and an0n were probably concerned in that sense too. :p
Anyway, if you're offering a game, be nice to customers.
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Originally posted by Tiara
So, we can't even express our opinions anymore in this thread? Sorry dude, but I wholeheartedly agree with an0n.
The opinion ain't the problem. Heck, I think I'm safe in saying that almost everybody here agrees with that opinion to a greater or lessor extent, but we're trying to keep it civil, and that weren't entierly civil :)
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Okay. Here's a question I've been mulling over which is one that should be answered now rather than later.
"Mr Smart. You claimed several times that it was a case of you getting the licence or the franchise dying. In that light would you step aside should Volition express a desire to purchase the license themselves in order to develop FS3?"
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Please stick to the topic.
I've asked Tiara and an0n not to bring their personal feelings about Derek into this - that should be an end to it. It doesn't need cross discussion amongst yourselves.
This matter needs to be resolved. Going off topic or posting unconstructively does not help that to happen.
Therefore as I said - please stick to the topic at hand as Setekh posted it. Not what an0n or Tiara posted. Not what you feel personally about Dereks personality.
Now, there's lots of other reasonable content in this thread. Might I suggest you make use of that instead?
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Well, IMO, and in light of what I've read an feel about FreeSpace, I've got an answer to Mr. Smart question in Adrenaline Vault's forum, which is if I would buy FS3 if he was to develop it.
My answer would be no. Why ? Due to the fact that FS1 and 2 were arcade space shootern with all the things that it implies (such as unrealistic physics engine, no ground mission and such, for exemple). As Mr. Smart said, he would use his own engine to run this game :
From Derek Smart on Avault
Simple really. We developed a bunch of new tools, technologies - especially a brand new graphics engine - etc for UCE2E. Since I decided to not do that game, those technologies were going to be absorbed into the Battlecruiser based MMO title. This would free us up to do the MMO title, finish up the XBox title in tandem and be done with that type of gaming, since the MMO game would be the only game we focus on from late 2005 and onward. The idea about doing FS3 was that because of these new technologies (including a new GUI based on the new DX9 built-in UI tools set), a clean slate in the graphics and UI arena, coupled with my extensive AI, dynamics etc, was enough to do an action game, not just Freespace. Thats the action game I would have done, had Dreamcatcher not sprung that whole thing on me during the late Battlecruiser Generations (which became UC) Beta, since I didn't have enough time to really strip it into a full blown action game
As it is, there's one question I'd like to ask : Why make a powerful engine if you have to strip it later ? Wouldn't it be more time-efficient to go directly into an action game engine instead of developing a simulation engine then strip it later into an action engine ?
Because, after all, when people think of FreeSpace, they think of an action game, not a simulation game, when there's no need to modelize the interior of a spaceship.
As it is, if you read this, Mr. Smart, I do hope that you don't take this criticism badly, and fervently hope that if you do manage to acquire the FreeSpace licence, you'll do a game that will be a proud part of the FreeSpace continuity.
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To be fair, our opinions of Smart have a ****load to do with the issue of FS3 and its possible development.
The V-Gods ignored us, and that worked fine. We did our thing, they did their thing and as long as we didn't bother them they let us do what we liked to the game.
But Derek won't ignore us. And we'll have to deal with his caustic personality.
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It seems that we cannot stay out from flaming. Amen.
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an0n, I appreciate what you're saying but calling him names won't solve anything. Not here at least. If you need to - please find another forum to do it at.
Understand that we're all thats left. HLP is the last stop - Volition Watch is gone. Certain obligations come with that and - no matter how you feel - we have to keep as even a keel as we can here. That's all.
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So we should just ignore {him} because he's making a half-assed FS3?
Who are you? Chamberlain?
Content edited. I'm not Chamberlin. Neither is Kalfireth. Behave. // Sandwich
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Nope. He just wants you to stop baiting the guy, so we can try to have a half-decent conversation with him. Who knows, maybe if we stop flaming and start discussing instead, we can have access to what he intends to do exactly with the game, and tell him if we would buy his game, which was the question that started it all.
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Try and pay attention to what I said please? I said that we shouldn't call him names. Not here at least.
Nowhere did I say he should ignored. Put forth a logical arguement, conversation, debate or whatever. Fine.
Calling him names. Not fine.
Get it?
Now please try and get back to the topic at hand. I'm getting tired of having to explain things that I thought were quite obvious.
Edit: Genryu has it right. Conversation will get us everywhere. If people come here from outside the community - including him - and see petty insults being hurled around, I wouldn't be suprised if they drew conclusions that the FS community was not worth listening to.
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Go read The Thread.
He could start a flame-war in the middle of the goddamn ocean.
Content removed. Remind me to tell you about a pot and a kettle I once knew. // Sandwich
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So much for aggressively moderating this thread.
Yes, you think he's an asshat because of your view of his behavior. Consider your own and how you might appear to also be an asshat.
We're asking you nicely to not do this, make it constructive, be the "intelligent" fan community we all just told the whole internet that you were.
We cannot get anywhere if this continues. I personally would like to hear some constructive conversation on the subject we all hold near and dear to our hearts rather than infantile name calling.
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It's true. It's the whole reason this thing started in the first place. Virtually any other company/guy/invester would most likely even have our approval. But the single reason this whole riot started was him. he is the focal point of this issue besides Freespace itself.
EDIT: See, no swearing. Posted my opinion on this topic in a civil manner.
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The internet can blow me. And we're not going to get anywhere anyway.
It is my personal opinion that Derek Smart is- Content removed. We KNOW your personal opinions, and regardless of whether we agree with you or not, regardless of whether you are right or wrong, they will NOT be expressed in this thread. // Sandwich
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Eugh.
Look, this can be done the easy way or the hard way. The easy way? It gets talked out and everyone has their constructive and mature say in proceedings for as far as that is possible.
The hard way? I start getting trigger happy and I know that won't get us any progress in this matter. Nobody at this forum wants to start revoking posting privlages, banning, locking threads and such. But if it means we can sort this out like adults and actually make some progress then I promise you we're not above it.
I implore everyone to come back after they've cooled down a bit and considered whether it's really worth continueing down this road.
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Okay, start a new forum. Give only the Admins and Derek posting privellages.
Then you can pick out valid and concise thoughts on the matter and discuss them with him.
I bet you it'll all end in tears.
Content edited. Good idea, though. // Sandwich
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If that was also aimed at me;
Originally posted by Tiara
EDIT: See, no swearing. Posted my opinion on this topic in a civil manner.
If not, sorry. :p
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On the subject of planet-based combat (FPS or atmospheric flying) why would the GTVA have any need to go planetside, Shivans live in zero-g environments so why would they have any need to be on a planet?
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we should not forget who we are we are proud mempers of Freespace comminity.
Not proud mempers of Asshole comminity
And does Flaming help? No it doesn't it makes only things worse
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MicroPsycho
lets not get into that subject, please
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...
Let's get back on-topic.
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I thought we were?
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There isn't an HLP chatroom is there?
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Yes
irc.sorcery.net #nodewar
It's technically NW, but everyone hangs there.
Kam and Joey have ops, so you could, in theory, use that.
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In topic and not flaming, if you prefer :p
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I wouldn't say that Volition ever ignored the community. They sat back, watched with interest and let things develop. Some members of the community were asked to help with designing FreeSpace 2, and the community helped Volition by spreading the word about how great a game FreeSpace was after Interplay decided to drop the advertising. We also showed up to develop the missions which justified the release of the "Space Sim of the Year Edition." The late-blooming nature of FreeSpace 2 was due to the COMMUNITY and good REVIEWS spreading the word, where Interplay failed in its marketing or distribution. I also firmly believe that FreeSpace 2's ultimate sales are grossly understated because those numbers were only for the initial few months...not for the "bargainware" units that Interplay continued to sell for YEARS. If there wasn't such a demand in the market (caused by the fans supporting this title long after Interplay and Volition moved on to other projects), there would have been no re-release -- or Derek Smart wanting to buy the license rather than making his own.
From what I've seen of Derek, he doesn't CARE what his fans think. He makes games for himself, for his own reasons, and with his own design. And he doesn't take criticism well. Which is why I think that in the long run, if (a) Derek Smart is successful in obtaining the license and (b) Derek Smart actually develops and publishes the game (BOTH of which are uncertain, contingent and unknown future events), this will be the end of the vibrant FreeSpace community as we know it (even if it's a bit small FIVE years later). Even if Derek doesn't sue to shut HLP down, his character is not suited to *constructively* building a community --- only in flaming it down. There is a reason Derek Smart flamewars are legendary. And I'd sad to see this community getting pulled apart over even Derek's *interest* in getting the FreeSpace property.
If Interplay's undergoing a fire sale of its IP and this community starts to get actively involved again, there MAY be a hope for FreeSpace 3 independently of Derek Smart. Yes, flaming Derek Smart isn't helpful. Neither is being rude. Even if he seems to be ASKING for it. But rolling over to the first buyer doesn't make sense. Hold out for a better deal.
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That's pretty much what I said, but needlessly padded out.
Volition ignored us. Content removed. Again. :rolleyes: An0n, if vB supported thread-specific banning, you'd be long gone. // Sandwich
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STOP IT!!!!
Could the mods start deleting some post...
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They're doing the smart thing and hoping it'll die down on its own.
See, if they start deleting posts it gives people something more to rebel against.
Go ahead. Make my day. :devil: // Sandwich
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Damnit Anon, your in too good of a mood today...
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Originally posted by Zarathud
I wouldn't say that Volition ever ignored the community. They sat back, watched with interest and let things develop. Some members of the community were asked to help with designing FreeSpace 2, and the community helped Volition by spreading the word about how great a game FreeSpace was after Interplay decided to drop the advertising. We also showed up to develop the missions which justified the release of the "Space Sim of the Year Edition." The late-blooming nature of FreeSpace 2 was due to the COMMUNITY and good REVIEWS spreading the word, where Interplay failed in its marketing or distribution. I also firmly believe that FreeSpace 2's ultimate sales are grossly understated because those numbers were only for the initial few months...not for the "bargainware" units that Interplay continued to sell for YEARS. If there wasn't such a demand in the market (caused by the fans supporting this title long after Interplay and Volition moved on to other projects), there would have been no re-release -- or Derek Smart wanting to buy the license rather than making his own.
From what I've seen of Derek, he doesn't CARE what his fans think. He makes games for himself, for his own reasons, and with his own design. And he doesn't take criticism well. Which is why I think that in the long run, if (a) Derek Smart is successful in obtaining the license and (b) Derek Smart actually develops and publishes the game (BOTH of which are uncertain, contingent and unknown future events), this will be the end of the vibrant FreeSpace community as we know it (even if it's a bit small FIVE years later). Even if Derek doesn't sue to shut HLP down, his character is not suited to *constructively* building a community --- only in flaming it down. There is a reason Derek Smart flamewars are legendary. And I'd sad to see this community getting pulled apart over even Derek's *interest* in getting the FreeSpace property.
If Interplay's undergoing a fire sale of its IP and this community starts to get actively involved again, there MAY be a hope for FreeSpace 3 independently of Derek Smart. Yes, flaming Derek Smart isn't helpful. Neither is being rude. Even if he seems to be ASKING for it. But rolling over to the first buyer doesn't make sense. Hold out for a better deal.
I wrote something similiar on Nodewar(or Penguinbomb, if you prefer): He would have been more friendly if we had been, too.
We attacked his idea of buying the FS licence from the start(not without a reason, though) and we did behave badly.
Things seem to get (a slightly) calmer now. At least this is how I feel it.
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Content removed. Sorry I wasn't able to edit it into civility. :rolleyes:// Sandwich
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Admins, wasn't this thread supposed to be heavily moderated?
It's starting to sound exactly like the previous one minus a few words...
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Alright, on topic:
Derek: I've seen quotes from you saying you would remove beam weapons and joystick support from FS3, now I appreciate you may be trying to put your own spin on the franchise but why remove features that the main fanbase has found to be so attractive in the game? Everyone raved the first time they saw the beams, and truly great flight sims (with atmosphere or otherwise) supported a joystick.
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He said that this was not true...
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He also said that he was trying to rile up the people who flamed him at the time he said that. Seems he managed to do it, btw. As I said, seeing that at least one side need to calm down, why don't we try first ? Nothing to lose at the moment after all.
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I want a pony. With Shivan Beam cannons.
EDIT: Actually I don't. I'm currently wondering why the hell I would want a pony. I mean, what do they do? Eat grass and crap everywhere... Stilll, the Beam cannons could have all sorts of uses! Could cook my damned dinner faster for starters...
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Originally posted by vyper
..
Derek: I've seen quotes from you saying you would remove beam weapons and joystick support from FS3, now I appreciate you may be trying to put your own spin on the franchise but why remove features that the main fanbase has found to be so attractive in the game? Everyone raved the first time they saw the beams, and truly great flight sims (with atmosphere or otherwise) supported a joystick.
Main proof: If someone makes a screenshot about FS2, there is beam cannon on it.
I was trying to be an exception, but even I find them so nice that I cannot resist touching the Prinst Screen.
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Originally posted by jdjtcagle
He said that this was not true...
Hard to find these things out right now. :blah:
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Originally posted by jdjtcagle
He said that this was not true...
He also says he's got a PhD......
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well give me proof he doesn't...
All I'm saying, that's his answer
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Originally posted by Kalfireth
Eugh.
Look, this can be done the easy way or the hard way. The easy way? It gets talked out and everyone has their constructive and mature say in proceedings for as far as that is possible.
The hard way? I start getting trigger happy and I know that won't get us any progress in this matter. Nobody at this forum wants to start revoking posting privlages, banning, locking threads and such. But if it means we can sort this out like adults and actually make some progress then I promise you we're not above it.
I implore everyone to come back after they've cooled down a bit and considered whether it's really worth continueing down this road.
WHAT THE ****ING HELL?!? GET SOME BALLS, MAN.
Do I have your attention now? Great. So, you see, your goal is to keep it clean, right, and not have a bis-repetita of the other thread? Ok, so look on the bottom left corner of your screen. There's an admin rollout menu. The rules for this topic have been clearly stated, right? People's right to express their opinion is preserved by the fact that there's that other topic, right?
Now get to work. Or give me admins rights and I'll do it for you if you're scared :rolleyes:.
For god's sake.
edit: added the rolleye smiley so it's even more insulting and Thundy decides to move his ass ( he's gonna make me regret this, but something has to be done :p ).
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Well said Nico...
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I agree Nico, this thread needs to be very heavily moderated. If Anon (i dont like singling you out but you are doing this the most often) and others continue flaming Smart then we're not gonna get anywhere at all. In fact, its probable that if he sees posts insulting him on a thread that was meant to be insult free he will follow through on his threat and not consult the HLP community about anything to do with Freespace 3. If whenever he comes to this thread, which was made to talk things out sensibly, all he sees is people shouting "We wont buy the game coz Derek Smart's a dick" I wouldnt blame him for not talking to us. Your actions reflect badly on the whole community. You insulting the guy just makes him further believe that this community isn't worth the effort of talking to, if you don't like him deal with it somewhere else and don't ruin the reputation of the entire community because of your personal beliefs.
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Admins, delete is your friend here ;)
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REMOVED:
Here I am preaching tolerance and I put this kind of negative posting. Gah. Idiot I am.
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Yeah. Clean up this thread. I want to actually see what he'd do if [V] said they wanted the rights too. Cause then half of his arguement goes out of the window.
After all who knows the plotline of FS3 better than them?
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Suggestion: If I may?
Look, the man stated he won't discuss it until he gets the license, if he gets it. He's already probably not interested in a public discussion after the last one.
So my suggestion, get a bunch of FAQ's together from the board. Then, in the event that he DOES get the license, open up a ONE-ON-ONE interview and address a few selected questions.
He'd probably be more open to a one-on-one with someone from here who's an authority, (ie. Staff member of high standing) then another open discussion.
Just a suggestion.
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Setekh should have an interview with him :nod:
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Setekh. A perfect choice for the interviewer. Good call Jd.
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I concur. :yes:
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Originally posted by HeX
Suggestion: If I may?
Look, the man stated he won't discuss it until he gets the license, if he gets it. He's already probably not interested in a public discussion after the last one.
Since then he has returned here to post though.
Got suggestion none the less.
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He's returned to post yes, but he said he doesn't want to discuss his PLANS for Freespace 3. In other words, what he intends to do with it.
Hence why I say wait, see, if he gets them, interview.
If he doesn't, nothing to worry about right?
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Steak gets my vote.
We need someone cold blooded for it.
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You know, I decided I would take Setekh's advice. I went, I slept on it. Then I got to thinking, what if he gets it and makes a game worthy of the Freespace name?
Now I know, everyone goes on the BC series as an example. But let's think about it. Battlecruiser was a massive, open ended game designed to be a simulation of running everything from a battlecruiser down to an infantry squad. That's a HUGE difference from Freespace where you're worried about your fighter/bomber, and the mission at hand.
Everyone bases it off of Derek's other games. But those games were completely different from the way one plays Freespace.
And he's already stated, numerous times, too numerous to count, that he's not planning on making a Freespace: Battlecruiser. He wants to make it like the original, an action space game. Not a simulation, not a massive open universe, Freespace as it's meant to be played.
But what of the graphics you shout? Well what of them? Universal Combat, Derek's latest incarnation, was actually not bad graphically. I play it. But he's stated over and over that the graphics had to suffer because of the scope and size of the game.
The interface was complex. Well yes it was bloody complex. But that's for running a warship down to the intricacies of crew management and systems control. Where in Freespace do you ever need to worry about more then you, your primaries, your secondaries, and the best target to blow the **** out of or save?
If Derek does get the license, he gets it. But I say let's see what he can make. Hey, if it doesn't measure up then it doesn't measure up. We go back to what the people of HLP had dedicated themselves to doing knowing Freespace 3 wasn't going to be made. We go back to making Freespace mods that kick all kinds of ass.
Freespace 3 flops, well fine. Most of us were carrying on like it was never to be anyway.
If it turns out it kicks ass...then we've gained a new chapter in the Freespace universe. Sure the story may not be by V, but what one of the HLP mod stories WAS? Does it matter? If it's a good story in the Freespace universe, won't we all love it anyway? If it's a bad story, we go on with our projects and make our own, like we always have.
Yes I know, Eishtmo posted something similar to what I've just said, but I wouldn't be HeX if I didn't spit out my thoughts. :)
Take them as they are or not. I leave that up to you. :)
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very Well said Hex :) :yes:
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He's using the UC engine and stuff, you know. He already said he's just recycling stuff he already had for most of it.
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And it's already been stated on his forums and elsewhere that when he made UC he had to keep the graphics on a lower level then the engine was capable because of the vast size of the game.
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I know nothing about UC's engine or about its strengths and weaknesses but isn't Freespace (3) deserving of its' very own engine?
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well I believe hex is correct, he will probrably make it fine, finger crossed, but we should be glad someone want to continue it. I just hope they make it really modable. if he makes it.
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That's it I'm getting the demo...
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He don't have licence..yet so
if he evergoing get licence
so why you guys arguin about FS3 yet ;)
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Well we see when the time comes,I'll just wish him all the best.
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Now we're talking. :)
Get the demo at least ladies and gentalmen! If it blows, hey it blows. Any developer could have made it and had it suck.
If it rocks your world, well then golly gee GRAB IT!
I mean hell, what have we got to loose? Freespace 3? Like Eishtmo said, we'd already resigned ourselves to it never being made.
If Derek Smart gets it, let's see what he can do! He says he's a fan, he has the resources...
Hell if he makes a dud at least we have a shiney new engine to play with! :D
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According the the people I talked to and the reviews about UC, the space combat part was the best part of the game so...
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I enjoyed it. Then again I also play Lock On Modern Air Combat and that requires nearly a piloting license just to take off. :D
I'll say one thing, the man has his scale down. I took a walk on the hull of my ship and was a speck compared with it.
Not that I'm expecting hull walking in Freespace but hey, being a fighter next to a massive warship could be fun.
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Thread closed until I finish sweeping it clean.
*glares*
That is all.
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Re-opened.
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Good, think I'll go delete that one post of my own. Too negative.
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Negative is fine, but rudeness and beyond is not.
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Originally posted by Nico
...
You know what? I gave you people the benefit of the doubt for once. The biggest mistake I've made here, ever.
I hoped people could be mature. That when I got back from a night out I'd pop on here and make sure things were being talked out as they should be.
Instead I find this ****.
Clearly some of you are incapable of reading - or if you can read you think that we'll pretend not to pay any attention to you. That's your mistake. Fortunately for an0n, Sandwich has moderated this thread before I got to read it - so he doesn't get banned.
As for the rest of you who're involved, including you Nico, consider yourselves on "final warning". I've had enough of trying to keep things calm when all I get back to is this kind of thing. It makes me sad, it makes me angry. If I see any more of it it'll make one of you banned.
You've all had your chance to be treated like adults. My mistake was to trust some of you to do the right thing. This mistake will not be made again.
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Oy.
Vey.
Methinks we all should get out for a day or two, doing some exercices, so that EVERYBODY, the flame-baiters like the moderators, can think straight. Otherwise, we're going to sink the community faster that anything else could.
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I agree. Let's all take a breather, relax, think about something else for a while. We're all gonna just get worked up and nobody needs that right lads and ladies?
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Sound advice. HLP (as a site) needs to sort out various positions to this. Obviously this gives us more than enough to do without having to worry about the apparently needed moderation of some community members.
Believe me when I say that what needs to be done shall be done to keep things on an even keel here. This means that - at the end of the day - it is the users who will lose out. Nobody wants this - but if forced - that is the way it shall be.
To that end, if everyone would take a step back - take a breath - get a glass of water and some sleep... whatever works. Things may continue to be more productive.
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Better yet, organise a freespacefest :p
Got a working server ? :)
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Or fly long two hour escort missions. Those always helps.
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Ok, I downloaded the demo...
Now being perfectly honest without trying to flame. I wouldn't pay for it, it wasn't impressive at all... I don't know what Fs3 (if he gets it) would be like. But it was not any fun at all. Sorry Derek but even know you're doing this for money and don't care where your taking this. I have to say, why can't you make a new BC. More people would be happy :(
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Thought you meant you were going to get the demo of Freespace 3 when it came out.
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I'm actually talking about UC :)
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Yes I see that. Well you can't base an assumption on UC. UC is a vastly different game and style from Freespace 3. And like I said, he already said he wouldn't make a Freespace like Battlecruiser.
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Well anyway, I stated in another thread that I will download the Fs3 demo. So it really doesn't matter.
Derek, please come back
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Well I think everyone should join the nodewar irc chat about this, or use the NW forums since it has less to worry about in terms of moderation.
Just a thought. Keep HLP for what we actually do - fs2.
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Fs2?
correction:
Freespace, period.
and If the original V writers don't write this plot, I will not accept it as canon. Fs3 is no more canon than a BWO without :V: writers.
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Let's be honest, when was the last time someone modded fs1?
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I don't know, but It's not only modding we do here. This IS the last freespace community. This is where both games lay ;)
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This sounds crazy, but how about a main hall that's consistent with the design of the ship you're on. Has anyone else noticed that there's virtually no conceivable way that the window in the Aquitaine's main hall could be where it is? It's little but it bugs the hell out of me.
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:lol:
:welcome:
To the HLP Ford Prefect
:)
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The second I start reading A Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy, everyone starts naming themselves after characters! :lol:
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:lol:
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So when did HLP become Fascist Italy?
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Roughly 24 hours ago.
I am not questioning the authorita of the state...
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I don`t like or dislike Derick Smart, I don`t know the guy, haven`t purchased any of his games.. Only recently heard about him trying to buy the rights to freespace here..
I heard something disturbing at another forum and would like to hear the truth, if there is a truth.. Anyway I`m not sure I should even bring this up here because I do, and will abide by the admins ruling..
So i`d prefer to ask a question, but on the other hand I don`t want to cause trouble and start something that may spiral out of control..
So i`ve decided to wait for a while before bringing this to light..
(edit) Umm, it seems it was just a pissing contest for now.. :rolleyes:
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Ask away, with the way things are going, it can't manage to piss off more people that are already pissed off.
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Originally posted by Whitelight
So i`d prefer to ask a question, but on the other hand I don`t want to cause trouble and start something that may spiral out of control..
So i`ve decided to wait for a while before bringing this to light..
Ask on the big Derek Smart thread. If it sounds like a flame people will tell you.
In fact all discussion should really be on that thread. The only thing anyone should post on this one should be questions.
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Originally posted by Ford Prefect
This sounds crazy, but how about a main hall that's consistent with the design of the ship you're on. Has anyone else noticed that there's virtually no conceivable way that the window in the Aquitaine's main hall could be where it is? It's little but it bugs the hell out of me.
They're holographic displays, meant to mimic the appearance of being glass. It helps for the pilots who get claustrophobic. ;)
It also works a lot better than the 'outdoor patio' idea used on the GTVA Colossus. (Hence the reason why it rarely deployed any fighter wings...)
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I'm going to re-iterate this again. This thread was intended to buy time. I have no intention in the slightest of silencing voices and shutting up valid opinions. But what I think people are missing most in this situation is that the wire we tread is thin, and there is no way to climb back up. I am fully aware of the unlikelihood of redeeming this situation or cultivating a positive relationship with Derek, based on how he has behaved in the past. But I refuse to give up on him here without a moment's hesitation. That is what this thread was for; to provide a chance. Once that chance is exhausted, we go back to our daily lives and we voice ourselves all we want. But this is not something we can turn back on if we go ahead with all the negativity.
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It also works a lot better than the 'outdoor patio' idea used on the GTVA Colossus. (Hence the reason why it rarely deployed any fighter wings...)
Hahahaha! I heard similar things about the failure of the tropical resort concept on the GTD Hades and the strip clubs on the NTF Iceni. :lol:
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I haven't read the whole thread but here is my opinion.
I think that idealogically, this game "belongs" to every Freespace fan out there, especially to the people at HLP, since they stuck out the longest.
In his arrogance (thats appropriate to say, the man admitted it), Derek Smart thinks that Freespace "belongs" to him and that he can do with it as he wants. This is wrong, and I'm angered by the "like it or piss off" attitude. If it comes to putting your own "creative vision" on the product when making a sequel, anyone here has as much right to do that as he does. And if the vast majority of the FS community, and the gaming commuity in general, thinks that he is unable to do the game justice, thats ought to be the end of it.
The other point, and I'm sure that it has been brought up before, is that I just don't think he can pull it off. His track record is less than stellar. It seem to me that he has something to prove, and that all his games have been more-or-less the same vision. It also seems to me that he will keep trying to implement this vision until he succseeds (sp?), and that Freespace 3 will be no different.
To make an analogy, I have no problem with Irrational making Tribes 3, because:
a) They seem to care deeply for what the fan-base wants.
b) They are world-class developers, and the likelyhood that they will be able to deliver a game worthy of the name Tribes is very good.
My third point, is that Im just not very fond of Derek Smart as person. If the above two criteria were satisfied, I could maybe handle it. But as we all know, Derek Smart is not that nice a guy. And the prospect that we as a community will have to snivel and beg for every minor alteration to his vision does not sit well with me.
No one knows more about or cares more about Freespace than the people assembled here. With what right does someone come along and, in direct contravention of everything that we as a community want, propose to make Freespace 3. I'm not saying that HLP has to be consulted over every minor detail, but if we're kicking and screaming, then its rather obvious that Derek Smart's Freespace 3 does not only not have our blessing, but not even our tolerance. And on this point, I think that the majority of the gaming community agrees.
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:nod::yes:
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I hope DSmart doesnt totally ignore us, and I hope if he does buy the license he will consider the fans of the series.
If he screws up, thats life.
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Lonestar
D Smart has stated he will not follow a fanbase or there ideas, meaning he will follow up on his own ideas of how FS3 should be..
I will wait and see where this goes before i`ll spend my money on his creation, hell he just might pull it off and suprise us all.. His track record has been somewhat lacking to say the least..
But first he must get the rights to the game.
(edit) He also stated he`d spend 2m on its creation and 18 months, not really ideal.
Only time will tell so I`ll stay neuteral untill then..
(edit2) He has stated he will try to contact someone at V for any imformation they can give on the storyline, but even if he does follow through, will anyone at V give him any?
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Maybe, but they DO still feel like FreeSpace is their baby...
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My questions:
1) Will there be joystick support? (There should be)
2) Where will the narrative come from? Will it continue the original ideas and concepts, or will it be a quick pull-it-out-the-ass "Hollywood reworking" job that changes things drastically?
3) Are you going to change/kill off/otherwise de-mystify the Shivans?
4) Will you put maximum effort into this project, with the aim of creating a worthy successor to FS1 and 2 and making a game that gamers will want to play, or will it be a money-making exercise, with the result aimed at the Sims/Britney's Dance Crap™ mass market?
5) Will it be moddable to anything like the extent that the two existing games are?
6) Will it be any good???
There we are, I'm done. I don't know Derek Smart, I've never talked to him, and I have no idea what sort of person he is, so I'm not going to comment on his being or not being a tit. :)
All I care about is the game! :hopping:;)
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What about creating a feedback cohordination thread?
That way we might be able to ask things coherently and focus more productively on the thing...
Admins, any thought on it?
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I got one question...
Will FS3 contain a fred3 editor if D Smart is at the helm?
(edit) if he spends 2 mill and 18 months on its creation I would think not.
Anyway it would have to get good reviews before i`d buy it..
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FS3 in any incarnation would have to seriously eclipse FS2, IMHO. FS2 outshone FS1 in so many respects but critically retained the fundamental features that made the game work so well. Those features and the details have been discussed umpteen times before, so there's no reason to do so again.
As I said in the fundraising thread, I've tried to play both BC3K and BCMil, and found them seriously lacking in so many departments. 10 out of 10 for ambition, but minus several thousand for very poor implementation. I couldn't work out how to do anything in those games!
FreeSpace 2 is the game that catapulted me onto the internet community scene. It was the inspiration for my own sci-fi ideas, the sole occupant of hours upon hours of my time when I could have been doing other things far more important. That I would be so fond and protective of such a masterpiece of the space combat genre is perfectly understandable, and I'm sure I'm not the only one here who thinks along those lines.
HLP is the last major bastion of a unified FS community. Yes, there are smaller outposts and rogue fans here and there, but only at HLP do we have a collection of thousands of people all dedicated to FS and its many facets.
I intend to do what I can to keep FreeSpace in the way that it found me: exciting, exhilirating, beautiful, fun, easy to play and easy to mod.
FS2 is the ONLY game I can mod. The structure of the game files, once known is so amazingly logical. My thanks go out to all those who made FS2 modding one of the easiest tasks in the world. You know who you are. This moddability of FS and FS2 is, I believe, the single thing that has kept the game and franchise alive. If not for the incredible time and effort spent on things like TBP, Inferno, FSPort, WCS and the like, would DS have seriously considered obtaining the license to, let's be honest, a defunct franchise that's been dead commercially for five years.
With DS in mind, I think that whilst he might have some good ideas, his approach to the problem is lacking. He strikes me as unprofessional in his conduct, sloppy in his implementation and in some cases, overreactional. With these in mind, along with the track record of the Battlecruiser series, I personally do not believe he has what it takes to make a worthy FreeSpace 3. Such a game would need to be as playable as the first two, as easy to mod, and with graphics at least on par with X2's (as an example).
I know I'm nowhere near 'large' or 'loud' on HLP or within the community in general. I do what I can, but my own abilities are seriously lacking in several areas. To me, the inspiration from chaps like Kazan, Bobbaou, TBP's wonderful team, the SCP gang and the like are what have kept me coming back here time after time. You guys are the pillar that keeps me modding FS2 to create The Swarm War. One day it might just get finished! To you I say 'thank you.' You've kept the community going. I know I've only singled out a very select few as examples, but if I were to mention everyone here who has contributed to FS2 in some superb way, I would be here until doomsday and still would not be finished!
We're mostly agreed that DS is the wrong person for FS3. Who is besides :V:? That is the question we should be asking ourselves. If :V: is unable, for whatever reason, to produce FS3, who can we turn to? Who, in the eyes of the FS community, is 'worthy' of producing a legitimate sequel? Are WE[/b] capable? If we all banded together into a giant project team then maybe. But I have my doubts.
I myself am studying a degree in computing with a view to joining the games industry within the next five years. I know that much will have changed between now and then. I am attending ECTS this year to start on the laborious bridge-building process between myself and developers with a view to obtaining a placement for my third year of Uni (which is a work placement). Until I'm doing things for myself, I shall still support the FS community. I shall still mod. I shall help Kazan with Ferrium in any way I can, even if my contribution is somewhat small. I shall still uphold the virtues of what made FreeSpace 2 the most wonderful game playing experience of my life, and above all, I shall be one of the last people to leave the FS community, and only then it'll be when HLP dies for whatever reason. That doesn't mean I'll stop modding the game - it'll only mean I'll be unable to show off to you lot!
This has been possibly the longest single post I've ever made here, but I think to summarise my message is this:
* DS is wrong for the FS franchise, for several repeated reasons
* The community is, and will always be, strongly united even in the face of diversity of opinions
* We can't let our petty squabbles get in the way of what we're here for: The love of FreeSpace 2 and the modding of said game
One last thing: As I mentioned, I'm off to ECTS at the start of September. If this business hasn't blown over by then, are there any British-based developers you'd like to see make a bid for the FS license? :D
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Wow. Killfrenzy hits the nail right on the head. That's a post to be proud of. I 100% agree with it.
Best of luck getting a foot in the door in the gaming community!
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Shiny! Go for Shiny Entertainment! ;)
Thanks KF, and well said :)
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Originally posted by Lonestar
I hope DSmart doesnt totally ignore us, and I hope if he does buy the license he will consider the fans of the series.
If he screws up, thats life.
*sniff sniff*
smells like Deus Ex: Invisible War
But even the ORIGINAL developers ignored the fans on that one... so who knows what could happen in the hands of another developer. I shudder to think though after watching the Universal Combat videos....
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I don't know about the rest of you, but I read in one of the threads about this somewhere, maybe it was avault...anyway, Mr. Smart muttered something about if you can't be bothered to read a 90 page manual to play his games you shouldn't play his games. When I read this I was aghast, first at the elitism that the statement showed, but what bothers me more is the idea that someone who is supposedly well-educated and has been working in the game industry for a decade or more thinks that people who buy a game, any game, want to read a novel in order to play the game and get any sort of enjoyment out of it. He has forgotten, or more likely never learned, that games are about having fun. To him, as best as I can grasp, a game is an intellectual exercise for his benefit both financially and intellectually instead of something that is met for people pick up and enjoy as a form of recreation, not spend half their off time figuring out how the bejigger works and then find out they don't like or would rather do something else.
I didn't mean this to turn into a rant or anything, but I don't believe that Mr. Smart has anywhere near the experience(or talent, from everthing I've read his desires far outweigh his ability) with big, sparkly action oriented games to be allowed to make Freespace 3. I would rather a more action oriented studio/publisher get the IP and produce FS3 or for things to stay as they are that for Mr. Smart to make a less than stellar version.
I don't care what kind of resources you have available, or what you have already prepared. You cannot make Freespace 3 in 18 months for $500,000 and have it be what it needs or deserves to be. FS3 deserves to be treated as a major big-budget motion picture in all areas, Voice Talent, Graphics, and Audio.
Voice Talent alone would be in the $100,000 range. FS2 had some major Hollywood stars as voice artists(Robert Loggia, Ronny Cox, Kurtwood Smith, and Steven Baldwin), FS3 demands the same calibre of Voice Talent.
Any FS3 that would be produced would also demand top-of-the-line graphics, maybe not HL2 or Doom 3 calibre, but certainly similar to UT2k4.
Sound is yet another area that FS3 would have to excel, having orchestral pieces through out as well as high quality special effects in the same vein as FS2.
FS3 should have a top-notch SP campaign scripted by as much of the original creative staff as possible.
If Mr. Smart can provide these things, then go for it, if he can't, doesn't wish to or seeks to use the FS as a new branding for the same old mediocre software that he is famous for, then he should reconsider and walk away now.
Thank you for listening to my ramble.
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Originally posted by Zarathud
Wow. Killfrenzy hits the nail right on the head. That's a post to be proud of. I 100% agree with it.
Indeed, well said KF:)
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90 pages isn't that long to read. To remember, as in memorizing 90 pages of controls? **** yeah.
And I dunno. Smart's approach to gaming sounds in some ways a lot like my preferred take on, well, a lot of things- just try and stick as many cool functions as possible, if necessary at the expense of all that unnecessary fluff like (in the case of games) pretty graphics, stability, or a simple control scheme.
That said, he's got it waaaay worse than I do, I mostly resist the urge for feature creep once it becomes detrimental, and I don't assume everyone else wants to play games, view models, and mess with machinery that are unnecessarily complicated and only really work if you spend hours tweaking it. The ctrl+alt+a thing still freaks me out.
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Interesting read here http://www.gonegold.com/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=007838
DS makes some interesting comments....
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Thanks guys for agreeing with me. :)
And thanks Zarathud for your good wishes. :) I'll do my best!
I also agree with Lib's detailed points about what FS3 requires: Top graphics, engrossing storyline, high-class voice talent and music scoring. I mean, who here DOESN'T like Admiral Petrarch? :D
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I vote for Freespace: The Real-Time Strategy Game! ;7
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nevermind
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People I'd trust with FS aside from :V:?
That's a tough one... the only people that come to mind are Totally Games (Made the X-Wing series)
There are several companies I would trust with engine and graphics development but they're the only ones I could even slightly trust with the story, but I'd much rather have :V: do it because they MADE the story!
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Alright, I've said my piece in the OTHER thread, but since we're being asked to play nice in this one....
Derek, if you really want to have a chance in hell of pleasing the fandom, you need to do your research. Play the game again. Then check out some of the more popular campaigns out there. Like it or not, this is more or less what we want to play. Please keep that in mind should you get the license. Remember, if you piss off the fans then you won't have anything. We, the fans, made it possible for the FS universe to continue to exist as it is today. We can just as easily break it.
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Make the pain stop...
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what I think is interesting is that ALL of the other fourms I have visited that bring up DS EVERYONE hates him.
Its kinda funny.!!!
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Pain... Stop....
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Originally posted by Inquisitor
Pain... Stop....
Try asprin or alieve should help.
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I can tell FS3's minimum specs are gonna make me cry REGARDLESS of who makes it...
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Does anyone in the fs2 community know anyone that works for THQ? if so i think it would be an idea to try to get THQ to buy the freespace franchise.
1. they could make a shed load of money - if they get V to make it, and release it on Xbox,PS2,Gamecube and PC. There a lot of games that are released on every platform, if V make it for the PC then port it to the consoles, a lot of money can be made - its not just the PC that needs a good space shooter.
2.It wouldnt take long for V to make, they could base their new engine on the work that SCP have done...
3.It would be cheap for such a giant like THQ to buy the liscense.
4.Derek Smart is not the man to make fs3, it will be pants if he makes it...
5.If V made it we could have 32 player, multiplayer insanity, due to modern technology and the wonders of broadband.
feel free to add to this list of why THQ should buy freespase franchise.
IF Derek Smart does make FS3 and ruin it , we should pretend it dont exist and make our own.
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The community should try to acquire any material, plot and sketches left from [V] and any ex worker, especially those who wrote the plot...
This way we can ensure a minumum fidelity level regardless (sort of) who will develop it...
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Originally posted by xenobyte6666
1. they could make a shed load of money - if they get V to make it, and release it on Xbox,PS2,Gamecube and PC. There a lot of games that are released on every platform, if V make it for the PC then port it to the consoles, a lot of money can be made - its not just the PC that needs a good space shooter.
More like: Xenon, Revolution(N5], PS3 and PC;)
those have enough Horse power play any games
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Originally posted by Zarax
sketches left from [V]
Believe me, if there was any way of doing that, they'd be on my desk already, FS3 or not :p
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Not that i underestimate your skills on the task, but has anything ever done in that direction in a community way rather than individual efforts?
Also, we have to consider that the recent issue with DS changed the playground quite a bit, and maybe ways that were closed before now might be open...
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Originally posted by Inquisitor
Pain... Stop....
Well since the recent spacesim thread on Avault hasn't had him show up yet, I'm thinking that we're all safe for the time being.
I personally tried to keep an open mind through this and asked Mr. Smart about his ideas for FS3.
When the ideas include thing such as:
*Fully dynamic, ongoing real time war
*First person 3d mainhalls
I'm seeing a pattern of needless features that can take away from the pacing of a game that is first and foremost an action game.
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Get this...Derek Smart is claiming on the Gone Gold forums (http://www.gonegold.com/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=007838;p=3) (his third post down) that he was just playing "devil's advocate" with us. :devil: The man has no shame...but he does say "no MOD support for a FS3 created by Derek Smart." I think that alone tells the story, folks. :no:
Derek Smart's post in its entirety:
ack! I think I see where the confusion might be. Now that you posted those excerpts and I've had the chance to think about it again, I think I see the confusion.
The first excerpt to Derek Meek (someone who tinkers with the FS2 source code) was in regards to their having access to any new Freespace3 material IF I got the license. Meaning, they've currently got the Freespace2 stuff (which I won't have any intentions of messing with), but they won't be allowed to do any modding and whatnot of Freespace3, using any of my materials if I so choose. And the way to control that is to not release any modding tools to a bunch of folks who spent their time slamming me rather trying to see how everyone wins if a dedicated and supportive (I support my games until the OS they run on, stops working) developer got to make the next Freespace game.
And my follow-up points were not particularly about me, I was playing devil's advocate by reminding them that any other person who grabs the rights to Freespace, can do as they very well please. And that includes preventing anyone from doing anything related to Freespace.
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I seriously thought this thread was over with can someone lock this please :sigh:
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Originally posted by Derek Smart
a bunch of folks who spent their time slamming me rather trying to see how everyone wins if a dedicated and supportive (I support my games until the OS they run on, stops working) developer got to make the next Freespace game.
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
he still doesn't get it!
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he's nothing if not dependable.
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We will see if he will buy the rights... Until then, this thread is useless... Unless competition appears of course ;)
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Ignore it if you don't find it useful. Sheesh.
Anyway, the guy has no clue how to deal with gamers, it's obvious. I reckon we should pin our hopes on someone else bidding, otherwise just forget it.
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He's backpedalling, cos' he got 'words' from Moderators for trying to stifle all ctiticism of his work, that's all :)
......Meaning, they've currently got the Freespace2 stuff (which I won't have any intentions of messing with), but they won't be allowed to do any modding and whatnot of Freespace3, using any of my materials if I so choose
That's interesting reading though :)
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Originally posted by Zarathud
but he does say "no MOD support for a FS3 created by Derek Smart."
Yet it was a conditional sentence.
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Wow. At least the people at GoneGold had relatively more intelligence (and maturity) then the other boards tackling the topic...
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Originally posted by Falcon
I seriously thought this thread was over with can someone lock this please :sigh:
I see no point in continuing a dialogue on FS3 with regards to Derek Smart, however everyone is being civil therefore owning this topic just doesn't seem right. I think people are obssessing themselves with Derek too much as well but nothing is being done in this topic that warrants a closure IMO.
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Needless to say everything about DS and FS3 will be in vain, since Smart will presumably not post any more and will not visit this thread or this entire forum.
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I wasn't actually posting for the benefit of Mr Smart ;)
Seems a reasonable and level headed thread to me, and we are allowed to discuss it ;)
I agree with Lonestar, it doesn't add up to much, but if people really feel the urge, why not? :)
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wow, I'm gone for a few weeks for some exams and miss this whole event. My thoughts have already been posted by most people here, but there is one aspect of this that seems just a bit fishy. Why exactly is he posting these things on internet forums before working out the details with Interplay and getting a publisher for his game? Aren't these business deals generally done secretly and publicized only after they have been carried through?
Anyway, I honestly don't care much what happens with this. If he manages to make this good, we get what we have dreamed of for years, and if it sucks (from the reviews I've seen for his previous games and his ideas for this, this looks very likely), we ignore its existence for our purposes. It's not exactly going to be a commercial hit either way given the relative unpopularity of space sims.
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If he does manage to get the rights, will we know about it?
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Originally posted by Lonestar
I see no point in continuing a dialogue on FS3 with regards to Derek Smart, however everyone is being civil therefore owning this topic just doesn't seem right. I think people are obssessing themselves with Derek too much as well but nothing is being done in this topic that warrants a closure IMO.
They should be obssessing with the SCP :nod:. All the Derek Smart and Freespace 3 talk has poisoined you guys minds. If the mindless obssession contuinues I'll have to brain wash all of you or do something more drastic...... :p
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Originally posted by Setekh
I will edit anyone's post if it contains even remotely inflammatory material.
(http://www.famepharma.com/images/herbigesic.jpg)
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:lol:
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Originally posted by Lonestar
I see no point in continuing a dialogue on FS3 with regards to Derek Smart, however everyone is being civil therefore owning this topic just doesn't seem right. I think people are obssessing themselves with Derek too much as well but nothing is being done in this topic that warrants a closure IMO.
Not to mention that should Derek loose his bid, we still have a large collection of ideas in one place that could be put to good use.
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How do we know if he has the rights or not?
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From gamespy, sectorgame, gaming magazines,avault etc.
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Originally posted by LLivingLarge
How do we know if he has the rights or not?
It'll be on slashdot if he does.
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Everybody seen this? (http://forums.avault.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=3;t=005531;p=3#000074) . It reads to me like DS might be less inclined to buy the license as time goes on...
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I think he is actually using his head!!! YES!!!
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He's concluding that it's not worth the money, which if he concludes that, someone else might/will as well?
Which leaves us back at "no FS3 in our time."
Not sure that's entirely cause for celebration ;)
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He stated that him making the mod was not in everybodies best interest...
But, if Volition would get the hint if they heard the people's support and wishes to :V: to re-hire the original writers and we/ and or I would be VERY interested :D
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Originally posted by Inquisitor
He's concluding that it's not worth the money, which if he concludes that, someone else might/will as well?
Which leaves us back at "no FS3 in our time."
Not sure that's entirely cause for celebration ;)
Well I think that there not being an FS3 is better than one that isn't "FS2 with better graphics," evolution of the design rather than revolution.
There's always other spacesims :)
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Sounds like he received "advices" from someone bigger than him... ;)
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I'll be convinced when makes the announcement one way or the other, and not before.
Still, hopeful news :)
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Originally posted by Krackers87
(http://www.famepharma.com/images/herbigesic.jpg)
:lol: As we all saw, this thread didn't go quite as intended. ;) However, I am quite intrigued by Smart's new shying away from FS3 after all. I'd prefer if he went ahead with his plan of starting a new franchise for his ideas myself - his gameplay style seems so foreign from FS that a new franchise is appropriate.
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Hopefully people can help Mr. Smart along to the proper decision by posting in my new Avault thread here:
http://forums.avault.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=3;t=005542
Be subtlely anti-FreeSpace whenever possible :)
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actualy just be honest, FS3 isn't a very good busness proposition, and if it were it wouldn't be FS3 if the changes he wants so make were made,
and above all we cannot be pleased.
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Originally posted by Ace
Be subtlely anti-FreeSpace whenever possible :)
Another first for the community. ;)
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Originally posted by Setekh
Another first for the community. ;)
:LOL:
And I tried so hard to get a Cancer Monkey title :( ;)
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:p Cancer monkies = :no:. ;)
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hehehehe.... Must admit, after a couple of days....
(http://www.aqsx85.dsl.pipex.com/koko.jpg)
I felt like this guy ;)
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Hmmm, a Command & Conquer style Freespace spinoff...
If DS makes that, I could actually live without guilt.
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I still hoping that EA gets licence, think about Soccer in space
Terrans VS Shivans match ;) you guys would love it
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FreeSpace Drag Racing!!!
or...
Shivan Dance Beat 2367!!
:lol:
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WWF Shivan Celebrity Smackdown! :D
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Originally posted by Holy Imperial Gloriano
I still hoping that EA gets licence, think about Soccer in space
well, you know, you can do that already with current freespace1 or 2. just open FRED, put two nodes on opposite ends of the map, a wing of fighters on one team next to one node and a wing on another team next to the other node, then place a cargo container between the two nodes, give everyone morningstars, and set victory conditions so that if the cargo container reaches one node, one team wins, and if it reaches the other node, the other team wins. Then give everything invulnerable tags, and play in multiplayer.
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that would be fun actualy
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yeah problem is, how do you stop the darn things other than by ramming......and even then, someone just needs to sit in one corner and fire away till it keeps on moving............
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Originally posted by Flipside
WWF Shivan Celebrity Smackdown! :D
If you look in the Freespace 1 CD you can see a video with a Terran trying to fight a Vasudan. That was funny..... :lol:
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Originally posted by Carl
well, you know, you can do that already with current freespace1 or 2. just open FRED, put two nodes on opposite ends of the map, a wing of fighters on one team next to one node and a wing on another team next to the other node, then place a cargo container between the two nodes, give everyone morningstars, and set victory conditions so that if the cargo container reaches one node, one team wins, and if it reaches the other node, the other team wins. Then give everything invulnerable tags, and play in multiplayer.
DUDE, thats so tight! (writes down idea) I think I am going to try that.
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Good idea! :D
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Since daveb has officially proclaimed that Derek Smart will never get ahold of the license, how about we go back to flaming him? No need to waste time on unnecessary pleasantries when we could be doing something more productive.
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Originally posted by Executor
Since daveb has officially proclaimed that Derek Smart will never get ahold of the license, how about we go back to flaming him? No need to waste time on unnecessary pleasantries when we could be doing something more productive.
Why stoop to his level?
EDIT; or rather, why give him an excuse to act the arse and then badmouth HLP whenever he can.... I mean, he's not worth the effort, is he?
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It's not even worth the entertainment value.
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Oh, come on. Smart's attempted to be civil recently and he's backed off the license. While it's fun to call him a dick and all, the man's not being a horrible asshole right now, he's none of our concern, why **** with him?
Might be a good idea to keep the fundraising idea on hold, though, until we see if THQ needs some encouragement.