Hard Light Productions Forums
Off-Topic Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: Setekh on July 23, 2004, 05:39:55 am
-
At last (heh), here is the official public statement for where HLP stands on the recent issues associated with Derek Smart's recent and future actions. This is where the staff of HLP stand; as the community, you can choose to line up with this or reject it, though we hope you find it satisfactory to represent you.
If anyone has questions regarding these matters, or feels there are points that have not been addressed, they’re welcome to contact the admins - we'll try our best to answer questions, make changes if appropriate, and help clarify anything. If you have a question about particular wording in the statement, contact Kalfireth, as he took the time to write it up. You can email or PM him through his forum profile.
[q]Greetings all,
This statement addresses Hard Light Productions' (HLP's) position regarding a number of issues that has arisen surrounding Derek Smart's decision to attempt to purchase the intellectual property (IP) rights to the FreeSpace franchise (therefore, to FreeSpace 3). The statement has been divided into a number of separate points.
1: Our stance to his attempts to acquire the IP rights.
2: Our stance to his (possible) threats of legal action.
3: Our intentions for action from this point onwards.
1: The HLP website and staff neither supports nor opposes Mr. Smart's attempt to purchase the IP rights to the FreeSpace franchise. HLP is an un-official FreeSpace fan site run by fans of the FreeSpace franchise. Until the recent collapse of Interplay (current holders of the franchises rights), it was widely held by all that there would not be a sequel (or further release) of the series. Derek’s involvement has come as a surprise to all concerned.
However at this point in time he does not hold the rights to the franchise. To this end, as I have said, HLP neither supports nor opposes his attempts. We cannot speculate about that which hasn’t happened.
2: As yet we have seen no more than a threat of legal action (Added, 2004-07-24: See this post (http://forums.avault.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=3;t=005485;p=6#000134) by Derek Smart1). We have no intention of being frightened by threats. Should action be taken then we will deal with it as it comes – but since the only mention of these actions we have seen have been on public forums on the internet, this also is speculation.
No change to the running of the site, the administration or our content and hosted projects will be made in light of these threats – as threats are not concrete.
3: Announcement of these events has taken the entire community by surprise but as I have said in point 2, Hard Light Productions shall continue to operate as normal with no changes to our content, staff or hosted sites.
At first, things seemed to go badly. However we’re looking to establish good working relationships with all in question, including Adrenaline Vault (where news of the possible acquisition was first seen) and Derek Smart. HLP has long been popular for its accommodating nature with regards to new-comers and we are looking to maintain this image. Therefore both members from Adrenaline Vault and Derek himself shall be welcome on in our community for as long as it is possible to maintain these good relations.
Sincerely,
The Hard Light Productions Staff
1 - Derek Smart, July 15th, 2004, Adrenaline Vault forums (http://forums.avault.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=3;t=005485;p=6#000134): "Let me assure you of one thing that you can go to sleep with tonite. I have FULL intentions of getting this license. If I DO get it, you and your teenny leetle friends on your Ferrous Oxide project, are effectively, shutdown because I don't piss around when it comes to IP properties. You would do well to ask around. I've sued publishers for less and I have attorneys around the world, literally on speed dial.
Now, I will leave you with that thought, as I retire for the evening.
You will eventually come to regret this day. Mark my words."[/q]
I added the reference to Derek Smart's threats of legal action as a clarification to a potential misunderstanding that was brought to my attention. // Sandwich
-
Well I support this statement:)
-
Sounds good and civilized :nod:
-
I am quite willing to abide by it. As long as things stay polite on both sides of the debate, I will keep all other opinions open.
Flipside.
-
*sides with it as well.
-
Put a size-9 '*****' on the end. It'll make it appeal to the ethnics more.
-
Yeah, political bull****. But hey, you gotta do what you gotta do.
Then again, I haven't even bothered posting anything about the whole Derek thing. I could care less really. Wasn't expecting FS3, and not gonna buy it :)
-
Originally posted by DragonClaw
Yeah, political bull****. But hey, you gotta do what you gotta do.
Not according to my college coursework, you don't.
-
Originally posted by an0n
Not according to my college coursework, you don't.
Didn't you drop out?
-
No. I just failed spectacularly.
IIRC the highest mark you could possibly get (IE, 100% in all the tests) without doing coursework was like 1-2 points into a C. I got E's and D's without any coursework.
So, in retrospect, if I'd done it I'd've maybe got some C's and B's.
Ah, well. Live and learn.
-
yes he did
and thatstatement thing is poilitically correct :)
-
Thanks for the support, folks. :) But try to keep it on-topic. :p
Originally posted by an0n
Put a size-9 '*****' on the end. It'll make it appeal to the ethnics more.
Huh? Sincerely, the Hard Light Productions Staff Bi-- ahhh, never mind. :p
-
Interesting.
Looks like Thunder can say little by saying lots, I like this. ;)
-
One thing, guys: Does it hurt, straddling the fence like that?
-
Originally posted by Ashrak
and thatstatement thing is poilitically correct :)
Yes, it is.
-
Originally posted by Setekh
Huh? Sincerely, the Hard Light Productions Staff Bi-- ahhh, never mind. :p
:lol: that made me laugh somehow:p
end of OT!
-
Originally posted by an0n
One thing, guys: Does it hurt, straddling the fence like that?
It would, if I let what happens on the internet get to me. We do what we have to do to get by.
-
FreeSpace???? That's the Bose spelling...
Freespace, is what you mean...
-
I guess I can support this.
-
Originally posted by Setekh
1: Our stance to his attempts to acquire the IP rights.
2: Our stance to his (possible) threats of legal action.
3: Our intentions for action from this point onwards.
1: The HLP website and staff neither supports nor opposes Mr. Smart's attempt to purchase the IP rights to the FreeSpace franchise. HLP is an un-official FreeSpace fan site run by fans of the FreeSpace franchise. Until the recent collapse of Interplay (current holders of the franchises rights), it was widely held by all that there would not be a sequel (or further release) of the series. Derek’s involvement has come as a surprise to all concerned.
However at this point in time he does not hold the rights to the franchise. To this end, as I have said, HLP neither supports nor opposes his attempts. We cannot speculate about that which hasn’t happened.
What I disagree with here is the "neither for nor against". Now, assuming that he does aquire the license, since all this is irrelevant otherwise, I assume this position would stay the same? As we have quite clearly seen, the vast majority of the members who make up HLP, not to mention the gaming community at large, are firmly against Derek Smart's involvement with FS3. Now, these sentiments may not have been expressed politely, but it has been made clear where everyone stands.
What I don't understand is, if there is such overwhelming support for opposing the idea of Derek Smart's Freespace 3, by both HLP members and gamers in general, why take this neutral position? I can understand the wish to remain "above the petty quarrels of the masses", but if this statement is being issued by Hard Light Productions, should it not reflect the wishes of the majority of individuals who are Hard Light Productions? As "the government" of HLP, do you not have an obligation to follow the wishes of "the people"?
Originally posted by Setekh
2: As yet we have seen no more than a threat of legal action. We have no intention of being frightened by threats. Should action be taken then we will deal with it as it comes – but since the only mention of these actions we have seen have been on public forums on the internet, this also is speculation.
No change to the running of the site, the administration or our content and hosted projects will be made in light of these threats – as threats are not concrete.
Agreed.
Originally posted by Setekh
3: Announcement of these events has taken the entire community by surprise but as I have said in point 2, Hard Light Productions shall continue to operate as normal with no changes to our content, staff or hosted sites.
At first, things seemed to go badly. However we’re looking to establish good working relationships with all in question, including Adrenaline Vault (where news of the possible acquisition was first seen) and Derek Smart. HLP has long been popular for its accommodating nature with regards to new-comers and we are looking to maintain this image. Therefore both members from Adrenaline Vault and Derek himself shall be welcome on in our community for as long as it is possible to maintain these good relations.
Sincerely,
The Hard Light Productions Staff[/q]
More or less agreed. However, I have some reservation about being nice to Derek Smart. Within his first three posts here, he had already insulted, belittled or otherwise attacked several members, not to mention HLP in general. I think that you will find that however agressive people may have been during that period, the replies to Smart's original posts, both here and on AVault, where for the most part civilized. It was only after he started flaming, that things got really bad. I remember Flipside, aldo, Tiara, Thorn and others being quite polite at first.
If anyone else had signed up, and by his third post was aready engaged in a world-class flamewar, he would be banned so fast it would make his head spin. I have nothing against Derek Smart posting here, in fact, if he can engage in a calm and constructive debate, I would even welcome it, but because of his general contempt for the community, I don't see why anyone should go out of their way not to step of his toes.
-
Originally posted by Rictor
As "the government" of HLP, do you not have an obligation to follow the wishes of "the people"?
To be very, very blunt: No. It would be wise for us to not piss you guys off but HLP is not a democracy, it is just a very benevolent dictatorship.
As for the whole issue, if there was anything more than unsubstantiated rumors on an internet bulletin board we would have an official opinion that was 'no comment.' Until somebody connected with Freespace makes an official press release I consider it to be not worth the time and emotion put into it.
As for my personal opinions, they are similar to Dragonclaw's. I never seriously expected a Freespace 3 and any game with that title and not made by the Volition crew/without significant involvement of Volition team members simply is, as far as I'm concerned, not Freespace 3. So I'm not losing anything. Do I think Derek Smart could do Freespace 3? I couldn't say. From what I've heard (Again, these evil internet rumors) he wanted to make it a sort of battlecruiser light, which is not Freespace. And if he stayed true to the FS roots and made it accessible to modders (which, after all, is just another part of the FS legacy), well, I guess if you make enough games you'll get lucky eventually.
The long and the short is, until I see some concrete proof that his project is going ahead I'm not going to waste sleep over it. Were it my choice I'd have the Volition crew do a Freespace 3, unfortunately, even as staff at HLP my options with regards to this are limited to wishing.
-
"The opinions stated do not represent those of the management."
They're scared of bringin on the Wrath of the Pink Banana[/i]
-
I support you statement Setek :yes:
Oh and if anyone disagrees...... :devil:
-
Smart made legal threats!?
And I support your statement too
-
Originally posted by Shrike
To be very, very blunt: No. It would be wise for us to not piss you guys off but HLP is not a democracy, it is just a very benevolent dictatorship.
Alright, I'll put it another way. Why do you want to stay netutral, despite the wishes of more or less everyone here. What advantage is there is having no position? Other than some vague feeling of sophistication, on account of being supposedly immune to the baser emotions of the great unwashed masses, is there any reason at all for remaining neutral?
Its not like everyone is going to be appaled if HLP were to take an anti-Smart decision. Keep in mind, outside of a small group of staunch Smart supporters, everyone is to some degree opposed to the idea of Smart making FS3. HLP is not going to come off as a bunch of fanatical trolls if that what you're worried about. All the sentiments that I have seen expressed on the Interweb have been at least as anti-Smart as those I have seen on HLP. The fact is, people don't want to see a great license ruined, and that understandable.
So again I'll ask, because I just can't understand it, what reason is there for not taking a position? Are there some hidden advantages that I can't see, or is this neutrality for its own sake?
_______
As for this whole thig not being worth the effort until something more concrete than rumours appears, well, it seems to me that everyone here has already invested quite a bit of energy into it.
Its up to you ofcourse, to decide what you want to do, but to me, it seems best to prepare the shelter before the storm. Or whatever, I'm not every good with analogies, but you get the idea.
-
Smart may be able to squash us like bugs if we make an official statement against him. Thats really my only concern.
-
Smart Squash Us? How? With What?
Im sorry, but he cant touch us and if he could he needs a better reason then us not wanting him to make FS3 to do something to us such as squash us.
DSmart is all talk, and if you notice his first statement he says he already got the license, then later says he will be getting it. He doesnt make any sense and contradicts himself. Not too mention he is rude when getting opinions HE ASKS for.
I stand by this 110% and i dare DSmart to try something (when we have done nothing but stand up for what we beleive in, DSmart not makeing FS3.)
-
Obviously he couldnt touch us now. However, couldnt he shut us down if he happened to get the license?
-
Originally posted by MatthewPapa
Obviously he couldnt touch us now. However, couldnt he shut us down if he happened to get the license?
(http://www.gamerskingdom.net/forums/images/smilies/gkf_roflmao.gif)
HLP will never go down!
*takes out his beam cannon*
(http://www.gamerskingdom.net/forums/images/smilies/beam.gif)
-
Of course I am never giving up either (without a good legal fight anyways), but is there any way to better prepare for something bad happens? I just sure hope volition gets it in the next couple of days and I hope DS has given up on his quest for the FS license.
-
Originally posted by Rictor
So again I'll ask, because I just can't understand it, what reason is there for not taking a position?
The reason is, to put it simply, that we - the staff, as representing a website - don't care. It's a lot of talk and no action right now, so why should we? I've said since the beginning that the reaction of the community here was way out of proportion, and that is more or less the perception of the whole HLP staff.
-
Guys don't worry about legal threats, Smart can't do anything
he just talks.
-
Originally posted by MatthewPapa
Obviously he couldnt touch us now. However, couldnt he shut us down if he happened to get the license?
Hard Light Productions is not owned by Freespace or the owners of Freespace. HLP is a standalone site, based on Freespace 2. Its an Unofficial resource. Even if someone came here who owned the licence and said they didnt want us using the FS2 name, they couldnt stop us. Technically their is no law against using a name for non-profit purposes, and HLP is non-profit and a fan site.
They may be able to stop us from using certain materials, but my guess is it would be too expensive to enforce and be like shooting your self in the foot in the promotions department. No business man in his right mind would quell this community. DSmart is all talk and no action and he has proved that this past week and a half. We give him too much credit.
We are the community, we give support, we love the game. DSmart is just a guy passing through.
-
We are the community, we give support, we love the game. DSmart is just a guy passing through.
True:) :yes:
-
Originally posted by Styxx
The reason is, to put it simply, that we - the staff, as representing a website - don't care. It's a lot of talk and no action right now, so why should we? I've said since the beginning that the reaction of the community here was way out of proportion, and that is more or less the perception of the whole HLP staff.
Indeed, and as I said before - the statement dosen't really call for the community to do anything different as such. It's our stance - the sites stance. All you guys have to do is not openly flame him here or anywhere else - and if you do - the site has nothing to do with you. Put bluntly - we don't want to keep having to visit other communities to clear up the mess that has been made. It's happened on at least two communities now, enough is enough. The trolls will be treated like trolls and the rest are welcome.
-
I'm with you on this statement, Setekh ;)
-
I think it's worth noting that HLP is not 'the' current Freespace community - it is the potential Freespace community. i.e. every member that there has been, is, and can ever be.
So HLP has to remain neutral, in the interests of not presenting a barrier to potential members. If anyone made FS3, this could well be the only* neutral forum available to fans - if HLP was beholden to the current members, then it would be a possible deterrent to new members.
Good statement, BTW. Very professional. :yes:
*well, on a major gaming network. Obviously there's SectorGame, but this is the only community on a highly visible site like 3dap.
-
what would the "current" FreeSpace community be?
-
Originally posted by ubermetroid
what would the "current" FreeSpace community be?
The current members of HLP (within this context ).
-
All hail Setekh!
(http://www.gamerskingdom.net/forums/images/smilies/respect.gif)
-
On a related note: http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php/topic,25559.0.html
-
Why is it nobody read the fact that I wrote it up?
If you have a question about particular wording in the statement, contact Kalfireth, as he took the time to write it up.
Your hailing is misdirected, thankyou very much :p
-
We read it, we just didn't know who 'Kalfireth' was.
-
*cough* Very sorry Kalifereth - (ish)
It was very good :D
-
I support HLP in whatever in its decisions now and in the future.
-
I had no idea that the definitions of neutrality and apathy were interchangeable. I am so much more informed now.
-
I think it's along the lines of all squares are rectangles, but not all rectangles are square. All apathy is neutral, but not all neutrality is apathetic.
-
Neutrality is a choice, apathy is a state of mind.
-
Originally posted by ShadowWolf_IH
Neutrality is a choice, apathy is a state of mind.
That's right. It's quite a weighty decision that we made - and we still stand by it. As Styxx said, we will not act upon empty propositions. The recent events with Smart's apparent backing-down, as well as industry opinion, bear witness to the unlikeliness of anything happening to the IP.