Hard Light Productions Forums
Off-Topic Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: Sandwich on July 23, 2004, 05:31:31 pm
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I wrote Dave Baranec an email about the whole DS/FS3 mess a week ago or so, and the following is the reply. Please note that this is NOT nessecarily the official Volition stance.
So, without further ado:
[q]- This is an unofficial statement, based solely on daveb's personal impressions.
- It's most likely that no one picks up the FS license at all.
- The FS license, if sold, would cost between $100k-$300k.
- Many of Volition's employees are interested in picking up the license; but it's THQ's call.
- Mike Kulas, the president of Volition, has made inquiries to THQ on the matter, but nothing else is certain on that front.
- In the end, it's still possible that Smart may acquire the license, but THQ could do the same.
[/q]
Now in a healthier, summarised form. :) // Setekh
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Always nice to hear from Mr Dave.
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It's good to hear from them. Let's hope for that 40% :)
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Well at least its something......
(http://www.gamerskingdom.net/forums/images/smilies/Drinking_Friends.gif)
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Originally posted by Ace
It's good to hear from them. Let's hope for that 40% :)
:nod: this gotta be best news in years from Volition even in Unofficially
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Since I've been trying to catch up on what's happened the last few days, this is definetly the best stuff I've read all day :nod:
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That movie was Hillarious!!!
This made me feal alot better about Derek Smart... that he is even more likely not buying the license
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Originally posted by daveb
- THQ picks it up, possibly flexing a little bit of muscle coming from all the legal issues Parallax has had with Interplay over past debts.
I doubt Interplay will hand over the FS license purely to cover old debts. Interplay's in desperate need of money, so THQ would have to offer at least something. How about HLP chip in $50 grand?
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i normally dont participate in scuttlebutt activities, but its always goot to hear dave speak.
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Happy happy joy joy!
Now THATS good news.
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:lol: DaveB made fun of Kazan!
Now, I hope nobody uses this info and goes off to piss off DS....
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I just got a PM from Dave saying that he didn't intend that email to be publicized. I am not a moderator in this forum, so one of you admins should probably remove that.
It's good to know his thoughts on this though. I did always think that something wasn't right about the way Smart was going about this license issue...
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They better not or they will have to deal with me......
(http://www.gamerskingdom.net/forums/images/smilies/chainsaw.gif)
:devil:
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If it gets deleted and anybody needs a copy, just PM me. I got it saved.
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[color=66ff00]Sandwich went on one of DaveB's last points:[/color]
So.....distribute this information as you may.
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yeah, that is what I thought too but I got this PM while reading this thread:
daveb wrote on 07-23-2004 07:13 PM:
Could you do me a favor and pull that message from me out of that thread Sandwich started? That email wasn't meant for public consumption.
Thanks!
I think I was the only moderator online at the time so he sent me the message, but I can't do anything in the main forums.
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Yeah, I should've been more specific about that. Don't want to ruffle anyone's feathers with it :)
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Originally posted by daveb
Yeah, I should've been more specific about that. Don't want to ruffle anyone's feathers with it :)
(http://www.gamerskingdom.net/forums/images/smilies/respect.gif)
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Wow dave posted...
Don't you think it's time to get passed this "Dave hates Kazan" crap.. i don't know how many times I've tried to settle this situation
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Well, aside from Dr. Smart, the only person I can see it pissing off is Kazan, and thats nothing new...
[edit] I rest my case...
[edit2] nice edit Kaz...
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Hey dave :)
long time no see :)
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Sorry about that, Dave... what Maeg said. :o Would you mind stating what you did intend for public consumption, or should I drastically paraphrase your email?
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I'll admit that dave is correct about me so far as the _VAGUE_ parellel of attitude.. however
A) I tend to listen to my audience
B) I have the skills to back my mouth up
C) I go on _Short_ tirades when i get aggravated and then generally apologize later
D) I admit when I am actually wrong (like criticising dave for small little things in fs2 despite the great big awesome ideas in the game)
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Nah, I'll address it here. Was just letting everyone know that the Volition is aware of the whole FS licensing thing. Not really much to say beyond that, that isn't idle speculation on my part. The rest was just standard email BS.
*biffs Sandwich* :)
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Fight fight fight!
Kaz, he's probably just playing with you ;)
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This ain't the time and place man...great things are afoot.
;) ;)
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well dave, I want to welcome you back - even if you still seem to hate me :D
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Heh. I've had Kazan on my ignore list for as far back as I can remember. I have no idea what he's saying ;)
In other news, my doctor has told me that my blood pressure has dropped dramatically. Wacky.
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Originally posted by daveb
Heh. I've had Kazan on my ignore list for as far back as I can remember. I have no idea what he's saying ;)
He's sucking up to you :p
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Bookmark! bookmark!
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yeah.. sure trying to end a 5 year fued is "sucking up" ... right
I am tired of being on bad terms with a really cool guy.
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Easy Kaz, it was a joke...
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I believe blood pressure is an important thing to watch :)
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Well, it wasn't just that which caused Dave to have to take a step back, perhaps everyone could learn a little lesson from it ;)
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Did it occur to anyone that this is like exactly the opposite of when Derek Smart posted here. Good news, and no flaming in sight. The posts are still piling up high, but I doubt we'll exceed our previous record. And everyone is being so....polite. Lo, behold my children, the anti-Smart has come unto us. And he has brought with him joyous tidings, and it was good.
...er, I'm just happy is all.
edit: there's not much use in changing the original text now, the cat's out of the bag, for better or worse.
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Originally posted by daveb
*biffs Sandwich* :)
Don't you start with me, bubba! Or else I'll have to get all serious (http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php/topic,6189.0.html) on your... erm... yeah.
And you might want to give Kaz a chance - {C3PO voice}I do believe I've had a calming effect on him!{/C3PO voice}
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I think dubbing DaveB with the title Anti-Smart might not be the best of ideas, it's rather open t misinterpretation in either direction :D
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Well. I wish I could have read that before it was removed, but I'll await the official unofficial response. :)
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Yeah, I don't want to be throwing barbs at other developers :) Although he's a bit ....unorthodox.... I have a good deal of respect for Derek Smart in the sense that he has a definite philosphy on how and why games should be made and he totally sticks to it, through thick and thin.
If you took a poll of the Average Game Developer and ask what games they'd like to make if they could do anything, and probably 90% of them would answer something other than the stuff they do at work. Derek has always just done the games he wants to do. That's pretty cool :)
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Originally posted by Rictor
Did it occur to anyone that this is like exactly the opposite of when Derek Smart posted here.
Tenner to the first person to guess why
offer only valid in the state of Malawi between 12:00 and 1:00 on Septober the 35th. If you live in the state of Mlawi, you must fill out form 25-56-675-324-5654-685. This can be obtained from your local Nigerian embassy (continental Europe division only). Please do not feed the ducks.
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He's the Messenger Bearing Good News from that Rowan Atkinson sketch. Smart would be the Messenger Bearing Bad News Who Thinks It's Good News.
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Well, I'll grudgingly admit, obviously his stubborness does get him somewhere if he is 'living his dream' as a programmer, that, to me, would be worth more than making massive profits :)
But yes, he's...unorthodox at times :D
Just thinking, I was watching MIB2 tonight, and this is just like the moment when they open the railway locker ;)
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Well, I don't know that I'm necessarily bearing good news, so much as I'm not bearing not-good news :) Don't really know what'll happen.
Personally, I think it'd be cool if they could dust off all us old FS developers, give us a shot of oil in the joints and let us ride. But we're spread pretty thin across a (MUCH bigger) Volition these days.
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Well, it's a shot in the dark, but I'd be glad to see the Bravos sail again ;)
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this is probably a "do not under any circumstances answer this question" type of question, but what exactly is the relationship between THQ and Volition. You guys are, as far as I know, now a wholly owned subsidiary of THQ, right? I mean, as far as calling the shots regarding the games Volition develops, what the atmosphere like?
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Originally posted by daveb
Well, I don't know that I'm necessarily bearing good news, so much as I'm not bearing not-good news :) Don't really know what'll happen.
Personally, I think it'd be cool if they could dust off all us old FS developers, give us a shot of oil in the joints and let us ride. But we're spread pretty thin across a (MUCH bigger) Volition these days.
From a purely theoretical point of view, if V were to develop FS3 would it be a PS2/3* game, a PC game or a dual platform game?
(I don't actually have the same objection to a console FS game as some other people do, h'actually.)
*wasn;t there a story about Volition working with the next-gen technology for reasearch purposes or soemthing similar? Could be completely wrong here.....
EDIT; actually I could see this developing into a big "bombard daveb with questions" type thread. So feel free to ignore me ;)
EDIT2: plues it's probably a stupid question, now I think of it.
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Well yes, Volition is totally and wholly owned by THQ. We're a true 'internal' studio (THQ has way more external studios than they do internal).
As far as what games get developed, there's a good give-and-take. They respect our abilities/opinions quite a bit, but they're also a publically traded company so they have to make decisions that aren't going to be huge disasters.
(I keep saying 'they' and 'we' because they let us operate very much as if we were independant, which is great)
If you think about it : games aren't getting any more expensive in terms of sale price. Still roughly $50. On the other hand, top end games are easily 10x as expensive as they were, say, 10 years ago. I believe the original FS budget was something in the 2-3 million range - which was a LOT for the time. These days, more and more games are having whopper budgets of $15 million+. If you do the math - that means you have to sell a ton more copies. Every project committed to is a massive gamble. Sure, the ones that strike it really big (like GTA) make unprecedented amounts of cash, but the ones that fizzle lose huge investments.
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Originally posted by daveb
Well, I don't know that I'm necessarily bearing good news, so much as I'm not bearing not-good news :)
There was one of those in the skit too :p Just the Bearer Of News.
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But couldn't they advertise FreeSpace better than Interplay did? There are alot of people who have played hte game, I'd imagine that if it was on more shelves, and advertised just a wee bit more there'd be more people buying it. Without a doubt, if it's made (by anyone other than Dr. Smart) I'll purchase it. First day on the shelves, even. :)
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Originally posted by Raa
But couldn't they advertise FreeSpace better than Interplay did? There are alot of people who have played hte game, I'd imagine that if it was on more shelves, and advertised just a wee bit more there'd be more people buying it. Without a doubt, if it's made (by anyone other than Dr. Smart) I'll purchase it. First day on the shelves, even. :)
Didn't Interplay skimp on the advertising because they were releasing a 'competing' Star Trek game?
Which seems monumentally stupid, to me......
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Yeah, the thing with Freespace 2 is, even if it didn't sell all that well, it has an amazing reputation among the gaming community. Very few games get praised as consistantly as Freespace 2, so if a sequel were to come along, the hype-level would probably be up there with Fallout 3, Doom 3 and so worth. And hopefully, if something comes of this, THQ will be Smart enough to do some actual marketing for the title.
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Well, alas, us 60 odd posters, are not really going to influence THQ in this, as much as we would like to, the mathmatics of the situation do make it unlikely :(
Hah, I can't resist the temptation....I suppose I were doing it, the first step would be to release a Free version of Freespace 1 or 2 in most PC magazines as a Bonus CD set. That'd wind up interest in the market ;)
Edit : Oh and give a nice tester into just how much interest IS generated ;)
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Originally posted by Flipside
Well, alas, us 60 odd posters, are not really going to influence THQ in this, as much as we would like to, the mathmatics of the situation do make it unlikely :(
Hah, I can't resist the temptation....I suppose I were doing it, the first step would be to release a Free version of Freespace 1 or 2 in most PC magazines as a Bonus CD set. That'd wind up interest in the market ;)
Edit : Oh and give a nice tester into just how much interest IS generated ;)
It's worked for Sierra with Ground Control and Tribes, hasn't it? (has it?)
Hell of a good idea - releasing old prequels. Although, doesn't someone already have FS1&2 budget rights in that regard (White Label in the UK)
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Virgin released Freespace 1 + 2 as a White Label bundle pack in the UK.
I know, because it's the one I've got.
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Special editions too.
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Originally posted by an0n
Virgin released Freespace 1 + 2 as a White Label bundle pack in the UK.
I know, because it's the one I've got.
Same for Germany, i.e. the german language version.
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one advantage that THQ would have over interplay of FS2's time would be that THQ isn't developing another space sim game that it would consiter FS3 to be competition against. wich is what Interplay had IIRC.
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For that matter, I don't think anyone is. They got oversaturated for a while, but I can't actually think of anything out right now that even could make use of a joystick, aside from a couple of realish looking sims. In my biased opinion, the market is ripe for a new space sim title that doesn't have any kind of persistant world/mmo quality to it. The storytelling aspect is what makes FS2 so good, and that's a quality desperately lacking in the current generation of games.
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Yeah, all the PC market seems good for these days is MMORPGS and FPS shooters. Seriously, the market is so oversaturated with MMO games, thats become the PC "thing" now, but the trouble is, I don't like any of them, which just gets rid of a whole half of the game market for me. And the one game that was likely to advance the genre and get me interested, namely Mythica, got canceled.
But I digress. The PC industry is ready for a new space-shooter, and I would love for it to be Freespace 3. It could spark a space-sim renaissance, much like Baldur's Gate did for RPGs.
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hey dave im curious about your opinions about fs2open. have you the chance play with it any or take a look at the code? do you see anthing ithat can mproved? so on and sou fourth
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(http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php/topic,25567.0.html)
Originally posted by Nuke
..
[/url]
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Bob beat me to it... :p
If his post wasnt obvious enough.... look harder...
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If you want interest in fs2 and the SCP, just re-release the original CDs, compiled along with a CD holding the ub3rfied SCP stuff.
Give it a different release name like Freespace 2: Valhalla or something like that and stuff in Derelict, Inferno or maybe a few other campaigns. :)
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Originally posted by an0n
Virgin released Freespace 1 + 2 as a White Label bundle pack in the UK.
I know, because it's the one I've got.
my Logitech Wingman Force came with Freespace 1, among other games, and that was in 2000.
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Originally posted by Singh
If you want interest in fs2 and the SCP, just re-release the original CDs, compiled along with a CD holding the ub3rfied SCP stuff.
Give it a different release name like Freespace 2: Valhalla or something like that and stuff in Derelict, Inferno or maybe a few other campaigns. :)
ookay, it's a long shot, but here's an idea, to go with yours..
Freespace Anthology..
FS1, Silent Threat(prolly the "new" ST that i've heard about), and Freespace 2, all in the one campaign.
(see the Fs1 - fs2 mod to get what i mean)
one engine, three campaigns.. oodles of freespacy goodness.
with some non-scp campaigns (like Warzone, Derelect, you get the picture) included, as well as a retooled FS2 demo running the demo campaign. to spark interest in the SCP.
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A shame you guys don't get to see the picture. That was one of the best bits. :D
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Hmmm. if game budgets are tenfold these days of what they used to be, and the interrest in space shooters is not all that high (compared to other game types), this means a fs3 will probably only happen (or it's development be ok'd by 'mother') if the expected returns are enough to cover the dev-costs.
Generating interrests by releasing 1&2 as prequels isn't an option I think, especially since it has already been done as white label, unless there's a something added that would lift a tip of the veil on what FS3 will be about. Also nowadays most games are spin-offs from a movie or tv-series, I think most hard-core fans won't like the idea, but seeing as there's still no good counterweight to ST and B5, it could maybe open another source for funding if there was something done in that direction too? Perhaps a DVD-only release which would come with all 3! games as an extra on the disc, perhaps even with a special modder disk added containing all kinds of resources for modders too. Add to this some kind of contest perhaps of which the best contributions are also included. Or organize something like a public shootout accross the continents, and have the winners be included (either by looks or referred to by their nick) as in-game characters to FS3 when this is beyond the 'what-if' stage. Now that would generate publicity and perhaps enough of a bases to reasonably estimate expected FS3 sales.
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Is there any way for me to get a PM of DaveB's e-mail?
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I was thinking 'Free DVD with Full version of Freespace 2 and the Freespace Port - a fan created conversion of the original Freespace 1 game' ;)
Flipside :D
Of course, I could dream and suggest the FSO with the two main campaigns, but that'd really be setting the targets high for any continuation ;) hehehehehe
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Originally posted by StratComm
For that matter, I don't think anyone is. They got oversaturated for a while, but I can't actually think of anything out right now that even could make use of a joystick, aside from a couple of realish looking sims. In my biased opinion, the market is ripe for a new space sim title that doesn't have any kind of persistant world/mmo quality to it. The storytelling aspect is what makes FS2 so good, and that's a quality desperately lacking in the current generation of games.
Yeah... aside from flight-sims like LO:MAC I'm hard pressed to think of any 'stick-using games that have been released...
StarShatter has been thrown about a few times, but that's the only thing I can think off off the top of my head.
I tried it actually, but it's not my kind of game. Actually preferred IFH... man, if they polished that up a bit that could have easily become a decent commercial game!
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you know funniest thing about all this we are talking about FS3 again after few years openly:D
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Originally posted by JarC
Hmmm. if game budgets are tenfold these days of what they used to be, and the interrest in space shooters is not all that high (compared to other game types), this means a fs3 will probably only happen (or it's development be ok'd by 'mother') if the expected returns are enough to cover the dev-costs.
Generating interrests by releasing 1&2 as prequels isn't an option I think, especially since it has already been done as white label, unless there's a something added that would lift a tip of the veil on what FS3 will be about.
Well, it is actually starting to be done now, though..... there's obviously the Ground Control & Tribes releases, but you could maybe point towards the rumoured bundling of (updated) Half Life 1 with it's sequel....
Point of an FS1 & FS2 re-release would be to counter the problem of releasing a sequel so long after the last game - it'd be a way of letting people know what the series is about, and the background story itself, very easily.
Were an FS3 to be released, it'd have to at the very least allude - I think - to the ending of FS2. Plus it's bloody good publicity.
Oh, and I hadn't seen a White Label game,. IIRC, on the shelves for ages. Hence my curiousity about whether they owned the rights. And that FS1+FS2 release didn't include Silent Threat, for god-only-knows what reason.
Obviously very pre-emptive to talk of FS3, though. But it's nice to daydream ;)
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well pc gamer puts fan created mods and such on their demo discs, maybe they could put scp and maybe inferno on one.
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Well it looks like DS has decided to come to some conclusions from what Mr. Baranec has said here. Some of his conclusions are based on misquotations (i.e. "Volition being overextended" Dave mentioned that the original FS devs were split between various other projects at the moment) but others seem reasonable.
Needless to say, let's still hope for that 40% chance that was unofficially mentioned :)
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There's a version of FS1 that was on the shelves that included Silent Treat here in the U.S. It's what originally got me into Freespace, actually. I've never, and I mean never, seen FS2 on sale that I can remember.
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Originally posted by Ace
Well it looks like DS has decided to come to some conclusions from what Mr. Baranec has said here. Some of his conclusions are based on misquotations (i.e. "Volition being overextended" Dave mentioned that the original FS devs were split between various other projects at the moment) but others seem reasonable.
Needless to say, let's still hope for that 40% chance that was unofficially mentioned :)
*raises eyebrow*
Where?
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Great to here from the king, and that he still knows we're here. Halleluja!
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Originally posted by aldo_14
*raises eyebrow*
Where?
http://forums.avault.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=3;t=005531;p=5
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Originally posted by Thorn
http://forums.avault.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=3;t=005531;p=5
So.... seems wrong to me, especially as daveb mentioned Volition being bigger than ever before (with reference to the 'people stretched' bit), and also that they'd got a really good deal & relationship with THQ plus a bargaining edge over the Parallax thing if push came to shove. I have the feeling that the point being made was more that if V made an FS3, it may not necesarrily be the same people as made FS1 & 2.
Plus what daveb said with regards to the cost of games was emphasising that the financial 'risk' of FS2s development budget - if repeated - was actually far less than many other games developed now (although this could be read in another way). So I took that as being that THQ could be convinced to buy the license, if the price was right and V made a good enough pitch.
But, then again, we interpret stuff based on our biases / opinions, after all......
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FS3 doesn't have to be made right away. That's what Mr. Smart is forgetting. I'd be perfectly content waiting a year to 3 years for it, so long as it's in THQ's/Volition's hands.
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yeah..
either way, regardless of whoever gets the rights to FS, be it V or Smart, i'll be waiting for the results with baited breath.
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If Volition were to take the SCP, optimize and bugfix it and make a new campaign for it, I think they could make a profit. Volition making another Freespace is akin to Blizzard making another Starcraft, on a smaller scale. I suppose the question is, "Is this the right time?". Things have been going on a trend towards being more personal and in-your-face than space action sims.
However, Freespace 2 (from what I've read anyway) is pretty widely respected as being one of the best space sims of its time.
So I think THQ could make a profit from it, especially if they marketed it right. (Let's put a double emphasis on it, shall we?) Considering most people haven't even heard of Freespace 2, my own impression, a good release could net the would-be buyers of Freespace 2 that never were, just because they didn't hear about it. For those desperately seeking Freespace 2 on eBay, it could be a godsend.
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Well, space sims won't just coe back into popularity - someone will have to make the next great leap. Same as, I dunno, Half Life did for sngle-player FPS'.
Basically, there's a need for a genre-defining game. It is possible that some impetus may come as a side-effect when the next Star Wars movie is released (given that's probably the only big movie/series I can think of with space-combat in it).
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Originally posted by aldo_14
Well, space sims won't just coe back into popularity - someone will have to make the next great leap. Same as, I dunno, Half Life did for sngle-player FPS'.
Basically, there's a need for a genre-defining game. It is possible that some impetus may come as a side-effect when the next Star Wars movie is released (given that's probably the only big movie/series I can think of with space-combat in it).
yeah, but that'd be an evolution of the X-wing series, not freespace ;)
either that, or a rogue-squadron tie-in :rolleyes:
but yeah, whatever the next installment of freespace might be, in the right hands (meaning anybody competant in all aspects of game design), it would inject new life in a dying genre..
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Originally posted by Turnsky
yeah, but that'd be an evolution of the X-wing series, not freespace ;)
either that, or a rogue-squadron tie-in :rolleyes:
but yeah, whatever the next installment of freespace might be, in the right hands (meaning anybody competant in all aspects of game design), it would inject new life in a dying genre..
Yeah, I'm speaking of the genre.... X-wing game released, (if good) space-sim market perks up, market conditions better for FS3.
;)
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Originally posted by aldo_14
Yeah, I'm speaking of the genre.... X-wing game released, (if good) space-sim market perks up, market conditions better for FS3.
;)
sounds good, but will lucasarts capitalise on what might be a good field of engagement in space-battle terms?..
or will we see another cheesy rogue-squadron like installment.?
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Let's see
A) IF volition gets licence I think they should port FS1&2
to consoles and avertise them ( get money from sell
B) make Freespace3 multi-platform Game first PC version
with Modding tools (Fred3) and then port it to consoles
so they get lots money, and it sells enough and they don't lose money and they keep THQ happy
that's my 0.002 $
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Considering most people haven't even heard of Freespace 2, my own impression, a good release could net the would-be buyers of Freespace 2 that never were, just because they didn't hear about it. For those desperately seeking Freespace 2 on eBay, it could be a godsend.
Well i'd never heard about Freespace 2 until halfway through last year when i stumbled across a Freespace 2 site whilst searching for space games. I went to Fileplanet, got the demo and loved it. Fro then on i hunted in second hand shops for months and found no trace of the full game, so i headed to Amazon.co.uk. I found a copy of FS1 relatively cheap and bought that, but the 5 or 6 copies of FS2 that were there were £70. So i waited and struck lucky when a £50 one came up.
I'm sure there are other people in the same position as i was, liked the look of the game, looked for it but couldnt find it, go to an online shop and find it highly overpriced. Most people would give up there, especially when the only games were priced so high. It seems at the moment from Amazon.co.uk you could get a copy for £25 but on Amazon.com you'd have to pay $79.95 for a copy.
A re-release would give people the chance to pick up reasonably priced copies and also attract new people to the Freespace community. It can only produce a positive outcome.
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Originally posted by Holy Imperial Gloriano
Let's see
A) IF volition gets licence I think they should port FS1&2
to consoles and avertise them ( get money from sell
B) make Freespace3 multi-platform Game first PC version
with Modding tools (Fred3) and then port it to consoles
so they get lots money, and it sells enough and they don't lose money and they keep THQ happy
that's my 0.002 $
well, that has merit, but at a business standpoint, it'd be too much trouble to port fs1/2 over to consoles..
multiplatform fs3?... depends on how its set out, neh?
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Originally posted by Anubis2k4
Well i'd never heard about Freespace 2 until halfway through last year when i stumbled across a Freespace 2 site whilst searching for space games. I went to Fileplanet, got the demo and loved it. Fro then on i hunted in second hand shops for months and found no trace of the full game, so i headed to Amazon.co.uk. I found a copy of FS1 relatively cheap and bought that, but the 5 or 6 copies of FS2 that were there were £70. So i waited and struck lucky when a £50 one came up.
I'm sure there are other people in the same position as i was, liked the look of the game, looked for it but couldnt find it, go to an online shop and find it highly overpriced. Most people would give up there, especially when the only games were priced so high. It seems at the moment from Amazon.co.uk you could get a copy for £25 but on Amazon.com you'd have to pay $79.95 for a copy.
A re-release would give people the chance to pick up reasonably priced copies and also attract new people to the Freespace community. It can only produce a positive outcome.
Wait... did you mean you paid 50 POUNDs or 50 DOLLARS for for FS2??! :confused: :eek: :eek2:
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Originally posted by Turnsky
multiplatform fs3?... depends on how its set out, neh?
Multi-platform because they want keep THQ happy, customers
and Console games just sell more nowdays
It's like HALO1 they did release it for XBOX first then Microsoft watched how many unit it sells before porting it to PC
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Wait... did you mean you paid 50 POUNDs or 50 DOLLARS for for FS2??!
I paid 50 pounds, and i wouldnt have paid that if, at the time, the only other copies weren't at least 70 pounds each. A couple of weeks back there was a copy of the Sci Fi Sim of the Year edition going for 260 pounds, copies are becoming rarer and more expensive.
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You see, this is what confuses me, people say that Space Sims are dead, and yet it isn't uncommon to see people asking these kinds of prices for this game because there is large demand and small supply.
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Originally posted by Flipside
You see, this is what confuses me, people say that Space Sims are dead, and yet it isn't uncommon to see people asking these kinds of prices for this game because there is large demand and small supply.
Tiny supply and average demand, maybe........ ?
I actually bought FS2 twice, though. Once in the original release (pre SSOFTY), and then the FS1 double-pack. Gave my original copy to a mate, though I've no idea if he ever played it.......
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I recently aquired Tachion and I-War 2, and glad I did.
Tachion had a storytelling that allowed familiarisation with the whole game environment, so you ended up feeling you're a dveller of the place and could love it - the only time I felt something like this was during Hardwar, but that game was too rough eyecandy wise to attract enough attention.
I-War 2 brought part of the revolution the genre would need - ture 3D movement. I'm still playing the game to find its merits, but the sloppy interface is somewhat restricting along with their semi-Tachion-ish mission system.
What did both titles lack?
Advertisement.
The god damn PR people forgot to do their homework - I-War2 is breathtaking (thought the SCP has a very good chance to surpass it soon) graphic wise, and the newtonioan 3D combat was revolutionary. - not to mention the cutscenes, it felt like playing a top-budget movie.
If given a proper advertisement it would have been a major hit...
A space-sim game doesn't have to have the same physics, but the sense of space, wastness and a conveying of movement were all key elements that inpired me about that game.
SCP managed to bring the FS2 engine up to date graphic wise, and the Sexp wizardy they implement allows almost boundless mission creation.
With some ship-dynamism implemented (that sense of movement and space) the game would be a potential seller - no not just a game - a space sim game development suit.
It's not the genre that's dying, it's the stupid manager philosophy choking the life out of a potential endevaur.
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Originally posted by Flipside
You see, this is what confuses me, people say that Space Sims are dead, and yet it isn't uncommon to see people asking these kinds of prices for this game because there is large demand and small supply.
Publishers think that there is no potential market for space sims
but there is..
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Publishers think that there is no potential market for space sims
Im assuming that's because publishers don't keep constant watch of Amazon, ebay, and other online services where their games are sold. If they had kept a constant watch on Amazon alone they would have realised that copies of Freespace 2 are constantly being sold on there, even though the game is no longer in the shops. The fact that so many copies are sold on there shows that the game was a hit, and that in turn shows that there is a market for space sims.
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I think there's a move in general towards having games which fit less within a single genre.... the obvious example - and reason - is the success of GTA3 & Vice City. So we're seeing more and more genre crossing bits in games - story sections in TOCA 2, story-cum-rpg sections in FPSs (i.e. Deus Ex, maybe Half Life 2), vehicle driving & flying in shooters, FPS shooting in RPGs (maybe....Vampire I'm thinking of here), etc.
At the same time, I think maybe it's not as common is it would or could be - largely due to the costs & development time.
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Any game can make profit. It all depends on advertising of the game. Even though the Space Sims are dying off, doesnt mean people dont want them.
The reason why people dont buy space sims anymore is because there is no good space sim that exists for online play, like FS2. Freelancer was alright but got boring after SP, and starlancer online was too buggy and laggy and also lost interest.
FS3 is the only space sim that can bring back the genre from the dead. And with somenew innovations in Space Sims created in FS3, i would bet my home it would break even and maybe make a profit. Just need to advertise it and hype it right.
V made Red Faction, it sucked. However it sold enough for a part 2. Reason: Advertising sucks the gamers in prior to a game being sold. What sold RedFaction was new gaming technology, regardless of the factit was an fps, it had a new system in the game. AThat by itselfs sells titles. So in FS3 you need a new gaming technology implemented to woo the crowds. Then Space Sims will be cool again. Use old technologies or reuse the new ones and i doubt FS3 will ever sell.
People dont want a re-hashing, they want new stuff! If FS3 has enough new technology for gaming in it im sure most would leap on it.
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What about the Star Wars Galaxies one? That may well be good...
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Originally posted by aldo_14
What about the Star Wars Galaxies one? That may well be good...
Indeed SWG's expansion pack jump to lightspeed mighty to be good fun those who have SWG
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I found SWG to involving for my liking.
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Involving? How so?
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Originally posted by Knight Templar
Involving? How so?
Requires too much of a time commitment, I'd imagine.
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Just too much character building and not enough action for me. I like to just jump in a game and have fun. Neverwinter Nights is also involving, however, not as much as SWG. So i play alot of NWN and for free, and have much more fun on the spot, then i would have in SWG paying 20 bucks a month.
Alot of people i know play the game, have said the same thing but they enjoyed it at the later levels because the action got more prominent in the game. So if you dont mind spending time building up then getting to the action, then its a fine game. otherwise if you like character building and some quick action try something else.
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Well I'm playing it for free, so I guess I can't complain... but yes, there is quite a bit of character building.
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Problem with all MMORPGs, I guess - they need some way in which to a) ensure players need to spend a long time playing and b) are 'losing' something when they stop.
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And of course the fact that many of these games are pay-per-month.
I like to pay for my games once and once only ;)
Yes, I know they have to upkeep the server etc ;)
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well I play only fantasy MMORPG's (ff11 and waiting WOW
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Originally posted by Holy Imperial Gloriano
B) make Freespace3 multi-platform Game first PC version
with Modding tools (Fred3) and then port it to consoles
so they get lots money, and it sells enough and they don't lose money and they keep THQ happy
that's my 0.002 $
I'm all for a multi-platform FS3. I want the story more than any other part of it - and stories are often told much better on console games than on PC titles, in my experience.
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Originally posted by Setekh
I'm all for a multi-platform FS3. I want the story more than any other part of it - and stories are often told much better on console games than on PC titles, in my experience.
Indeed, I'am always played games that has good story-
if FS3 is console game I'am gonna get it and graphics aren't proplem because it can't come this generation consoles anymore
but to next
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Originally posted by Holy Imperial Gloriano
Indeed, I'am always played games that has good story-
if FS3 is console game I'am gonna get it and graphics aren't proplem because it can't come this generation consoles anymore
but to next
it's now how a game looks, or what platform its on, it's how it feels, and how well a story grabs your attention.
that's what counts..
if you want a game with a good story, try and find "the nomad soul" it's french, and wierd, but in a good way.. great story too..
another good one is Beyond Good and Evil.
freespace wouldn't have been nowhere as good as it was or will ever be, without the story.
valve did this with Half-life, where you /were/ the main character, this is why gordon freeman never talks, they didn't want to break the feel of the game for you, you /were/ gordon freeman in the game..
this is also why the metal gear solid series have so much of a following, a great story to it.
it's also hard to produce a cohesive storyline, and structure it well, believe me on that one.:nod:
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it's now how a game looks, or what platform its on, it's how it feels, and how well a story grabs your attention.
True, I was going point it:)
it's also hard to produce a cohesive storyline, and structure it well, believe me on that one.
Very true
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Originally posted by Turnsky
this is also why the metal gear solid series have so much of a following, a great story to it.
That and you needed a PHD to understand all of it... :rolleyes:
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Originally posted by ubermetroid
That and you needed a PHD to understand all of it... :rolleyes:
Well MGS story is not that hard follow, I think it's great story
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yeah it's too bad there was no game to go along with that story.
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FS3 on a console would be a lightweight, sucky shadow of its former self.
/give me over a dozen keys just for targeting or give me death!
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Originally posted by WildWolf
yeah it's too bad there was no game to go along with that story.
Indeed, it's sad that konami did but too many cutcenes there
it was like watching interactive movie
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Originally posted by ZylonBane
FS3 on a console would be a lightweight, sucky shadow of its former self.
/give me over a dozen keys just for targeting or give me death!
I'd like to point out that some consoles (XBox and PS2 (and 3?) being my examples) you can connect a keyboard to extend the functionality of the system. I mean, the PS2 has a pair of USB ports, so you can slap any USB-capable keyboard on, and all it'd take would be some appropriate drivers to enable a joystick to work with it, I think.
Consoles are becoming a fair bit more flexible than you give them credit for. Still no replacement for a trusty PC, however. :D
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Originally posted by WildWolf
yeah it's too bad there was no game to go along with that story.
dude, you don't play MGS2, you watch MGS2:p
but yeah, only flaw in a teriffic game, was that there wasn't much of it.
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Theres probably about 3 movies in that game.
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Originally posted by JC Denton
Consoles are becoming a fair bit more flexible than you give them credit for. Still no replacement for a trusty PC, however. :D
The ability to hook keyboards to game systems has existed for decades. People don't like it. Nobody wants to play an action game on a console balancing a keyboard on their lap.
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Originally posted by Turnsky
dude, you don't play MGS2, you watch MGS2:p
but yeah, only flaw in a teriffic game, was that there wasn't much of it.
Good point. Hopefully remedied in MGS3.
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Not to mention that even though you can hook up a keyboard how many games bother to support it?
Besides you'll also need a joystick since game controllers tend to be two handed affairs.
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Originally posted by Dark_4ce
Good point. Hopefully remedied in MGS3.
hopefully they'll balance it out, i don't mind cutscenes, but i do like gameplay as well.
Game controllers have their place, so do Keyboards and mice..
and this..
(http://www.taitlifto.net/WishList/Steel%20Battalion%20Controller.jpg)
is just freaking collossal.
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To be honest i wouldn't buy FS3 if it was for a console. The controls would be annoying and i'd bet anything you'd need to use the analog sticks to move and i despise analog sticks. I suppose i'd just wait for a PC release and if one didn't come i wouldn't buy the game. Using a keyboard with my console doesn't appeal to me and since i pretty much hate console controllers there wouldn't be much point in me buying it. I just have to hope FS3 is for the PC.
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:rolleyes: What are y'all doing difficult 'bout, who cares if it is coming out on console or on PC's? you are either a console fan and love the console version of a game ignoring the pc version, or you're a pc fan simply ignoring the console version :D these days it is not rare to see games come out on both pc and console...that is ofcourse if'nwhenever there is a ...III ...:D
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Turnsky: What the hell is that???
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Oh... "That thing"... The game cool. But only because the controllers were cool. Kinda made you feel like your driving that huge mech. but I only tried it at the store that had a huge plasma screen on which I played it. Twas fun.
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Originally posted by pyro-manic
Turnsky: What the hell is that???
Steel Batallion. It's a shame the game isn't all that great. But oh well, I kept the original box in mint condition, I'm gonna make some money of that baby in a few years.
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has anyone ever thought to email X-Play to see if they'd run a feature on FS2?
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Requiring a console game to use a special peripheral is the kiss of death unless said peripheral comes free with the game.
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Um why use a console when a PC has more options? Im bored of a game, i can mod it with a PC. With a console, im screwed with what the developers gave me.
Only now is console doing content downloading. Ive been doing that for years already! Console's are great dont get me wrong, but a PC beats it hands down every time.
As for FS3 on Console, thats just insanity. FS2 had more controls then you knew what to do with, i doubt FS will port to console and if they do that means they are going to hack it down to nothing!
Im for FS3 no matter where its made, but prefferably on PC.
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Originally posted by heretic
has anyone ever thought to email X-Play to see if they'd run a feature on FS2?
Actually, they did review FS2 a few years ago (back when ZDTV ran everything) and they absolutely LOVED it.
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Okay, first I was going to post about Steel Battalion, 'til I realized aldo was referring to that game; it's not, I just saw a Steel Battalion extra-special rig for that controller in a game catalog.
But then I noticed people dissing MGS...:p
I'm really hoping they meant MGS2; MGS's cuscenes can be skipped without too much major-plot loss if you're selective about it.
MGS2 wasn't that bad, up until Emma dies. At that point it just got ludicrous...cutscene after cutscene, each with a plot twist of its own. And I didn't save too often when I played it, something like 6 times, so I missed all of Jack and Rose's relationship problems, meaning I missed a major portion of the cutscene. :p
So MGS did not have too many cutscenes. And MGS2 was actually pretty good, except for Raiden and the whole dozen plot twists at the end.
"Raiden, your mission is to infiltrate Big Shell and rescue the President."
"The President!?"
"Yes, he's been captured by a group of terrorists."
"Captured!?"
"While touring the Big Shell, a Terrorist group apparently took control of the station, taking him and several other personnel hostage."
"Hostages!?"
...
:p
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"We're going to expand your vocabulary too."
"Expand?!"
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"We're going to give you a haircut, so you don't looks so much like a girlie-man"
"haircut?!"
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Originally posted by Sandwich
I wrote Dave Baranec an email about the whole DS/FS3 mess a week ago or so, and the following is the reply. Please note that this is NOT nessecarily the official Volition stance.
So, without further ado:
[q]Removed pending serious rewording. ;)
[/q]
can someone tell me what was there before that red thing?
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Email from DaveB
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The summary is now up, for your folks who are still curious. :)
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Hmmm, maybe a thread renaming is in order. :)
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Originally posted by Lonestar
Um why use a console when a PC has more options? Im bored of a game, i can mod it with a PC. With a console, im screwed with what the developers gave me.
Only now is console doing content downloading. Ive been doing that for years already! Console's are great dont get me wrong, but a PC beats it hands down every time.
As for FS3 on Console, thats just insanity. FS2 had more controls then you knew what to do with, i doubt FS will port to console and if they do that means they are going to hack it down to nothing!
Im for FS3 no matter where its made, but prefferably on PC.
Because you can take a Pc down to the living room and plug it into the 28-inch widescreen telly with a minimum of fuss? :p
I think FS would work perfectly on console... it's basically an arcade shooter anyways, you could easily play it with a minimum of controls
Offhand - a PS2 mapping could be;
Movement - left analog
Afterburner - right analog up/down
View - D-pad
Fire guns - x
Fire missiles - square
Afterburner - circle
Call support - triangle
Auto target hostiles
L2 to target escort ships
R1 & R2 control speed
(excluding L3 and R3 buttons at the mo)
The rest - comms and more advanced autospeed / targeting could be confined to ingame pause menus, or in the former case to using voice comms (ala SOCOM or whatever the hell it was)
The beauty of FS2 was / is its accessibility - it's not a complex game to control, you can play with about 4 or 5 buttons (2 triggers, afterburner, weapon select - when autotarget and auto-match are on).
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i don't use automatching. never did like it. but yes PC is the best choice for fs3 unless you plan to ship a joystick out with the console version
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PS2 = No modding = 1 time play
You'd play it once, maybe twice and then put on the shelf for the next 6 months beore you decide to pick it up again. Modding is a crusial part of Freespace.
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I agree. The community would be much smaler without FRED(2).
Freespace was designed to be modded.
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that's true aldo, they could make it work, but what about all the HUNDREDS of advanced functions...how about transferring shields? targeting nearest attacking turret, etc. LOL
;)
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I have no idea how a FS3 game should be made, or marketed, but as I see it, to generate interest in the game, there is need for a serious re-release of current matirial
1) Either a internet re-release like GC and tribes, including FS1, silent threat, templers and FS2, maybe with some of the 'unofficial' expansions like derelict and others.
2) A show off of a much bug-fixed SCP, with some of the work for it.
I hope i'm making sense, and not just reposting earlier stuff while adding the 2nd FS2 campaign into the list.
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Originally posted by Stealth
that's true aldo, they could make it work, but what about all the HUNDREDS of advanced functions...how about transferring shields? targeting nearest attacking turret, etc. LOL
;)
Overcomplicated. Want a fast arcade shooter, not a fight sim. :p